Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
Ghost Like wrote: ↑Sat 05 Jun 2021 10:53pm
OK SaintKid, put a price on his head.
I don't think we will get a a worthwhile trade for him but isn't he a free agent at the end of 2021?
If he takes a higher offer elsewhere, well good on him and why not look after himself (others have done so in the past and put themselves before the club) but he's been fortunate to command the dollars he's received to date, when you lay out his on-field playing output in one hand and his remuneration in the other. If St.Kilda were to give him another lucrative contract to keep him, they would be silly in my opinion.
OK SK let's go with your belief. He's not worth anything. Is he worth more than our 23rd player? He's got the dollars because no one else is worth more. What does that say about our list?
I didn't say he's not worth anything Ghost Like.
True, at the time, he got those dollars because of the way the salary cap needs to be spent and his standing on the basis of our list. However, now that he's up for a new contract, I wouldn't be paying his current salary again, or more (should be expect a higher $$ contract). On reflection, looking at our highest paid players, Steele now aside as he's clearly proved his worth, it does say a lot about how average our list really is. We are quite devoid of genuine A graders.
Very true SK but I do not get the logic of letting one of our B+ players go for bugger all in the hope we might find a better player. All the time cuddling our crap like fool's gold. Surely we keep players like Billings unless we have a perverse pleasure in watching players who turn the ball over, believing that will win us our 2nd flag.
I think we are on the same wavelength here Ghost Like. I certainly would not trade him for 'bugger all' but if it is one of value and in the club's best interests, then I would trade him.
Of course, if as a free agent at the end of the year, he choses to leave for another big $$ contract elsewhere, he has my blessings.
saintkid wrote: ↑Sun 06 Jun 2021 11:16am
I think we are on the same wavelength here Ghost Like. I certainly would not trade him for 'bugger all' but if it is one of value and in the club's best interests, then I would trade him.
Of course, if as a free agent at the end of the year, he choses to leave for another big $$ contract elsewhere, he has my blessings.
Totally agree on your last paragraph. Although I don't think JB would leave purely for dollars.
I'd be interested to know what you think he's worth or what trade you'd take. This is the crunch when it comes to people who don't rate him but believe he's worth something.
saintkid wrote: ↑Sun 06 Jun 2021 11:16am
I think we are on the same wavelength here Ghost Like. I certainly would not trade him for 'bugger all' but if it is one of value and in the club's best interests, then I would trade him.
Of course, if as a free agent at the end of the year, he choses to leave for another big $$ contract elsewhere, he has my blessings.
Totally agree on your last paragraph. Although I don't think JB would leave purely for dollars.
I'd be interested to know what you think he's worth or what trade you'd take. This is the crunch when it comes to people who don't rate him but believe he's worth something.
I would be happy with a first round draft pick for him. As for his salary, well I don't agree with the cap principles of the modern game but he is not worth the current $800k per year they've talked about in the media. In my honest opinion, if I have to give a figure as you've asked me, he's a 500K-550K player tops.
saintkid wrote: ↑Sun 06 Jun 2021 11:16am
I think we are on the same wavelength here Ghost Like. I certainly would not trade him for 'bugger all' but if it is one of value and in the club's best interests, then I would trade him.
Of course, if as a free agent at the end of the year, he choses to leave for another big $$ contract elsewhere, he has my blessings.
Totally agree on your last paragraph. Although I don't think JB would leave purely for dollars.
I'd be interested to know what you think he's worth or what trade you'd take. This is the crunch when it comes to people who don't rate him but believe he's worth something.
I would be happy with a first round draft pick for him. As for his salary, well I don't agree with the cap principles of the modern game but he is not worth the current $800k per year they've talked about in the media. In my honest opinion, if I have to give a figure as you've asked me, he's a 500K-550K player tops.
Whilst I agree that a first round pick is his market value... there’s no guarantee that a 1st round pick even remotely makes it... hence I have a real issue trading a player that is good enough to be best in ground at time (or close to it) for a pick which is just speculation essentially.
Ultimately this strategy just feels like a gamble that will work against you more often than going in your favour.
The whole point of drafting is to get players onto your list that are top 22 players... how does it make sense to trade a top 22 player for a pick that may , if you’re lucky... become a top 22 player.
Banger9798 wrote: ↑Sat 05 Jun 2021 7:35pm
Zac Jones is a huge loss, doesn't get enough praise on here for some reason.
With Gresham is an inside/ outside player.
Otherwise we have either very inside or very outside.
To get back to the OP, if Billings is genuinely carrying an injury...then rest him, Bytel, D Mac or Long come back in, we are out of finals contention barring a miracle.
Good post. He was poor today so if he is playing injured then what's the point?
This season for me has been a confirmation of what I always said. We failed to pick the right players with our early draft choices and we let go of a number of good players that have been doing really well at their new clubs. 2021 has become a weekly reminder of the stuff ups by the people our club employ. I will single out Petracca for now as he was always going to set the world on fire and I never bagged him unlike others here. He is as strong physically as he is talented in skill. Exactly what we wanted and needed. He is no Dusty but potentially capable of being the second best midfielder in the competition and he should have been in red, white and black. That one will haunt us forever and especially if he helps deliver the Demons their next premiership since 1964. In round 2 again Melbourne supporters at the ground were thanking us for giving them a superstar...hard to hear and it's been a regular occurrence this season.
As for Billings, even fit he is nothing to crow about as a player, both in leadership and consistent, game changing impact. His best and fairest finishes and Brownlow votes are a testament to that and if anyone wants to criticize my opinion of him in his eighth season, just listen to what Riewoldt has said about Billings as a player and his career to date.
Can you send a link to Roo's criticism please?
I kind of expected you to jump on SK, a bit restrained but if you're happy with everyone else on the list, especially their 2021 efforts, let rip.
Hi there Ghost Like, I've been quite measured about my thoughts on Billings this year and that's because the problem areas in our club go way deeper than just commenting on a few of our so called leaders or senior players. So thank you for expecting me to jump on here regarding JB.
Riewoldt last year on Fox Footy and I'm pretty sure it was 'On the Couch' spoke about Billings being possible trade bait as he hasn't taken his game at the next level after a number of years at the club. Search through the shows and you will watch/hear for yourself.
As I said before, there are posters here that I like reading their thoughts but some go awfully quiet and take a back seat when it comes to Billings' bad games. He should be a leader on the ground and a playmaker inspiring his younger teammates. However, he often does not stand up when needed. I will reiterate...look at his best and fairest finishes and Brownlow votes in his career to date. If the club can get value for him at year's end, I also believe he should be traded. Our list is not going anywhere fast. Watching Melbourne on Friday night was another reminder of our club's errors and list mismanagement.
Funny thing. I have watched all the on the couch shows even put up with that Hillbilly Brown's inane comments but For the life of me, cannot remember Roo ever saying that Billings should be put up as trade bait. He just ain't that stupid.
saintkid wrote: ↑Sun 06 Jun 2021 11:16am
I think we are on the same wavelength here Ghost Like. I certainly would not trade him for 'bugger all' but if it is one of value and in the club's best interests, then I would trade him.
Of course, if as a free agent at the end of the year, he choses to leave for another big $$ contract elsewhere, he has my blessings.
Totally agree on your last paragraph. Although I don't think JB would leave purely for dollars.
I'd be interested to know what you think he's worth or what trade you'd take. This is the crunch when it comes to people who don't rate him but believe he's worth something.
I would be happy with a first round draft pick for him. As for his salary, well I don't agree with the cap principles of the modern game but he is not worth the current $800k per year they've talked about in the media. In my honest opinion, if I have to give a figure as you've asked me, he's a 500K-550K player tops.
Whilst I agree that a first round pick is his market value... there’s no guarantee that a 1st round pick even remotely makes it... hence I have a real issue trading a player that is good enough to be best in ground at time (or close to it) for a pick which is just speculation essentially.
Ultimately this strategy just feels like a gamble that will work against you more often than going in your favour.
The whole point of drafting is to get players onto your list that are top 22 players... how does it make sense to trade a top 22 player for a pick that may , if you’re lucky... become a top 22 player.
Of course, the aim of the game is to get players on your list that are top 22 players but let's clarify further....top 22 that are good enough to actually genuinely challenge for the club's next premiership. Our list is unfortunately rather average, has not looked likely since our GF loss in 2010 and we need to unearth new young talent. There's no guarantees certainly but there is no other path to go forward.
Banger9798 wrote: ↑Sat 05 Jun 2021 7:35pm
Zac Jones is a huge loss, doesn't get enough praise on here for some reason.
With Gresham is an inside/ outside player.
Otherwise we have either very inside or very outside.
To get back to the OP, if Billings is genuinely carrying an injury...then rest him, Bytel, D Mac or Long come back in, we are out of finals contention barring a miracle.
Good post. He was poor today so if he is playing injured then what's the point?
This season for me has been a confirmation of what I always said. We failed to pick the right players with our early draft choices and we let go of a number of good players that have been doing really well at their new clubs. 2021 has become a weekly reminder of the stuff ups by the people our club employ. I will single out Petracca for now as he was always going to set the world on fire and I never bagged him unlike others here. He is as strong physically as he is talented in skill. Exactly what we wanted and needed. He is no Dusty but potentially capable of being the second best midfielder in the competition and he should have been in red, white and black. That one will haunt us forever and especially if he helps deliver the Demons their next premiership since 1964. In round 2 again Melbourne supporters at the ground were thanking us for giving them a superstar...hard to hear and it's been a regular occurrence this season.
As for Billings, even fit he is nothing to crow about as a player, both in leadership and consistent, game changing impact. His best and fairest finishes and Brownlow votes are a testament to that and if anyone wants to criticize my opinion of him in his eighth season, just listen to what Riewoldt has said about Billings as a player and his career to date.
Can you send a link to Roo's criticism please?
I kind of expected you to jump on SK, a bit restrained but if you're happy with everyone else on the list, especially their 2021 efforts, let rip.
Hi there Ghost Like, I've been quite measured about my thoughts on Billings this year and that's because the problem areas in our club go way deeper than just commenting on a few of our so called leaders or senior players. So thank you for expecting me to jump on here regarding JB.
Riewoldt last year on Fox Footy and I'm pretty sure it was 'On the Couch' spoke about Billings being possible trade bait as he hasn't taken his game at the next level after a number of years at the club. Search through the shows and you will watch/hear for yourself.
As I said before, there are posters here that I like reading their thoughts but some go awfully quiet and take a back seat when it comes to Billings' bad games. He should be a leader on the ground and a playmaker inspiring his younger teammates. However, he often does not stand up when needed. I will reiterate...look at his best and fairest finishes and Brownlow votes in his career to date. If the club can get value for him at year's end, I also believe he should be traded. Our list is not going anywhere fast. Watching Melbourne on Friday night was another reminder of our club's errors and list mismanagement.
Funny thing. I have watched all the on the couch shows even put up with that Hillbilly Brown's inane comments but For the life of me, cannot remember Roo ever saying that Billings should be put up as trade bait. He just ain't that stupid.
Well Riewoldt sure did say it on Fox Footy and he said similar on SEN. Here's the link:
Billings isn't a player that can take a game on and help arrest a slide.
When we're struggling, he doesn't do a Dangerfield or a Dusty, he isn't a linebreaker, kicking clutch goals.
He did get 4 goals once vs Doggies in 2015 or so, when we came back from the depths.
But that's once in 8 yrs.
When we struggle to hold fast in a game, he cannot turn the tide.
Therefore, offer him 500k, if he wants more, tell him to go to RSEA front desk and hand in his locker key and ID card on the way out.
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤ and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
WellardSaint wrote: ↑Mon 07 Jun 2021 1:04am
Billings isn't a player that can take a game on and help arrest a slide.
When we're struggling, he doesn't do a Dangerfield or a Dusty, he isn't a linebreaker, kicking clutch goals.
He did get 4 goals once vs Doggies in 2015 or so, when we came back from the depths.
But that's once in 8 yrs.
When we struggle to hold fast in a game, he cannot turn the tide.
Therefore, offer him 500k, if he wants more, tell him to go to RSEA front desk and hand in his locker key and ID card on the way out.
That would be an incredible piece of recruiting to select a Dangerfield or Martin with whatever compensation pick we'd get. Sadly our track record suggests we'd nail an Eli Templeton before one of those two.
Billings is far and away our best kick. In fact he's one of the best kicks in the AFL. No idea why a team screaming for skills would get rid if there best kick.
CURLY wrote: ↑Mon 07 Jun 2021 9:33am
Billings is far and away our best kick. In fact he's one of the best kicks in the AFL. No idea why a team screaming for skills would get rid if there best kick.
Billings is a keeper for mine too.
He’s not good enough to command a marque player unless suspicious circumstances rear their head - a manager know they can push St Kilda around courtesy of our record ...Hannebury , ..and hence a ‘too good to be true gift’ comes walking through the door.
He would draw a player better than Jones but no more than a Crouch.
Going for a youthful draft pick is such a raffle, I’d say persist with Billings unless our physics know a little dirty secret. I know he hasn’t been spectacular, but seeing him mark those awkward balls on the boundary at half-back and charging on earlier this year, I think he’s too good.
I thought he was never an elite set shot though his field passing is sweet.
Banger9798 wrote: ↑Sat 05 Jun 2021 7:35pm
Zac Jones is a huge loss, doesn't get enough praise on here for some reason.
With Gresham is an inside/ outside player.
Otherwise we have either very inside or very outside.
To get back to the OP, if Billings is genuinely carrying an injury...then rest him, Bytel, D Mac or Long come back in, we are out of finals contention barring a miracle.
Good post. He was poor today so if he is playing injured then what's the point?
This season for me has been a confirmation of what I always said. We failed to pick the right players with our early draft choices and we let go of a number of good players that have been doing really well at their new clubs. 2021 has become a weekly reminder of the stuff ups by the people our club employ. I will single out Petracca for now as he was always going to set the world on fire and I never bagged him unlike others here. He is as strong physically as he is talented in skill. Exactly what we wanted and needed. He is no Dusty but potentially capable of being the second best midfielder in the competition and he should have been in red, white and black. That one will haunt us forever and especially if he helps deliver the Demons their next premiership since 1964. In round 2 again Melbourne supporters at the ground were thanking us for giving them a superstar...hard to hear and it's been a regular occurrence this season.
As for Billings, even fit he is nothing to crow about as a player, both in leadership and consistent, game changing impact. His best and fairest finishes and Brownlow votes are a testament to that and if anyone wants to criticize my opinion of him in his eighth season, just listen to what Riewoldt has said about Billings as a player and his career to date.
Can you send a link to Roo's criticism please?
I kind of expected you to jump on SK, a bit restrained but if you're happy with everyone else on the list, especially their 2021 efforts, let rip.
Hi there Ghost Like, I've been quite measured about my thoughts on Billings this year and that's because the problem areas in our club go way deeper than just commenting on a few of our so called leaders or senior players. So thank you for expecting me to jump on here regarding JB.
Riewoldt last year on Fox Footy and I'm pretty sure it was 'On the Couch' spoke about Billings being possible trade bait as he hasn't taken his game at the next level after a number of years at the club. Search through the shows and you will watch/hear for yourself.
As I said before, there are posters here that I like reading their thoughts but some go awfully quiet and take a back seat when it comes to Billings' bad games. He should be a leader on the ground and a playmaker inspiring his younger teammates. However, he often does not stand up when needed. I will reiterate...look at his best and fairest finishes and Brownlow votes in his career to date. If the club can get value for him at year's end, I also believe he should be traded. Our list is not going anywhere fast. Watching Melbourne on Friday night was another reminder of our club's errors and list mismanagement.
Funny thing. I have watched all the on the couch shows even put up with that Hillbilly Brown's inane comments but For the life of me, cannot remember Roo ever saying that Billings should be put up as trade bait. He just ain't that stupid.
Well Riewoldt sure did say it on Fox Footy and he said similar on SEN. Here's the link:
B.M wrote: ↑Mon 07 Jun 2021 12:05am
No, but who says he wants to leave?
And why does he have currency, and why would a top club swoop on him in a heartbeat?
Perhaps because he goes alright??!!
We are we looking to offload players to go and play in premierships elsewhere
Hall, McEvoy, Bruce
Stewart, Trott, Greene, Perovic, Plugger.....
The Plugger one was the best of that lot.
Yep, was a real shocker, got a role of dunny paper and a used franga for him and creeps like Mike Sheahan said it was a win win situation even years later. f***wit.
that’s worked for us in the past!!!!
and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
