Tony74 commented (heading updated)

[saintsRrising]

[But I’m pretty confident that having so many key players out from the beginning is a pretty big one. And that can be fixed. There’s no reason for any of us to give up.

Trouble is that while we probably will get Roma (huge) and Jones back next game that after that it is just Ryder and he may be weeks away.

Gresh and Paton gone for the season.

Hannas who knows.

Gears and Frawley most likely a fair time yet too.

So Roma and Ryder are critical for us and will yes will make a massive difference, but apart from that not much real change is likely anytime soon. So it is mainly the guys who have been playing who need to lift, and who will be deciding our season.

Our list is a so so one, and so we will only win games by playing really good team football, and that is something which we have been very poor at this season.

[B.M]

I think Frawley is closer than expected

[saynta]

[But I’m pretty confident that having so many key players out from the beginning is a pretty big one. And that can be fixed. There’s no reason for any of us to give up.

Trouble is that while we probably will get Roma (huge) and Jones back next game that after that it is just Ryder and he may be weeks away.

Gresh and Paton gone for the season.

Hannas who knows.

Gears and Frawley most likely a fair time yet too.

So Roma and Ryder are critical for us and will yes will make a massive difference, but apart from that not much real change is likely anytime soon. So it is mainly the guys who have been playing who need to lift, and who will be deciding our season.

Our list is a so so one, and so we will only win games by playing really good team football, and that is something which we have been very poor at this season.

Byrnes and maybe Connelly will be ins if the regulars keep dishing up that s***.

[bobmurray]

Reads like we need a rebuild, drafting youth, not washed up, injury prone players looking to boost their bank accounts as they wind down their careers.

[The Recruit]

Hanners
Dunstan
Webster

On good coin
Must be moved on

If hill is in a incentive based ‘games played’ contract, every s*** game he plays he should miss one. Playing like he doesn’t want to get hurt. Exactly the type of player I laugh at when they play for other teams..fml what a squib

Ryder let us down when we needed him most regardless of his circumstances that’s the facts.
We need to move him on and get in another ruck that is not a witches hat....Hunter is an embarrassing joke

Our backline is borderline VFL standard. Poor list management (coupled with being let down by key ruck stocks) and can only think they are counting down the days to Ben King walking through the doors..

12 goal + loses are a culture problem..they need to identify and move on whoever is poisoning the culture at Moorabbin ASAP.

[WellardSaint]

the Recruit says our backline is borderline VFL standard.
I agree.
Howard is not one of the best KPP defenders in the league.
He's serviceable, he has his good points, but too often, he gives his direct opponent too much room, and gets led to the ball. He stays 10m from the guy, then when the Fwd marks it easily, he points to his team-mates as if it's their fault, when he should have been wearing the fwd like a glove.

Howard takes saving pack marks but they're basically a combined effort, with Wilkie and Coff or Long pushing in the pack to put the pack under the ball, so Dougal can come in from behind.
Rehearsed hundreds of times at training.
Wilkie, isn't really composed under pressure, he can get caught easily and can't feed a quick handball off to Coff or whoever is around, because they don't seem to have an awareness of where to be or where to go.

So yeah, VFL standard is right.
The backline needs rejigging, or new blood, or something

[samuraisaint]

the Recruit says our backline is borderline VFL standard.
I agree.
Howard is not one of the best KPP defenders in the league.
He's serviceable, he has his good points, but too often, he gives his direct opponent too much room, and gets led to the ball. He stays 10m from the guy, then when the Fwd marks it easily, he points to his team-mates as if it's their fault, when he should have been wearing the fwd like a glove.

Howard takes saving pack marks but they're basically a combined effort, with Wilkie and Coff or Long pushing in the pack to put the pack under the ball, so Dougal can come in from behind.
Rehearsed hundreds of times at training.
Wilkie, isn't really composed under pressure, he can get caught easily and can't feed a quick handball off to Coff or whoever is around, because they don't seem to have an awareness of where to be or where to go.

So yeah, VFL standard is right.
The backline needs rejigging, or new blood, or something

Frawley comes straight back in. When Ryder and Marshall come in then Carlisle stays down back. With Frawley there, Carlisle there full time, and Howard, we will be okay, with Wilkie and Coffield there, and Geary back mid year. with any luck. It will look a lot different then.

Without any ruckmen our whole structure has been out of whack. With any luck all three of Ryder, Marshall and Frawley will be back in the team when we play Hawthorn in a couple of weeks time.

[spert]

We know the boys are trying, but clearly not trying hard enough

[Ghost Like]

[But I’m pretty confident that having so many key players out from the beginning is a pretty big one. And that can be fixed. There’s no reason for any of us to give up.

Trouble is that while we probably will get Roma (huge) and Jones back next game that after that it is just Ryder and he may be weeks away.

Gresh and Paton gone for the season.

Hannas who knows.

Gears and Frawley most likely a fair time yet too.

So Roma and Ryder are critical for us and will yes will make a massive difference, but apart from that not much real change is likely anytime soon. So it is mainly the guys who have been playing who need to lift, and who will be deciding our season.

Our list is a so so one, and so we will only win games by playing really good team football, and that is something which we have been very poor at this season.

Byrnes and maybe Connelly will be ins if the regulars keep dishing up that s***.

Add Clavarino to those two. I'd rather see these lads in the heat of AFL than the rinse / repeat rubbish of the Melbourne, Essendon, Richmond games.

Let Jones come back via the Zebs if only to prove his body is 100 minutes of football ready.

[samuraisaint]

[But I’m pretty confident that having so many key players out from the beginning is a pretty big one. And that can be fixed. There’s no reason for any of us to give up.

Trouble is that while we probably will get Roma (huge) and Jones back next game that after that it is just Ryder and he may be weeks away.

Gresh and Paton gone for the season.

Hannas who knows.

Gears and Frawley most likely a fair time yet too.

So Roma and Ryder are critical for us and will yes will make a massive difference, but apart from that not much real change is likely anytime soon. So it is mainly the guys who have been playing who need to lift, and who will be deciding our season.

Our list is a so so one, and so we will only win games by playing really good team football, and that is something which we have been very poor at this season.

Byrnes and maybe Connelly will be ins if the regulars keep dishing up that s***.

Add Clavarino to those two. I'd rather see these lads in the heat of AFL than the rinse / repeat rubbish of the Melbourne, Essendon, Richmond games.

Let Jones come back via the Zebs if only to prove his body is 100 minutes of football ready.

No, Jones is straight back in - he is too important to play reserves.
The rest I'll drink to.

[MC Gusto]

Fair Craic! This is a bit of a crap thread. People like Tony don’t have to come here and post.

I really appreciate Tony’s contribution and know he is a saints man to the bone. Just because you may not want to hear that the club is hurting doesn’t make it not true

[saintsRrising]

We know the boys are trying, but clearly not trying hard enough

A key problem is that team play goes out if the opposition is on their game.

And in football today without team play, you get cut to ribbons.

Just playing see ball, get ball is not effective.

A simple example was against the Tigers that there may have been swarm to gain the ball, but Tigers held their outside formation and so if they won the ball it was a quick handball, kick tap to someone on the outside and they were away.

Whereas our players would swarm in, and if one gained the ball it was normally just given to a team mate within the swarm who then turned it over.

We were 22 individuals playing a team, and that never ends well even if individuals are working hard.

[sendmehomehappy]

We know the boys are trying, but clearly not trying hard enough

A key problem is that team play goes out if the opposition is on their game.

And in football today without team play, you get cut to ribbons.

Just playing see ball, get ball is not effective.

A simple example was against the Tigers that there may have been swarm to gain the ball, but Tigers held their outside formation and so if they won the ball it was a quick handball, kick tap to someone on the outside and they were away.

Whereas our players would swarm in, and if one gained the ball it was normally just given to a team mate within the swarm who then turned it over.

We were 22 individuals playing a team, and that never ends well even if individuals are working hard.

The major problem was that Richmond's outside swarm players were each bigger, faster, tougher, more motivated and more skilled than ours.

[bangaulegend]

We know the boys are trying, but clearly not trying hard enough

A key problem is that team play goes out if the opposition is on their game.

And in football today without team play, you get cut to ribbons.

Just playing see ball, get ball is not effective.

A simple example was against the Tigers that there may have been swarm to gain the ball, but Tigers held their outside formation and so if they won the ball it was a quick handball, kick tap to someone on the outside and they were away.

Whereas our players would swarm in, and if one gained the ball it was normally just given to a team mate within the swarm who then turned it over.

We were 22 individuals playing a team, and that never ends well even if individuals are working hard.

The major problem was that Richmond's outside swarm players were each bigger, faster, tougher, more motivated and more skilled than ours.

Yeah our skill level is a real worry. IMO we have gone backwards this year .

[shanegrambeau]

Howard and Wilkie are not the Andy Roberts and Michael Holding of killer back lines, they the Keith Boyce and Bernard Julien. Talented, serviceable.

We hyped up a lot of players in the past two years. Parker and Kent. For example..

It seems Paton will be hyped now, in absence.

[Ghost Like]

Howard and Wilkie are not the Andy Roberts and Michael Holding of killer back lines, they the Keith Boyce and Bernard Julien. Talented, serviceable.

We hyped up a lot of players in the past two years. Parker and Kent. For example..

It seems Paton will be hyped now, in absence.

Paton deserves his hype, we've been cut open by small forwards. I'm unsure who those are that hyped Kent & Parker. Plenty hoped, not many hyped. Paton was a Nick Smith type, just quicker.

[cwrcyn]

Our backline looks worse because it's getting absolutely bombarded, and that's because our midfield is getting toasted most of the time. Same situation with our small forwards. Hardest position on the ground to get a kick and with our ball movement through the middle (or lack of, rather) they have little chance of impacting the game. Marshall, Gresham, Jones, Ryder, and Hannebery....that's not a hole in the midfield....it's a gaping chasm. For example, if you took Martin, English, Treloar, Hunter, and Liberatore out of the Bulldogs team, that would have a pretty dramatic impact, wouldn't you think??

[SaintPav]

Their boys are tiring - good to hear.

[Munga]

Our backline looks worse because it's getting absolutely bombarded, and that's because our midfield is getting toasted most of the time. Same situation with our small forwards. Hardest position on the ground to get a kick and with our ball movement through the middle (or lack of, rather) they have little chance of impacting the game. Marshall, Gresham, Jones, Ryder, and Hannebery....that's not a hole in the midfield....it's a gaping chasm. For example, if you took Martin, English, Treloar, Hunter, and Liberatore out of the Bulldogs team, that would have a pretty dramatic impact, wouldn't you think??

Bingo! How many times it needs repeating!

[MickThomas]

His last post was just after the WCE game, when he quoted himself saying 'they're hurting...they'll give a great effort...'
Then he said after the game 'the proof is in the pudding'.

I wonder if he'll announce that the boys are hurting (again)

Mate- We/They are shattered. But don’t ever ever think that they are not trying. Ever.

111 points is worse than that game at Western Oval where Templeton tore us a new one.
Kel kicked 15.9.

I was there with my brother, we stayed till the end and were laughed at by Doggies fans all the way to the car park.
Never forgotten it

[Devilhead]

His last post was just after the WCE game, when he quoted himself saying 'they're hurting...they'll give a great effort...'
Then he said after the game 'the proof is in the pudding'.

I wonder if he'll announce that the boys are hurting (again)

Mate- We/They are shattered. But don’t ever ever think that they are not trying. Ever.

Hey Tone ... not having a go at you ..... but is there something stinking down at the club?

That's a few weeks now that some players have practically given up

[Enrico_Misso]

His last post was just after the WCE game, when he quoted himself saying 'they're hurting...they'll give a great effort...'
Then he said after the game 'the proof is in the pudding'.

I wonder if he'll announce that the boys are hurting (again)

Mate- We/They are shattered. But don’t ever ever think that they are not trying. Ever.

111 points is worse than that game at Western Oval where Templeton tore us a new one.
Kel kicked 15.9.

I was there with my brother, we stayed till the end and were laughed at by Doggies fans all the way to the car park.
Never forgotten it

Late in the last qtr a horn sounded and our players trooped towards the rooms only ti be recalled as it wasn't the siren. Gave Templeton time to get yet another goal.

Disappointing as that game was, last night was worse as we supposedly are now a "good" side, yet we just capitulated with minimal effort.
Dismal.
Pathetic.

[MickThomas]

We were sitting on a wing, close to the fence.
I remember clearly, seeing Jeff Sarau going for a boundary throw-in against Kel.
Kel was an enormous man with a huge chest and Sarau looked about 25 kg lighter.
Me and bro both said 'F look at the size of him'

[George27]

We were sitting on a wing, close to the fence.
I remember clearly, seeing Jeff Sarau going for a boundary throw-in against Kel.
Kel was an enormous man with a huge chest and Sarau looked about 25 kg lighter.
Me and bro both said 'F look at the size of him'

The last quarter of that game was a farce. One of the umpires was doing his first game ( I think ) and he was in awe of Templeton. In that last quarter he paid him a mark or free every time he went near it. He only deserved to kick 11 or 12 ( which I am grudgingly prepared to admit was still a fair effort ! )

My only solace was that , being a George Young fan, I used to stand behind the goals at the end we were kicking to, moving at the end of each quarter, so all the carnage was up the other end. We kicked 16 goals of which George got 4, so at least we outscored Templeton !

[MickThomas]

We were sitting on a wing, close to the fence.
I remember clearly, seeing Jeff Sarau going for a boundary throw-in against Kel.
Kel was an enormous man with a huge chest and Sarau looked about 25 kg lighter.
Me and bro both said 'F look at the size of him'

The last quarter of that game was a farce. One of the umpires was doing his first game ( I think ) and he was in awe of Templeton. In that last quarter he paid him a mark or free every time he went near it. He only deserved to kick 11 or 12 ( which I am grudgingly prepared to admit was still a fair effort ! )

My only solace was that , being a George Young fan, I used to stand behind the goals at the end we were kicking to, moving at the end of each quarter, so all the carnage was up the other end. We kicked 16 goals of which George got 4, so at least we outscored Templeton !

Another memory was in the first qtr when Shane Loveless grabbed the ball inside the centre square and threw it on his boot in a sideways motion with a lot of power, and the ball sort of cartwheeled with high bounces, the crowd roaring louder until it went through the sticks untouched.
It was a portent of the carnage to follow.
Because it was so long ago, a few things stand out.