So there you go.

[saynta]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 5bf5726f52

'AFL 2021: AFL says Dan Butler free kick was incorrect call

The AFL has ruled on the controversial call made in the dying seconds of St Kilda’s win over the Giants.

The contentious free kick paid against Giant Callan Ward on Sunday to St Kilda forward Dan Butler that set up the Saints’ match-sealing goal was incorrectly awarded.

An AFL spokesperson confirmed to the Herald Sun on Monday that the wrong decision was made, but was otherwise complimentary of how umpires and players adapted to the game’s new rules in Round 1.

St Kilda led by two points, with 75 seconds left in the game, when Ward played on in his defensive 50, only for Butler to charge at him, make contact and dispossess him.

Umpire Eleni Glouftsis immediately awarded Butler a free kick, explaining to Ward that “you didn’t kick it. If you’ve had prior (opportunity), you must successfully dispose (of the ball)”.

A Greater Western Sydney player, with Ward, Phil Davis and Sam Taylor nearby, is then heard saying: “Bumping is not tackling.”

The conjecture in the aftermath was that Butler’s arms were either side of Ward, but were never actually wrapped around the Giant, with the bump causing the Sherrin to spill.

Butler’s subsequent goal was the final score of the match and stretched the Saints’ winning margin to eight points.

The 2021 Laws of Australian Football, under incorrect disposals, state that a “legal tackle” must cause “the football to be dislodged from the player’s possession” for a free kick to be paid.

In this case, Butler did not lay a legal tackle, or a tackle at all.

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There were only four free kicks paid for player indiscretions while manning the mark in Round 1, illustrating how quickly teams have adjusted to the new ‘stand’ rule that prevents forwards or sideways movement.

The rule stirred significant debate throughout the pre-season, but the roughly 500 umpire visits to clubs this summer appear to have helped make a largely smooth transition.

One aspect to watch will be whether umpires are quicker to call play on in Round 2 when footballers round the mark, particularly while taking a shot at goal.

That rule introduction, as well as the new medical sub and the decision to slash maximum interchange rotations from 90 to 75 per side, dominated discussion leading into the opening round.

The AFL’s aim was to produce more free-flowing football, which appears to be a success through the first weekend of play.

The average Round 1 score this year was 84.9, up from 78.5 in 2019 – ignoring the shortened games of last season – while other key indicators comparing the time periods highlight positive change.

Tackles plummeted from 62 to 51.9, the number of ball-ups and throw-ins were also down, and teams’ ability to transition the ball from their defensive 50 to an inside 50 increased by 5.7 per cent.
WARD WEIGHS IN ON DECISION

Giants midfielder Callan Ward has accepted the decision of umpire Eleni Glouftsis in the wake of strong debate about whether a match-defining holding the ball decision on Sunday was right.

St Kilda forward Dan Butler iced an eight-point win for his team by kicking a goal after Ward was penalised for failing to dispose of the football correctly with just minutes to go in the match.

Ward and his teammate Phil Davis both protested that Butler didn’t actually lay a tackle and the ball only spilt out after he was bumped.

After Glouftsis blew the whistle Ward said “a bump is not a tackle” but Glouftsis was quick to respond and said “You didn’t kick it. If you’ve had prior (opportunity), you must successfully dispose of the ball.”

The AFL rule book says when a player has had prior, as Ward did, a free kick shall be awarded if that player does not correctly dispose of the football immediately when they are “legally tackled”.

But, in a bid to downplay any fall out, Ward declared he was happy with the extra explanation given to him by Glouftsis.

“I was the culprit. It’s holding the ball,” Ward said in a video posted to the club’s Twitter account.

“Eleni, the umpire, explained it pretty well. She said if you try and dispose of the ball after you’ve had a chance to get rid of it, it’s holding the ball if you don’t dispose of it correctly.

“I tried to kick it and the ball didn’t hit my foot.

“I thought if you were at least attempting to kick the ball (it was play on) but that’s only if you haven’t had a chance to get rid of it.

“She explained it really well, it was a free kick and the sealer for them (St Kilda) unfortunately for me and the team.”
Results
Was the holding the ball free kick paid against GWS the right decision?
Yes
54%
No
46%
1,394 Voters

GWS coach Leon Cameron also defended the controversial umpiring decision that sealed the Giants’ fate on Sunday.

A depleted Saints pulled off one of the club’s best wins in years, kicking four of the last five goals to secure an eight-point win.

The contentious decision left Ward and the Giants’ players scratching their heads at the time, but Cameron said he thought it was the correct call.

“I think the rule is if you take them on and you get bumped and you don’t get any purchase on the ball then it’s holding the ball,” Cameron said.

“So, if that’s the case then it’s holding the ball.

“You’re never going to be critical of guys who are trying something, and he was trying to switch the ball, so I back his decision.”

Cameron said he was frustrated by his side’s inability to take opportunities but was buoyed by the fact they recorded 68 inside-50s.

“Last year we were really poor with our inside-50s in terms of getting it in there, so we got it in there today, but just the composure going back in re-entry wise wasn’t there,” he said.

“We probably just banged it long a little bit too much. Clearly the conditions led to a fair bit of that, so we just didn’t get our reward for our hard work in patches, and that was disappointing.

“And then when they had their moments, when they had the opportunity to hit the scoreboard they nailed two or three goals that were the difference in the end.”

More than 100 millimetres of rainfall in the lead up to the game ensured it was a neck-and-neck contest, but a late flourish from the courageous Saints made sure they banked the four points in a heart-stopper.

The Saints entered the final quarter three points up, but an early GWS onslaught looked to have taken the game away from them before a miss by Harry Himmelberg at the 11-minute mark from almost straight in front and just 15 metres out changed momentum."

[Vortex]

Can you breach copyright for me Stinger and post the article. A bit hard to read if you can't get past the pay wall.

[Gershwin]

"An AFL spokesperson confirmed to the Herald Sun on Monday that the wrong decision was made, but was otherwise complimentary of how umpires and players adapted to the game’s new rules in Round 1."

Odd! Who was the AFL spokesperson? Why is this not reported anywhere else except the HS ?

[SaintPav]

It was almost half a tackle but it probably looked like a tackle from where Eleni was positioned. I've seen worse paid than that.

I think we would have kept possession anyway as Jack Higgins was right there. He may have even scored from where he was. Clark was in the vicinity too.

[bigcarl]

Let’s face it. Callan Ward was caught flat footed, was nailed by Butler and dropped the ball. Free kick every day of the week.

Technically you can say it wasn’t quite a tackle, but I’ll take it. One of the few decisions that went our way. Good call Eleni.

[diddley]

I think her reasoning was right, but the technicality of it proved wrong in slow mo footage.
Was not a “tackle”, but was not disposed of correctly.
The fact it happened in the last 2 minutes of a close game is the only reason anyone has spoken about it since.

[kosifantutti]

I don't care what a spokesperson has allegedly said. If you have that much prior opportunity and you are met with anything that looks vaguely like a tackle, it's holding the ball.

[Sainter_Dad]

Has anything been said about the other 13 frees we got? /s

[ace]

If you are not being legally tackled apparently you are allowed to dispose of the ball correctly by kicking or handpassing but NOT throwing it or handing it to someone.
You can kick the ball, handpass the ball,
BUT attempting to kick the ball and miss, fumbling the ball, drop the ball are NOT correct disposal.
The rules do not say anything about consequences for dispose of the ball by missed kick, fumbling or even dropping the ball if not legally tackled.

If you take possession you will be free kicked if you are legally tackled and had prior opportunity.
If you haven't had prior opportunity you must immediately kick the ball, hand pass the ball or have the ball knocked out in the tackle other disposal options are not permitted.

Although there IS a frame that shows Butler's arms wrapped both sides, the claim is it was not a tackle.

[ace]

About to be tackled, just drop the ball, incorrect disposal but no rule applies a penalty for the incorrect disposal when not being tackled.
Try telling that to an umpire.
Umpires show me any applicable rule from the rule book.

The problem arises because the rules do not say what consequences arise if a player not legally tackled disposes of the ball by means other than a correct disposal.

Correct Disposal or Correctly Dispose: a Kick or Handball of the football by a Player
Kick or Kicking: in relation to disposing of the football, means making contact with the
football with any part of the Player’s leg below the knee.
Handball: the act of holding the football in one hand and disposing of it by hitting
it with the clenched fist of the other hand.
Legal Tackle or Legally Tackled: a tackle by a Player where:
(a) the Player being tackled is in possession of the football; and
(b) that Player is tackled below the shoulders and above the knees.
For the avoidance of doubt, a Legal Tackle may be executed by holding (either by the body
or playing uniform) a Player from the front, side or behind, provided that a Player held from
behind is not pushed in the back.


18.6 HOLDING THE BALL

18.6.1 Spirit and Intention
The Player who has Possession of the Football will be provided an opportunity to dispose
of the football before rewarding an opponent for a Legal Tackle.

18.6.2 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Prior Opportunity
Where a Player in Possession of the Football has had Prior Opportunity, a field Umpire shall
award a Free Kick if that Player does not Correctly Dispose of the football immediately
when they are Legally Tackled.

18.6.3 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Incorrect Disposal
Where a Player in Possession of the Football has not had Prior Opportunity, a field Umpire
shall award a Free Kick if that Player elects to Incorrectly Dispose of the football when
Legally Tackled.
For the avoidance of doubt, a Player does not elect to Incorrectly Dispose of the football
when:
(a) the Player genuinely attempts to Correctly Dispose of the football;
(b) the Legal Tackle causes the football to be dislodged from the
Player’s possession.

18.6.4 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: No Genuine Attempt
Where a Player in Possession of the Football has not had Prior Opportunity, a field Umpire
shall award a Free Kick if the Player is able to, but does not make a genuine attempt to
Correctly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled.
Note: Where a Player in Possession of the Football has not had Prior Opportunity when
Legally Tackled, a field Umpire shall throw up the football when the Player makes or is
unable to make a genuine attempt to Correctly Dispose of the football, due to the football
being pinned to the body of the Player being tackled or otherwise pinned to the ground.

18.6.5 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Diving on Top of the Football
A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player who dives on top of or drags the
football underneath their body and fails to immediately knock clear or Correctly Dispose of
the football when Legally Tackled.


https://aflua.com.au/wp-content/uploads ... otball.pdf

[The_Dud]

It's as if some of us said this exact thing at the time and in the days since.

I can understand how it's a bit confusing for some of the casuals though...

[CURLY]

It's as if some of us said this exact thing at the time and in the days since.

I can understand how it's a bit confusing for some of the casuals though...

You also said Lonies 50 was a gift. Guess your feel for the game is a long way off.

[The Fireman]

ya win some ya lose some...no biggy it was a close call could have gone either way ... GWS shouldn't complain..should they.

Just ask Curly

[skeptic]

In the heat of the moment, I’d have paid that every single time

I guess technically it’s incorrect but it also feels like it’s in the spirit of the game

[CURLY]

ya win some ya lose some...no biggy it was a close call could have gone either way ... GWS shouldn't complain..should they.

Just ask Curly

We still got absolutley reamed by the umpires. The worst thing about that mistake from Elani was the timing. People remember that but not the other rubbish dished up.

[The_Dud]

It's as if some of us said this exact thing at the time and in the days since.

I can understand how it's a bit confusing for some of the casuals though...

You also said Lonies 50 was a gift. Guess your feel for the game is a long way off.

Nope, wrong again Curls. It was a gift according to ‘Curly rules’, where every goal scored from a free kick is blatant cheating by the umps.

Those of us who understand the game a bit better know what’s up.

[CURLY]

It's as if some of us said this exact thing at the time and in the days since.

I can understand how it's a bit confusing for some of the casuals though...

You also said Lonies 50 was a gift. Guess your feel for the game is a long way off.

Nope, wrong again Curls. It was a gift according to ‘Curly rules’, where every goal scored from a free kick is blatant cheating by the umps.

Those of us who understand the game a bit better know what’s up.

No running from 150 meters away to award a free where no one knows what the hell its for is bulls***. Shoving a bloke clean in the back after he has clearly marked it is blatant.

[darylcowie]

Has anything been said about the other 13 frees we got? /s

Got it in one,, we didn't make the mpst pf the other 13 that were gifted to us, apart from Loni's maybe.

[Joffa Burns]

So we have the HS quoting an AFL spokesperson stating that the umpires got the Butler decision wrong.

Assuming the HS do not fabricate a direct quote from a spokesperson, we have the body that writes and adjudicates the rules confirming the decision was incorrect.

But this is still not good enough for some of our Saintsational resident experts to reassess their take on this decision being correctly awarded

This is not about the lop sided free kick count of the game and my personal belief we were on the bad end of the umpiring in this match, particularly the 2nd half, it is about the one isolated incident in the dying moments of the game which was a decision in our favor which was clearly an umpiring mistake confirmed by the AFL.

The irony is the perpetrator of the mistake was the umpire who was accused of blatant cheating against us by the " moron minority" of the forum. Now what person who blatantly cheats against us actually awards an incorrect free to us in the dying moments to put the match beyond doubt?

This really shows the utter stupidity of some forum members to suggest the umpires are constantly cheating against us.

[CURLY]

So we have the HS quoting an AFL spokesperson stating that the umpires got the Butler decision wrong.

Assuming the HS do not fabricate a direct quote from a spokesperson, we have the body that writes and adjudicates the rules confirming the decision was incorrect.

But this is still not good enough for some of our Saintsational resident experts to reassess their take on this decision being correctly awarded

This is not about the lop sided free kick count of the game and my personal belief we were on the bad end of the umpiring in this match, particularly the 2nd half, it is about the one isolated incident in the dying moments of the game which was a decision in our favor which was clearly an umpiring mistake confirmed by the AFL.

The irony is the perpetrator of the mistake was the umpire who was accused of blatant cheating against us by the " moron minority" of the forum. Now what person who blatantly cheats against us actually awards an incorrect free to us in the dying moments to put the match beyond doubt?

This really shows the utter stupidity of some forum members to suggest the umpires are constantly cheating against us.

As suggested she is just no good. The first time she umpired she was removed from the seniors and now her first game doing our game she dishes up the rubbish she did. Foote is a cheat Elani is simply no good.

[Joffa Burns]

So we have the HS quoting an AFL spokesperson stating that the umpires got the Butler decision wrong.

Assuming the HS do not fabricate a direct quote from a spokesperson, we have the body that writes and adjudicates the rules confirming the decision was incorrect.

But this is still not good enough for some of our Saintsational resident experts to reassess their take on this decision being correctly awarded

This is not about the lop sided free kick count of the game and my personal belief we were on the bad end of the umpiring in this match, particularly the 2nd half, it is about the one isolated incident in the dying moments of the game which was a decision in our favor which was clearly an umpiring mistake confirmed by the AFL.

The irony is the perpetrator of the mistake was the umpire who was accused of blatant cheating against us by the " moron minority" of the forum. Now what person who blatantly cheats against us actually awards an incorrect free to us in the dying moments to put the match beyond doubt?

This really shows the utter stupidity of some forum members to suggest the umpires are constantly cheating against us.

As suggested she is just no good. The first time she umpired she was removed from the seniors and now her first game doing our game she dishes up the rubbish she did. Foote is a cheat Elani is simply no good.

So you have changed your mind since yesterday Curly?
Elani is no longer a cheat, just no good?

This is what you wrote in the GWS game thread.

She is a cheat nothing surer.

Please get her the f*** off the ground she is a cheat

Now is she a cheat or were you just spamming the match day thread again for your own selfish moronic purpose?

At what stage did she stop cheating against us and commence cheating for us to put the result beyond doubt with the Butler free?

[The_Dud]

So we have the HS quoting an AFL spokesperson stating that the umpires got the Butler decision wrong.

Assuming the HS do not fabricate a direct quote from a spokesperson, we have the body that writes and adjudicates the rules confirming the decision was incorrect.

But this is still not good enough for some of our Saintsational resident experts to reassess their take on this decision being correctly awarded

This is not about the lop sided free kick count of the game and my personal belief we were on the bad end of the umpiring in this match, particularly the 2nd half, it is about the one isolated incident in the dying moments of the game which was a decision in our favor which was clearly an umpiring mistake confirmed by the AFL.

The irony is the perpetrator of the mistake was the umpire who was accused of blatant cheating against us by the " moron minority" of the forum. Now what person who blatantly cheats against us actually awards an incorrect free to us in the dying moments to put the match beyond doubt?

This really shows the utter stupidity of some forum members to suggest the umpires are constantly cheating against us.

As suggested she is just no good. The first time she umpired she was removed from the seniors and now her first game doing our game she dishes up the rubbish she did. Foote is a cheat Elani is simply no good.

So you have changed your mind since yesterday Curly?
Elani is no longer a cheat, just no good?

This is what you wrote in the GWS game thread.

She is a cheat nothing surer.

Please get her the f*** off the ground she is a cheat

Now is she a cheat or were you just spamming the match day thread again for your own selfish moronic purpose?

At what stage did she stop cheating against us and commence cheating for us to put the result beyond doubt with the Butler free?

[desertsaint]

seen the rule interpreted differently too many times to remember. in my observations, unless you're one of the afl's love children, or play for the bulldogs, you'll be gone everytime.

[CURLY]

So we have the HS quoting an AFL spokesperson stating that the umpires got the Butler decision wrong.

Assuming the HS do not fabricate a direct quote from a spokesperson, we have the body that writes and adjudicates the rules confirming the decision was incorrect.

But this is still not good enough for some of our Saintsational resident experts to reassess their take on this decision being correctly awarded

This is not about the lop sided free kick count of the game and my personal belief we were on the bad end of the umpiring in this match, particularly the 2nd half, it is about the one isolated incident in the dying moments of the game which was a decision in our favor which was clearly an umpiring mistake confirmed by the AFL.

The irony is the perpetrator of the mistake was the umpire who was accused of blatant cheating against us by the " moron minority" of the forum. Now what person who blatantly cheats against us actually awards an incorrect free to us in the dying moments to put the match beyond doubt?

This really shows the utter stupidity of some forum members to suggest the umpires are constantly cheating against us.

As suggested she is just no good. The first time she umpired she was removed from the seniors and now her first game doing our game she dishes up the rubbish she did. Foote is a cheat Elani is simply no good.

So you have changed your mind since yesterday Curly?
Elani is no longer a cheat, just no good?

This is what you wrote in the GWS game thread.

She is a cheat nothing surer.

Please get her the f*** off the ground she is a cheat

Now is she a cheat or were you just spamming the match day thread again for your own selfish moronic purpose?

At what stage did she stop cheating against us and commence cheating for us to put the result beyond doubt with the Butler free?

She is either a cheat or simply no good at the job she is getting paid very well to do. Both games I've seen her umpire her umpiring has been biased to the point she was removed from doing her job/

[CURLY]

seen the rule interpreted differently too many times to remember. in my observations, unless you're one of the afl's love children, or play for the bulldogs, you'll be gone everytime.

You can guarantee if that free was awarded to Collingwood it would have been ticked off.