What happened Round 19, 1976?

[shanegrambeau]

Calling people old enough to remember and all those who dare to speculate.

Round 18
St Kilda at 9 and 9, sitting in 5th spot on the ladder. Almost ten years since our flag, we had been a successful team for 15 years.

We go to Princes Park and after quarter time. Carlton kick 20 of the next 21 goals.

We lose by 101 points.

Drop the last four games of the season.

Fall into a slump that lasted 15 years 8 or so coaches, copious wooden spoons, almost went broke.

What the heck happened? I can appreciate that Carlton got on a roll...but the way we finished out the season..What it an Adelaide like implosion? What a disaster.

[evertonfc]

As an aside, that was Allan Jeans' last year coaching St Kilda. He retired at the end of the season, claiming he was burned out.

Five years later, he joined Hawthorn and won more flags than anyone could have dreamed of.

Does seem like a sliding doors day for our club, although those who saw the 1978 team rave about them as Premiership shoe-ins if we hadn't left our run for finals so late (third last at round 16 but won 5 of the last 6, smashing premiers Hawthorn, Essendon at Windy Hill and a last round thumping of Carlton).

So I'll say that the 1979 Round 4 defeat at Collingwood was the true instigator for the crisis that engulfed the club for the coming decade. We'd won in round 1 (defeating Hawthorn, again), but fell to 1-2 after losses to Essendon and a late five-point loss to Footscray.

Then we went to Collingwood and they obliterated us so badly that the club fell in a heap and realistically didn't recover for another 12 years. We lost by 178 points, a club record that is unlikely ever to be broken.

A series of horrendous defeats followed: massive losses to South Melbourne and Footscray, a crappy Melbourne team knocked us over at Moorabbin. Choked horribly on a 3QTR time leads at home against Esssendon and Collingwood.

Badly slapped by Richmond in R18, then came another spirit-snapper: not kicking a goal until Q4 in a 104-point loss to Carlton in Round 19. They led by 110 points at 3Qtr time.

We finished the year with an 65 point loss to Melbourne and a 79 point loss to North. And so the free-fall began.

Fair to say that the end of the Jeans era was a huge turning point. His exit left us wandering in the dark for 15 years, and to some extent, it's arguable that we never really recovered.

[shanegrambeau]

As an aside, that was Allan Jeans' last year coaching St Kilda. He retired at the end of the season, claiming he was burned out.

Five years later, he joined Hawthorn and won more flags than anyone could have dreamed of.

Does seem like a sliding doors day for our club, although those who saw the 1978 team rave about them as Premiership shoe-ins if we hadn't left our run for finals so late (third last at round 16 but won 5 of the last 6, smashing premiers Hawthorn, Essendon at Windy Hill and a last round thumping of Carlton).

So I'll say that the 1979 Round 4 defeat at Collingwood was the true instigator for the crisis that engulfed the club for the coming decade. We'd won in round 1 (defeating Hawthorn, again), but fell to 1-2 after losses to Essendon and a late five-point loss to Footscray.

Then we went to Collingwood and they obliterated us so badly that the club fell in a heap and realistically didn't recover for another 12 years. We lost by 178 points, a club record that is unlikely ever to be broken.

A series of horrendous defeats followed: massive losses to South Melbourne and Footscray, a crappy Melbourne team knocked us over at Moorabbin. Choked horribly on a 3QTR time leads at home against Esssendon and Collingwood.

Badly slapped by Richmond in R18, then came another spirit-snapper: not kicking a goal until Q4 in a 104-point loss to Carlton in Round 19. They led by 110 points at 3Qtr time.

We finished the year with an 65 point loss to Melbourne and a 79 point loss to North. And so the free-fall began.

Fair to say that the end of the Jeans era was a huge turning point. His exit left us wandering in the dark for 15 years, and to some extent, it's arguable that we never really recovered.

Wow..brilliant post. No wonder I had a shattered sense of self-identity by the time I turned 16 that year! (Blame the Saints always)

But Jeansy finishing in '76, those terrible last five games - perhaps he had switched off? - and then straight to a wooden spoon in '77

So 1978 was so remarkable, hope, crash then hope...

No wonder we are all nut cases. (sorry level headed folks)

That is a great narrative of 1979 though. Brilliant. But how can it be that we were so good, and sooo bad! Saints disco?

[evertonfc]

Wow..brilliant post. No wonder I had a shattered sense of self-identity by the time I turned 16 that year! (Blame the Saints always)

But Jeansy finishing in '76, those terrible last five games - perhaps he had switched off? - and then straight to a wooden spoon in '77

It's a genuinely good question. He'd been at the club since 1961; an epic stint in anyone's language. Yes, we won in 1966, but we were raging favourites in 1965 and infamously coughed up the lead in 1971.

We were perennial contenders, too: people don't realise how competitive St Kilda was in 1968 (4th), 1970 (3rd) and 1972 (4th but defeated Essendon AND Collingwood in the finals), 1973 (5th) and 1975 (6th).

Truly, for about a decade, we were a flag chance but only peeled off one victory, which was quite close to the start of that period. To some extent, it looks a bit like Geelong under Chris Scott.

So 1978 was so remarkable, hope, crash then hope...

No wonder we are all nut cases. (sorry level headed folks)

It sounds like it was the most exciting St Kilda time outside of early-season 2004. Massive wins over big opponents and then hoping like hell Fitzroy could pull off a miracle against Geelong on the final day at Kardinia Park whilst we belted Carlton. Spoiler: they couldn't and we missed the five.

That is a great narrative of 1979 though. Brilliant. But how can it be that we were so good, and sooo bad! Saints disco?

One of the reasons we were down for so long in the 1980s is that it's hard to identify a singular answer. There was a swathe of factors. Everyone's account differs slightly; I think that's part of the problem. We couldn't identify why we were so far behind.

Firstly, financially, we were barren, and at the time, the richer clubs paid their stars handsomely. Our facilities weren't bad at Moorabbin (built in the 1960s) but we treated the joint shabbily.

Now, whilst we were a genuine party club, and whilst Carlton and Hawthorn partied as hard as our guys did, they trained the house down under some strict disciplinarians and got incredibly fit, a trend probably first sparked by Kevin Sheedy's arrival at Essendon in 1981 (they were an ordinary team when he arrived).

The game had evolved in a professional sense but our club did not keep pace. Very few St KIlda players of that time became senior coaches; loads of ex-Hawks and ex-Bombers have.

We invested too heavily in off-cuts from other clubs and over-celebrated our idols (Barker and Lockett) rather than building a bullet-proof squad of champions. We had some players who played over 100 games in that era who were no more than VFA standard.

Our recruitment was ordinary. Our zone didn't deliver much. We scooped a few goodies out of Ballarat but not having access to the Frankston zone (Hawthorn) was destructive. Just as we tended to get seduced by players of skill rather than substance; we also kept faith with those of substance and no skill.

I've always believed too much was made of the partying and not enough of the administration. It was the 1980s - everyone was off the walls having a good time. We had a series of unprofessional and disorganised presidents who led boards with little or no footy nous. They just had no idea to lift the club to a higher plane, and appointed a succession of coaches who, quite simply, didn't know how to coach.

It really wasn't until Ken Sheldon arrived and made a concerted effort to turn the entire club around that we became a more respectable enterprise, and that, in truth, probably saved the club from going bust in the 1990s.

TLDR: We did just about everything wrong imaginable in the 1980s and did very little to arrest the slide. But at least we had Moorabbin, and a home, and a banging social club. Not something we've been able to say for the past decade.

[robbie muir]

At the end of 1976 Jeans was done.

He was coach from 1961, so that was 16 years in charge.

They got Ross Smith to coach in 1977 and that didn’t work and he left after one year.

1978 was the year that could have been , should have been. MIke Patterson was the coach that year until sacked by Fox I think after round 2 in 1980.

The team was tough that year and had a mixture of class and experience together with the younger players such as Barks, Russell Greene, Maurice O’keefe.

However as normally happens with the Saints if something is going to go wrong it will happen at Moorabbin.

After beating Essendon in Round 7 we were 5 wins one draw and a loss. The Essendon President called our team Animals after that game.

We had a couple of players suspended and we lost focus after that. By the time we recovered late in the season and came home with a wet sail it was too late.

We missed the finals by half a game . I think if we had made the finals we would have given it a big shake.

Hawthorn won the flag that year, but we smashed them late that season at Waverley .

Unfortunately at the end of 1978 the wheels really fell off.

Ditterich and Robert Elliott left to go to Melbourne, George Young went back to W.A, Rex Hunt retired , Graham Gellie was done after doing his knee and also Robbie Muir left.

From there it got worse. Perovic left at the end of 1979 , Russell Greene got shipped off to Hawthorn half way through 1980 and at the end of 1980 Garry Sidebottom also left.

Our recruitment after that wasn’t good enough. We were also unlucky to lose the lucrative Frankston area to Hawthorn.

That round 4 game in 1979 still haunts me. We kicked 3.11.29 to 31.21.207 to lose by 178 points on a beautiful sunny day.

It took the club a long time to recover from that.

[samuraisaint]

Between seasons 1965 and the end of 1973 we won more games of football than any of the other teams.

Let that sink in for a second...

[supersaints2]

I posted a few years ago that St Kilda had a curse put on them by a indigenous elder
(I’m sure it was late 70’s )
I can’t remember now but it was posted under
Supersaints but I can’t find it
Collingwood had one put on them after President McCallister and eventually they had a ceremony at the MCG were the guy involved buried the bone ..
Our curse was never lifted ( Not talking about the Spider Everitt one)
I’m also sure somewhere in the old VFL archives Russell Holmesby wrote about it ...

[SaintPav]

I think some of these big losses including the really ugly one at Vic Park (I was there) were a symptom and not a cause of the club’s demise. However, the large losses then accentuate the losing mentality and losing becomes self perpetuating.

It took until 1987 and the arrival of a few special players like Lockett, Harvey, Winmar, Burke and Loewe to turn the club around.

It was a terrible time to be a supporter.

[1966]

The club was broke and had no hope of competing with the bigger clubs.
The Social Club and Football Club were seperate bodies and the Football Club was run on the smell of an oily rag.
Lindsay Fox donated more money to Carlton than he did St Kilda. At the same time he treated club greats like Jeans and Barker like dirt and both were asked to forego a lot of money.
Those players who played for nothing should be treated as heroes because they allowed the club to survive.
Never forget Barker had to sell a car he won for mark of the year to donate to the club.
Meanwhile the President preferred to splash his money at Carlton trying to impress the rich and famous of Melbourne.

[suss]

Between seasons 1965 and the end of 1973 we won more games of football than any of the other teams.

Let that sink in for a second...

That is ridiculous.

[samuraisaint]

As an aside, that was Allan Jeans' last year coaching St Kilda. He retired at the end of the season, claiming he was burned out.

Five years later, he joined Hawthorn and won more flags than anyone could have dreamed of.

Does seem like a sliding doors day for our club, although those who saw the 1978 team rave about them as Premiership shoe-ins if we hadn't left our run for finals so late (third last at round 16 but won 5 of the last 6, smashing premiers Hawthorn, Essendon at Windy Hill and a last round thumping of Carlton).

So I'll say that the 1979 Round 4 defeat at Collingwood was the true instigator for the crisis that engulfed the club for the coming decade. We'd won in round 1 (defeating Hawthorn, again), but fell to 1-2 after losses to Essendon and a late five-point loss to Footscray.

Then we went to Collingwood and they obliterated us so badly that the club fell in a heap and realistically didn't recover for another 12 years. We lost by 178 points, a club record that is unlikely ever to be broken.

A series of horrendous defeats followed: massive losses to South Melbourne and Footscray, a crappy Melbourne team knocked us over at Moorabbin. Choked horribly on a 3QTR time leads at home against Esssendon and Collingwood.

Badly slapped by Richmond in R18, then came another spirit-snapper: not kicking a goal until Q4 in a 104-point loss to Carlton in Round 19. They led by 110 points at 3Qtr time.

We finished the year with an 65 point loss to Melbourne and a 79 point loss to North. And so the free-fall began.

Fair to say that the end of the Jeans era was a huge turning point. His exit left us wandering in the dark for 15 years, and to some extent, it's arguable that we never really recovered.

I was at several of those games you mentioned.
The crushing loss to Essendon at Windy Hill in Round 2, 1979 still sticks in my mind. We went there thinking we'd go alright, and we did until three quarter time, and then the floodgates really opened.

I was at the loss against Carlton at Princes Park that year as well, in the pouring rain it was, and we got absolutely flogged. I thought it was more like ten goals, but 100 points sounds about right.

The North game at VFL Park in the final round was a real non-event match wise, with all the North Melbourne bandwagon supporters really giving it to us.

But I do also remember the win against Hawthorn in Round 1 at Moorabbin. Although it was a bit unexpected I wasn't surprised because we always used to go alright against the Hawks until that time. Little did I know it would be 11 years before I'd see us beat them again.

I remember the Essendon match at Moorabbin that year - they got on top of us and ran away with it - very disappointing.

[ace]

I posted a few years ago that St Kilda had a curse put on them by a indigenous elder
(I’m sure it was late 70’s )
I can’t remember now but it was posted under
Supersaints but I can’t find it
Collingwood had one put on them after President McCallister and eventually they had a ceremony at the MCG were the guy involved buried the bone ..
Our curse was never lifted ( Not talking about the Spider Everitt one)
I’m also sure somewhere in the old VFL archives Russell Holmesby wrote about it ...

How did you sneak that one past the anti-racist gestapo without so much as a comment ?

[saynta]

I posted a few years ago that St Kilda had a curse put on them by a indigenous elder
(I’m sure it was late 70’s )
I can’t remember now but it was posted under
Supersaints but I can’t find it
Collingwood had one put on them after President McCallister and eventually they had a ceremony at the MCG were the guy involved buried the bone ..
Our curse was never lifted ( Not talking about the Spider Everitt one)
I’m also sure somewhere in the old VFL archives Russell Holmesby wrote about it ...

A NT guy named john Kelly. He pointed the bone at the Saints for not allowing Cuz to play in an Indigenous team put together for an exhibition match. Against the druggies from memory.

[shanegrambeau]

I posted a few years ago that St Kilda had a curse put on them by a indigenous elder
(I’m sure it was late 70’s )
I can’t remember now but it was posted under
Supersaints but I can’t find it
Collingwood had one put on them after President McCallister and eventually they had a ceremony at the MCG were the guy involved buried the bone ..
Our curse was never lifted ( Not talking about the Spider Everitt one)
I’m also sure somewhere in the old VFL archives Russell Holmesby wrote about it ...

A NT gut named Kelly. He pointed the bone at the Saints for not allowing Cuz to play in an Indigenous team put together for an exhibition match. Against the druggies from memory.

That sounds like it was late '80s or '90s. The damage already done.

1979 was the first season, I really had the ten bucks to go off to games independently, usually with a mate. What a season to start. I think the Collingwood game was one of them. My first visit to Vic Park. The second was around the mid-80s, when poor Barks, by this stage surely 30 something, had to stand Brian Taylor due to Frawley suspension or injury. A thrashing ensured. Not thirty seconds into the game, Taylor gained 15 metres on a lead for a chesty straight out of the centre. It went downhill from there.

I had a look at the team lists '75 ish through '80. On paper, it wasn't like we had a North Melbourne-like clean out or rotation of players.

Podcast with Trott (and a re-cap to remind us of our weaknesses...post-Richmond belting in 2020)
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a ... 1520501225

[terry smith rules]

I have no doubt we completely underachieved in the early 70s

We had a list that included maybe 12-15 of our best 50 players ever

However by 76 many of those had left or were at the end

And we had no depth, our reserves were terrible.

And yes in 78 we had rebuilt an exciting team and that Essendon game and the repercussions killed our season

Now I would like to take you that horrendous game against Hawthorn in round 12 of 1999

Prior to that game we were 7/4 and travelling

For the rest of that year we went 3/8

And from that game in 99 to the end of 2002 our record was 14w 2d 61losses, this is after playing a GF in 97

#dontgetmestarted

Fqf

[shanegrambeau]

I have no doubt we completely underachieved in the early 70s

We had a list that included maybe 12-15 of our best 50 players ever

However by 76 many of those had left or were at the end

And we had no depth, our reserves were terrible.

And yes in 78 we had rebuilt an exciting team and that Essendon game and the repercussions killed our season

Now I would like to take you that horrendous game against Hawthorn in round 12 of 1999

Prior to that game we were 7/4 and travelling

For the rest of that year we went 3/8

And from that game in 99 to the end of 2002 our record was 14w 2d 61losses, this is after playing a GF in 97

#dontgetmestarted

Fqf

Yep, the famous 'Pudding Bowl Game' when Watson said some of the players had grown heads bigger than pudding bowls, referring to Barry Hall I suppose.

End of Watson starts right there...as the St Kilda aeroplane goes into another tailspin, crashes into the sea that takes us to the bottom of the draft where we pick up those champs that led to our rise five years later.

[saynta]

Timid Timmy, a f****** joke as a coach. Some things one wishes one could forget. Appointing that clown as the saints coach is near the top of my list

[samuraisaint]

I have no doubt we completely underachieved in the early 70s

We had a list that included maybe 12-15 of our best 50 players ever

However by 76 many of those had left or were at the end

And we had no depth, our reserves were terrible.

And yes in 78 we had rebuilt an exciting team and that Essendon game and the repercussions killed our season

Now I would like to take you that horrendous game against Hawthorn in round 12 of 1999

Prior to that game we were 7/4 and travelling

For the rest of that year we went 3/8

And from that game in 99 to the end of 2002 our record was 14w 2d 61losses, this is after playing a GF in 97

#dontgetmestarted

Fqf

Phil Stevens was our reserves captain back then, and we had guys like Dean Herbert playing, but maybe we didn't bat very deep. In the 80s we often had reasonable reserves sides funnily enough.

[The Billings Method]

North we're one of the main reasons St. Kilda declined in the 70's, on the field at least. Ron Joseph, a personal friend and member of my cricket club as a j"unior told me this. In the late 60s and 70s, the Saints were, as we would say today, a destination club. Paying big bucks and getting the cream from interstate.

Along came Norf in '73, determined to rise. They threw huge amounts of money at the players we targeted. Blight amongst them, somewhat ironically. The rest, as they say, is history. They went up, we went down.

I hate them for that alone. Then they got the bonanza of the last of the under 19s crop. Archer, Rock, Stevens, Schwass, Martyn, et al. And Sydney selling them Carey and Longmire for just $10,000 a piece. You wouldn't read about it.

A bit like Geelong with their father/sons in the noughties. When will it be our turn for luck like that?

[shanegrambeau]

Nerd that I am, had to check 1980s reserves.

4 spoons I think.

Bottom 3 every year except, 1982...and 1987

Would you believe we were grand finalists in 1982 , losing to Geelong by 49 points.

Another decent finish in ‘87 strangely.

Perhaps the Ex C arlton chaps were firing?

But a grim decade.

And we also won the seniors grand final in Tassie that year.

[B.M]

The Smithton Saints won the 1983 NWFU Premiership by one point in a classic GF versus Cooee

[SaintPav]

I have no doubt we completely underachieved in the early 70s

We had a list that included maybe 12-15 of our best 50 players ever

However by 76 many of those had left or were at the end

And we had no depth, our reserves were terrible.

And yes in 78 we had rebuilt an exciting team and that Essendon game and the repercussions killed our season

Now I would like to take you that horrendous game against Hawthorn in round 12 of 1999

Prior to that game we were 7/4 and travelling

For the rest of that year we went 3/8

And from that game in 99 to the end of 2002 our record was 14w 2d 61losses, this is after playing a GF in 97

#dontgetmestarted

Fqf

Yep, the famous 'Pudding Bowl Game' when Watson said some of the players had grown heads bigger than pudding bowls, referring to Barry Hall I suppose.

End of Watson starts right there...as the St Kilda aeroplane goes into another tailspin, crashes into the sea that takes us to the bottom of the draft where we pick up those champs that led to our rise five years later.

For some reason I thought that border house pudding comment was a game earlier in the season. Against Melbourne perhaps.

[shanegrambeau]

Might have been. I remember hearing the radio report, in disbelief, St Kilda having surrendered such a massive lead, after a promising start under Watson to the season. The reporter mentioned Watsons comments, and I assumed they had been from that game’s post match commented. I also read it in the paper.. I do think it was directed at Hall among others..Anither massive turning point though. The collapse was swift bug play out over the nest season and a half.

[samuraisaint]

The Smithton Saints won the 1983 NWFU Premiership by one point in a classic GF versus Cooee

I saw New Norfolk in a final in 1983 in Hobart, but I can't remember for the life of me who it was against.

[samuraisaint]

I have no doubt we completely underachieved in the early 70s

We had a list that included maybe 12-15 of our best 50 players ever

However by 76 many of those had left or were at the end

And we had no depth, our reserves were terrible.

And yes in 78 we had rebuilt an exciting team and that Essendon game and the repercussions killed our season

Now I would like to take you that horrendous game against Hawthorn in round 12 of 1999

Prior to that game we were 7/4 and travelling

For the rest of that year we went 3/8

And from that game in 99 to the end of 2002 our record was 14w 2d 61losses, this is after playing a GF in 97

#dontgetmestarted

Fqf

Yep, the famous 'Pudding Bowl Game' when Watson said some of the players had grown heads bigger than pudding bowls, referring to Barry Hall I suppose.

End of Watson starts right there...as the St Kilda aeroplane goes into another tailspin, crashes into the sea that takes us to the bottom of the draft where we pick up those champs that led to our rise five years later.

For some reason I thought that border house pudding comment was a game earlier in the season. Against Melbourne perhaps.

After we lost to Hawthorn when we had been 63 points in front he said we wouldn't beat the Dimboola Thirds.