I believe the delisting of Savage is a mistake.

[Joffa Burns]

I doubt we were ever seriously after Treloar. Too many questions about why he was leaving. Thinking that it was all because Buckley is an a*****le is naive.

At last someone with a bit of common sense.

The posters on here are full of rightful praise for our list management team, yet are falling over themselves looking for reasons why we didn't recruit Treloar.

If our guys wanted him, going on past performances, you would think they would have got the deal done.

The reality is more than likely they just weren't interested. And for good reason.

WRONG. The reality is that they did want him. Unfortunately they could not offload Dunstan, McKenzie and to a lesser extent Lonie. If they could have then there would have been enough room in the TPP and we would have traded for him.

Lonie didn’t have a contract so irrelevant to recruiting Treloar.

So the club was keen to bring in Treloar if they could offload two contracted players who are outside our best 22-25?

Wow, how did you work that one out captain obvious?

[SaintPelican66]

I doubt we were ever seriously after Treloar. Too many questions about why he was leaving. Thinking that it was all because Buckley is an a*****le is naive.

At last someone with a bit of common sense.

The posters on here are full of rightful praise for our list management team, yet are falling over themselves looking for reasons why we didn't recruit Treloar.

If our guys wanted him, going on past performances, you would think they would have got the deal done.

The reality is more than likely they just weren't interested. And for good reason.

WRONG. The reality is that they did want him. Unfortunately they could not offload Dunstan, McKenzie and to a lesser extent Lonie. If they could have then there would have been enough room in the TPP and we would have traded for him.

Lonie didn’t have a contract so irrelevant to recruiting Treloar.

So the club was keen to bring in Treloar if they could offload two contracted players who are outside our best 22-25?

Wow, how did you work that one out captain obvious?

My ITK source from the club told me.

[Ghost Like]

Who said we were trying to dump Ross apart from a few fake ITK's on this site. Certainly the saints admin weren't.

That's the sort of bulls*** posting posing as fact that makes trade week so unbearable on this forum

If you think the Saints weren't trying to dump Ross (and others' salaries) in a bid to get Treloar then you're even more blindly loyal and naïve than first thought. Very few players are off-limits. Who would've thought Treloar was treadeable on day 1 of trade period?

Of course St Kilda was never going to say - after they couldn't get it done - "look, we tried to get rid of a few players but other clubs wouldn't take their salary cost on because they're not worth what we're paying them".

How 'bout you look at it logically for once - a 27 yo - 2 time B & F winning midfielder - should walk into every other teams' midfield group. And yet - no takers. And that's for one of two reasons - either the skill-set doesn't hit the level and/or the cost to acquire that skill-set doesn't match the output.

There were no takers matty boy because he was never f****** offered and you can take that as read.

Gives me the s***s that certain posters who originally claimed that Seb was no good and should be traded , ..to the f****** drug cheats, no less.. ...have gotten their knickers in a knot ever since he started winning trevor barker medals and continue to denigrate him to this day. Never given any praise on here, ...or votes ...despite coming in the top ten in the B and F once again.

Anyway, Treloar has issues and the saints were aware of them and not interested.

I take your point but, blind loyalty to Seb is unhealthy. For the record, I thought Seb was awful in patches this year until given a role and then was largely quite effective (except that awful night on Tim Kelly). In fact, Seb was heaps better towards to the end of the year and played a good 1st final against the Dogs.

That said - I don't see where there's a regular spot for him in 2021. Crouch replaces him and the best I can see for Seb is that Hannebery is injured - then he comes in as cover.

TBH Saintmatt, I do see a spot for him as a defensive mid. He's the endurance and the discipline. He's not an attacking mid as he's one sided.
That said, Sinclair is his challenge but I'm not sure Sinclair can find it enough. Again, it's that St Kilda conundrum that would not be if we could combine their best attributes.
It is a very good St Kilda side if the debate about best 22 includes leaving out a dual B&F & a heart & soul skipper.

[Ghost Like]

I doubt we were ever seriously after Treloar. Too many questions about why he was leaving. Thinking that it was all because Buckley is an a*****le is naive.

At last someone with a bit of common sense.

The posters on here are full of rightful praise for our list management team, yet are falling over themselves looking for reasons why we didn't recruit Treloar.

If our guys wanted him, going on past performances, you would think they would have got the deal done.

The reality is more than likely they just weren't interested. And for good reason.

WRONG. The reality is that they did want him. Unfortunately they could not offload Dunstan, McKenzie and to a lesser extent Lonie. If they could have then there would have been enough room in the TPP and we would have traded for him.

Lonie didn’t have a contract so irrelevant to recruiting Treloar.

So the club was keen to bring in Treloar if they could offload two contracted players who are outside our best 22-25?

Wow, how did you work that one out captain obvious?

My ITK source from the club told me.

Again, what does "Goodbye" mean in your world?

[Joffa Burns]

I doubt we were ever seriously after Treloar. Too many questions about why he was leaving. Thinking that it was all because Buckley is an a*****le is naive.

At last someone with a bit of common sense.

The posters on here are full of rightful praise for our list management team, yet are falling over themselves looking for reasons why we didn't recruit Treloar.

If our guys wanted him, going on past performances, you would think they would have got the deal done.

The reality is more than likely they just weren't interested. And for good reason.

WRONG. The reality is that they did want him. Unfortunately they could not offload Dunstan, McKenzie and to a lesser extent Lonie. If they could have then there would have been enough room in the TPP and we would have traded for him.

Lonie didn’t have a contract so irrelevant to recruiting Treloar.

So the club was keen to bring in Treloar if they could offload two contracted players who are outside our best 22-25?

Wow, how did you work that one out captain obvious?

My ITK source from the club told me.

You make teddyrayflamingojames look like a real ITK

[Ghost Like]

I doubt we were ever seriously after Treloar. Too many questions about why he was leaving. Thinking that it was all because Buckley is an a*****le is naive.

At last someone with a bit of common sense.

The posters on here are full of rightful praise for our list management team, yet are falling over themselves looking for reasons why we didn't recruit Treloar.

If our guys wanted him, going on past performances, you would think they would have got the deal done.

The reality is more than likely they just weren't interested. And for good reason.

WRONG. The reality is that they did want him. Unfortunately they could not offload Dunstan, McKenzie and to a lesser extent Lonie. If they could have then there would have been enough room in the TPP and we would have traded for him.

Lonie didn’t have a contract so irrelevant to recruiting Treloar.

So the club was keen to bring in Treloar if they could offload two contracted players who are outside our best 22-25?

Wow, how did you work that one out captain obvious?

My ITK source from the club told me.

You make teddyrayflamingojames look like a real ITK

Very true JB & the Mods impotent.

[asiu]

haha

was only thinking this arvo
that he probably is/was Ted as well

[vacuous space]

You make teddyrayflamingojames look like a real ITK

I won't stand for this ParkeySainter erasure.

[saynta]

I doubt we were ever seriously after Treloar. Too many questions about why he was leaving. Thinking that it was all because Buckley is an a*****le is naive.

At last someone with a bit of common sense.

The posters on here are full of rightful praise for our list management team, yet are falling over themselves looking for reasons why we didn't recruit Treloar.

If our guys wanted him, going on past performances, you would think they would have got the deal done.

The reality is more than likely they just weren't interested. And for good reason.

WRONG. The reality is that they did want him. Unfortunately they could not offload Dunstan, McKenzie and to a lesser extent Lonie. If they could have then there would have been enough room in the TPP and we would have traded for him.

Lonie didn’t have a contract so irrelevant to recruiting Treloar.

So the club was keen to bring in Treloar if they could offload two contracted players who are outside our best 22-25?

Wow, how did you work that one out captain obvious?

My ITK source from the club told me.

More f****** rubbish.

[Joffa Burns]

I doubt we were ever seriously after Treloar. Too many questions about why he was leaving. Thinking that it was all because Buckley is an a*****le is naive.

At last someone with a bit of common sense.

The posters on here are full of rightful praise for our list management team, yet are falling over themselves looking for reasons why we didn't recruit Treloar.

If our guys wanted him, going on past performances, you would think they would have got the deal done.

The reality is more than likely they just weren't interested. And for good reason.

WRONG. The reality is that they did want him. Unfortunately they could not offload Dunstan, McKenzie and to a lesser extent Lonie. If they could have then there would have been enough room in the TPP and we would have traded for him.

Lonie didn’t have a contract so irrelevant to recruiting Treloar.

So the club was keen to bring in Treloar if they could offload two contracted players who are outside our best 22-25?

Wow, how did you work that one out captain obvious?

My ITK source from the club told me.

You make teddyrayflamingojames look like a real ITK

Very true JB & the Mods impotent.

You misspelt important

[SaintPelican66]

I doubt we were ever seriously after Treloar. Too many questions about why he was leaving. Thinking that it was all because Buckley is an a*****le is naive.

At last someone with a bit of common sense.

The posters on here are full of rightful praise for our list management team, yet are falling over themselves looking for reasons why we didn't recruit Treloar.

If our guys wanted him, going on past performances, you would think they would have got the deal done.

The reality is more than likely they just weren't interested. And for good reason.

WRONG. The reality is that they did want him. Unfortunately they could not offload Dunstan, McKenzie and to a lesser extent Lonie. If they could have then there would have been enough room in the TPP and we would have traded for him.

Lonie didn’t have a contract so irrelevant to recruiting Treloar.

So the club was keen to bring in Treloar if they could offload two contracted players who are outside our best 22-25?

Wow, how did you work that one out captain obvious?

My ITK source from the club told me.

Again, what does "Goodbye" mean in your world?

They didn’t want me back at Bigfoory. Ever since Joffaboy became top dog over there, he runs the place with an iron fist

[Saintmatt]

I doubt we were ever seriously after Treloar. Too many questions about why he was leaving. Thinking that it was all because Buckley is an a*****le is naive.

At last someone with a bit of common sense.

The posters on here are full of rightful praise for our list management team, yet are falling over themselves looking for reasons why we didn't recruit Treloar.

If our guys wanted him, going on past performances, you would think they would have got the deal done.

The reality is more than likely they just weren't interested. And for good reason.

I'm certainly not falling over myself looking for a reason we didn't recruit Treloar. But I do know that Treloar would've been a significant upgrade on both Ross and Dunstan and for that reason alone - we would've at the very least explored how we could've got that done. That's just called logic.

[ace]

According to AFl.com.au St Kilda has delisted Savage twice.

St Kilda

Ryan Abbott (del)
Logan Austin (del)
Jack Bell (del)
Nathan Brown (ret)
Nick Hind (trd)
Doulton Langlands (del)
Jonathon Marsh (del)
Jack Mayo (del)
Shane Savage (del)
Matthew Parker (del)
Ed Phillips (del)
Shane Savage (del)

[meher baba]

As I have now posted on the thread about the argy bargy between the Pies and the Dogs over the Treloar contract, there were clearly a number of issues with Treloar and I continue to strongly suspect - on the basis of absolutely no ITK information whatsoever - that our club made a conscious decision not to chase him.

That's my view, which other posters can assess against the assertion by the poster who calls him/her/itself SaintPelican66 that his/her/its ITK source says that the club was definitely after Treloar and would have gone for him if they could have offloaded some underperformers.

Professional clubs like Collingwood don't ship out highly-talented players like Treloar on a whim.

[samoht]

For someone regarded as a great kick, he rarely hits targets when it counts. Long bombs are a remnant of the Richardson era and have no place in the current set-up. Ratten , when he took over, expressed a desire to have more players who could use the ball effectively. That is why Savage got replaced by Paton.

Not so ... Savage actually hit the target by foot with very high efficiency.

And the perception that he blindly bombed the ball under Richo (and that Richo would instruct players to do that) is false.

Savage had elite Disposal efficiency - 83% plus in 2019 over 22 games - is amazing given that he mostly kicks the ball - I mean, he kicked the ball close to 14 times on average and only handballed around 5 times on average in his 22 games over 2019.
Savage had elite speed (37.1 km/hr) and was an elite user of the ball by foot - but Paton is younger, and if it came to who you'd keep and let go, logically Paton is the keeper.

[meher baba]

Not so ... Savage actually hit the target by foot with very high efficiency.

And the perception that he blindly bombed the ball under Richo (and that Richo would instruct players to do that) is false.

Savage elite Disposal efficiency - 83% plus in 2019 - is amazing given that he mostly kicks the ball - he kicked the ball close to 14 times on average and only handballed around 5 times on average in his 22 games over 2019.

This is a case where the stats simply do not tell the right story. A player with the kicking range of Savage who truly has "elite" disposal efficiency would almost certainly never have been put on the trade table and, if he was, would be subject to intense bidding war among other clubs.

Like many others, Savage is no doubt highly accurate in chipping the ball around the backline, but his long kicks have never been well-targeted: quite often he doesn't even seem to be aiming at anyone in particular.

[samoht]

Not so ... Savage actually hit the target by foot with very high efficiency.

And the perception that he blindly bombed the ball under Richo (and that Richo would instruct players to do that) is false.

Savage elite Disposal efficiency - 83% plus in 2019 - is amazing given that he mostly kicks the ball - he kicked the ball close to 14 times on average and only handballed around 5 times on average in his 22 games over 2019.

This is a case where the stats simply do not tell the right story. A player with the kicking range of Savage who truly has "elite" disposal efficiency would almost certainly never have been put on the trade table and, if he was, would be subject to intense bidding war among other clubs.

Like many others, Savage is no doubt highly accurate in chipping the ball around the backline, but his long kicks have never been well-targeted: quite often he doesn't even seem to be aiming at anyone in particular.

83% ... and he kicked the ball 14/19 times in 2019 .... that is definitely ELITE by foot.
He probably misdirected one of his 5 handballs.

His metres gained wasn't too shabby, either.

[saynta]

I doubt we were ever seriously after Treloar. Too many questions about why he was leaving. Thinking that it was all because Buckley is an a*****le is naive.

At last someone with a bit of common sense.

The posters on here are full of rightful praise for our list management team, yet are falling over themselves looking for reasons why we didn't recruit Treloar.

If our guys wanted him, going on past performances, you would think they would have got the deal done.

The reality is more than likely they just weren't interested. And for good reason.

I'm certainly not falling over myself looking for a reason we didn't recruit Treloar. But I do know that Treloar would've been a significant upgrade on both Ross and Dunstan and for that reason alone - we would've at the very least explored how we could've got that done. That's just called logic.

You did see, didn't you that the filth have now reneged on how much of Treloar's contract they will be paying for the next 5 years.

As i said before but in not so many words, our recruiters are not stupid.

Your views on this subject are yours alone and not shared by me or would it seem, the St Kilda football club.

[meher baba]

83% ... and he kicked the ball 14/19 times in 2019 .... that is definitely ELITE by foot.
He probably misdirected one of his 5 handballs.

His metres gained wasn't too shabby, either.

So why was he a fringe player at the Saints and not in demand from any other club?

If he was as good as you say is indicated by his stats, we should have been able to get a first round pick for him.

I don't entirely agree with the argument that there are "lies, damn lies, and statistics", but there's something in it.

[meher baba]

You did see, didn't you that the filth have now reneged on how much of Treloar's contract they will be paying for the next 5 years.

As i said before but in not so many words, our recruiters are not stupid.

Your views on this subject are yours alone and not shared by me or would it seem, the St Kilda football club.

Have the Pies reneged, or did the Dogs recruiters run out of time to do due diligence and decided to take Treloar without a firm undertaking from the Pies?

I'm keeping an open mind.

[samoht]

83% ... and he kicked the ball 14/19 times in 2019 .... that is definitely ELITE by foot.
He probably misdirected one of his 5 handballs.

His metres gained wasn't too shabby, either.

So why was he a fringe player at the Saints and not in demand from any other club?

If he was as good as you say is indicated by his stats, we should have been able to get a first round pick for him.

I don't entirely agree with the argument that there are "lies, damn lies, and statistics", but there's something in it.

Paton and Long have careers ahead of them and this made him a "fringe" player - but Savage had a lot going for him and was more than useful.
Other clubs might be looking at his age - 30 - or asking why he was out of favour at St Kilda?

[meher baba]

Paton and Long have careers ahead of them and this made him a "fringe" player - but Savage had a lot going for him and was more than useful.
Other clubs might be looking at his age - 30 - or asking why he was out of favour at St Kilda?

I agree that Savage is a handy player. What I don't agree with is the proposition that his kicking accuracy is "elite." It simply isn''t the case, and never has been. A guy on the half back line with the ability to deliver the ball with accuracy over the distance that Savage can kick the ball would be an incredibly dangerous weapon and thereby one of the superstars of the game.

Savage can kick the ball further just about anyone else, but his delivery with his long kicks isn't accurate in the way that really counts: ie, in terms of creating space to enable forwards to win contests. I have watched him play umpteen times on TV and several times in the flesh, and unfortunately he simply doesn't do this with any regularity.

Anyway, we've both said our piece on this and will have to agree to disagree.

[SaintPelican66]

As I have now posted on the thread about the argy bargy between the Pies and the Dogs over the Treloar contract, there were clearly a number of issues with Treloar and I continue to strongly suspect - on the basis of absolutely no ITK information whatsoever - that our club made a conscious decision not to chase him.

That's my view, which other posters can assess against the assertion by the poster who calls him/her/itself SaintPelican66 that his/her/its ITK source says that the club was definitely after Treloar and would have gone for him if they could have offloaded some underperformers.

Professional clubs like Collingwood don't ship out highly-talented players like Treloar on a whim.

One thing I can guarantee you is Collingwood are not a professional club. That is very clear to everyone in the industry. The other thing my ITK friend can guarantee is if we could have traded / salary dumped at least 2 of Dunstan, Webster or Roberton we would definitely have traded for Treloar. In fact Treloar informed us that we were his preferred club. Make of that what you will.

[meher baba]

In fact Treloar informed us that we were his preferred club. Make of that what you will.

That was widely reported at the time, although I only recall seeing it published as a rumour rather than as a statement attributed to Treloar or his manager.

Lethlean's public, on the record response was that we weren't interested because we couldn't fit him in our cap, unless the Crouch deal fell over. And then the Crouch deal got finalised well before the end of the trade period, and that seems to have been it.

At the time, you and a number of other wannabe ITKs suggested Lethlean's statement was a smokescreen. Of course that was possible, but - given that there is no evidence whatsoever that we ever made a strong play for Treloar - it's surely far more possible that Lethlean was telling the absolute truth: ie, we were never interested. Furthermore, if we weren't interested for a reason such as that we have concerns about Treloar's personality or about the sort of deal that Collingwood would expect for him, we were never going to say that publicly: we were always going to say something like "great player, but we can't afford him."

The idea that we would have gone for him if we could have firstly offloaded ourselves of some fringe players is the sort of assertion that is impossible to disprove, so someone purporting to have inside knowledge can happily put it forward with no risk of being contradicted by any facts.

I could similarly argue that, if we had a huge amount of extra room in our cap, and had never recruited Max King, and had been able to persuade Cameron that Sorrento was just as nice a place to relocate to as the Great Ocean Road or wherever, we would have been in the market for him too. Every club is always theoretically in the market for every top notch available player, if the circumstances are right.

But, apart from the claims by various self-proclaimed ITKs on SS and BF, there was never any convincing evidence that we were seriously interested in Treloar. So, on that basis, I'm inclined to take Lethlean at his word.

[samoht]

I agree that Savage is a handy player. What I don't agree with is the proposition that his kicking accuracy is "elite." It simply isn''t the case, and never has been. A guy on the half back line with the ability to deliver the ball with accuracy over the distance that Savage can kick the ball would be an incredibly dangerous weapon and thereby one of the superstars of the game.

Savage can kick the ball further just about anyone else, but his delivery with his long kicks isn't accurate in the way that really counts: ie, in terms of creating space to enable forwards to win contests. I have watched him play umpteen times on TV and several times in the flesh, and unfortunately he simply doesn't do this with any regularity.

Anyway, we've both said our piece on this and will have to agree to disagree.

He's a handy player, but the stats suggest he's elite.
And I agree that there's more to stats than meets the eye.

And the fact that he can kick the ball long (or longer than most) doesn't mean that he has to every time - no player does that.
But given his high kick to handball ratio, his metres gained and his 83% DE - he's an elite kick. It's not hard to deduce and we don't need to divine that - it's pretty obvious that he is.
He also had some other elite qualities, like leg speed.

Here's some highlights ...