Question about King?

[B.M]

A man with supposed athletic prowess - why does he find it hard to get clear and get uncontested ball?

Why doesn’t he lead??

Why does he stand shoulder to shoulder with his opponents??

Why do we use him as a ‘bear in the square’ when he is more like Bambi??

Why is he still so skinny after 3 pre seasons

Why is he so hunched over and withdrawn?!

We either need to change the way he plays, or the way the team plays to use his strengths?!
He needs to be mobile, he needs to use his legs and not his body.

He needs to put some fkn size on, get a whole lot fitter and get a bit of aggression in his game! He looks timid!!

Maybe watch some Nick Reiwoldt tapes and get some idea of what work rate is

He does not present to the footy!!!

And don’t give me this he’s young bullsh*t Georgiadis is young, Norton is young, Thilthorpe is younger... he’s 21yo Nick Reiwoldt won a B&F at 20.
He needs to have a fkn crack and stop loping around like a baby giraffe!

Oh
And Carlisles effort was bordering on shameful

[Wayne42]

Carlisle is finished.

And we got the wrong King.

[carn_sainter]

The coach loves deep entries - bombing it to the square - so he wants a target. Unfortunately it's the easiest thing in the game to defend so he is always outnumbered.

Remember Roo had Hamil, Kosi and G-train. He also got to present to Hayes, Harvey and Aussie Jones.

I agree it would be good for him to present to the ball, something I pretty much always bang on about with how we play, but my hunch is he's doing what he's asked to do at the moment.

Also, 'big blokes take a long time' is a cop-out that the coaches seem to believe. It lowers the expectations and stagnates development. His kicking is inconsistent...? Oh well, big blokes take a long time...

[B.M]

Thilthorpe took 1 game

And he is 18

The biggest concern is his total lack of aggression and presence!

Roo might have had some other talls, but make no mistake, he was the number 1 banana.

He took 256 marks in 04 was AA centre half forward AFLPA MVP and B&F and he did this as a 21yo
He was the best forward in the game, probably the best player in 04

[Joffa Burns]

Thilthorpe took 1 game

And he is 18

The biggest concern is his total lack of aggression and presence!

Roo might have had some other talls, but make no mistake, he was the number 1 banana.

He took 256 marks in 04 was AA centre half forward AFLPA MVP and B&F and he did this as a 21yo
He was the best forward in the game, probably the best player in 04

Pretty sure we had a 28yo kick 100 in 04 and an aggressive mid sized enforcer running around the forward line as well.

However I agree with you on King.
He looked timid and disinterested last night.
Im sure the switch will flick but right now he’s struggling, as a layman supporter we don’t know why.

[B.M]

He is not mobile enough!

One of the reasons G kicked a hundred was that the ball was funnelled through Nick. He got on the end of the work upfield
And generally on the lead
Maybe King should try that??

[spert]

Never been totally sold on King- can't take a solid grab against strong opponents, not a natural FF, has footy smarts and is athletic for a tall, might be best just to play him as a tall winger.

[Joffa Burns]

Given the season is out the window, it might help Max's development to play him as a key back for the rest of the season.

Play him on some of the good KP players to learn their leading & running patterns and how hard they work.

[Ghost Like]

Serious question / observation...does he need glasses OR is he ducking his head as he 2nd grabs expecting to get hit on the back of his scone?

I think this is why Ben is a better mark because he played primarily as a backman and has not been subjected to that pressure.

[samoht]

Carlisle is finished.

And we got the wrong King.

His name is Bailey Smith.

[SaintDippa]

We're killing him with Ratten's game style of long bombs. Gets crunched every game trying pack marks. When we move it quick into an open F50 he can't be stopped on a lead. Ratts needs to change the slow movement, implement structures , clearance plans, quick movement into F50 or leave and take up golf. Over what he thinks will win footy in 2021. FFS, entries yesterday was even at 52, tigers was -3. Joke.

[The_Dud]

Is the game plan to hit up forwards on a lead?

Because it doesn't appear so.

[BadRossco]

Maybe we got the wrong King or possibly neither King was the right choice I can remember a few suggesting that both the Kings were overrated before that draft and didn’t Rozee look a class act on Sunday.

[6621104]

Agree with everything BM said. I watched King (at the ground) sitting just behind the goals. He does not present with intent, does not attempt to lose his marker with multiple leads, always tries from behind and never comes in from the side (see Naughton). His demeanour is introverted and may appear a bit as if he is intimidated.
Early days but if he wants to be "the man" then he has to start acting like it.

[Teflon]

A man with supposed athletic prowess - why does he find it hard to get clear and get uncontested ball?

Why doesn’t he lead??

Why does he stand shoulder to shoulder with his opponents??

Why do we use him as a ‘bear in the square’ when he is more like Bambi??

Why is he still so skinny after 3 pre seasons

Why is he so hunched over and withdrawn?!

We either need to change the way he plays, or the way the team plays to use his strengths?!
He needs to be mobile, he needs to use his legs and not his body.

He needs to put some fkn size on, get a whole lot fitter and get a bit of aggression in his game! He looks timid!!

Maybe watch some Nick Reiwoldt tapes and get some idea of what work rate is

He does not present to the footy!!!

And don’t give me this he’s young bullsh*t Georgiadis is young, Norton is young, Thilthorpe is younger... he’s 21yo Nick Reiwoldt won a B&F at 20.
He needs to have a fkn crack and stop loping around like a baby giraffe!

Oh
And Carlisles effort was bordering on shameful

Why do St Kilda have a poor history of player development? Compared to say...Swans or Hawks??
Why do players constantly leave us and look better in other systems? Hind the latest .....
Why are we constantly bombing ball into fwd 50 under the current and previous coach ???
Why are we not fit and not covering the ground getting killed in uncontested ball?
Why are we still playing zone defence where good sides are just picking out their targets in fwd 50 with our man 10 metres away??

If people think Max King is the issue they’re delusional- if so, let the kid go to Melbourne and watch him star.
We are managed by incompetent muppets right now with “matey mates” jobs for the boys in our stale footy dept but don’t blame the kid

[B.M]

He needs to take some responsibility for his footy, coach doesn’t get the ball for him

I’ve got an Idea for Max

Get on the move - RUN!!!

Players in motion are hard to defend. He is like a statue!!!

[Teflon]

He needs to take some responsibility for his footy, coach doesn’t get the ball for him

I’ve got an Idea for Max

Get on the move - RUN!!!

Players in motion are hard to defend. He is like a statue!!!

Read below from big footy poster who watches us train......it ain’t max King kids doing as he’s told

Can confirm. Popped into training last Thursday, and they were training the system that we are currently playing, which basically is Dougs plays on from FB, kicks it long down the line to a contest, mids win ball, hand off to outside runner who kicks it deep to Max. Works well at training against the c-graders we call ‘depth’ but falls apart in games. The players are doing exactly what the coaches are asking of them. It’s our system that is failing, which has led to a total erosion of trust and confidence in the way we play.

[bigred]

Combination of a congested F50, or even F25 and a generally poor forward structure regardless.

King needs to run at the ball more, but the issue is that there are 14 other players in our F50 because we are so slow and shyte with our ball movement.

But we are breaking down in the guts just too regularly and our insipid lack of run is generating even more of these shyte entries.

No question he needs to work harder.

Much, much harder.

[Teflon]

Combination of a congested F50, or even F25 and a generally poor forward structure regardless.

King needs to run at the ball more, but the issue is that there are 14 other players in our F50 because we are so slow and shyte with our ball movement.

But we are breaking down in the guts just too regularly and our insipid lack of run is generating even more of these shyte entries.

No question he needs to work harder.

Much, much harder.

They showed Ports forward line tonight on The Couch and wow what a contrast
Players leading everywhere, multiple directions , second, third leads and more interesting was the space for their smaller half forwards to work into....
Contrast that to St Kilda....
Static
Congested
Needing a friggin miracle mark 4 deep from Max King
A joke
Interesting seeing Ben King kick 5 from multiple leading efforts.......do people really think Max can’t or doesn’t want to do this??? Of course he can/does but our insipid game plan, dumb assistant/coaches are instructing we play this way and it ain’t working

[SAINT-LEE]

Thilthorpe took 1 game

And he is 18

The biggest concern is his total lack of aggression and presence!

Roo might have had some other talls, but make no mistake, he was the number 1 banana.

He took 256 marks in 04 was AA centre half forward AFLPA MVP and B&F and he did this as a 21yo
He was the best forward in the game, probably the best player in 04

Correct me if I'm wrong....at year end 2004 Nick had played 75 games, he was playing excellent. He took his career highest mark tally in 2004. It wasn't just his age he had SEVENTY FIVE games of playing with a stacked forward line and incredible midfield delivery.

Last year St Nick said on Fox News that if he did not have the support, the on field mentors and guidance of the power forwards he probably never would've developed the confidence and game he had. He further said if St Kilda didn't trade or draft another key forward ( for season 2021) asap they were harming Max's future as he's trying to carry an entire forward line that's missing pieces.

Nick had Gehrig, Everitt, Lowe, Hall and Hamill in support. They weren't sitting in his shadow...he was fortunate to grow up under their wings....some may think Nick was the best forward in 2004 but I reckon Gehrig's 103 goals beat Nicks 67 - which was very good, actually took Nick 5 more years to better his own tally.

So being FAIR.
In Nicks second season he kicked 0.95 goals per game....LESS than 1 goal with all those super stars in the forward line and Nick played all 22 games. By the end of season 3 and 50 games he averaged 1.06 goals per game.

At 23 games Nick was at:
0.96 goals per game.
7.9 marks per game ( unreal - but he did have Gehrig, Hall, Hamill, Everitt and Lowe in support - he could float out to the centre square knowing there were 2 key forwards behind him who could clunk marks)


At 23 games Max is at:
1.35 goals per game.
3.55 marks per game ( he has Membrey and sometimes a ruckman of some description - he's playing deep because we have no forward line)



All that said....I agree Max is playing soft, he's scared. He feels overwhelmed and you can easily see him being pummelled further into the earth each game. But f@ck it! We are the Saints! We love a soul destroying journey!!!!

[Ghost Like]

Combination of a congested F50, or even F25 and a generally poor forward structure regardless.

King needs to run at the ball more, but the issue is that there are 14 other players in our F50 because we are so slow and shyte with our ball movement.

But we are breaking down in the guts just too regularly and our insipid lack of run is generating even more of these shyte entries.

No question he needs to work harder.

Much, much harder.

Spot on! Never has our lack of spread from the centre been more evident than in these 3 huge losses. Each Port midfielder led their opponent from the guts.

Then once the ball was in their possession we could not get it back. Not only were we zoning, we were slow across each line. No wonder we couldn't get the ball back.

As a defender, defensive winger, what is wrong with the old 10, 2, zero instruction depending on where the ball is on the ground? With 6, 6, 6 this makes even more sense.

[shanegrambeau]

Combination of a congested F50, or even F25 and a generally poor forward structure regardless.

King needs to run at the ball more, but the issue is that there are 14 other players in our F50 because we are so slow and shyte with our ball movement.

But we are breaking down in the guts just too regularly and our insipid lack of run is generating even more of these shyte entries.

No question he needs to work harder.

Much, much harder.

Spot on! Never has our lack of spread from the centre been more evident than in these 3 huge losses. Each Port midfielder led their opponent from the guts.

Then once the ball was in their possession we could not get it back. Not only were we zoning, we were slow across each line. No wonder we couldn't get the ball back.

As a defender, defensive winger, what is wrong with the old 10, 2, zero instruction depending on where the ball is on the ground? With 6, 6, 6 this makes even more sense.

I am not sure about Maxy.
Look at Essendon. They’re not much chop, so far.
Look what they have already unearthed in young Cox.
200cm.
He looks about 18.
Can’t have played a dozen games.
Look what he is already doing for them.

[Ghost Like]

Combination of a congested F50, or even F25 and a generally poor forward structure regardless.

King needs to run at the ball more, but the issue is that there are 14 other players in our F50 because we are so slow and shyte with our ball movement.

But we are breaking down in the guts just too regularly and our insipid lack of run is generating even more of these shyte entries.

No question he needs to work harder.

Much, much harder.

Spot on! Never has our lack of spread from the centre been more evident than in these 3 huge losses. Each Port midfielder led their opponent from the guts.

Then once the ball was in their possession we could not get it back. Not only were we zoning, we were slow across each line. No wonder we couldn't get the ball back.

As a defender, defensive winger, what is wrong with the old 10, 2, zero instruction depending on where the ball is on the ground? With 6, 6, 6 this makes even more sense.

I am not sure about Maxy.
Look at Essendon. They’re not much chop, so far.
Look what they have already unearthed in young Cox.
200cm.
He looks about 18.
Can’t have played a dozen games.
Look what he is already doing for them.

It's a bit different being able to run free on the wing and through the middle to Full Forward, let's be fair.

[leighsaintsince66]

Thilthorpe took 1 game

And he is 18

The biggest concern is his total lack of aggression and presence!

Roo might have had some other talls, but make no mistake, he was the number 1 banana.

He took 256 marks in 04 was AA centre half forward AFLPA MVP and B&F and he did this as a 21yo
He was the best forward in the game, probably the best player in 04

Perhaps a better comparison is with Tony Lockett as both are full forwards.
Max is almost 21. At the age of 21 Tony won a Brownlow Medal and kicked 117 goals.
Notwithstanding that the StKilda team of 1987 was not the best.
Let's wait and see how Max performs at the same age. Best wishes Max...

[repta]

It is hard comparing him to Riewaldt. Roo was a running machine.
I don't think King could even get a running machine to work.

We are playing him like he Josh Kennedy whereas a strong breeze would knock King over.

I agree he needs to get up the ground and become mobile to get anywhere, however I think he would blow up by quarter time.
He isnt explosive enough to be a one out full forward