Midfield Depth

[B.M]

We’ve had a far more star studded midfield (96-98, 04-06 and 08-11)
But not sure I’ve seen a deeper midfield at StK

Rucks
Ryder (AA)
Marshall (RU B&F)

Mids
Crouch (B&F 2019)
Steele (AA, B&F 2020)
Ross (B&F 2017/2019)
Jones
Gresham
Hill (B&F 2017)
Billings
Hannebery (3 x AA)
Clark
Dunstan
Bytel
Higgins
Byrnes

That’s what you call ‘batting deep’

[8bloggs]

Depth yes, but is the quality good enough to win a Grand Final?

[skeptic]

That list pales in comparison to both the star quality and depth mentioned in the OP.

Hard to say it bats deep when Byrnes, Bytel and Dunstan need to improve markedly to be top 22

When Jones, Hannebery and Crouch are all higher on the injury prone scale

Ross and Hill are considered in some circles to be past their best

Higgins and Clark have primarily been played in other positions and are looking to cement spots on the midfield team

And Gresham and Billings are routinely criticised for being inconsistent

Steele is the only star there after his break out year and we’re completely dependent on him to back up if we’re to go anywhere this year

The midfield for us IMO certainly has class and potentially but it’s a touch a go prospect.
If Steele or Crouch go down and or any/a few of Gresh/Billings and Hill misfire... one would suggest we won’t have the fire power to push

[fugazi 2021]

It's very promising

If another one or two can follow Steele arc we will be right up there.

Billings and Gresham, and maybe Bytel in next couple of years, could complement Hannaberry Steele Hill and Crouch in the guts.

Not sure Ross and Jones will actually improve much but are certainly good depth.

[leighsaintsince66]

I agree skeptic. We still need to target elite midfielders. Perhaps Merrett or Kelly?

[B.M]

How are Ross and Hill past their best?
They are 27yo

Hill suffered a bit due to shortened quarters and Ross played a different role (negating)

Hannebery maybe at 30 and with injuries, but an 80% DH is still a quality player, considering at his best he was elite

Crouch is a gun

Steele is a gun and then some

Gresham, Billings and Clarke provide class

Zac Jones grunt

And of course the dual ruckmen

The rest are purely depth.

Believe me, the midfield is stocked

[saintsRrising]

Yes great depth at present....and with Crouch added our quality has improved.

If Hill can fire up and be the player we know he can be, and Hannas stay on the park we could have an excellent midfield. Moreso if say Gresh and Higgins can both be good mids rotating through the FP. And then if Bytel could arrive.... There is a lot to be excited about if it all clicks this year.


But look at say 97:

Everitt
Vidovic

Harvey
Burke
Winmar
Aussie Jones

Joel Smith
Rod Keogh

Andrew Thompson
Tony Brown
Jayson Daniels
Dean Anderson
Justin Peckett

[bigcarl]

Agree with the OP. Exciting times.

I want Clark and Gresham heavily involved. Don’t want them consigned to back flank and forward pocket. That would be a waste of two potential future A-Grade midfielders.

Only wish would be for Ryder to be younger. We need him to stand up so Marshall can fill CHF. If either of them fall over, we can still contend but it will make it harder.

How do we look for ruck depth?

[Vortex]

There are 18 names in BMs OP, you only need 6 to take the field. If you put the debate about quality and availability to one side, that is some serious depth.

What it does do is create serious competition and that could be the best outome of all.

Flag contenders generally have at least 4 genuine A grade midfielders and one A grade ruckman. That's what we don't have yet, however the ground has never been more fertile for the midfield factory we currently possess to produce cogs in the machine.

[B.M]

OP is about midfield depth, not midfield class

But anyway

Class
Steele, Hannebery, Hill, Billings, Gresham, Clark
Marshall, Ryder

Workhorses
Crouch, Ross, Jones, Dunstan, Bytel

[Vortex]

OP is about midfield depth, not midfield class

But anyway

Class
Steele, Hannebery, Hill, Billings, Gresham, Clark
Marshall, Ryder

Workhorses
Crouch, Ross, Jones, Dunstan, Bytel

Raises the question in an old debate, would you rather have all your eggs in one basket and say have one marquee player like a Dusty or Danger and a supporting cast of GOPs. Or would you be better having an even class of depth that allows you to apply the strategy: when one soldier goes down you just bring in another soldier.

It seems like we have the latter.

[B.M]

One player can be tagged

Multiple options far harder to shut down

[Ghost Like]

OP is about midfield depth, not midfield class

But anyway

Class
Steele, Hannebery, Hill, Billings, Gresham, Clark
Marshall, Ryder

Workhorses
Crouch, Ross, Jones, Dunstan, Bytel

Raises the question in an old debate, would you rather have all your eggs in one basket and say have one marquee player like a Dusty or Danger and a supporting cast of GOPs. Or would you be better having an even class of depth that allows you to apply the strategy: when one soldier goes down you just bring in another soldier.

It seems like we have the latter.

Thankfully we do have the latter after a rich history of marquee players netting us one solitary flag.

Let's embrace the sum of the parts.

[Gershwin]

We’ve had a far more star studded midfield (96-98, 04-06 and 08-11)
But not sure I’ve seen a deeper midfield at StK

Rucks
Ryder (AA)
Marshall (RU B&F)

Mids
Crouch (B&F 2019)
Steele (AA, B&F 2020)
Ross (B&F 2017/2019)
Jones
Gresham
Hill (B&F 2017)
Billings
Hannebery (3 x AA)
Clark
Dunstan
Bytel
Higgins
Byrnes

That’s what you call ‘batting deep’

Honestly, take off your rose-coloured glasses. This is how they went last year - not years ago.

Rucks
Ryder (AA) - 8th in B&F
Marshall (RU B&F) - 4th in B&F

Mids
Crouch (B&F 2019) - not in the top 10 in B&F
Steele (AA, B&F 2020) - 1st in B&F
Ross (B&F 2017/2019) - 10th in B&F
Jones - 6th in B&F
Gresham - injured
Hill (B&F 2017) - still running
Billings - 12th in B&F (I think)
Hannebery (3 x AA) - somewhere in the teens I think
Clark - 9th in B&F
Dunstan - injured and lucky to be still on the list
Bytel - struggling to get a game
Higgins - couldn't get a game
Byrnes - just a kid

That’s what you call ‘batting deep’ ???

[B.M]

Yes it is

[B.M]

Not sure they can all win the B&F?

[skeptic]

17 players listed in the OP

8 of them don’t primarily play in the midfield
3 are highly injury prone
Only 4 of them weren’t available to play in the team smashed by Richmond on the semifinal... 2 due to injury, 2 were elsewhere

It’s a little early to start boasting IMO

[mad saint guy]

Our midfield depth is a lot deeper than it was a few years ago, although I think our depth in defence is much better. Outside of Sinclair, no one from my depth team is close to challenging the starting midfield for a spot.

My best 22

B: Paton, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Coffield, Carlisle, Long
C: Hill, Steele, Jones
HF: Billings, Marshall, Gresham
F: Butler, King, Membrey

Foll: Ryder, Crouch, Clark
Int: Battle, Hannebery, Higgins, Ross


Depth

B: Geary, Frawley, Highmore
HB: Roberton, Clavarino, Webster
C: Connolly, Dunstan, Sinclair
HF: Kent, Allison, McKenzie
F: Joyce, McKernan, Lonie

Foll: Alabakis, Bytel, Byrnes

[B.M]

Depth means people who can roll through the middle

Marshall, Gresham, Clark, Higgins, Battle (wing)
Will start forward or HB and rotate through

The rest will start in the midfield (inside or wing) or on the bench and be a part of the midfield rotation

Others will play at Sandy as mids and be midfield depth

[Joffa Burns]

Defenders
Howard, Carslile, Battle, Wilkie, Long, Clark, Coffield, Geary, Paton
- Plenty of depth with Webster, Robbo etc

Rating B Grade - 6th - 8th in AFL
Lack another tall key defender, Clark and Coffield may transition up field.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Ross & Billings play through half back

Some real class with Wilkie, Howard, Coffield, Paton & Clark who all have some elite qualities.

Midfield
Steele, Crouch, Jones, Hannebery, Ross, Hill, Sinclair

Rating B grade - between 6th - 9th in AFL. Plenty of depth to spread the load but outside of Steele there are no A graders and Steele has only hit that level in one season. A couple of butchers in the group but lot's of outside run and some potential class users in Hill, Clark & Billings.

- Plenty of depth with Clark, Gresham, Billings, Higgins all looking capable of running through the midfield, then there is Dunstan, Bytel & Byrnes who appear true mids outside the best 22.

Rucks
Ryder & Marshall

Rating A grade - 1st - 4th in AFL - where a force when combining well in the latter part of 2020 and troubled all opposition.

- Depth - falls away very, very quickly if one of these two are injured with McKernan only real back up and Alabakis a long way off being ready. Would love to rookie a young 200+ cm ruck for development such as Heath or Walsh.

Forwards
King, Marshall, Membrey, Butler, Billings, Gresham, Higgins
Rating - B+ - 3rd -5th in AFL

- Plenty of depth in the small forward department with starting 22 players from 2020 Lonie & Kent looking outside the best 22 for mine. Battle, Wood, Sinclair, Geary, Hannebery etc could also play through the forward line.

Pretty bullish on our forwards but we lack a back up key tall should King or Marshall go down, but our small & mid sized forwards match any club in the competition IMO.

[Vortex]

17 players listed in the OP

8 of them don’t primarily play in the midfield
3 are highly injury prone
Only 4 of them weren’t available to play in the team smashed by Richmond on the semifinal... 2 due to injury, 2 were elsewhere

It’s a little early to start boasting IMO

So are you concerned our midfield is a weakness in 2021

[B.M]

Was our midfield a weakness last season?

Because we’ve just added Crouch to the mix

Gresham is available

Hannebery maybe available

Clark will spend more time in there

Bytel and Byrnes are a year older

No losses out of the midfield, not sure it is worse than last year

Unless Steele gets injured

[Vortex]

Was our midfield a weakness last season?

Because we’ve just added Crouch to the mix

Gresham is available

Hannebery maybe available

Clark will spend more time in there

Bytel and Byrnes are a year older

No losses out of the midfield, not sure it is worse than last year

Unless Steele gets injured

I reckon we have most of the ingredients to rise into top 4 contention, what we will need is luck with injuries to allow this list to play as much game time as possible to develop cohesion.

[carn_sainter]

It wasn't a weakness.

I don't know the stats, but Ratten said we're generally quite good from stoppage, especially score from stoppage, which is why Richmond towelling us up in that category in the last game of the year was ironic.

If everything goes right, nobody is injured and everyone improves, maintains, or drops off as expected, it's a good unit. There's not much tolerance to carry passengers (by contrast, when you have R Harvey and N Winmar the rest of the team can have a shocker and you still might win) but likewise, if other teams are off their game just a little we can beat them soundly.

From a pure archetypal point of view, what I think we need is
- a Dal Santo type > meaning clean, clean, clean with foot and hands, good with space, never rushed, two sided, will murder you in space. If H Clark continues, he is in this mould
- a big link man, actually a forward-mid but doing damage through the middle of the ground > I'd really like to see Battle in this role, maybe changing with Membrey intermittently in terms of distance from goal

[bigcarl]

Rucks
Ryder & Marshall

Rating A grade - 1st - 4th in AFL - where a force when combining well in the latter part of 2020 and troubled all opposition.

- Depth - falls away very, very quickly if one of these two are injured with McKernan only real back up and Alabakis a long way off being ready. Would love to rookie a young 200+ cm ruck for development such as Heath or Walsh.

Agree. Ryder being hamstrung for the semi against Richmond cost us. Not only did we miss his influence in the middle, it affected our forward structure with Marshall having to take the bulk of the ruckwork.

I don’t know enough about McKernan to make a judgement on his worth as a replacement, but hopefully he is at least adequate.

Surely with a bit of left-field thinking there is someone else on the list who can also step in a worst-case scenario. I can’t think of who at the moment though.