I believe the delisting of Savage is a mistake.

[CQ SAINT]

For someone regarded as a great kick, he rarely hits targets when it counts. Long bombs are a remnant of the Richardson era and have no place in the current set-up. Ratten , when he took over, expressed a desire to have more players who could use the ball effectively. That is why Savage got replaced by Paton.

Not so ... Savage actually hit the target by foot with very high efficiency.

And the perception that he blindly bombed the ball under Richo (and that Richo would instruct players to do that) is false.

Savage had elite Disposal efficiency - 83% plus in 2019 over 22 games - is amazing given that he mostly kicks the ball - I mean, he kicked the ball close to 14 times on average and only handballed around 5 times on average in his 22 games over 2019.
Savage had elite speed (37.1 km/hr) and was an elite user of the ball by foot - but Paton is younger, and if it came to who you'd keep and let go, logically Paton is the keeper.

While Sav's speed and skill by foot was very good, how did he go defensively? His efficiency was measure by an effective kick, usually to a contested situation, not necessarily to our advantage. This is a fact that was bought up in his reviews year after year. Some years were better than others but his efficiency was consistent.
All the stats in the world won't change the fact that he was poor defensively. A major change in our defence since he went out of favour.
He was a sweeper by design, not a defender and not accountable when the ball was in the hands of the opposition.

[samoht]

While Sav's speed and skill by foot was very good, how did he go defensively? His efficiency was measure by an effective kick, usually to a contested situation, not necessarily to our advantage. This is a fact that was bought up in his reviews year after year. Some years were better than others but his efficiency was consistent.
All the stats in the world won't change the fact that he was poor defensively. A major change in our defence since he went out of favour.
He was a sweeper by design, not a defender and not accountable when the ball was in the hands of the opposition.

Now we might be getting somewhere.
I'm not saying he was the total package - his defensive side might be his big let down. I agree.

But, let's not ignore or downplay the qualities that he had - that's all I'm saying.
He was elite in a lot of areas.

A poster earlier said he bombed the ball and was wasteful under Richo's game plan (which was to bomb the ball) - this was not the case.

[CQ SAINT]

While Sav's speed and skill by foot was very good, how did he go defensively? His efficiency was measure by an effective kick, usually to a contested situation, not necessarily to our advantage. This is a fact that was bought up in his reviews year after year. Some years were better than others but his efficiency was consistent.
All the stats in the world won't change the fact that he was poor defensively. A major change in our defence since he went out of favour.
He was a sweeper by design, not a defender and not accountable when the ball was in the hands of the opposition.

Now we might be getting somewhere.
I'm not saying he was the total package - his defensive side might be his big let down. I agree.

But, let's not ignore or downplay the qualities that he had - that's all I'm saying.
.

Fair call. But Aussie Jones was an elite kick and makes Savage look like an amateur.

[samoht]

Fair call. But Aussie Jones was an elite kick and makes Savage look like an amateur.

Aussie Jones had the rare ability to hang onto the ball and run sideways, backwards or around players if need be and draw a lead. He also played through the midfield.

I was reacting to a poster earlier who said he bombed the ball and was wasteful under Richo's go-to game plan (which was to bomb the ball, presumably) - this was not the case.

By the way, if you kick the ball to contests (or bombing it away), you're not going to end up with 83% DE - it'd be closer to 50/50 (logically)?

[CQ SAINT]

Fair call. But Aussie Jones was an elite kick and makes Savage look like an amateur.

Aussie Jones had the rare ability to hang onto the ball and run sideways, backwards or around players if need be and draw a lead. He also played through the midfield.

I was reacting to a poster earlier who said he bombed the ball and was wasteful under Richo's go-to game plan (which was to bomb the ball, presumably) - this was not the case.

By the way, if you kick the ball to contests (or bombing it away), you're not going to end up with 83% DE - it'd be closer to 50/50 (logically)?

If across your career you average about 10 effective disposals and 420 metres gained, it stands to reason that, by definition, the majority of your effective kicks are over 40m and to a 50/50 contest, and less likely to be under 40m and to the intended target.
Of course it is debatable but having watched the bulk of his career at the Saints I'm 83% certain I am right.

[samoht]

If across your career you average about 10 effective disposals and 420 metres gained, it stands to reason that, by definition, the majority of your effective kicks are over 40m and to a 50/50 contest, and less likely to be under 40m and to the intended target.
Of course it is debatable but having watched the bulk of his career at the Saints I'm 83% certain I am right.

Do you mean 10 effective kicks?
Because he in fact averaged 18 possessions over his 11 year career (2009-2020) and so 14 of them would have been effective, going by his disposal efficiency.
Not bad, considering most of his possessions are/were by foot.

[Yorkeys]

Quite a few of Shane's possessions were against Saint Kilda when he played for Hawthorn. Can we discount them.

[samoht]

Quite a few of Shane's possessions were against Saint Kilda when he played for Hawthorn. Can we discount them.

I remember one game in particular where his kicking was a feature and he destroyed us from the half-back line.
I'm just trying to be fair to him.

[shadrock]

At 29 years old he still has at least 2 years left in him at the top level. We are now in the premiership window so a player like Sav could be very valuable. I can see why they did what the did but I would have rather they paid out McKenzie and kept Sav.

So, you know more than the club's list management team, do you?

In this instance I do yes.

get a grip.

[SaintPelican66]

At 29 years old he still has at least 2 years left in him at the top level. We are now in the premiership window so a player like Sav could be very valuable. I can see why they did what the did but I would have rather they paid out McKenzie and kept Sav.

So, you know more than the club's list management team, do you?

In this instance I do yes.

get a grip.

So they get everything right do they?

[CQ SAINT]

If across your career you average about 10 effective disposals and 420 metres gained, it stands to reason that, by definition, the majority of your effective kicks are over 40m and to a 50/50 contest, and less likely to be under 40m and to the intended target.
Of course it is debatable but having watched the bulk of his career at the Saints I'm 83% certain I am right.

Do you mean 10 effective kicks?
Because he in fact averaged 18 possessions over his 11 year career (2009-2020) and so 14 of them would have been effective, going by his disposal efficiency.
Not bad, considering most of his possessions are/were by foot.

Yes, kicks is clearly what I meant. 11.25 average, so roughly 10 effective kicks, mostly uncontested in a career where our backline was being peppered, and 5 effective handballs, usually under pressure.
Not a bad footballer, by no means elite though. Worth more than our second pick we activated by delisting him but not our first.
Let's not oversell what he had though. He was average overall and Ratts, DOS and Rath would be all over his stat's and videos and decided to delist him. Then no one else wanted him.
I was a fan by the way but I'm very happy to move on.

[sunsaint]

I think people are also forgetting when he would sweep around and take handballs to kick the long goal from well outside the 50

[ace]

Quite a few of Shane's possessions were against Saint Kilda when he played for Hawthorn. Can we discount them.

Where he was played on a wing not as a small defender.

[ace]

Savage has been replaced by Frawley.
Savage was brought into the team when Carlisle went AWOL (well he actually did have permission).
Clavarino and Joyce were not trusted to replace Carlisle.
They have been banished to the rookie list and told get better or go.
The team was switched around to bring Savage in as the replacement - he was the preferred back up.
Now Frawley has been recruited Frawley becomes the guy who comes in when a backup is needed for a tall defender.

The club clearly had Frawley locked in when they told Savage sorry but no contract.

AFL is vicious employment.
By the time everything is over roughly 150 guys will be looking for normal employment out of roughly 800.
The average life expectancy in the AFL is between 5 and 6 years (somewhere between 17% and 20% get delisted (and not retaken) or retire.
At least it pays really well.
Rookie gets minimum $80,000 plus $4,000 match payment 2021 B.C.
BC = Before Covid)

https://www.aflplayers.com.au/wp-conten ... 22-CBA.pdf page 71
https://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/a ... -with-afl/

[Impatient Sainter]

We have plenty of cover across half back and the fact that no one else has picked him up is testament Gags has made the right call. Lets move on.

[CQ SAINT]

I think people are also forgetting when he would sweep around and take handballs to kick the long goal from well outside the 50

I remember those. He missed plenty too. Unfortunately, they are the ones that are harder to forget from a bloke with 83% kicking efficiency.

[sunsaint]

I think people are also forgetting when he would sweep around and take handballs to kick the long goal from well outside the 50

I remember those. He missed plenty too. Unfortunately, they are the ones that are harder to forget from a bloke with 83% kicking efficiency.

maybe 4u...but he was one a very few on our list that could kick 55+
regardless and certainly not nit picking the point but over his career he was 63 - 48
at least he finished with a positive ledger

[CQ SAINT]

I think people are also forgetting when he would sweep around and take handballs to kick the long goal from well outside the 50

I remember those. He missed plenty too. Unfortunately, they are the ones that are harder to forget from a bloke with 83% kicking efficiency.

maybe 4u...but he was one a very few on our list that could kick 55+
regardless and certainly not nit picking the point but over his career he was 63 - 48
at least he finished with a positive ledger

56% on goal. Sound about right, but a long way from 83%. The kicking efficiency stat is a bit of a furphy.

[vacuous space]

By the way, if you kick the ball to contests (or bombing it away), you're not going to end up with 83% DE - it'd be closer to 50/50 (logically)?

A long kick to a 50/50 contest is registered as effective. Retention only matters on short-to-medium kicks. If you spend all day bombing it to 50/50 contests, your kicking efficiency will be 100%.

[To the top]

Geary. Frawley. McKenzie
Webster. Claravino. Roberton

The Sandringham back 6 given no injuries among Clark, Coffield, Long, Paton, Wilkie, Howard and Carlisle (so our first choice defenders)

Savage was surplus to needs (and compare his appetite for the contest with the likes of our first choice defenders, starting with Long)

St Kilda only entertained players expressing the desire to play at St Kilda - and we currently see players nominating St Kilda

And we added the “polish” to our mid field which was spoken to

Now luck with injuries

We have added Carlisle, Long (both in the Brownlow votes when we beat Richmond), Gresham, Ryder, Crouch and Higgins to the side we last put on the park

So that should fix our bottom 6, which was our Achilles heel

Mind you all sides will improve

So we need to improve more

That is down to our youth

[samoht]

repeated post

[samoht]

repeated post

[samoht]

By the way, if you kick the ball to contests (or bombing it away), you're not going to end up with 83% DE - it'd be closer to 50/50 (logically)?

A long kick to a 50/50 contest is registered as effective. Retention only matters on short-to-medium kicks. If you spend all day bombing it to 50/50 contests, your kicking efficiency will be 100%.

interesting - but, effective is not the same as efficient, is it?

DE = disposal efficiency?

Maybe he shouldn't have even been trusted to kick in the ball then ... if he's so poor at kicking ?

[CQ SAINT]

By the way, if you kick the ball to contests (or bombing it away), you're not going to end up with 83% DE - it'd be closer to 50/50 (logically)?

A long kick to a 50/50 contest is registered as effective. Retention only matters on short-to-medium kicks. If you spend all day bombing it to 50/50 contests, your kicking efficiency will be 100%.

interesting - but, effective is not the same as efficient, is it?

DE = disposal efficiency?

Maybe he shouldn't have even been trusted to kick in the ball then ... if he's so poor at kicking ?

Clutching at straws now mate.
Efficiency = Effectiveness.

He was fine kicking in, until Wilkie came along.

[saintbob]

Geary. Frawley. McKenzie
Webster. Claravino. Roberton

The Sandringham back 6 given no injuries among Clark, Coffield, Long, Paton, Wilkie, Howard and Carlisle (so our first choice defenders)

Savage was surplus to needs (and compare his appetite for the contest with the likes of our first choice defenders, starting with Long)

St Kilda only entertained players expressing the desire to play at St Kilda - and we currently see players nominating St Kilda

And we added the “polish” to our mid field which was spoken to

Now luck with injuries

We have added Carlisle, Long (both in the Brownlow votes when we beat Richmond), Gresham, Ryder, Crouch and Higgins to the side we last put on the park

So that should fix our bottom 6, which was our Achilles heel

Mind you all sides will improve

So we need to improve more

That is down to our youth

A fit Webster will push Long out of the best 22