The Seb Ross discussions

[asiu]

oh yea ... i nearly forgot

‘slag off’ was fairly well used where i grew up

usually aimed at know it alls
from the mainland

[skeptic]

I tend to think the whipping boy argument is quite overblown here

Suggesting that Ross is not a superstar or is B-Grade does not make him the whipping boy. In fact the overwhelming majority have him in the top 22.

The discussions devolve when one particular forumites goes around attacking everyone for suggesting he’s not the GOAT or that he can improve or that a particular play was poor.

And that has been happening for a long time here

[B.M]

Don’t Richmond bomb it long

They just smash it forward and run onto it. Chaos ball!

I believe our current game plan is to hit King or Marshall inside 25M and smalls get to work.

Personally, I’d like to see King lead more and use his pace rather than just try and take contested marks!
His ratio of contested marks compared to uncontested is too high IMO.

[B.M]

Skeptic - speaking of overblown

Who suggested Seb is the GOAT?

[skeptic]

Skeptic - speaking of overblown

Who suggested Seb is the GOAT?

Certainly not yourself BM.

I was merely embellishing for emphasis.

By and large this has been an interesting and respectful discussion, and it’s been nice to read the views of yourself and CQ who have largely refrained from attacking each other and just stayed on topic.

One of the reasons the Ross debates tend to get so polarising is the amount of abuse that often accompanies a suggestion that he’s not constantly perfect.

[The_Dud]

The dud wrote

"Then there are the likes of Hill, Billings, Coff and Long who can also roam around the ground and are ahead of Seb in those positions too."



IMHFO the dud has gone from unknowing to plainly ridiculous.

Glad to see you still reading my stuff!

Pretty simple, Hill and Billings roam around mainly off a wing, and are superior to Seb in that role due to their ‘class’. And Coff and Long rebound off half back, and again do this better than Seb could, again due to their foot skills and marking ability.

[Vortex]

I believe our current game plan is to hit King or Marshall inside 25M and smalls get to work.

That's my understanding of the tweak Ratts made to our game plan which was to create more scoring potential within 15 to 25 metres of goal.

So either get a mark and a set shot within that distance or feed the ball to a player within that range by hand that doesn't have pressure from opposition players and is clear to have a shot.

I believe the "effective score" developed by DOS is used by Ratts during the game to measure the effectiveness of the set plays within the game plan.

Our stats for scoring throughout the 2020 season seam to suggest more of our goals were coming from within that 15 to 25 metre range from goal.

[B.M]

Hill and Billings are better wingman than Seb

They are outside mids

Seb is a better onballer than both of them

He is an inside mid

[B.M]

Vortex, I think you are correct in say that the devised game plan was to get the ball in deep (even though the bomb it long over the years has been criticised) what was different and effective early last season was the ability of King and Marshall to either take a contested grab or more often bring it to ground where Butler, Gresham, Lonie, Kent, Hind etc got to work.

In the AR era, when it was often bombed forward, an outnumber defender either marked it or rebounded it out of d50

For a number of years StK inaccuracy was the worst in the AFL with a lot of shots from greater than 45m and 45 degrees. Our new game plan avoided these shallow and wide entries.

Another difference was the speed we actually got it in the forward line, not allowing the outnumber. The increased speed from back to front really put defences under pressure with the deep entry.

Towards the back end of the season, oppositions woke up to our game plan a bit and held their back six structure rather than getting sucked up high and beaten on the way back to goal.
How many StK goals were scored running into an open goal early in the season compared to the end of the season.

The opposition main focus was not to allow the over the back goals and defenders stayed goal side.

This is where I believe our game plan needed to evolve. If the defenders were staying goal side and defending the out the back, we (in particular King) should have hit up at the ball and used his pace on the lead.

Maybe we’ll will see a tweak in 2021?

All game plans need to evolve and be flexible... even within games if things ain’t working.

[saynta]

The dud wrote

"Then there are the likes of Hill, Billings, Coff and Long who can also roam around the ground and are ahead of Seb in those positions too."



IMHFO the dud has gone from unknowing to plainly ridiculous.

Glad to see you still reading my stuff!

Pretty simple, Hill and Billings roam around mainly off a wing, and are superior to Seb in that role due to their ‘class’. And Coff and Long rebound off half back, and again do this better than Seb could, again due to their foot skills and marking ability.

I try not to, but you are still, at least at this point someone I still unfortunately respond to. Only occasionally mind you.And then only when you say someting outrageously stupid. You said above,quite wrongly I might add, that Long, Hill and Coffield are at this point in time better on- ballers than Seb, which is plainly nonsense.

[saynta]

Hill and Billings are better wingman than Seb

They are outside mids

Seb is a better onballer than both of them

He is an inside mid

Correct.

[saynta]

Skeptic - speaking of overblown

Who suggested Seb is the GOAT?

Well not me mate, but let that particular poster play his little games. I never buy in or respond to him. Haven't for years now, even to his pathetic pm that he once sent me..

[skeptic]

You generally respond and talk to me every week and quote me every month or two Saynta

Glad to see you keep up the charade with other forumites too

As the for the PM, I have no shame in trying to bury the hatchet rather than doing what you do which is talk about/too me frequently and say you don’t

That is pathetic. It’s what someone expects of a poster that is involved in 90% of the conflict here and that abuses the most forumites

CQ absolutely nailed it when he said your main contribution is quoting people and insulting rather than contributing to the topic. Rarely are you involved in a good discussion.

[The_Dud]

BM and saynta, it looks like you are both agreeing with what I’m saying.

Billings and Hill (prob Clark and Jones too) are better outside mids than Seb

Steele, Crouch and DH (when fit) are better inside mids than Seb

Coff and Long are better rebounding from D50 than Seb

Steele is a better tagger than Seb (though wasted in that position)

[saynta]

BM and saynta, it looks like you are both agreeing with what I’m saying.

Billings and Hill (prob Clark and Jones too) are better outside mids than Seb

Steele, Crouch and DH (when fit) are better inside mids than Seb

Coff and Long are better rebounding from D50 than Seb

Steele is a better tagger than Seb (though wasted in that position)

Never mate, never.

[B.M]

You need to go into a game with 5 inside mids and 3 outside mids

My guess is
Inside
Steele
Crouch
Jones
Ross
Gresham
Depth Dunstan, Bytel, Byrnes

Others who can run through the centre square
Clark, Hannebery

Outside
Billings
Hill
Hannebery
Depth Sinclair, Connolly

Others who could play Wing
Clark, Battle

[shanegrambeau]

Could Jack Sinclair become another Duncan (Geelong)?

[Vortex]

Could Jack Sinclair become another Duncan (Geelong)?

It looked like Sincs was being groomed to take over the defensive midfielder role Hunter played in 2020.

Sincs looked like he was getting his game going towards the back end of the season. Can he squeeze more out of himself under Ratts.

[B.M]

No

He is not nearly as good

Duncan is an underrated gun

Sinclair is a handy little neat player who can play as a HF or Wing
and give you about 15 creative disposals
Duncan
Is a 25poss A Grade mid who can dominate a game

[B.M]

When did Hunter play as a defensive mid??

I’m not even sure Hunter defended much, when he was actually in defence?!

He got some time in the back half of the year in the middle, but that was to generate some play, his main role was to win the footy.

Ross was obviously the defensive mid (especially late in the season)

[Vortex]

When did Hunter play as a defensive mid??

I’m not even sure Hunter defended much, when he was actually in defence?!

He got some time in the back half of the year in the middle, but that was to generate some play, his main role was to win the footy.

Ross was obviously the defensive mid (especially late in the season)

Who takes Hunter's spot off half back when he moves into the midfield full time? My guess is Sincs.

I can't see Robbo getting back into this side.

[Gershwin]

When did Hunter play as a defensive mid??

I’m not even sure Hunter defended much, when he was actually in defence?!

He got some time in the back half of the year in the middle, but that was to generate some play, his main role was to win the footy.

Ross was obviously the defensive mid (especially late in the season)

Who takes Hunter's spot off half back when he moves into the midfield full time? My guess is Sincs.

I can't see Robbo getting back into this side.

Coffield and Long would play HBF.

[Vortex]

When did Hunter play as a defensive mid??

I’m not even sure Hunter defended much, when he was actually in defence?!

He got some time in the back half of the year in the middle, but that was to generate some play, his main role was to win the footy.

Ross was obviously the defensive mid (especially late in the season)

Who takes Hunter's spot off half back when he moves into the midfield full time? My guess is Sincs.

I can't see Robbo getting back into this side.

Coffield and Long would play HBF.

Yep, right where they were in 2020, so if Hunter moves into the midfield full time in 2020 who takes Hunters spot?

[B.M]

Back 6

Paton - Howard - Wilkie

Coffield - Carlisle - Long

Would be my guess

[Vortex]

Back 6

Paton - Howard - Wilkie

Coffield - Carlisle - Long

Would be my guess

So assume Sincs rotates through there and it looks like Robbo will stuggle to push into that backline which is remarkable considering he was considered our best backman only a few sessions ago.