The decision to pick McCartin.

[st.byron]

"So putting that aside, is there a ceiling that comes with it?" asked Finnis. "Is there a point he can get to with his conditioning and that's it, because of the condition?"

"The simplest way of explaining it from a medical point of view is that if you manage it properly, he's no different to anyone else," said Bains. "That's it in a nutshell."

"That was my concern driving back from his home," said Richardson. "I was thinking, 'He's been asked to step it up this year in a much more serious way than ever before, and the best he's been able to do is low 60s in skinfolds. So is that because of his condition? Because if it is, it's going to be very hard for him to cope'. Obviously he's been doing a lot of work and we need to trust the experts, but he's pick one. He needs to be elite.“



This.
Yes one of the worst recruiting blunders of all time. Sobering to recognise that sans Elshaug the same mob are still in charge. Yep hindsight is awesome........but.....put Petracca and Treloar into our team and take out McCartin and Hannebery - oh wait they’re not even in our team. Throw in Bont over Billings and.........
It’s just so St.Kilda.

[SaintPav]

I'm surprised they didn't mention his concussion issues.

If we can all have 20-20 hindsight, surely they should have 20-20 foresight.

Maybe.

I can understand why you would write that but they overcomplicated a very simple decision thorough flawed rationalisation and very dodgy assumptions.

Eg We know where the game is heading. We can manage his medical condition etc etc.

They also went against AFL consensus as someone else pointed out.

He was a big risk.

Hubris combined with stupidity: a lethal mix!

[older saint]

I can live with Billings over Bont as Melbourne ( Roos) also had Billings at 2 and Kelly 3 before they traded for Salem pick with GWS .

Bottom line they got spooked by Boyd signing at WB for big $$ and felt they better grab a big forward now as the sky will fall and another will never appear again. Petracca was most talented, yes attitude was a bit selfish but he was also 17.

Hind sight experts I get it but we have had some shockers in the draft/trade time going back to 1998 trading for Frost from WB because he played one good game against us.

[spert]

I agree with what Jason Dunstall said a few years back about recruiting in general- get the best possible player, regardless of what position they play.

[IluvHarvey]

An interesting read but it's History now.
This is the problem with our club.
The Staff, team and fans can't seem to get over the past and move on.

[Moods]

An interesting read but it's History now.
This is the problem with our club.
The Staff, team and fans can't seem to get over the past and move on.

You don't learn from the past you will continue to make the same mistakes in the future.

I reckon we have every right to be angry. It was a poor decision and very relevant to discover how the club came to the decision they did. Reading this article and then seeing Paddy play his 1st season is quite a contrast. I recall being stunned at a couple of things when I first saw Paddy play.
i) How small he was in height for a supposed KPP forward. At 192cm tall he's really the height of a 3rd tall
ii) How slow he was, not just in straight line speed, but agility wise. He just didn't seem able to cover the ground.
iii) How unfit he looked. In today's game you need to be able to press up the ground to defend and then charge back. His aerobic capacity was poor as described in the article. He also didn't seem to have much muscle definition. I thought that would improve, but if anything it went backwards over the years. And Trout was trying to sell it like it he had got himself in superb condition.

What seems apparent is that they were seduced by his likeable personality. Kept saying how his team mates will love him. As opposed to Petracca who appears, by what some have written on this forum, to have put the recruiters off with his abrasive possibly arrogant persona. I know a couple of blokes who knew Trout quite well. A more egotistical guy you'd go a long way to find. If his ego was hurt with Petracca it sounds like he would have gone looking for reasons not to recruit him. f***** pathetic.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We are the only club to completely balls up a #1 draft pick in the last 20 years. People keep saying you need to go to the draft to be successful instead of taking other club's throwaways. Well, our draft picks are rarely nailed either. Billings for Bont isn't as bad but still bad. I couldn't believe how small Billings was when we recruited him. He was pick 3. The catch was though, that he had better skills than anyone. He's been a massive turnover king at our club since his arrival and his conversion rate has been appalling. This year he has been better, but whenever we need someone to step up, he's rarely our guy. The irony being that Bont has far far superior skills and is far bigger than Billings, so much so that he could play CHF if they wanted to.

[Ghost Like]

An interesting read but it's History now.
This is the problem with our club.
The Staff, team and fans can't seem to get over the past and move on.

It's a hard past to move on from. A bit like a shocking driver always crashing his car at the first set of lights after collecting it from the panel beaters.

[The_Dud]

The club never got 'on top' of his diabetes his whole time at the club, they were parroting in his last year on the list that they'd 'finally' figured it out.

Just one of many examples of how full of sh*t everything they talked about in the OP was.

They clearly had no idea.

[Otiman]

Selection is one thing, management is another.

In the Scenario that we pick Petracca: McCartin is managed differently by Melbourne, becomes a star, and Petracca goes off the rails at the Saints.

[Joffa Burns]

I think this poster went early....

With Petracca being dropped this week by Melbourne who, to avoid attention have used his dog bite and excuse for him not being in the team, and paddy’s really ‘positive’ game on Saturday...I think we can all breathe a sigh of relief that Paddy was the right choice. He will be a very good player for us.

From all accounts and by no means is it a surprise, the ONLY reason Petracca was dropped this week was because of his selfish, arrogant attitude around the club. The coach and Christian just don’t get on and if he is being dropped by a team that is clearly struggling for form and supposedly in the ‘top 4’ window, his behaviour must be pretty bad..

It was a fact that Petacca failed his psych test at the saints...not just failed but really really failed.

Paddy is a leader, Pettraca for no better of a word is a flog.
Can’t see him at Melbourne beyond 020....so no mater how talented he is....no one needs a flog at their workplace.

[Devilhead]

Selection is one thing, management is another.

In the Scenario that we pick Petracca: McCartin is managed differently by Melbourne, becomes a star, and Petracca goes off the rails at the Saints.

Yep a lot of hindsight kings on this thread

No one could foresee Paddy's concussion issues - he could just as well be dominating right now if it weren't for that ...... alas we will never know if he could have

As for Billings v Bont - Bulldogs took a huge punt because Bontempelli wasn't even being talked about in the top 10 - Billings had a stellar junior career and was 2 time all Australian U18 - the Bont had a very average U18 Championship that year (averaged 7 kicks & 1.5 clearances) but had a few better games at school/TAC level towards the end of the year incl a 10 goal Marcellin game

Pretty easy to say we stuffed up now looking back ....... but that ain't gunna help our current form

Time to move on!

[st.byron]

Selection is one thing, management is another.

In the Scenario that we pick Petracca: McCartin is managed differently by Melbourne, becomes a star, and Petracca goes off the rails at the Saints.

Yep a lot of hindsight kings on this thread

No one could foresee Paddy's concussion issues - he could just as well be dominating right now if it weren't for that ...... alas we will never know if he could have

As for Billings v Bont - Bulldogs took a huge punt because Bontempelli wasn't even being talked about in the top 10 - Billings had a stellar junior career and was 2 time all Australian U18 - the Bont had a very average U18 Championship that year (averaged 7 kicks & 1.5 clearances) but had a few better games at school/TAC level towards the end of the year incl a 10 goal Marcellin game

Pretty easy to say we stuffed up now looking back ....... but that ain't gunna help our current form

Time to move on!

True re McCartin’s concussions. His inability to get really super fit was though flagged by Richardson in that article.

[Moods]

Selection is one thing, management is another.

In the Scenario that we pick Petracca: McCartin is managed differently by Melbourne, becomes a star, and Petracca goes off the rails at the Saints.

Yep a lot of hindsight kings on this thread

No one could foresee Paddy's concussion issues - he could just as well be dominating right now if it weren't for that ...... alas we will never know if he could have

As for Billings v Bont - Bulldogs took a huge punt because Bontempelli wasn't even being talked about in the top 10 - Billings had a stellar junior career and was 2 time all Australian U18 - the Bont had a very average U18 Championship that year (averaged 7 kicks & 1.5 clearances) but had a few better games at school/TAC level towards the end of the year incl a 10 goal Marcellin game

Pretty easy to say we stuffed up now looking back ....... but that ain't gunna help our current form

Time to move on!

True re McCartin’s concussions. His inability to get really super fit was though flagged by Richardson in that article.

Exactly St Byron. Exactly

[Ghost Like]

Selection is one thing, management is another.

In the Scenario that we pick Petracca: McCartin is managed differently by Melbourne, becomes a star, and Petracca goes off the rails at the Saints.

Yep a lot of hindsight kings on this thread

No one could foresee Paddy's concussion issues - he could just as well be dominating right now if it weren't for that ...... alas we will never know if he could have

As for Billings v Bont - Bulldogs took a huge punt because Bontempelli wasn't even being talked about in the top 10 - Billings had a stellar junior career and was 2 time all Australian U18 - the Bont had a very average U18 Championship that year (averaged 7 kicks & 1.5 clearances) but had a few better games at school/TAC level towards the end of the year incl a 10 goal Marcellin game

Pretty easy to say we stuffed up now looking back ....... but that ain't gunna help our current form

Time to move on!

Agree with everything except your 2nd paragraph. I am quite confident that without concussions he would have been at best average. Average being his very best. Such a poor, amateur, poorly reasoned decision driven by flawed logic.

[vacuous space]

McCartin had injury problems in his last year of junior. I don't remember if it was concussion or other issues, but he was definitely injured. He missed three of the six games at the U18 Champs and who knows what else, since he was one of these kids who missed a lot of what was then the TAC Cup to play school footy. I'm not sure you'd have been able to predict he'd be out of the league in five or six years, but he wasn't exactly the picture of health either. He also didn't have a ton of big games against elite competition to go on. They did a lot of projecting with that pick. If you go against consensus with pick one and get it right, you're probably going to be pushing for premierships at some stage. Our guys did the other thing: got it wrong and now they're all fired.

With all that said, I'm not sure what good bringing this up over and over again does. It's an ancient article. Emma Quayle hasn't even been a journalist for years now. Pretty much everybody involved in the sorry saga has moved on. If you want to go on torturing yourself every time Petracca has a big game, go ahead, but I don't see the point. Reality is, everybody is passing on great players with every draft pick, it's just magnified at pick one, because you could have had anyone (except Heeney) at that pick. I feel like we're embarking on a self-flagellation tour because we suck right now, which is probably more because the big money guys we've brought in have been busts so far than because of a failed pick six-and-a-half years ago.

[ace]

RICHO: "We need this guy to be a ripper."

ELSHAUG: "He will be, and that's why we're picking him."

Makes you feel sorry for Richo.

Richo is laughing his head off at Melbourne.
Was out on the field celebrating with the players 6-0.
With Petracca given the best on ground medal.

[Yorkeys]

No point still agonising, however it needs to be remembered less such idiocy creeps in yet again and also to highlight how many years it puts you back wasting a #1 pick. Its one, of if not the, main mechanism for enabling a bottom side improve. How many years has it put us back, it has to be multiple. It was even worse because of all the resources diverted to try to cure the incurable and the pause it put on recruiting a key forward that can actually play. Elshaugh, who had only one job and the right bower was trumped by a blind quest to get a replacement for Nick rather than just keeping it simple - take best risk free talent available. So it won't be repeated eh? How would you like to categorise the recruitment of Hannebery. If he doesn't play very soon and for a lot of consecutive matches it will become a close second to the Paddy debacle. Do you think current board and Pres remember who was presiding CEO in both instances - whose a guy got to lay to get fired from the Saints?

[SAINT-LEE]

And yet with no concussions McMartin was exactly what we did need...split packs, took great marks, decent kick for goal, led beautifully.

But for hindsight....we'd all be trillionaires....


Why didn't you buy any Bitcoin in 2011 for 11 cents a piece? Don't you care about your family? Don't you have any concern for their welfare? Surely you did research on how to best invest for their futures? Didn't you see Bitcoin at $81,000 a piece?

Okay, you missed 2011. Why didn't you invest in 2020 when Bitcoin was $4600? Surely you realised how badly you'd stuffed up and invested everything?? Right?

Of course not. You did the best with what knowledge was in your sphere, you resisted taking a risk or trying something out of the norm....you lost big.

Isn't it your job to provide? How are you still even considered a part of the family after such a sickening stuff up?

Hindsight. Its a b1tch

I had 23 Bitcoin in 2017 I paid $22425 and sold them for $36,589 because I was worried. By the end of 2017 they were worth $462,047, at their peak in 2021 they were worth $1,863,000.

I was pathetic, scared, listened to the " good advice" of a financial advisor at CWB.

Don't be so hard on yourself for having zero foresight or no vision. We all play it safe, including St Kilda.

But does that fit your rage narrative? Nah.

Carry on blaming people for having the same lack of foresight you have....

[B.M]

Recruiters are supposed to have foresight- it’s their job!

Most of us made the call prior to the draft

[Yorkeys]

Remember how he was managed with patches and limited on field time from the get go. I forget the games he won for us. Possibly selective memory on my part. I remember a few great marks. I remember plenty dropped. I remember him missing gettable goals at crunch times. Again selective memory perhaps. Foresight or hindsight his overall state of health was a huge red flag. And we took the risk why? We could afford to absorb getting it wrong?

[Royston]

I just hope like hell that we got the right King brother...the McCartin debarcle will eat away at you if you dont move on.....

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Zero hindsight required.

All the pundits were saying Petracca was the clear standout. Padyy might have been highly regarded but he was not considered top echelon (i.e. close to Petracca).

I remember texitng a mate saying "I sure hope our guys know what they're doing."

Could Paddy's helth issues have been foreseen? To a degree, yes. He was always a risk.

Doesn't matter anyway because, even when fully fit, Paddy didn't look like a Number One draft pick. Lumbered around. Top heavy. Could have been useful.

[B.M]

Funny thing is his brother was drafted way later, and from the get go looked a better prospect and has turned into a better play - obviously.

[The Billings Method]

As Leigh Matthews famously said about Jack Watts, "This young man has shown nothing to suggest he was worthy of the number one selection." Paddy the same.

Watch Paddy's YouTube highlights from his under 18 year. Horrendous. Barely a first rounder, let alone number one. Undersized for a key forward, fat, unfit, immobile, terrible kick for goal. Good hands though, his only real plus. And a diabetic. A dud in waiting.

The genius of Elshaug. We should sue that incompetent halfwit. And there were his other gems. McKenzie, Webster, Goddard, Lonie, Billings, Newnes, Acres et al. What a legacy!

He is now doing charity work. Finally, he has found his true worth.

[Ape_Man]

Paddy wasn't some rank outsider in the draft. It is easy to say now that Petracca was the clear standout but McCartin was not just in the conversation, he was a genuine top level draft pick.

The Age had an article that had Heeny number 1, but he was always going to be a Swan.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/201 ... 1nfn5.html

An interesting quote is:

After Heeney, it gets harder. Any one of Christian Petracca, Paddy McCartin, Darcy Moore or Angus Brayshaw could have come next on my list, they're so difficult to separate. I flipped Petracca and McCartin around so many times, I don't envy St Kilda's need to settle on one over the other.

ABC had Petracca 1, Brayshaw then McCartin.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-25/ ... nd/5910704

These are just a couple of sources, there a so many more that have McCartin at the top end of the draft.

It didn't work out, but I have no problem with him being pick 1. In most cases I believe, like most, a gun key position player is more important than a gun midfielder.

Diabetes can be managed. That wasn't the problem. The concussions were.

There are studies that having diabetes can mean worse symptoms in brain damage after concussion. But there aren't any papers that I can find that say diabetics are more prone to concussion than anyone else.
I have found that there ARE studies and papers that suggest an individual is more susceptible to concussions and brain injury after they have already experienced some level of brain trauma.

And let's not forget that concussion is brain trauma.

But anyway, from what I have found it seems that concussions beget concussions and don't be diabetic if the begetting begins.

So, in my useless opinion, picking Paddy didn't work, but it wasn't because he wasn't rated and, probably, not because of his auto immune disease.