Is there a St Kilda culture anymore?

[terry smith rules]

15 or so years ago, a culture was created at the club by Roo, Lenny et al. A culture to us outsiders almost gave us the dream.

To me the culture was epitomised by two players Roo and Jason Blake (either end of the skill spectrum) but guys you knew would play to protect that culture.

The memory that Roo often quotes is that when you are about to run out you can look into your teammates eyes and know that they were with you.

Does that still mean anything. I don’t think so.

We are now a club made up of many imported players and coaches, who bring with them all their assorted philosophies and “baggage”

An almost impossible task for Geary (about the only one left) to mould and bring all of them into a Saints culture.

To see Frawley laughing with an opponent after a goal last night is just one example. I can guarantee you he would never have done that at Hawthorn. Personally I think he should hand over the 24 and take another number.

Whilst we have this dispirited group, I suspect a culture will be hard to grow again.

Hard questions need to be asked by the committed (Geary, Steele etc) to the group. The first question is “Are you 100% committed to building and maintaining a culture” .... No... then there’s the door

Fqf

[B.M]

Not a winning culture

[Vortex]

It's going to be very interesting to see what Ratt's "mass changes" looks like. The really concerning issue is the depth of AFL capable players at AFL level. Straight up Hill and Butler should dropped. But who do you bring in? Does it matter. I think we are seeing a real crisis unfolding before us.

[Laurie]

Hill should have been dropped a month go his body language says it all .
Not playing with passion only interested in his dollars
The guys who made the decision to get these guys Hannas and Benny Hill to the club should be made accountable.
As for membership next year you can stick that where the sun dint shine
I am over it.

[MickThomas]

I made my signature before the start of the season.

A few times, I thought I was correct, like after Bombers.
After WCE, I wondered should I change it.

But nah.....

[shanegrambeau]

I don’t think so.

We were going OK for the first part of the hub.

The excitement of the finals - which we very nearlly missed - hid the reality ....we were going backwards from mid-season last year.

Perhaps it is a post-Moorabbin return hangover?

If I think of good culture, I think of Grant Thomas...and yes, that coke snorting one too.

When GT went, the first dent. But Lyon had a great base.

GT was a bit of a ‘cringe’ or awkward from the outside, a bit sore on the eye at times, but boy oh boy, those boys were forged into a unit that was purposeful and supportive. Ross Lyon really had to put the cherry on top, but cracks were showing.

Ross Lyons tenure we went from Boy Scouts to men at war, he had his favorites too...Stevie Baker wars played too much, as much as I love him, the fullback dude who followed him to Frea was preferred over Max Huiughton...etc., Some average players started to be picked.

Then the loss of Ball, Dal Santo, McEvoy, Goddard to other clubs.

From men at war, fighting a good war, we went a little soured. Started to look like a Vietnam platoon in 1971. A mixed bag...some soured grapes in the bag. Survival of the individual. Pragmatism.

Lovett disaster...later Carlisle disaster.

Unfortunate scandals, then dissolution. By the time Carlisle came along with the team reeling, Seaford etc.,we were in real trouble.

I think Richo had a decent ethos going for a few years and these players were really giving it their all. Just that we weren’t that really elite .just good, honest players.

[The_Dud]

Bring back the disco?

[saynta]

I made my signature before the start of the season.

A few times, I thought I was correct, like after Bombers.
After WCE, I wondered should I change it.

But nah.....

Thankfully I can't read signadtures on this forum. Glad of that too. For anyone interested, go to forum options

[saynta]

Bring back the disco?

Not a time for smart arsed comments imhfo.

[spert]

Culture is set at the top- we have had decades of appallingly weak leadership. Butters and GT tried to put something in place and it worked for a while, but too many issues off the field.

[asiu]

whinging whining supporters whinging ‘n whining

no change in Cultcha

[mr six o'clock]

I made my signature before the start of the season.

A few times, I thought I was correct, like after Bombers.
After WCE, I wondered should I change it.

But nah.....

But don't you also believe that every Saturday is father's day !

[ace]

Yes there is a St Kilda culture.
You could find it at the Pride Celebration in Fitzroy St, St Kilda on Sunday.
Too many players were looking forward to it rather than playing to win.

[Enrico_Misso]

At the Season launch Ratts led a tour of the change rooms at Docklands.
There is a small room off to the side out of range of the cameras.
There is a whiteboard where they can show tactics etc.

Ratts explained a new ritual that the players now do in this room before each game.
The players form two lines and then circles and each player gives each other player a quick hug.
It's meant to symbolise loyalty and "I've got your back", "I've got you covered".
A sort of a commitment thing before going into battle.

So that works out as 253 hugs, or 276 if the sub is included.
That's a whole lot of "I got your back mate"s.

Perhaps the door to that little room was locked last night?

[MickThomas]

That's weird, the little hug.
There's enough contact in the pre-game warmup.
BTW, Hill wouldn't be hugging anyone, he avoids body contact

[Waltzing St Kilda]

At the Season launch Ratts led a tour of the change rooms at Docklands.
There is a small room off to the side out of range of the cameras.
There is a whiteboard where they can show tactics etc.

Ratts explained a new ritual that the players now do in this room before each game.
The players form two lines and then circles and each player gives each other player a quick hug.
It's meant to symbolise loyalty and "I've got your back", "I've got you covered".
A sort of a commitment thing before going into battle.

So that works out as 253 hugs, or 276 if the sub is included.
That's a whole lot of "I got your back mate"s.

Perhaps the door to that little room was locked last night?

Is this serious?

Does somebody actually think this sort of thing works?

Fire the people responsible an get some real men in charge.

[Scollop]

Next thing you know they'll be rolling out yoga mats and there'll be 22 footballers doing chakra poses

Or worse still...we might do what the Crows were doing in 2017 and employ the stormtrooper pose

[Yorkeys]

Geary? Last one left from that time so long ago.

Put Maxy H's image up in a big mural - that's what never say die culture looks like. Has now left the building.

For a laugh compare what Max was paid compared to B. Hill. That would show how much current footy department has lost the plot.

[iwantmeseats]

Half serious answer...
Not much...and if you werent there at the time you wouldnt understand...
How much culture was left outside the race on the ground after the siren at the last game we played at Moorabbin.
Thousands of singing and chanting fans after the game...
It was the deathknell of alot of the culture.
facts.
The modern football experience is cold, and SOLUL LESS.

[Saintmatt]

It's going to be very interesting to see what Ratt's "mass changes" looks like. The really concerning issue is the depth of AFL capable players at AFL level. Straight up Hill and Butler should dropped. But who do you bring in? Does it matter. I think we are seeing a real crisis unfolding before us.

That's pretty much spot on. We went into the season with 4 list spots open (for what reason - I don't know but suspect it was about saving cash rather than simply paying 4 players who weren't up to it anyway). Regardless - all I see are the following options: -

Clav and Connolly (both untried) + Coffield and Joyce. That's hardly a cast of 1000's when you're looking at mass changes.

I see a huge problem in that yes, we have a large cohort of players from different clubs but for some bizarre reason - a lot of our remaining best 22 seem horribly out of form all at the same time.

A large part of me wonders how we pretty much beat Geelong in general play 8 days before getting slaughtered by a team we beat in an Elimination Final 11 games ago. Season 2020 is fast looking like an outlier.

[evertonfc]

I've got a lot to say on this, but I've said it all before, and it doesn't change anything.

The club doesn't really understand the mechanisms around high performance, drafting and player development, and has instead opted to try and fix everything via a salary cap and trade week-driven approach.

It's a lost decade from 2011-2020, and this one will be a lost decade too unless we implement a totally reformist approach to winning.

I'll just leave you with this. We haven't made winning the cornerstone of what we do.

Until we change that, and we're too distracted by other causes, ideas and concepts, we will continue to flounder.

Hard to offer much else. What needs to be done is really clear from a cultural point of view but so long as we keep these same people in charge, we'll keep getting the same results.

Sorry all. I wish I could distribute more hope - geez, it's horrible right now - but it is what it is.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

I've got a lot to say on this, but I've said it all before, and it doesn't change anything.

The club doesn't really understand the mechanisms around high performance, drafting and player development, and has instead opted to try and fix everything via a salary cap and trade week-driven approach.

It's a lost decade from 2011-2020, and this one will be a lost decade too unless we implement a totally reformist approach to winning.

I'll just leave you with this. We haven't made winning the cornerstone of what we do.

Until we change that, and we're too distracted by other causes, ideas and concepts, we will continue to flounder.

Hard to offer much else. What needs to be done is really clear from a cultural point of view but so long as we keep these same people in charge, we'll keep getting the same results.

Sorry all. I wish I could distribute more hope - geez, it's horrible right now - but it is what it is.

Good post. Only consolation is, we're not alone.

Hawthorn has done the same thing and is now paying the price too.

[kell]

The legacy of Lyon primarily shapes the club's present culture. His treatment of Ball, Hudghton and their treatment of StK in the 2010 GF.....and the way Lyon departed the club. What values remain from that legacy? No great loyalty. No bond or pact between player. What message does the current circumstance resulting in overpaid imports from the Swans and elsewhere, who don't perform, give our younger players. It does not surprise that the club is incapable of developing players from the draft to A-grade standard. There is no Saint's pedigree.


I have never understood why the league does not award a trophy to the team that finishes top of the ladder at season end. (it should not be called a minor premiership as the achievement is neither "minor" nor a premiership.) If so, the Saints would have won a bit of silverware and pride.

[Jacks Back]

The legacy of Lyon primarily shapes the club's present culture. His treatment of Ball, Hudghton and their treatment of StK in the 2010 GF.....and the way Lyon departed the club. What values remain from that legacy? No great loyalty. No bond or pact between player. What message does the current circumstance resulting in overpaid imports from the Swans and elsewhere, who don't perform, give our younger players. It does not surprise that the club is incapable of developing players from the draft to A-grade standard. There is no Saint's pedigree.


I have never understood why the league does not award a trophy to the team that finishes top of the ladder at season end. (it should not be called a minor premiership as the achievement is neither "minor" nor a premiership.) If so, the Saints would have won a bit of silverware and pride.

It used to be called the McClelland Trophy but I'm not sue if they still have that.