Does Kingy Even Like Playing

[Freebird]

Too easily pushed off/blocked/held

He must continually lead to break up the pack..if he drags opponents with him then that is good for us in creating other options

[Impatient Sainter]

He is not a shadow of what he was last year and long way behind Ben strength wise. I would give him a week off just to rest mentally and bring him back after the bye.

[shanegrambeau]

There maybe two things effecting Max now. 1) his goal kicking is terrible, yes he played really well against Geelong, but if he had kicked 5.1 instead of 1.5 he would have been a match winner. 2) that big new contract may have made him a little complacent in his attitude.
Our game plan too doesn't help him. There was an instance yesterday where Hill got the ball in the middle of the ground and looked like he was wide open to take off towards the goal but looked and had to stop because there was no one ahead of him in the forward 50 to kick to. Max should be told in my opinion not to leave the forward 50. He should be planted there along with Higgins to rove watch Max doesn't mark.
In regards to his mindset and goal kicking, the club should get Roo down there to talk to him, give him a little bit of personal training and how he can improve his goal kicking like Roo did through his career.

I agree, from the outside at least, 10,000 miles away, the contract wouldn't have helped. Especially the lead-up to negotiation, wheeling and dealing behind the scenes. Even if Max is not privy to them, he knows they are 'talking about him' and it eats away.

But one thing I bet he is not...and that is complacent. His circuits will be burning to melting point, I can guarantee it. But then, what do we do? Sports Psychologist 101! What is your answer?

[B.M]

How do you know how hard he hits the gym

Evidence points to the contrary

[Vortex]

All I ask of the club is, don't F*** the kid up.

[The_Dud]

How do you know how hard he hits the gym

Evidence points to the contrary

Where are the coaches / fitness staff?

[sendmehomehappy]

How many coaches does it take to develop young players? The club is full of f&$in coaches and for years they have not been able to develop as well as other clubs.

Time to pi$$ them off and get in some decent personnel.

For that matter, pi$$ them all off and get in an assistant to Ratts who has some game plan/game day nous.

[B.M]

Are we saying Roughead is no good?

He’s the one that works closely with Max

And why does Ratten need an assistant to show him about game plan, tactics and strategy?
Firstly - isn’t Rath there for that
Secondly - isn't Ratts job to devise the GP and strategise?

[sendmehomehappy]

Are we saying Roughead is no good?

He’s the one that works closely with Max

And why does Ratten need an assistant to show him about game plan, tactics and strategy?
Firstly - isn’t Rath there for that
Secondly - isn't Ratts job to devise the GP and strategise?

Yeah, I’ll call it. I reckon Roughie is no good. Max is not developing an AFL body or key forward AFL nous.

It’s clear that Ratts has major tactical limitations on game day and his game plan strategy is almost as bad as Cho’s.

[saynta]

Are we saying Roughead is no good?

He’s the one that works closely with Max

And why does Ratten need an assistant to show him about game plan, tactics and strategy?
Firstly - isn’t Rath there for that
Secondly - isn't Ratts job to devise the GP and strategise?

Yeah, I’ll call it. I reckon Roughie is no good. Max is not developing an AFL body or key forward AFL nous.

It’s clear that Ratts has major tactical limitations on game day and his game plan strategy is almost as bad as Cho’s.

Roughie was a good footballer and IS a good bloke.

From memory he wasn't recruited as an assistant coach and I don't know what his qualifications for that job are.

His role seems to have changed. He's a bit too laid back for my liking.

Guess his position will be reviewed , along with others, come season end.

The president is not going to accept failure, but if money is an issue maybe he could put his hand in his pocket for the mid season draft, which is a chance in a life time to recruit some YOUNG talent.

I know I would if I had his financial resources.

[Teflon]

Ratts is killing him with no game plan. Gets smashed hard dozen times a match with the crap long high entries. Kid needs confidence and more time in the weight room. Every week is the same. Sit under this son.

Spot on - all these muppets putting all on Kings shoulders in season 2 know absolutely noting

As Malthouse said in his article

The worry for the Saints is that young players like Max King, Josh Battle, Hunter Clark, Nick Coffield and Ben Paton deserve far better. They are not receiving the right preparation for league football.

Have said it before we have MASSIVE player development Issues at our club - we will **** Max King right up you watch had he been at a serious AFL club he’d have the support he needs (probably wouldn’t be asked to be the saviour in season 2 also....) but not at Saints. Josh Battle???? V good player ....,gone backwards....why???? We’ve turned him into “Mr Fixit” ......Coffield????? mysteriously gone backwards was top 5 last year??? WTF are we doing in player development and coaching???

Who leads player development at the club??
Have we got A grade assistant and forward coaches in the place or still got Alan Richardson B team cause Ratts didn’t want to be a nasty guy and sack a few. ?

Ratts has next season to turn it around or goes - he has the keys to the kingdom...,,he decides who he puts around him and if he can’t get that then his judgment is poor and not what we need. We can’t take 7 years to find this out

Club could do worse than ask Malthouse to lead an independent football review...,

But no....let’s just keep saying “it’s all because Max King hasn’t been in the gym....”
Lazy, s*** brain thinking

[Teflon]

How many coaches does it take to develop young players? The club is full of f&$in coaches and for years they have not been able to develop as well as other clubs.

Time to pi$$ them off and get in some decent personnel.

For that matter, pi$$ them all off and get in an assistant to Ratts who has some game plan/game day nous.

Hear hear
I definitely wouldn’t sack Ratten but I would be saying to him....next year you will be having assistant coach changes AND we are bringing in a senior experienced coachibg figure to cone in and support football operations.....they won’t ever be coach but you’d better get a relationship going with them and it might pay Brett..,,to listen if they have defensive game plan input???
Turn it around and you’re looking good beyond..,,stuff it up we pat you on the back and say “nice bloke who did his best”

[sendmehomehappy]

Decent development coaches would have ensured Max develops a full forward ready body before he is asked to play week in week out against monster full backs with the ball kicked on his head continuously. No other club would expect this of a 202cm super thin guy, in his second year back from an ACL. He might get a taste of AFL then go back to the magpies until he consistently kills it their. Obviously the AFL’s Wuhan Lab Virus response has not helped Max or the club here. He needs time up the ground to build confidence without goal kicking pressure.

[sendmehomehappy]

Haha, magpies....hope not...damn phone...magoos

[Scollop]

Why the f*** have has the club allowed this to happen. Are they that f***** stupid when it was so plain to see that Max needed time in the VFL. People come on here and say ‘lay off the kid’ but then you have to consider the rest pf the team and now we are seeing a game plan devised around NOT kicking it to Max. A game plan devised around Max NOT getting an opportunity to even have a shot at goal. What’s the f***** point of selecting him in the seniors FFS?!

It’s not just the coaching at the moment and not just his development that is to blame. He’s responsible for this because he just hasn’t got the confidence to nail his set shots.

The players have lost trust in his kicking and the coaches were devising a plan to use him as a decoy on the flank or in a forward pocket, with Jack Billings playing as the full forward.

It was Garry Lyon who pointed it out. Garry had some really good comments during the match against the Kangaroos. Lyon is a 5 time All Australian and a very smart footballer who earnt his reputation as a forward. From his observation, King is NOT doing himself any favours and he’s NOT doing the St Kilda team any favours. Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.

The Foxfooty show ‘On The Couch’ is my favourite show of the week. You’ve got Rooy, Jono Brown and the Loinchop who were all power forwards and I’m 100% confident that they’ll have plenty to say about Max. Should be good viewing

[Teflon]

Why the f*** have has the club allowed this to happen. Are they that f***** stupid when it was so plain to see that Max needed time in the VFL. People come on here and say ‘lay off the kid’ but then you have to consider the rest pf the team and now we are seeing a game plan devised around NOT kicking it to Max. A game plan devised around Max NOT getting an opportunity to even have a shot at goal. What’s the f***** point of selecting him in the seniors FFS?!

It’s not just the coaching at the moment and not just his development that is to blame. He’s responsible for this because he just hasn’t got the confidence to nail his set shots.

The players have lost trust in his kicking and the coaches were devising a plan to use him as a decoy on the flank or in a forward pocket, with Jack Billings playing as the full forward.

It was Garry Lyon who pointed it out. Garry Loinchop had some really good comments during the match against the Kangaroos. Lyon is a 5 time All Australian and a very smart footballer who earnt his reputation as a forward. From his observation, King is NOT doing himself any favours and he’s NOT doing the St Kilda team any favours. Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.

I heard that and what they criticised wasn’t Kings workrate.....they did ask “what’s the actual forward structure St Kilda trying to put in place here??”
No ability to allow King to go deep , push a Membrey up further and allow Max to lead into space....
It’s not King it’s **** game plan and whichever potatoe is in charge if our forward entries set up and structure MUST be sacked, this has been an issue for a long time. Previously we had “bomb it in” as a game plan
It’s s*** coaching
King looks utterly lost.
If I was his manager I’d be telling him to get to another AFL club cause these cut lunch commandos have no friggin idea

[B.M]

So if Ratts needs baby sitting... doesn’t that mean he’s not up to it??

It’s funny, last year he was awesome??? Our recruiting was brilliant??? No problems with the assistants then???

10 games later, we have changed our tune

In my mind
He was not a great coach last year
He’s not shocking this year
Fact is, he is exactly the same - circumstances are very different

[Teflon]

So if Ratts needs baby sitting... doesn’t that mean he’s not up to it??

It’s funny, last year he was awesome??? Our recruiting was brilliant??? No problems with the assistants then???

10 games later, we have changed our tune

In my mind
He was not a great coach last year
He’s not shocking this year
Fact is, he is exactly the same - circumstances are very different

Lol geez all good again after the fact
Base on the above fence sitting your backside must be sore..
So sack him now??? Don’t sack him now???
Get an opinion and do tell us all the way FORWARD ????
If circumstances are different.....doesn’t that mean you need to change with that shift and do something different???
Did Melbourne do exactly that with Goodwin??????
Do tell ...

[Scollop]

Why the f*** have has the club allowed this to happen. Are they that f***** stupid when it was so plain to see that Max needed time in the VFL. People come on here and say ‘lay off the kid’ but then you have to consider the rest pf the team and now we are seeing a game plan devised around NOT kicking it to Max. A game plan devised around Max NOT getting an opportunity to even have a shot at goal. What’s the f***** point of selecting him in the seniors FFS?!

It’s not just the coaching at the moment and not just his development that is to blame. He’s responsible for this because he just hasn’t got the confidence to nail his set shots.

The players have lost trust in his kicking and the coaches were devising a plan to use him as a decoy on the flank or in a forward pocket, with Jack Billings playing as the full forward.

It was Garry Lyon who pointed it out. Garry Loinchop had some really good comments during the match against the Kangaroos. Lyon is a 5 time All Australian and a very smart footballer who earnt his reputation as a forward. From his observation, King is NOT doing himself any favours and he’s NOT doing the St Kilda team any favours. Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.

I heard that and what they criticised wasn’t Kings workrate.....they did ask “what’s the actual forward structure St Kilda trying to put in place here??”
No ability to allow King to go deep , push a Membrey up further and allow Max to lead into space....
It’s not King it’s **** game plan and whichever potatoe is in charge if our forward entries set up and structure MUST be sacked, this has been an issue for a long time. Previously we had “bomb it in” as a game plan
It’s s*** coaching
King looks utterly lost.
If I was his manager I’d be telling him to get to another AFL club cause these cut lunch commandos have no friggin idea

I’m glad you mentioned his manager. Maybe Max doesn’t want to miss out on his match payments. Maybe they didn’t want to upset his manager by dropping him.

The comments by Garry and Jason were early on in the second quarter. Both Garry and Jason specifically said he doesn’t work hard enough. Yes, they both were bemused at the game plan and said he’s not going to learn anything the way that St Kilda are using him but they also had plenty to say about what they observed with Max’s positioning and workrate.

I agree that the coaching is the issue, but it’s not just about Max. There is a TEAM to consider and if you ask the players, who they’d prefer to kick it to if it was between Max or JB or Max or Snags I think I know what the answer would be.

Nick Dal Santo also mentioned that a forward should be on the move constantly and that is what catches the eye of a midfielder. They weren’t kicking it to him because he was stagnant

[B.M]

Teflon

I’m on record as saying a coaches influence is overhyped and overstated!

A poor coach with a quality list will always beat a quality coach with a poor list

Fact is, you can’t turn s*** into strawberry jam.

I don’t like waffle, so Ratts annoys me there. But obviously he has strengths.

Ross Lyon is the best coach I have seen at stk
Direct, straight to the point, brutal at times, understanding of the game.

He had his weaknesses too, player development for instance.

[Teflon]

Why the f*** have has the club allowed this to happen. Are they that f***** stupid when it was so plain to see that Max needed time in the VFL. People come on here and say ‘lay off the kid’ but then you have to consider the rest pf the team and now we are seeing a game plan devised around NOT kicking it to Max. A game plan devised around Max NOT getting an opportunity to even have a shot at goal. What’s the f***** point of selecting him in the seniors FFS?!

It’s not just the coaching at the moment and not just his development that is to blame. He’s responsible for this because he just hasn’t got the confidence to nail his set shots.

The players have lost trust in his kicking and the coaches were devising a plan to use him as a decoy on the flank or in a forward pocket, with Jack Billings playing as the full forward.

It was Garry Lyon who pointed it out. Garry Loinchop had some really good comments during the match against the Kangaroos. Lyon is a 5 time All Australian and a very smart footballer who earnt his reputation as a forward. From his observation, King is NOT doing himself any favours and he’s NOT doing the St Kilda team any favours. Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.

I heard that and what they criticised wasn’t Kings workrate.....they did ask “what’s the actual forward structure St Kilda trying to put in place here??”
No ability to allow King to go deep , push a Membrey up further and allow Max to lead into space....
It’s not King it’s **** game plan and whichever potatoe is in charge if our forward entries set up and structure MUST be sacked, this has been an issue for a long time. Previously we had “bomb it in” as a game plan
It’s s*** coaching
King looks utterly lost.
If I was his manager I’d be telling him to get to another AFL club cause these cut lunch commandos have no friggin idea

I’m glad you mentioned his manager. Maybe Max doesn’t want to miss out on his match payments. Maybe they didn’t want to upset his manager by dropping him.

I agree that the coaching is the issue, but it’s not just about Max. There is a TEAM to consider and if you ask the players, who they’d prefer to kick it to if it was between Max or JB or Max or Snags I think I know what the answer would be.

So how do we explain Battle going backwards this year
How do we explain Coffield??
As Roo said “On The Couch” ....King is one of the most professional, drive players who wants to get better....I don’t think he’s looking or worried about match payments...,Gold Coast would guarantee those...
No, the problems at this club are very obvious to me - we are not professional and I agree with Malthouse...we are not preparing our next batch of stars for AFL football and it’s coaching , development, recruiting that needs to be seriously scrutinised

[Teflon]

Teflon

I’m on record as saying a coaches influence is overhyped and overstated!

A poor coach with a quality list will always beat a quality coach with a poor list

Fact is, you can’t turn s*** into strawberry jam.

I don’t like waffle, so Ratts annoys me there. But obviously he has strengths.

Ross Lyon is the best coach I have seen at stk
Direct, straight to the point, brutal at times, understanding of the game.

He had his weaknesses too, player development for instance.

That’s all great - what do we do next????? Let’s go on record with your opinion on that.

[Ghost Like]

Why the f*** have has the club allowed this to happen. Are they that f***** stupid when it was so plain to see that Max needed time in the VFL. People come on here and say ‘lay off the kid’ but then you have to consider the rest pf the team and now we are seeing a game plan devised around NOT kicking it to Max. A game plan devised around Max NOT getting an opportunity to even have a shot at goal. What’s the f***** point of selecting him in the seniors FFS?!

It’s not just the coaching at the moment and not just his development that is to blame. He’s responsible for this because he just hasn’t got the confidence to nail his set shots.

The players have lost trust in his kicking and the coaches were devising a plan to use him as a decoy on the flank or in a forward pocket, with Jack Billings playing as the full forward.

It was Garry Lyon who pointed it out. Garry Loinchop had some really good comments during the match against the Kangaroos. Lyon is a 5 time All Australian and a very smart footballer who earnt his reputation as a forward. From his observation, King is NOT doing himself any favours and he’s NOT doing the St Kilda team any favours. Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.

I heard that and what they criticised wasn’t Kings workrate.....they did ask “what’s the actual forward structure St Kilda trying to put in place here??”
No ability to allow King to go deep , push a Membrey up further and allow Max to lead into space....
It’s not King it’s **** game plan and whichever potatoe is in charge if our forward entries set up and structure MUST be sacked, this has been an issue for a long time. Previously we had “bomb it in” as a game plan
It’s s*** coaching
King looks utterly lost.
If I was his manager I’d be telling him to get to another AFL club cause these cut lunch commandos have no friggin idea

I’m glad you mentioned his manager. Maybe Max doesn’t want to miss out on his match payments. Maybe they didn’t want to upset his manager by dropping him.

The comments by Garry and Jason were early on in the second quarter. Both Garry and Jason specifically said he doesn’t work hard enough. Yes, they both were bemused at the game plan and said he’s not going to learn anything the way that St Kilda are using him but they also had plenty to say about what they observed with Max’s positioning and workrate.

I agree that the coaching is the issue, but it’s not just about Max. There is a TEAM to consider and if you ask the players, who they’d prefer to kick it to if it was between Max or JB or Max or Snags I think I know what the answer would be.

Nick Dal Santo also mentioned that a forward should be on the move constantly and that is what catches the eye of a midfielder. They weren’t kicking it to him because he was stagnant

Just a thought, perhaps we ask any of those players who they would prefer kicking the ball into them. We may get silence. I'm not seeing a Harvey, Winmar, Jones, Dal, Goddard, Montagna type ball user streaming out of the centre.

[Scollop]

Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.

I heard that and what they criticised wasn’t Kings workrate.....they did ask “what’s the actual forward structure St Kilda trying to put in place here??”

Uhhhmmm... you sound so confident but you’re wrong. Listen to the commentary in that second quarter.

Dal Santo, Dunstall and Garry all mentioned work rate.

[Scollop]

Why the f*** have has the club allowed this to happen. Are they that f***** stupid when it was so plain to see that Max needed time in the VFL. People come on here and say ‘lay off the kid’ but then you have to consider the rest pf the team and now we are seeing a game plan devised around NOT kicking it to Max. A game plan devised around Max NOT getting an opportunity to even have a shot at goal. What’s the f***** point of selecting him in the seniors FFS?!

It’s not just the coaching at the moment and not just his development that is to blame. He’s responsible for this because he just hasn’t got the confidence to nail his set shots.

The players have lost trust in his kicking and the coaches were devising a plan to use him as a decoy on the flank or in a forward pocket, with Jack Billings playing as the full forward.

It was Garry Lyon who pointed it out. Garry Loinchop had some really good comments during the match against the Kangaroos. Lyon is a 5 time All Australian and a very smart footballer who earnt his reputation as a forward. From his observation, King is NOT doing himself any favours and he’s NOT doing the St Kilda team any favours. Jason Dunstall was also watching Max King and he was also critical of Max’s positioning and his work rate.

I heard that and what they criticised wasn’t Kings workrate.....they did ask “what’s the actual forward structure St Kilda trying to put in place here??”
No ability to allow King to go deep , push a Membrey up further and allow Max to lead into space....
It’s not King it’s **** game plan and whichever potatoe is in charge if our forward entries set up and structure MUST be sacked, this has been an issue for a long time. Previously we had “bomb it in” as a game plan
It’s s*** coaching
King looks utterly lost.
If I was his manager I’d be telling him to get to another AFL club cause these cut lunch commandos have no friggin idea

I’m glad you mentioned his manager. Maybe Max doesn’t want to miss out on his match payments. Maybe they didn’t want to upset his manager by dropping him.

I agree that the coaching is the issue, but it’s not just about Max. There is a TEAM to consider and if you ask the players, who they’d prefer to kick it to if it was between Max or JB or Max or Snags I think I know what the answer would be.

So how do we explain Battle going backwards this year
How do we explain Coffield??
As Roo said “On The Couch” ....King is one of the most professional, drive players who wants to get better....I don’t think he’s looking or worried about match payments...,Gold Coast would guarantee those...
No, the problems at this club are very obvious to me - we are not professional and I agree with Malthouse...we are not preparing our next batch of stars for AFL football and it’s coaching , development, recruiting that needs to be seriously scrutinised

You know what’s really humorous around this site? People like yourself come on here and make statements like ‘Battle has gone backwards’ and then a few people agree with you and all of a sudden it’s gospel and it’s a fact.

Who says he’s gone backwards? Has he been dropped this year?

Coffield was dropped because he decided a few times to go sideways like a crab instead of directly at the footy

The other coaching issues are more complex and I’m not an insider. What I will say is that there are some stale assistants at St Kilda and some young assistants who may not be good enough and we definitely need better coaches to support the head cockroach