Ben Long

[The Billings Method]

I would like to get the thoughts of other forumites as to where they see Ben Long's develop. IMHO he is still the same player he was in 2017-8.

His stats seem to reflect this. He has averaged 11 possessions a game over his four years, with one year that number soaring to 12.

His performance in the practice match against Norf was instructive. Eight possessions against a pathetic opposition. Please correct me if that is wrong. This is fairly typical of his output. The quarterback type playmaker. The seventh defender. Not good enough IMHO.

He has been overtaken by Sinclair, Webster and God forbid, DMac. Interestingly, a mate who is a recruiter for Melbourne gave me another perspective. Melbourne was interested in the off season, but dismissed our demand of a pick on the 30s.

Essendon in their annual inquiry about Longy laughed at our demand for a pick in the 30s as well. I know that involved Dildoro was involved in that, but it shows you his market value.

I know the coach is a fan, but IMHO he is no more than a GOP. In racing parlance, prefer others. He occasionally shows a flash of skill, but then retreats into his default position for long periods of time. Mediocrity.

And he could do well to drop the pretend "hard man" act. All he's done with his tough guy schtick
is give away free kicks and get suspended. Next year, grab that pick on the 40s and run like it's stolen.

[desertsaint]

in full agreement. very overrated based on what i'm not sure. his surname?
i think more of what it appears he could offer. so let's wait and see what he brings this year.

[The Billings Method]

I think his surname has a bit to do with it. It is certainly the basis of the doper's annual interest in him. We have the sort of depth that should relegate him to trade bait status.

[samuraisaint]

He has certainly got X-Factor and is capable of some absolutely freak on-field achievements, he just needs to try to avoid suspensions. Having said that, his aggression on the man with the ball is one of the things I like about how he plays. Some of things he does lifts the team, and the crowd.

[Otiman]

With Paton and Geary out he becomes critical to lockdown small forwards. His own possessions should be the last stat we look at.

[skeptic]

I don’t think Long is in the role of quarter back though.

His spot as a defender is more defensive pressure and attack at the contest

Sinclair hasn’t played in defence primarily to this point though I understand he’s trained there this off-season.

I think it’s a bit laughable to suggest he’s been overtaken by Webster and Dmac. Both are worse defenders and offer even less offensively even if they get more ball.

Strong disagree from me

[axcellence]

Think Jason Blake... a GOP to fill the spots.

[Trev from the Bush]

Think Jason Blake... a GOP to fill the spots.

Think highly serviceable, 200 game great clubman, then.

[ausfatcat]

His stats seem to reflect this. He has averaged 11 possessions a game over his four years, with one year that number soaring to 12.

His performance in the practice match against Norf was instructive..

That one year at 12 was last year so improving, but also the game against north probably not the best for the backs to show off how good they are by the score line the were unbelievably good or the ball never got down there and I suspect the later.

[Sanctorum]

I haven't made up my mind yet on Ben Long.

He certainly has an element of radicalism in his game that brings crowds to their feet, but seems to lack focus and consistency, and has not yet mastered the art of measured aggression.

Like a number of others around his level of experience, (he's played 45 games and will be 24 in August), this will definitely be a crunch year if he is going to have a successful career in the AFL. I am yet to be convinced on what we have seen so far, but I really hope he does make it.

[Vazelos]

I don’t think Long is in the role of quarter back though.

His spot as a defender is more defensive pressure and attack at the contest

Sinclair hasn’t played in defence primarily to this point though I understand he’s trained there this off-season.

I think it’s a bit laughable to suggest he’s been overtaken by Webster and Dmac. Both are worse defenders and offer even less offensively even if they get more ball.

Strong disagree from me

Skeptic you are by far one of the smartest and most astute people in this forum you get right most times and totally agree with you...
I can’t take a post seriously when I hear Dmac and Webster gone ahead of Long..
Long is first 22 get used to it.
He has all the attributes required to play in the next successful St Kilda team.
Ask yourself how often he gets beaten.
He has agility and cover the ground incredibly well...he also is quite efficient with hand and foot....he has room for improvement and he will keep improving....

[The_Dud]

Long is a very good player and just needs to stay on the park.

Has outshone some if his more experienced fellow defenders a number of times with courage going back with the flight.

He is definitely best 22 and a big part of the future.

[B.M]

Not sold on him yet, bit underwhelmed so far, Paton, Clark, Coffield, Wilkie all offered more as defenders

Webster when he was fit a few years ago offered more

And yes, D Mac had a good year in 2018, probably better than any Long has had at this point.

He may improve though?!

[The Billings Method]

I don’t think Long is in the role of quarter back though.

His spot as a defender is more defensive pressure and attack at the contest

Sinclair hasn’t played in defence primarily to this point though I understand he’s trained there this off-season.

I think it’s a bit laughable to suggest he’s been overtaken by Webster and Dmac. Both are worse defenders and offer even less offensively even if they get more ball.

Strong disagree from me

Skeptic you are by far one of the smartest and most astute people in this forum you get right most times and totally agree with you...
I can’t take a post seriously when I hear Dmac and Webster gone ahead of Long..
Long is first 22 get used to it.
He has all the attributes required to play in the next successful St Kilda team.
Ask yourself how often he gets beaten.
He has agility and cover the ground incredibly well...he also is quite efficient with hand and foot....he has room for improvement and he will keep improving....

If only he could get the pill, we'd see all that amazing skill his advocates tell us about. Once every few games isn't enough. Crunch year. What role do you see for him? Paton went past him last year. Who will it be this year? Sinclair shapes as the favourite to do so.

When asserting he's best 22, who does he tip out of the side when all are available? I can't find a spot for him. Little, if any improvement in 4 years. Interesting to see how those from other clubs see him. General consensus? GOP who has a desirable surname.

[Scollop]

I don’t think Long is in the role of quarter back though.

His spot as a defender is more defensive pressure and attack at the contest

Sinclair hasn’t played in defence primarily to this point though I understand he’s trained there this off-season.

I think it’s a bit laughable to suggest he’s been overtaken by Webster and Dmac. Both are worse defenders and offer even less offensively even if they get more ball.

Strong disagree from me

Skeptic you are by far one of the smartest and most astute people in this forum you get right most times and totally agree with you...
I can’t take a post seriously when I hear Dmac and Webster gone ahead of Long..
Long is first 22 get used to it.
He has all the attributes required to play in the next successful St Kilda team.
Ask yourself how often he gets beaten.
He has agility and cover the ground incredibly well...he also is quite efficient with hand and foot....he has room for improvement and he will keep improving....

+1 to both posts.

Maybe the op should have added his post to the "Bring back Savage" thread. Quite a few people thought Savage was ahead of Long too. The coach didn't

I'd rather 8 possessions that go to a team mate than someone who turns it over.

The more experience you give these blokes the better they become and he is the sort of player that will make a difference in finals.

The coach has confidence in him because he has what it takes as far as game sense; hardness; attack on the footy; good decision making with his disposal; and the ability to hit the scoreboard if required.

Stealing a line from Vazelos (hope you don't mind); Long is first 22 get used to it!!"

And +1 to this post too

He has certainly got X-Factor and is capable of some absolutely freak on-field achievements, he just needs to try to avoid suspensions. Having said that, his aggression on the man with the ball is one of the things I like about how he plays. Some of things he does lifts the team, and the crowd.

[lewdogs]

He was excellent last year. Easily his best season for us.

[carn_sainter]

The coach loves Long because he is freakishly intense.

His attack on the man, his attack on the ball, his willingness to play aggressively with the ball (in terms of playing the corridor, trying kicks or handpasses which open the game up) are all 100/100.

This is why he's in the team. If you want to play high risk/high reward every now and then, you might as well have a specialist and Long basically doesn't know any other way.

It's important this is tempered with rock solid decision making and execution (Coffield), flair, creativity but an ability to play conservative (Clark), and defense-first play with excellent decision making (Paton).

So Long is actually unique in our team, despite being another HBF.

He doesn't get heaps of the ball, this is true. But he is an absolute wrecking ball.

[CURLY]

He's 100% not playing our quarter back role so his possesion count is not a great way to judge his development. He is intense at the contest which is great but I still think he needs to learn when to go and when to hold. To many times you see him run to a contest he can't influence. His decision making at times with the ball is also questionable. Can turn the ball over in dangerous spots for the back half.

[nostalgicsaint]

Also important to recognise he is only 23.

6 to 10 years of footy left in him.

Currently you back him 1 on 1 vs any opponent, know he is going to bring a bit of fear to the oppo and he has the capabilities to do the odd freakish thing.

Sounds like a great young option who is probably picked somewhere between 16th and 26th. Meaning he plays most weeks.

As Saints supporters we tend to be impatient with youth.

[Beno88]

He is exactly the type of player a team needs to go deep into the finals.

He had Bulldogs players looking over their shoulders at every centre bounce in the elimination final.

[minneapolis]

I am not yet convinced.

Much prefer Paton, Coffield, Wilkie or Clark in his spot.

I think this is a pivotal year for him. Good that Ratts is trying to build us a player but he has not shown me his effectiveness yet. Bit of heart-in-mouth when he gets it for me.

Good topic though. I am expecting a few solid hits from him but I will be watching for elite disposal myself. If he can do that, then I am onboard. Have my doubts though.

[Winmar7]

We don't have quarterbacks in AFL!!!

[The Fireman]

If the rest of the team went in as hard as he does we would be a soda for the flag.

[Gershwin]

I like him.
Brings physicality to the contest and has dash. Needs to eliminate high bumps and tackles but still hit hard.
I think there is a tendency to ignore the mistakes of some players and highlight those of others and he isn’t given too much slack by critics.
Can’t have the defence full of ‘intercept’ players.

[Impatient Sainter]

Unlike Richardson, Ratten will play players on form and there capacity to maintain possession of the footy.

There is no doubt Long has room for improvement eg the silly free kicks he gives away, but he brings so much more to team than what the op suggests. His attack on the ball on the ground and in the air sets the standards for his team mates, plus he uses the ball really well.

Webster will get his chance with Geary out, and the competition for positions is healthy for the team. If McKenzie can push himself into the team it means his form is outstanding and is good for the team. Remember Ross also played across HB in the scratch matches.

I dont think Ratts plays favourites, and sees the game a whole lot more holistic than his predecessor.