The Seb Ross discussions

[saynta]

Credibility, at least in my eyes is something JB and BM have in bucket loads. They have proven their footy knowledge to be astute over decades on this forum.

On the other hand IMHFO, CQ SAINT is totally lacking in credibility and proves that fact time and time again.

But what would you expect from a banana bender new to the real footy game.

But hey, as I said, that is only my opinion.

True and yet completely misguided as well. Your opinion is acknowledged and immediately disregarded. I must say though, what you lack in football knowledge, you certainly make up for with quaint old stories and of course, your opinion. Looking forward to your next post Saynta.

I get you are snaky with BM because he showed you up for your lack of knowledge but don't try that crap on with me.



I, on the other hand are not looking forward to your next inane rubbishy denigrating post. You should be ashamed to call yourself a St Kilda supporter, something you are definitely not in my eyes.

I'm sure you wouldn't be game to repeat your opinions on the Saints Vice Captain to his face.

Like you Saynta, BM is entitled to his opinion and can deflect my criticism of Seb any way he likes. I actually think it's very interesting but I see why he won't quote or stay on track with points. The flipping of context to create diversion from facts you too do is amusing too.

The fact remains, evidenced in that last article I posted and through his new role and initiatives with the ball, that after winning 2 B&F's and amassing a disposal count in the 30's for 4 years, Seb has had his wings clipped and been told to follow the better mids from the opposition around and when you get the ball, deliver it safely to someone else who can kick to a target properly. This has halved his disposal this far and he is better because of it.

Losers are the type of people that would revell in the 4 years of s*** disposal that Seb dished up and they would also completely miss the implications that the required role change has on Sebs efforts over the previous 4 years.
I have always said, he is a great athlete, a professional in the way he conducts himself and a loyal club man who does what is expected of him and more, im not going piss in anyone's pocket and crap on about how good he was or is though.
He is better now because he has support and doesn't feel like he has to do everything. He is still a s*** kick though. He just has to swim between the flags and maintain his solid B grade status, but the money is non negotiable. He is going to take a pay cut otherwise he will be stealing from Coffield, Clark and King. If he moves on, well I'll still be here, telling you how it really is. There's a block button somewhere on here, never used it or reported anyone myself, but your sensitivity levels may require you to give it a try. Weak as piss really but I whatever floats your boat. I can do this all day.

yawn. Just to let you know I won't be reading this post.

Classic Saynta. Inane to the end. Despite your occasional retorts, I was pretty certain you only read your own posts most of the time.

Yawn once again. Didn't think you would know what inane meant, but couldn't you at least be more original.

And you are wrong again. I read most posts but now consider yours not worth the time or effort. Cia baby.

Bit of advice though. If you want to slag off on saints champions, there are at least 17 other AFL sites.

[Sanctorum]

Billings didn't pass Sebby this year.

Just my opinion but Seb would not be able to hold his spot if he played as a wing / half forward.

Just as JB would not have held his spot as a centre square mid.

Fair point in the context of players versus postions on the ground.

In terms of expectation and potential I wonder where JB is at. With Seb I don't have any expectation of him and his role beyond 4th to 6th in the midfield and it will be interesting to see if Ratts can squeeze any more potential from him, probably not but I'm ok with that until such time as someone knocks him out of the team rather than he he is replaced becuase he has regressed in output.

JB concerns me more than players like Seb, Kent, Lonie and Dunny et al due to the higher investment in the draft. It's always hugely disappointing for a club when a high DP doesn't meet expectation and so I really hope JB can get a wriggle on so we aren't calling JB a bust in a few years time.

The heat will be on JB this year, no doubt, because even though he is rated in best 22, he is capable of taking the next step and become elite, based on his DP ranking and current salary. As I've said before, if JB lifts his game the Saints will be a much better prospect in 2021, if he fails then I would expect him to ply his trade elsewhere in 2022.

Same goes for Seb Ross.

The point about this focus on St Kilda's midfield is that the strength of the engine room will determine how well the team performs, no room for passengers or "fair to average" players, and 2021 is when this team will be building to peak and make a strong effort to finish Top Four and a real chance to make history for the next few years.

[CQ SAINT]

Credibility, at least in my eyes is something JB and BM have in bucket loads. They have proven their footy knowledge to be astute over decades on this forum.

On the other hand IMHFO, CQ SAINT is totally lacking in credibility and proves that fact time and time again.

But what would you expect from a banana bender new to the real footy game.

But hey, as I said, that is only my opinion.

True and yet completely misguided as well. Your opinion is acknowledged and immediately disregarded. I must say though, what you lack in football knowledge, you certainly make up for with quaint old stories and of course, your opinion. Looking forward to your next post Saynta.

I get you are snaky with BM because he showed you up for your lack of knowledge but don't try that crap on with me.



I, on the other hand are not looking forward to your next inane rubbishy denigrating post. You should be ashamed to call yourself a St Kilda supporter, something you are definitely not in my eyes.

I'm sure you wouldn't be game to repeat your opinions on the Saints Vice Captain to his face.

Like you Saynta, BM is entitled to his opinion and can deflect my criticism of Seb any way he likes. I actually think it's very interesting but I see why he won't quote or stay on track with points. The flipping of context to create diversion from facts you too do is amusing too.

The fact remains, evidenced in that last article I posted and through his new role and initiatives with the ball, that after winning 2 B&F's and amassing a disposal count in the 30's for 4 years, Seb has had his wings clipped and been told to follow the better mids from the opposition around and when you get the ball, deliver it safely to someone else who can kick to a target properly. This has halved his disposal this far and he is better because of it.

Losers are the type of people that would revell in the 4 years of s*** disposal that Seb dished up and they would also completely miss the implications that the required role change has on Sebs efforts over the previous 4 years.
I have always said, he is a great athlete, a professional in the way he conducts himself and a loyal club man who does what is expected of him and more, im not going piss in anyone's pocket and crap on about how good he was or is though.
He is better now because he has support and doesn't feel like he has to do everything. He is still a s*** kick though. He just has to swim between the flags and maintain his solid B grade status, but the money is non negotiable. He is going to take a pay cut otherwise he will be stealing from Coffield, Clark and King. If he moves on, well I'll still be here, telling you how it really is. There's a block button somewhere on here, never used it or reported anyone myself, but your sensitivity levels may require you to give it a try. Weak as piss really but I whatever floats your boat. I can do this all day.

yawn. Just to let you know I won't be reading this post.

Classic Saynta. Inane to the end. Despite your occasional retorts, I was pretty certain you only read your own posts most of the time.

Yawn once again. Didn't think you would know what inane meant, but couldn't you at least be more original.

And you are wrong again. I read most posts but now consider yours not worth the time or effort. Cia baby.

Bit of advice though. If you want to slag off on saints champions, there are at least 17 other AFL sites.

I'll give you some advice. Don't call me baby. Like Old man, it is offensive and if I was a neutered old fool, I could complain and get you a holiday.
Ill slag off at who ever I see fit to slag off. Slag off, that's a beauty, did they teach you that in Tassie.

[saynta]

You can stick your advice where your mother never kissed you.

I think inferring I was a neutered old fool would also get you a holiday so for now....

[CQ SAINT]

You can stick your advice where your mother never kissed you.

I think inferring I was a neutered old fool would also get you a holiday so for now....

I wasn't inferring that. I can't spell inferring. But if the shoe fits, you can wear it.

[saynta]

You can stick your advice where your mother never kissed you.

I think inferring I was a neutered old fool would also get you a holiday so for now....

I wasn't inferring that. I can't spell inferring. But if the shoe fits, you can wear it.

[B.M]

Wow - that escalated really quickly!

For the record
One of those hero worshipping coaches in a B&F year for Seb was his midfield line coach and current senior coach
Brett Ratten

Last season it was clear that Seb was down on output
For two reasons
He had a new role in the team, as a defensive mid (basically swapping roles with Steele)
And he was down a bit on form which was obvious

Why did Ratten swap roles with Steele and Ross?
He saw enough upside in Steele that he could be more productive than Seb as the #1 target mid. Probably a better clearance player as he uses his size inside the contest better, and is a better user
That isn’t to say Ross was ineffective, or an ordinary. Just an area where the team could benefit and improve. Steele is a gun!
Ross was then entrusted with the big jobs on some of the games biggest stars. You don’t get those tasks if you can’t play!

He did some outstanding jobs (L.Neale), some good jobs (Martin/Bont) and occasionally was beaten (Kelly)

Overall he still managed to finish 10th in the B&F despite missing two games and having to tag which denied him of his main strength - he instinctively attacks and finds the footy.

If Seb Ross is in our second line of mids - we are in great shape
Because not many clubs have a dual B&F as a rotational mid.

[WellardSaint]

This thread has reached 7 pages.
I am in the group that thinks Seb is depth and could be squeezed out eventually.

However...
I think the club's brains trust hasn't devoted as much time to the Seb discussion as we have.
They've looked at each player and decided their respective worth, and best role, etc.

[saynta]

This thread has reached 7 pages.
I am in the group that thinks Seb is depth and could be squeezed out eventually.

However...
I think the club's brains trust hasn't devoted as much time to the Seb discussion as we have.
They've looked at each player and decided their respective worth, and best role, etc.

Maybe, but who really knows. No one on this forum, that's for sure. But that doesn't mean that you are not entitled to an opinion.

[B.M]

I don’t reckon either

I bet my bottom dollar he starts in the midfield R1

And when Crouch returns he might be a rotation (unless he tags)

But he’ll play every game he is fit to play.

I will laugh my arse off if he is named captain!

[CQ SAINT]

Wow - that escalated really quickly!

For the record
One of those hero worshipping coaches in a B&F year for Seb was his midfield line coach and current senior coach
Brett Ratten

Last season it was clear that Seb was down on output
For two reasons
He had a new role in the team, as a defensive mid (basically swapping roles with Steele)
And he was down a bit on form which was obvious

Why did Ratten swap roles with Steele and Ross?
He saw enough upside in Steele that he could be more productive than Seb as the #1 target mid. Probably a better clearance player as he uses his size inside the contest better, and is a better user
That isn’t to say Ross was ineffective, or an ordinary. Just an area where the team could benefit and improve. Steele is a gun!
Ross was then entrusted with the big jobs on some of the games biggest stars. You don’t get those tasks if you can’t play!

He did some outstanding jobs (L.Neale), some good jobs (Martin/Bont) and occasionally was beaten (Kelly)

Overall he still managed to finish 10th in the B&F despite missing two games and having to tag which denied him of his main strength - he instinctively attacks and finds the footy.

If Seb Ross is in our second line of mids - we are in great shape
Because not many clubs have a dual B&F as a rotational mid.

lol. Yeah Ratten was there. If we wasn't, there wouldn't have been a change. Some of us observers were calling for the change a year earlier. Id be very surprised if he gave Ross heaps of votes.

I get what you are saying but can u actually say those things and keep a straight face.

We are going to take our dual b&f, 30 possession, go getting, club champion and change his role for this other bloke that can kick, mark and beat his opponent and run lots too. I mean who does that?

Its not because your B&F and stats are a farce Seb, really it's not, it will be just better for the team if you don't get it so much and let other guys kick it to our players down near the goals. OMG. You know, cause it's better if half your kicks don't end up as turnovers or rebounds and our players keep possession. Awesome, great talk, really positive, really strong, yeah nah, one game at a time.
LMFAO. Did you read the article.

Look it was a great move and we were instantly more effective in the middle and the turnaround from Seb was hardly noticed. His massive 30 possession game wasn't missed, we got better. Oh Jones helped but Steele was a revelation compared to Ross.

I'm glad he has found his flags, is swimming safe and letting the skillful guys do the little disposals thingy.

Anyway, I'm done on this and will revisit it later this year.

[The Billings Method]

I want to give our coach some credit. He spent 2020 transforming Seb into the type of player and role he is best suited to his strengths. The run with mid who can win his own ball. Seb can play alright. Late in the year his form was good, a revival brought on by a role much more aligned with his abilities. I think we'll see more of Seb in this role, taking over from what Geary used to do. Seb is an upgrade on Gears, purely from a playing sense.

All hail Ratts, a man who could become even more successful than his former boss, the angry ant, Clarkson. Like Ivan Reitman, I think he's a chenius, as Arny often said. Now, "Get to the chopper" and win that flag, Ratts!

[saynta]

I want to give our coach some credit. He spent 2020 transforming Seb into the type of player and role he is best suited to his strengths. The run with mid who can win his own ball. Seb can play alright. Late in the year his form was good, a revival brought on by a role much more aligned with his abilities. I think we'll see more of Seb in this role, taking over from what Geary used to do. Seb is an upgrade on Gears, purely from a playing sense.

All hail Ratts, a man who could become even more successful than his former boss, the angry ant, Clarkson. Like Ivan Reitman, I think he's a chenius, as Arny often said. Now, "Get to the chopper" and win that flag, Ratts!

Sebb was our best player in that final game against the ultimate flag winners. Never forget that.

[B.M]

Couple of questions

We were definitely more effective (or better)

Did Ryder make a difference?
Did Zac Jones make a difference?
Did Gresham going in make a difference?

While we are at let’s look at some other areas of improvement

Forward line
The introduction of King, Marshall and in particular Butler
Role playing ability of Geary

Backline
Growth of Coffield and Clark
Introduction of Dougal
Ben Longs shift to defender

We had a really good run with injuries (until bloody Ryder!)

You could probably just say
We were a far better side in 2020 and performed as such

And I seriously hope Ratten is little smarter and a far better communicator than the presumptuous and made up conversations you just posted?!

[CQ SAINT]

Couple of questions

We were definitely more effective (or better)

Did Ryder make a difference?
Did Zac Jones make a difference?
Did Gresham going in make a difference?

While we are at let’s look at some other areas of improvement

Forward line
The introduction of King, Marshall and in particular Butler
Role playing ability of Geary

Backline
Growth of Coffield and Clark
Introduction of Dougal
Ben Longs shift to defender

We had a really good run with injuries (until bloody Ryder!)

You could probably just say
We were a far better side in 2020 and performed as such

And I seriously hope Ratten is little smarter and a far better communicator than the presumptuous and made up conversations you just posted?!

the article implies that Ross, by his own admission could do more to bring other players into the play, he was just trying to kick the skin off it, was hitting his knee and shin a lot.
When he gets it 30 times and can't share it effectively, what chance do his team mates have.
We are better for a lot of reasons. Ross didn't get worse, he became more effective. That has been my point the whole time. Why, because his skill set is not up to that No1 midfielder role.

[Vortex]

Good point. Seb being named Captain is still a possibility.

[CQ SAINT]

Couple of questions

We were definitely more effective (or better)

Did Ryder make a difference?
Did Zac Jones make a difference?
Did Gresham going in make a difference?

While we are at let’s look at some other areas of improvement

Forward line
The introduction of King, Marshall and in particular Butler
Role playing ability of Geary

Backline
Growth of Coffield and Clark
Introduction of Dougal
Ben Longs shift to defender

We had a really good run with injuries (until bloody Ryder!)

You could probably just say
We were a far better side in 2020 and performed as such

And I seriously hope Ratten is little smarter and a far better communicator than the presumptuous and made up conversations you just posted?!

Ratten did'nt have the conversation with Seb about how he could improve. He got Lade the offence and forward line coach to do it.
I'm.thinking, just my opinion, he'd be the one complaining about the poor delivery.

After Bruce was let go and Butler and King entered the forward mix, then he would need better delivery into the 50.

[The Billings Method]

I can't imagine Ratts wouldn't have his fingerprints all over a major change of role for his vice captain and dual best and fairest winner. I'm sure Lade had plenty to do with the hands on stuff, but Ratts must have driven it, or at least had a major say in it.

Pure speculation on my part, as I wasn't a fly on the wall, it's just Ratts strikes me as the sort of bloke who is across most things that happen in his team.

[The_Dud]

I want to give our coach some credit. He spent 2020 transforming Seb into the type of player and role he is best suited to his strengths. The run with mid who can win his own ball. Seb can play alright. Late in the year his form was good, a revival brought on by a role much more aligned with his abilities. I think we'll see more of Seb in this role, taking over from what Geary used to do. Seb is an upgrade on Gears, purely from a playing sense.

All hail Ratts, a man who could become even more successful than his former boss, the angry ant, Clarkson. Like Ivan Reitman, I think he's a chenius, as Arny often said. Now, "Get to the chopper" and win that flag, Ratts!

Sebb was our best player in that final game against the ultimate flag winners. Never forget that.

Yep, best on, after Steele, Marshall, and a few others. We did kick 6.13 and lose by 5 goals, so it was a game right up his alley!

And it’s ‘Seb’ btw

[CQ SAINT]

I can't imagine Ratts wouldn't have his fingerprints all over a major change of role for his vice captain and dual best and fairest winner. I'm sure Lade had plenty to do with the hands on stuff, but Ratts must have driven it, or at least had a major say in it.

Pure speculation on my part, as I wasn't a fly on the wall, it's just Ratts strikes me as the sort of bloke who is across most things that happen in his team.

I agree. The article was more specific to Ross' skill deficiency and how he would become more effective.
I believe the move let Steele loose was Ratten's master plan.
He made the comment about poor skills not being tolerated at the end of 1
2019, got the job and it didn't take long for him to act and boy did he act.

[B.M]

Dud,

If you refuse to give Seb any credit, even when he obviously plays well, your views will not be taken seriously

Seb was one of only 3 players to get over 20poss in the final
Ross 25 and a goal, Steele 25 and Hannebery 20

Marshall had 16 but was beaten up in the centre square a few times by Nank.

He was named our best player

Surely you can at least give him credit for that?

Why do you hate him so much??

You know what
He’s done a few things we’ll never ever do
He’s been a dual club champion, he’s played 100+ games and he’s Captained the club.
A very small percentage of players can say they have done the same!

[B.M]

Might it say more about Steel’s abilities than Sebs inabilities?

I don’t think myself or Saynta or Any other rational poster are not suggesting Steele had a better year in 2020 and is at this point in time a better player! He’s obviously a gun!!

That doesn’t mean that Seb can’t play, on the contrary his record speaks for itself!

You don’t become a leader of an AFL club, the best player (at a certain point in time) at an AFL club, a probable 200 game player at an AFL club
If you cannot play!!!

I’m still not sure why you don’t understand this... it’s like arguing that Shane Watson couldn’t play cricket because Michael Clarke was a better bat... that still doesn’t alter the fact that in 2011 & 2012 Watson won 2 Allan Border Medals

[The_Dud]

Dud,

If you refuse to give Seb any credit, even when he obviously plays well, your views will not be taken seriously

Seb was one of only 3 players to get over 20poss in the final
Ross 25 and a goal, Steele 25 and Hannebery 20

Marshall had 16 but was beaten up in the centre square a few times by Nank.

He was named our best player

Surely you can at least give him credit for that?

Why do you hate him so much??

You know what
He’s done a few things we’ll never ever do
He’s been a dual club champion, he’s played 100+ games and he’s Captained the club.
A very small percentage of players can say they have done the same!

BM,

All I said was he wasn’t BOG like some are trying to say, Steele was clearly better, not even debatable, but Seb was in the best. (And should we start the discussion about him being in the best but the team struggling and kicking 6.13, just like so many times in the mediocre Richo era?)

He was also 2nd in the team for clangers, a problem some on here are correctly trying to highlight as being a major flaw in his game.

Steele, Crouch, DH, Clark, Jones and Gresh are ahead of him in the midfield, as they all have something to offer more than Seb, whether that’s clearance/contested ball, speed, or foot skills. Seb isn’t number 1 or 2 in any of those categories (provided everyone is fit).

Then there are the likes of Hill, Billings, Coff and Long who can also roam around the ground and are ahead of Seb in those positions too.

Never said he shouldn’t be picked, and he inevitably will due to injuries, but he is nothing more than depth at this point in a good team. He doesn’t excel anywhere and he doesn’t hurt the opposition. High floor, low ceiling.

I also don’t think you’ve specifically addressed the correlation between the team having their best year in almost a decade and Seb’s drop off? Connected or just a coincidence?

I don’t hate him (that would be ridiculous), but I can see he is clearly not the kind of player to take us to our next flag.

[B.M]

He’ll be picked before any injuries because he’s a good player.

Yes, we were beaten by Richmond. We did kick 6:13 but what if we kicked 13:6 instead. Was it Sebs fault we lost, or were there worse players??

Question
Has Seb never played well in a victory by StKilda?

[B.M]

Yes I did address the reasons for our improvement

You must’ve missed the post, so I’ll briefly summarise

Insert
Ryder, Butler, Jones, Howard, Hill, King

Growth from
Steele, Clarke, Clarke

Roles played by
Geary, Marshall, Battle, Ross

Very few injuries