The Billings Dilemma

[whiskers3614]

[*]Moods reckons he is on $800,000 a year which would make him one of our most highly paid players yet he finishes only 11th in our B&F. That is the dilemma. He just doesn’t have enough impact on games.

had a lot more than the bloke on $900k

This is our weakness going forward. Our 3 highest paid players in Hannebery, Hill and Billings,on performance, do not deserve the money they are on, are not our best 3 players on the list and are not going to be. Steele is our best player now and should be our highest paid, Marshall is on his way up there, Clark and Coffield will pass them and so will King.

I can agree with most of that,
What I can't stand is those that bag Billings but consider getting the other two a master-stroke!

[bangaulegend]

[*]Moods reckons he is on $800,000 a year which would make him one of our most highly paid players yet he finishes only 11th in our B&F. That is the dilemma. He just doesn’t have enough impact on games.

had a lot more than the bloke on $900k

This is our weakness going forward. Our 3 highest paid players in Hannebery, Hill and Billings,on performance, do not deserve the money they are on, are not our best 3 players on the list and are not going to be. Steele is our best player now and should be our highest paid, Marshall is on his way up there, Clark and Coffield will pass them and so will King.

Complacency breeds contempt I'm on easy street getting well paid not matter what I deliver. Billings & Hill are still very good players & Hanners best days are behind him IMO. When you're on big coin you need to be setting the example for the rest of the team but unfortunately that not the case this year the lesser paid players are the ones getting the job done & it needs to be an even spread & those blokes on the big dollars need to give a lot more to get us to the level where we can be a serious threat as I said IMO

[Scollop]

Agree with the OP, very dangerous high half forward was fantastic in this role in 2017/18 from memory.
The club needs to add class and skill, not trade it out.

You salivate over a forward line of King, Marshall, Membrey, Butler, Billings, Higgins, Gresham with others rotating through.

Not every player can be as tough as Geary & Webster, but how many clubs would put a hard tag on Geary or Webster.

Billings style is not physical, it's not his nature but he takes his turn and puts his head over it when he has to and is quite courageous when spoiling or backing back with the flight in a marking contest particularly in defence.

People expect a champion because he's a classy mover and was pick 3 which IMO is unrealistic.
He's good player who should play 250 AFL games, and hopefully all for the Saints.
He's a win at #3 IMO regardless of who was #4.

It's guys like Billings that add the cream when you have built your list to challenger status.
I liken him to Titch Edwards who was a good solid player but reached A grade status when Richmond built a premiership list and he was able to rotate forward/mid and "get off the chain" and use his gifts.

Great post Joffa. I get frustrated with Billings at times but every now and then he reminds us how classy he is with his ball use. People confuse competitiveness with physicality. As you said he is not a ‘physical’ player but he certainly loves playing a role in a winning team. His willingness to run and create space and be a marking option is ‘how’ he demonstrates his competitiveness. Hill is similar.

People seem to focus on his quiet games and choose to ignore his good games. He's still a very good player in my view, and with a coach who values players with foot skills I expect he's going nowhere

His team mates need to use him as much as they use Hill. Billings is not perfect but no one is.

[Ghost Like]

People need to stop comparing him to Bontompelli.

Spot on. People bemoan the fact he's not the Bont or Cripps but lucky for us he's not some of the ones selected between those players.
Kolodashnij(?)
Scharenberg
Aish
Salem
McDonald
Lennon
I'll take JB before any of them.

[Laurie]

So if Billings name was mentioned as part of a trade deal involving Taranto would it be considered ?
Personally give me Taranto anyday.

[spert]

The kind of player who you would hope turns it on in big games, but didn't this season- just went missing. As a middle size player, he needs some of Kent's hardness at the contest to complete his game, but it's not going to happen.

[6621104]

Anyone who saw the ferocity of the prelim and grand finals should understand that every player needs to be able to take the pressure, over the last decade space on the ground has shrunk, pressure greater, more players around the ball so a fumble under that sort of pressure equals a turn over. Sadly it looks as though Jack can cut it when the regular season rolls on, but in the big games not so. Have we reached the era when you play when the opposition is not so good to allow another to rest, but sit out when the heat is on? If so then Jack will be worth a spot.

[Saintmatt]

People need to stop comparing him to Bontompelli.

Spot on. People bemoan the fact he's not the Bont or Cripps but lucky for us he's not some of the ones selected between those players.
Kolodashnij(?)
Scharenberg
Aish
Salem
McDonald
Lennon
I'll take JB before any of them.

Spot. Fvcking. On.

[Scollop]

Anyone who saw the ferocity of the prelim and grand finals should understand that every player needs to be able to take the pressure, over the last decade space on the ground has shrunk, pressure greater, more players around the ball so a fumble under that sort of pressure equals a turn over. Sadly it looks as though Jack can cut it when the regular season rolls on, but in the big games not so. Have we reached the era when you play when the opposition is not so good to allow another to rest, but sit out when the heat is on? If so then Jack will be worth a spot.

You don’t wish any harm on any player, but it was fantastic seeing players with eyes only on the ball and those sickening clashes come to mind where X Dursma was knocked out in the prelim against Blicavs and also when Danger K.O’d Vlastuin from Richmond in the GF.

I’ve seen Jack show courage at times in a marking contest but I’d have to agree with you that he hears footsteps when it comes to loose groundballs or when he is exposed with a handball receive. He developed some shocking habits under Richo and he wasn’t pulled up enough times when it happened.

If you keep your eyes on the footy, you will avoid getting hit or copping a crunching tackle. Billings needs to trust himself and work out ways to adapt/shrug off/baulk in those moments. You only do it in games if you’ve practiced it repeatedly on the training track.

Guys like Bolton and Edwards from Richmond and the mids in the Cats line up like Duncan, Parfit and Menegola seem to work out what they’ll do with the footy after they’ve successfully avoided a tackle. Clark and Gresh are good too

[whiskers3614]

Anyone who saw the ferocity of the prelim and grand finals should understand that every player needs to be able to take the pressure, over the last decade space on the ground has shrunk, pressure greater, more players around the ball so a fumble under that sort of pressure equals a turn over. Sadly it looks as though Jack can cut it when the regular season rolls on, but in the big games not so. Have we reached the era when you play when the opposition is not so good to allow another to rest, but sit out when the heat is on? If so then Jack will be worth a spot.

You don’t wish any harm on any player, but it was fantastic seeing players with eyes only on the ball and those sickening clashes come to mind where X Dursma was knocked out in the prelim against Blicavs and also when Danger K.O’d Vlastuin from Richmond in the GF.

I’ve seen Jack show courage at times in a marking contest but I’d have to agree with you that he hears footsteps when it comes to loose groundballs or when he is exposed with a handball receive. He developed some shocking habits under Richo and he wasn’t pulled up enough times when it happened.

If you keep your eyes on the footy, you will avoid getting hit or copping a crunching tackle. Billings needs to trust himself and work out ways to adapt/shrug off/baulk in those moments. You only do it in games if you’ve practiced it repeatedly on the training track.

Guys like Bolton and Edwards from Richmond and the mids in the Cats line up like Duncan, Parfit and Menegola seem to work out what they’ll do with the footy after they’ve successfully avoided a tackle. Clark and Gresh are good too

Okay everything in the universe is Richo's fault!
Did his successors not sell the farm for somebody dramatically "softer" than Billings?

[SaintPelican66]

Ever since his draft year, it seems Jack Billings has been a topic of conversation amongst our supporters.
Is he a forward, is he a midfielder, is he overrated, should he be traded?
I have no definitive answer, however, I'll put in my two bobs worth, for what it's worth.
In my view, he should be played as a high half forward, mainly covering the 2 arcs, using his kicking skills for forward 50 entries, the quality of which separates the good teams from the also rans.
He isn't physical enough to be played in the guts and I would like to see Hannebery or Clarke rotated between wing & on ball roles.
Unfortunately, we need to protect Hannebery as much as possible if we want to maximise his games output.
Keen to get fellow saints fans thoughts.

If Essendung agreed to trade us their first pick in next years draft I would do it. It could end up being pick 3. Would they be stupid enough to do it? Maybe!!!

[Scollop]

Anyone who saw the ferocity of the prelim and grand finals should understand that every player needs to be able to take the pressure, over the last decade space on the ground has shrunk, pressure greater, more players around the ball so a fumble under that sort of pressure equals a turn over. Sadly it looks as though Jack can cut it when the regular season rolls on, but in the big games not so. Have we reached the era when you play when the opposition is not so good to allow another to rest, but sit out when the heat is on? If so then Jack will be worth a spot.

You don’t wish any harm on any player, but it was fantastic seeing players with eyes only on the ball and those sickening clashes come to mind where X Dursma was knocked out in the prelim against Blicavs and also when Danger K.O’d Vlastuin from Richmond in the GF.

I’ve seen Jack show courage at times in a marking contest but I’d have to agree with you that he hears footsteps when it comes to loose groundballs or when he is exposed with a handball receive. He developed some shocking habits under Richo and he wasn’t pulled up enough times when it happened.

If you keep your eyes on the footy, you will avoid getting hit or copping a crunching tackle. Billings needs to trust himself and work out ways to adapt/shrug off/baulk in those moments. You only do it in games if you’ve practiced it repeatedly on the training track.

Guys like Bolton and Edwards from Richmond and the mids in the Cats line up like Duncan, Parfit and Menegola seem to work out what they’ll do with the footy after they’ve successfully avoided a tackle. Clark and Gresh are good too

Okay everything in the universe is Richo's fault!
Did his successors not sell the farm for somebody dramatically "softer" than Billings?

posting.php?f=1&mode=quote&p=1880868&si ... #pr1880724

Someone had already thanked you for your previous post

In other words, I totally agree. Butler, Ryder, Jones and Howard were the value trades and these 4 guys were better individually than Bradley.

As far as Hannas is concerned, there were a few of us (maybe many of us) that saw the risk before he even arrived. I argued relentlessly with Cairnsman and others

[repta]

Yes definitely a DIlemma.

Can see him plodding along at StKilda for the rest of his days with the supporters anxiously waiting for the day that he becomes a star.
and
StKilda trade him for *** probably*** a second rounder (maybe early third) and for him to develop into a star.

Personally I dont think he has the hunger. There is no killer

Good comparisons to Gresh. Gresh has none of the skill or (natural) talent of Billings but I would take Gresh everytime.

[whiskers3614]

Yes definitely a DIlemma.

Can see him plodding along at StKilda for the rest of his days with the supporters anxiously waiting for the day that he becomes a star.
and
StKilda trade him for *** probably*** a second rounder (maybe early third) and for him to develop into a star.

Personally I dont think he has the hunger. There is no killer

Good comparisons to Gresh. Gresh has none of the skill or (natural) talent of Billings but I would take Gresh everytime.

Remind me not to get you to sell any real estate for me.
On what planet is the AVERAGE player you draft with a first rounder going to be better than Billings?

[Yorkeys]

Emma: "Who is that smooth moving excellent kick that reads the play so well in Saints forward line"

Kane C: "The Billings; dill, Emma.
That's who". Any talk of trading him must come from the other clubs trying to stir the pot. Emma.

[ace]

I have St Kilda using Bilings as part of the trade to Gold Coast to bring in Ben King.
Billings would enjoy spending days lazing around on the beach.

[Ghost Like]

The dilemma I ponder with all that is written about Billings, predominately by those who don't rate him, have never rated him and somehow see him as the catalyst or example for us being in the wilderness between 2013 & 2019 is...
How is such a "soft, unmotivated, lazy, small, over rated, non tackling, inaccurate" (none my words) player going to extract the likes of Ben King or Tim Tarranto? Why would Gold Coast or GWS want a player that some of our supporters don't want?

That's the dilemma.

A required player in my opinion, one who will only get better as the team gets better. He was neither our best or our worst in the finals and I'd be confident that opposition sides put enough work into him because they know he's very dangerous if left unattended.

[magnifisaint]

Billings is not the dilemma. Trump is the dilemma!

[roskilde]

The dilemma I ponder with all that is written about Billings, predominately by those who don't rate him, have never rated him and somehow see him as the catalyst or example for us being in the wilderness between 2013 & 2019 is...
How is such a "soft, unmotivated, lazy, small, over rated, non tackling, inaccurate" (none my words) player going to extract the likes of Ben King or Tim Tarranto? Why would Gold Coast or GWS want a player that some of our supporters don't want?

That's the dilemma.

A required player in my opinion, one who will only get better as the team gets better. He was neither our best or our worst in the finals and I'd be confident that opposition sides put enough work into him because they know he's very dangerous if left unattended.

Agreed but I will say in terms of performance he's just slightly plateaued over the last couple of seasons and really needs a big one next season. He's brilliant at times and completely absent at others. Would love a consistent and high performance season where he shows us what he's really made of.

[resaintlee]

The heraldsun had him as the 49th highest paid player, around 600k from memory. He and Hill were the only Saints in the to 50.

[minneapolis]

Billings is not the dilemma. Trump is the dilemma!

Not after Tuesday night!

Bye Bye Orange Guy.

[CQ SAINT]

The heraldsun had him as the 49th highest paid player, around 600k from memory. He and Hill were the only Saints in the to 50.

Wow, so what about all the speculation about Hanners and his retirement fund $800k?

[repta]

Yes definitely a DIlemma.

Can see him plodding along at StKilda for the rest of his days with the supporters anxiously waiting for the day that he becomes a star.
and
StKilda trade him for *** probably*** a second rounder (maybe early third) and for him to develop into a star.

Personally I dont think he has the hunger. There is no killer

Good comparisons to Gresh. Gresh has none of the skill or (natural) talent of Billings but I would take Gresh everytime.

Remind me not to get you to sell any real estate for me.
On what planet is the AVERAGE player you draft with a first rounder going to be better than Billings?

Thankfully I am not selling him. I couldnt see any team parting with First Round selection for Billings.

I know he is baby faced, but he does remind me of a 16 year old playing in the seniors. Skilled and athletic but when not hard enough when it comes to the crunch.

He should model himself on DelSanto. There is some similarities between them (both positive and negatives). Del managed to overcome some of the same shortcomings as Billings

[resaintlee]

The heraldsun had him as the 49th highest paid player, around 600k from memory. He and Hill were the only Saints in the to 50.

Wow, so what about all the speculation about Hanners and his retirement fund $800k?

I wasn’t prepared to spend money buying a second Murdoch paper to find out about any others