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Scollop wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 7:15pm
Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.
I heard that and what they criticised wasn’t Kings workrate.....they did ask “what’s the actual forward structure St Kilda trying to put in place here??”
Uhhhmmm... you sound so confident but you’re wrong. Listen to the commentary in that second quarter.
Dal Santo, Dunstall and Garry all mentioned work rate.
Nah I’m pretty confident that wasn’t the main point they were making and I provided examples to back that up but anyhow...
It’s pretty obvious King is zero flat on confidence he looked to me like a player who didn’t want the ball yesterday which makes me wonder what are we doing to help him??? Has anyone at the club gone out to get him done additional support with his kicking ?? Or is it left to Roughead who recently said on AFL 360 “what are you gonna do???” But the greatest indicator we have a plan...
Scollop wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 7:15pm
Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.
I heard that and what they criticised wasn’t Kings workrate.....they did ask “what’s the actual forward structure St Kilda trying to put in place here??”
Uhhhmmm... you sound so confident but you’re wrong. Listen to the commentary in that second quarter.
Dal Santo, Dunstall and Garry all mentioned work rate.
Nah I’m pretty confident that wasn’t the main point they were making and I provided examples to back that up but anyhow...
It’s pretty obvious King is zero flat on confidence he looked to me like a player who didn’t want the ball yesterday which makes me wonder what are we doing to help him??? Has anyone at the club gone out to get him done additional support with his kicking ?? Or is it left to Roughead who recently said on AFL 360 “what are you gonna do???” But the greatest indicator we have a plan...
Pretty confident doesn’t stand up. Ask saynta ( he’ll tell ya that won’t stand up in court )
Our midfield for example..how many of them would be selected in top sides and who would they be.
This is where the problem lies. Nice guys but average players, do not make things happen. Too many players we do not get excited by when they have ball in hand
Scollop wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 7:15pm
Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.
I heard that and what they criticised wasn’t Kings workrate.....they did ask “what’s the actual forward structure St Kilda trying to put in place here??”
Uhhhmmm... you sound so confident but you’re wrong. Listen to the commentary in that second quarter.
Dal Santo, Dunstall and Garry all mentioned work rate.
Nah I’m pretty confident that wasn’t the main point they were making and I provided examples to back that up but anyhow...
It’s pretty obvious King is zero flat on confidence he looked to me like a player who didn’t want the ball yesterday which makes me wonder what are we doing to help him??? Has anyone at the club gone out to get him done additional support with his kicking ?? Or is it left to Roughead who recently said on AFL 360 “what are you gonna do???” But the greatest indicator we have a plan...
Pretty confident doesn’t stand up. Ask saynta ( he’ll tell ya that won’t stand up in court )
I’m sure he will but the “vibe” of what I heard felt right...
He hasn’t gone from great to crap, his team has gone from great to crap!!!
One thing I will say
Hamill, a career forward, coaching defenders
Skrobalak, a lower league ruckman coaching the forwards
Lade, a ruckman coaching Mids
I’d prefer specialist coaching coaching in their are of expertise
Scollop wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 7:15pm
Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.
I heard that and what they criticised wasn’t Kings workrate.....they did ask “what’s the actual forward structure St Kilda trying to put in place here??”
Uhhhmmm... you sound so confident but you’re wrong. Listen to the commentary in that second quarter.
Dal Santo, Dunstall and Garry all mentioned work rate.
Nah I’m pretty confident that wasn’t the main point they were making and I provided examples to back that up but anyhow...
It’s pretty obvious King is zero flat on confidence he looked to me like a player who didn’t want the ball yesterday which makes me wonder what are we doing to help him??? Has anyone at the club gone out to get him done additional support with his kicking ?? Or is it left to Roughead who recently said on AFL 360 “what are you gonna do???” But the greatest indicator we have a plan...
Pretty confident doesn’t stand up. Ask saynta ( he’ll tell ya that won’t stand up in court )
B.M wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 9:41pm
No, won’t make a difference with this list.
At best 5-8
At worse 15-18
As we see with Clarkson, coaching is overrated
He hasn’t gone from great to crap, his team has gone from great to crap!!!
One thing I will say
Hamill, a career forward, coaching defenders
Skrobalak, a lower league ruckman coaching the forwards
Lade, a ruckman coaching Mids
I’d prefer specialist coaching coaching in their are of expertise
Not so sure it’s as simple as that ....
I agree coach needs the cattle.....but the cattle need to believe in a game plan and a big part of a coaches roles each week is ensuring the team come to play.....right now feels to me we have zero consequences for poor performance and players know it....a game plan with zero defensive structure and a forward 50 system that looks like it lack any plan/cohesion ....
I’d like to see us invest in some additional footy nous in the box Choco Williams style and agree re assistant coaches.....go out and bring in quality and have them control areas they have expertise in and overhaul player development. We can not have Bytel, Byrnes etc shoeshiner their abilities and fall off the development cliff next year and go backwards as Coffield and Battle have done this year
Clarkson is rebuilding so not a great example.
and ........go backwards as Coffield and Battle have done this year
Who says?
I don't think Battle has gone backwards based on his most recent game.
He was filling in as the 2nd ruck (and did a very good job) and possibly ran out of puff/his running affected his shots at goal a bit. He marked well and he could have easily kicked 2.1 instead of kicking 3 behinds
When King got 1.5 or 1.6 Ratts gave him a coaches vote
He's only 22 yrs of age and just on 50 games for his career. He might end the year with better stats than last year
The interesting question that stems from whether a coach is important or not begs, why do St Kilda continually sack their coaches if they are not important?
Surely Tim Watson should have 20 years under his belt by now?
Our soft cap should have plenty of coin in it as no one is worth paying big dollars.
Of course a coach needs the players. He needs players he can develop to play the style of football he wants. Is the fact that Leon Cameron has had access to the best talent in the draft a slight on him or his players or his medical staff or his list managers? I'd suggest it's a combination that only the very best clubs, premiership worthy clubs get right.
and ........go backwards as Coffield and Battle have done this year
Who says?
I don't think Battle has gone backwards based on his most recent game.
He was filling in as the 2nd ruck (and did a very good job) and possibly ran out of puff/his running affected his shots at goal a bit. He marked well and he could have easily kicked 2.1 instead of kicking 3 behinds
When King got 1.5 or 1.6 Ratts gave him a coaches vote
He's only 22 yrs of age and just on 50 games for his career. He might end the year with better stats than last year
As far as Coff is concerned, I reckon if he stays off the Playstation and gets enough sleep he'll be fine
I don’t think Battle this season has been as good as previous I’d have thought that obvious
His great effort last game , 1 game, hasn’t changed my vie won his season to date yet and it’s not his fault he’s being thrown all over the place......
Scollop wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 7:15pm
Why the f*** have has the club allowed this to happen. Are they that f***** stupid when it was so plain to see that Max needed time in the VFL. People come on here and say ‘lay off the kid’ but then you have to consider the rest pf the team and now we are seeing a game plan devised around NOT kicking it to Max. A game plan devised around Max NOT getting an opportunity to even have a shot at goal. What’s the f***** point of selecting him in the seniors FFS?!
It’s not just the coaching at the moment and not just his development that is to blame. He’s responsible for this because he just hasn’t got the confidence to nail his set shots.
The players have lost trust in his kicking and the coaches were devising a plan to use him as a decoy on the flank or in a forward pocket, with Jack Billings playing as the full forward.
It was Garry Lyon who pointed it out. Garry had some really good comments during the match against the Kangaroos. Lyon is a 5 time All Australian and a very smart footballer who earnt his reputation as a forward. From his observation, King is NOT doing himself any favours and he’s NOT doing the St Kilda team any favours. Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.
The Foxfooty show ‘On The Couch’ is my favourite show of the week. You’ve got Rooy, Jono Brown and the Loinchop who were all power forwards and I’m 100% confident that they’ll have plenty to say about Max. Should be good viewing
BUMP
On the Couch had a segment on Max King. Not a segment that any player would want to be a feature of, but Max is young and as Toss Lyon used to say, your first 4 years are your apprenticeship
It's a pity he'll be getting taught by people who have a poor record of getting their apprentices qualified
oh yeah....the word 'poor workrate' was also shown on the graphic and mentioned several times
Scollop wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 7:15pm
Why the f*** have has the club allowed this to happen. Are they that f***** stupid when it was so plain to see that Max needed time in the VFL. People come on here and say ‘lay off the kid’ but then you have to consider the rest pf the team and now we are seeing a game plan devised around NOT kicking it to Max. A game plan devised around Max NOT getting an opportunity to even have a shot at goal. What’s the f***** point of selecting him in the seniors FFS?!
It’s not just the coaching at the moment and not just his development that is to blame. He’s responsible for this because he just hasn’t got the confidence to nail his set shots.
The players have lost trust in his kicking and the coaches were devising a plan to use him as a decoy on the flank or in a forward pocket, with Jack Billings playing as the full forward.
It was Garry Lyon who pointed it out. Garry had some really good comments during the match against the Kangaroos. Lyon is a 5 time All Australian and a very smart footballer who earnt his reputation as a forward. From his observation, King is NOT doing himself any favours and he’s NOT doing the St Kilda team any favours. Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.
The Foxfooty show ‘On The Couch’ is my favourite show of the week. You’ve got Rooy, Jono Brown and the Loinchop who were all power forwards and I’m 100% confident that they’ll have plenty to say about Max. Should be good viewing
BUMP
On the Couch had a segment on Max King. Not a segment that any player would want to be a feature of, but Max is young and as Toss Lyon used to say, your first 4 years are your apprenticeship
It's a pity he'll be getting taught by people who have a poor record of getting their apprentices qualified
oh yeah....the word 'poor workrate' was also shown on the graphic and mentioned several times
What has surprised me the most is you were listening with the sound up.
It doesn't surprise me that you want to play the man instead of adding to the conversation regarding what Roo, Garry and Brown said
I listen to them because they don't bore me to tears like you do... And they have something interesting to say unlike the fwit mouthpieces like Luke Darcy and Linger and co.
and ........go backwards as Coffield and Battle have done this year
Who says?
I don't think Battle has gone backwards based on his most recent game.
He was filling in as the 2nd ruck (and did a very good job) and possibly ran out of puff/his running affected his shots at goal a bit. He marked well and he could have easily kicked 2.1 instead of kicking 3 behinds
When King got 1.5 or 1.6 Ratts gave him a coaches vote
He's only 22 yrs of age and just on 50 games for his career. He might end the year with better stats than last year
As far as Coff is concerned, I reckon if he stays off the Playstation and gets enough sleep he'll be fine
Spot on re: Battle. Who would've thought a kid who spent his entire junior and adolescence training as a forward would - surprise, surprise - play well as a forward. I know he played very well as a fill on intercepting back covering for Robbo in 2019 but - he has natural, trained and lived experience in forward craft.
I'd love it if we kept playing him as a forward/2nd ruck until Marshall returns. And in the process - never see McKernan in a Saints jumper ever again.
asiu wrote: ↑Tue 01 Jun 2021 12:28pm
watched him (bit of a fave)
at metricon
he was putting in with his hustle n bustle
down back ... even though the pill wasn’t falling his way
i not a fan of ... gonebackwards
more struggling as a gap filler
Clarify.
You watched Battle at Metricon?
'Gonebackwards' is McKernan?
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤ and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
Look at McKernan's and Byrnes's sprayed (Splayed?) shots the other game.
Enlist some certain ex-Pakistani bowlers of ill-repute but incredible talent, and teach Maxy the art of reverse swing with the torp. Put him in the pocket and he'll be curling them in in no time.
Billings, Bunnings and Battle to full-forward on the rotisserie.
Scollop wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 7:15pm
Why the f*** have has the club allowed this to happen. Are they that f***** stupid when it was so plain to see that Max needed time in the VFL. People come on here and say ‘lay off the kid’ but then you have to consider the rest pf the team and now we are seeing a game plan devised around NOT kicking it to Max. A game plan devised around Max NOT getting an opportunity to even have a shot at goal. What’s the f***** point of selecting him in the seniors FFS?!
It’s not just the coaching at the moment and not just his development that is to blame. He’s responsible for this because he just hasn’t got the confidence to nail his set shots.
The players have lost trust in his kicking and the coaches were devising a plan to use him as a decoy on the flank or in a forward pocket, with Jack Billings playing as the full forward.
It was Garry Lyon who pointed it out. Garry had some really good comments during the match against the Kangaroos. Lyon is a 5 time All Australian and a very smart footballer who earnt his reputation as a forward. From his observation, King is NOT doing himself any favours and he’s NOT doing the St Kilda team any favours. Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.
The Foxfooty show ‘On The Couch’ is my favourite show of the week. You’ve got Rooy, Jono Brown and the Loinchop who were all power forwards and I’m 100% confident that they’ll have plenty to say about Max. Should be good viewing
BUMP
On the Couch had a segment on Max King. Not a segment that any player would want to be a feature of, but Max is young and as Toss Lyon used to say, your first 4 years are your apprenticeship
It's a pity he'll be getting taught by people who have a poor record of getting their apprentices qualified
oh yeah....the word 'poor workrate' was also shown on the graphic and mentioned several times
No one suggested poor work rate hasn’t been mentioned
Far more telling is the bulk of the commentary during the game talked about our lack of forward system
Malthouse has also suggested we are not preparing our next group for AFL football
Key point is our coaching and development is sub par right now
No wonder King looks dejected.....he’s utterly confused
I made some comments adding to the theme of the thread...and just as an afterthought I mentioned what the special comments guy said during the match. You said; "what they criticised wasn’t Kings workrate".
On The Couch runs a segment with the graphic "Poor workrate" on Monday night
Scollop wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 7:15pm
Why the f*** have has the club allowed this to happen. Are they that f***** stupid when it was so plain to see that Max needed time in the VFL. People come on here and say ‘lay off the kid’ but then you have to consider the rest pf the team and now we are seeing a game plan devised around NOT kicking it to Max. A game plan devised around Max NOT getting an opportunity to even have a shot at goal. What’s the f***** point of selecting him in the seniors FFS?!
It’s not just the coaching at the moment and not just his development that is to blame. He’s responsible for this because he just hasn’t got the confidence to nail his set shots.
The players have lost trust in his kicking and the coaches were devising a plan to use him as a decoy on the flank or in a forward pocket, with Jack Billings playing as the full forward.
It was Garry Lyon who pointed it out. Garry Loinchop had some really good comments during the match against the Kangaroos. Lyon is a 5 time All Australian and a very smart footballer who earnt his reputation as a forward. From his observation, King is NOT doing himself any favours and he’s NOT doing the St Kilda team any favours. Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.
I heard that and what they criticised wasn’t Kings workrate.....they did ask “what’s the actual forward structure St Kilda trying to put in place here??”
No ability to allow King to go deep , push a Membrey up further and allow Max to lead into space....
It’s not King it’s **** game plan and whichever potatoe is in charge if our forward entries set up and structure MUST be sacked, this has been an issue for a long time. Previously we had “bomb it in” as a game plan
It’s s*** coaching
King looks utterly lost.
If I was his manager I’d be telling him to get to another AFL club cause these cut lunch commandos have no friggin idea
The whole thread including the op is highlighting a problem with the player. We all know he's a baby in AFL experience so in my opinion and in most people's opinion you can't blame a young player who has been identified as a high end talent and is brought in to your club at pick number 4. It has to be the coaching that is the root cause of his issues.
We all agree the coaching has created his problems and the coaching needs to be better if he's going to become the player we all expect him to be
)
and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
