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Lennylegs wrote: ↑Fri 23 Oct 2020 12:23pm
Ummmm, Cyril Rioli, Charlie Cameron, Eddie Betts, Tom Papley and Kevin Bartlett would all like a word...
Cyril was the prototype two way running midfielder/forward, Papely and Cameron are both two way running midfielder/forwards. Kevin Bartlet...give yourself an uppercut.
How many small forwards have won a Brownlow?
I really rate the Brownlow, the umps love a small forward.
Cyril rarely if ever played through the midfield. He was the prototype pressure small forward.
You say the umps love a small forward and yet they've never won a Brownlow medal, as you say. Not sure the logic here.
Besides, you're really limiting yourself if you only rate players who've won Brownlows. Much more to footy than that. I'd take a North Smith medalist over a Brownlow medal winner. As a club, St Kilda has probably had too many of the latter and not enough of the former.
Lennylegs wrote: ↑Fri 23 Oct 2020 12:23pm
Ummmm, Cyril Rioli, Charlie Cameron, Eddie Betts, Tom Papley and Kevin Bartlett would all like a word...
Cyril was the prototype two way running midfielder/forward, Papely and Cameron are both two way running midfielder/forwards. Kevin Bartlet...give yourself an uppercut.
How many small forwards have won a Brownlow?
I really rate the Brownlow, the umps love a small forward.
Cyril rarely if ever played through the midfield. He was the prototype pressure small forward.
You say the umps love a small forward and yet they've never won a Brownlow medal, as you say. Not sure the logic here.
Besides, you're really limiting yourself if you only rate players who've won Brownlows. Much more to footy than that. I'd take a North Smith medalist over a Brownlow medal winner. As a club, St Kilda has probably had too many of the latter and not enough of the former.
Also, I can barely even remember Papley or Charlie Cameron playing as mids. They have way more value to their teams as small forwards.
If a club wants to be successful, you've gotta have a point of difference to everyone else. You can't just have a team full of mids.
Lennylegs wrote: ↑Fri 23 Oct 2020 12:23pm
Ummmm, Cyril Rioli, Charlie Cameron, Eddie Betts, Tom Papley and Kevin Bartlett would all like a word...
Cyril was the prototype two way running midfielder/forward, Papely and Cameron are both two way running midfielder/forwards. Kevin Bartlet...give yourself an uppercut.
How many small forwards have won a Brownlow?
I really rate the Brownlow, the umps love a small forward.
Cyril rarely if ever played through the midfield. He was the prototype pressure small forward.
You say the umps love a small forward and yet they've never won a Brownlow medal, as you say. Not sure the logic here.
Besides, you're really limiting yourself if you only rate players who've won Brownlows. Much more to footy than that. I'd take a North Smith medalist over a Brownlow medal winner. As a club, St Kilda has probably had too many of the latter and not enough of the former.
Also, I can barely even remember Papley or Charlie Cameron playing as mids. They have way more value to their teams as small forwards.
If a club wants to be successful, you've gotta have a point of difference to everyone else. You can't just have a team full of mids.
Fingers crossed once we have the equal of other midfields in depth and talent, our point of difference will be two towering TWIN forwards with Billings, Gresham, Butler buzzing around them.
Lennylegs wrote: ↑Fri 23 Oct 2020 12:23pm
Ummmm, Cyril Rioli, Charlie Cameron, Eddie Betts, Tom Papley and Kevin Bartlett would all like a word...
Cyril was the prototype two way running midfielder/forward, Papely and Cameron are both two way running midfielder/forwards. Kevin Bartlet...give yourself an uppercut.
How many small forwards have won a Brownlow?
I really rate the Brownlow, the umps love a small forward.
Cyril rarely if ever played through the midfield. He was the prototype pressure small forward.
You say the umps love a small forward and yet they've never won a Brownlow medal, as you say. Not sure the logic here.
Besides, you're really limiting yourself if you only rate players who've won Brownlows. Much more to footy than that. I'd take a North Smith medalist over a Brownlow medal winner. As a club, St Kilda has probably had too many of the latter and not enough of the former.
Also, I can barely even remember Papley or Charlie Cameron playing as mids. They have way more value to their teams as small forwards.
If a club wants to be successful, you've gotta have a point of difference to everyone else. You can't just have a team full of mids.
Plenty of information on the internet bout Cyril, Papley and Charlie and how their positions are/were midfielder/forwards, even their club bios discuss it.
The fact of the matter is the modern game cannot afford for a player to be as useless as the old small forward and just sit at the feet of a tall forward and wait for tbe opportunistic goal. They need to be two way runners and help out up the ground. Hell even the modern Tall forward is not stay at home.
Only the freaks kick bags of goals and even then those types mainly get away with those tricks in the H&A and rarely in finals when the defensive game goes up a notch. Milnie and Eddie bets were famous for going missing in finals. Bags of goals are even a thing of the past, games these days are lucky to get over 10 goals total. It's completely changed.
Coaches are now training the small forwards to be two way runners and be involved in set plays up the ground and kicking goals is a secondary skill.
The dig about the Brownlow was a wind up related to another thread about how overrated the award is in judging and finding the best player.
Crouch coming in now puts another A level inside Bull next to Steele. He is an accumulator of possessions a Sherman tank that will improve our contested possessions that ranked mid table ( lower than our final ladder position) which means it’s a deficiency but not anymore. It will improve our outside midfielders look for a different Hill next year. This is an excellent get someone like a Crouch with his style will get heaps of votes on Brownlow in a team like St Kilda.
Bytel has Crouch and Steele to learn from that’s brilliant for him I know they have big wraps for him internally and he will be knocking on the door next season.
All of a sudden midfield has a bit of everything:
Crouch Bytel - Inside
Steele Jones Ross Hannebery Clark - Both
Hill Gresham Billings Sinclair - Outside
That’s now a deep and talented midfield it’s no longer a weakness in the competition it’s now a top 8 midfield.
It can compete at stoppages, it’s got X factor in tight spaces and speed and run in open spaces.
Ironically 3 of the highest paid players in that team Hannebery and Ross for me are the two most expendable. Lucky Hannebery money was front ended, Ross is on way too much coin for his level he was lucky to get the contract when he was the best mid in a bottom 4 team and you have to pay 95% of the cap.
Lennylegs wrote: ↑Fri 23 Oct 2020 12:23pm
Ummmm, Cyril Rioli, Charlie Cameron, Eddie Betts, Tom Papley and Kevin Bartlett would all like a word...
Cyril was the prototype two way running midfielder/forward, Papely and Cameron are both two way running midfielder/forwards. Kevin Bartlet...give yourself an uppercut.
How many small forwards have won a Brownlow?
I really rate the Brownlow, the umps love a small forward.
Cyril rarely if ever played through the midfield. He was the prototype pressure small forward.
You say the umps love a small forward and yet they've never won a Brownlow medal, as you say. Not sure the logic here.
Besides, you're really limiting yourself if you only rate players who've won Brownlows. Much more to footy than that. I'd take a North Smith medalist over a Brownlow medal winner. As a club, St Kilda has probably had too many of the latter and not enough of the former.
Also, I can barely even remember Papley or Charlie Cameron playing as mids. They have way more value to their teams as small forwards.
If a club wants to be successful, you've gotta have a point of difference to everyone else. You can't just have a team full of mids.
Fingers crossed once we have the equal of other midfields in depth and talent, our point of difference will be two towering TWIN forwards with Billings, Gresham, Butler buzzing around them.
100%
Our game plan seems to hinge on having proactive small forwards. We attack off the back half, try to keep our big targets deep so our small forwards have a point of reference, then go long and hit the forward line with flow and momentum.
My main criticism this year was that we didn't seem to have a lower gear against teams who go slow. Hopefully we work on that during summer.
Either way, Crouch is a quality pick up. Very happy about getting him.
Lennylegs wrote: ↑Fri 23 Oct 2020 12:23pm
Ummmm, Cyril Rioli, Charlie Cameron, Eddie Betts, Tom Papley and Kevin Bartlett would all like a word...
Cyril was the prototype two way running midfielder/forward, Papely and Cameron are both two way running midfielder/forwards. Kevin Bartlet...give yourself an uppercut.
How many small forwards have won a Brownlow?
I really rate the Brownlow, the umps love a small forward.
Cyril rarely if ever played through the midfield. He was the prototype pressure small forward.
You say the umps love a small forward and yet they've never won a Brownlow medal, as you say. Not sure the logic here.
Besides, you're really limiting yourself if you only rate players who've won Brownlows. Much more to footy than that. I'd take a North Smith medalist over a Brownlow medal winner. As a club, St Kilda has probably had too many of the latter and not enough of the former.
Also, I can barely even remember Papley or Charlie Cameron playing as mids. They have way more value to their teams as small forwards.
If a club wants to be successful, you've gotta have a point of difference to everyone else. You can't just have a team full of mids.
Plenty of information on the internet bout Cyril, Papley and Charlie and how their positions are/were midfielder/forwards, even their club bios discuss it.
The fact of the matter is the modern game cannot afford for a player to be as useless as the old small forward and just sit at the feet of a tall forward and wait for tbe opportunistic goal. They need to be two way runners and help out up the ground. Hell even the modern Tall forward is not stay at home.
Only the freaks kick bags of goals and even then those types mainly get away with those tricks in the H&A and rarely in finals when the defensive game goes up a notch. Milnie and Eddie bets were famous for going missing in finals. Bags of goals are even a thing of the past, games these days are lucky to get over 10 goals total. It's completely changed.
Coaches are now training the small forwards to be two way runners and be involved in set plays up the ground and kicking goals is a secondary skill.
The dig about the Brownlow was a wind up related to another thread about how overrated the award is in judging and finding the best player.
We had 51 goals kicked by permanent small forwards this year. Pretty good return in an era where goals are a premium.
But I take your point. I think where we can meet halfway is to say that a small forward who doesn't work defensively isn't worth much. That I can agree on.
Vazelos wrote: ↑Sat 24 Oct 2020 8:39am
Crouch coming in now puts another A level inside Bull next to Steele. He is an accumulator of possessions a Sherman tank that will improve our contested possessions that ranked mid table ( lower than our final ladder position) which means it’s a deficiency but not anymore. It will improve our outside midfielders look for a different Hill next year. This is an excellent get someone like a Crouch with his style will get heaps of votes on Brownlow in a team like St Kilda.
Bytel has Crouch and Steele to learn from that’s brilliant for him I know they have big wraps for him internally and he will be knocking on the door next season.
All of a sudden midfield has a bit of everything:
Crouch Bytel - Inside
Steele Jones Ross Hannebery Clark - Both
Hill Gresham Billings Sinclair - Outside
That’s now a deep and talented midfield it’s no longer a weakness in the competition it’s now a top 8 midfield.
It can compete at stoppages, it’s got X factor in tight spaces and speed and run in open spaces.
Ironically 3 of the highest paid players in that team Hannebery and Ross for me are the two most expendable. Lucky Hannebery money was front ended, Ross is on way too much coin for his level he was lucky to get the contract when he was the best mid in a bottom 4 team and you have to pay 95% of the cap.
You actually wouldn't have a f****** clue how much money Seb is on and in fact AFAIC it is none of your business.
The AFL pays the saints salary cap, not you.
The guy has won two best and fairest, was a runner up in a third and finished top ten this year.
Get over it ffs, your constant denigration of Ross is actually quite boring.
We need to get rid of our first round pick really quickly.
The AFL will NOT give pick 2 to Adelaide.
It would be a travesty like Melbourne getting pick 2 for Frawley while Hawthorn only got pick 19 for Franklin.
Instead Adelaide will get initially pick 20 for Crouch.
That means Adelaide puts in a fraudulent matching bid for Crouch.
He is a RESTRICTED free agent.
Adelaide will then be eyeing off our first round pick (initially pick 15) and more.
But if we no longer have our first round pick Adelaide gains little by matching St Kilda's bid for Crouch.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
ace wrote: ↑Sat 24 Oct 2020 1:53pm
We need to get rid of our first round pick really quickly.
The AFL will NOT give pick 2 to Adelaide.
It would be a travesty like Melbourne getting pick 2 for Frawley while Hawthorn only got pick 19 for Franklin.
Instead Adelaide will get initially pick 20 for Crouch.
That means Adelaide puts in a fraudulent matching bid for Crouch.
He is a RESTRICTED free agent.
Adelaide will then be eyeing off our first round pick (initially pick 15) and more.
But if we no longer have our first round pick Adelaide gains little by matching St Kilda's bid for Crouch.
Garry Lyon on Foxfooty gives the latest update on the Crouch deal:
"HOW SAINTS WILL GET BIG CROWS DEAL DONE
Adelaide will take on a pair of fringe Saints in order to get better compensation for Brad Crouch, according to Garry Lyon.
Crouch is keen to move to St Kilda in free agency, and the Crows appear happy to allow him to walk - as long as they get a good enough draft pick, which will be based on the size of the deal Crouch signs at his new home.
The mooted deal would see Adelaide trade for Jimmy Webster and Luke Dunstan, in exchange for “steak knife” late draft picks, to take on their salaries and free up space at St Kilda.
The Saints in turn would pay Crouch slightly more money, ensuring Adelaide receives a first-round pick in compensation - which would be Pick 2 - rather than Pick 20 or worse if the compo fell to the end of the first round.
“St Kilda and the Crows got together for a deal RE: Brad Crouch to ensure Adelaide gets compensation pick number two,” Lyon said on SEN Breakfast, reading news from ‘his insider’.
“The thought is the money was not high enough to give him the compensation.
“Initially the Crouch money fell under the compensation to make it happen, so the Saints bumped up his wage to get the average over $700,000, originally $550,000, which wasn’t enough.
“In turn, the Crows will take both Jimmy Webster and Luke Dunstan in exchange for a set of steak knife, late draft choices.”[/i']
Wouldn't disagree with that, Webster is unlikely to be able to force his way back into the Saints defence and although I personally rate Dunstan, with Crouch in the midfield he is also going to remain on the fringe.
"Any candidate for political office, once chosen for leadership, must have the will to take the wheel of a very powerful car, tasked from time to time to make a fast journey down a narrow, precipitous mountain road – and be highly skilled at driving. Otherwise, he is disqualified from the company of competent leaders."
John Carroll, Professor Emeritus of Sociology at La Trobe University.
Sanctorum wrote: ↑Sat 24 Oct 2020 4:06pm
Garry Lyon on Foxfooty gives the latest update on the Crouch deal:
"HOW SAINTS WILL GET BIG CROWS DEAL DONE
Adelaide will take on a pair of fringe Saints in order to get better compensation for Brad Crouch, according to Garry Lyon.
Crouch is keen to move to St Kilda in free agency, and the Crows appear happy to allow him to walk - as long as they get a good enough draft pick, which will be based on the size of the deal Crouch signs at his new home.
The mooted deal would see Adelaide trade for Jimmy Webster and Luke Dunstan, in exchange for “steak knife” late draft picks, to take on their salaries and free up space at St Kilda.
The Saints in turn would pay Crouch slightly more money, ensuring Adelaide receives a first-round pick in compensation - which would be Pick 2 - rather than Pick 20 or worse if the compo fell to the end of the first round.
“St Kilda and the Crows got together for a deal RE: Brad Crouch to ensure Adelaide gets compensation pick number two,” Lyon said on SEN Breakfast, reading news from ‘his insider’.
“The thought is the money was not high enough to give him the compensation.
“Initially the Crouch money fell under the compensation to make it happen, so the Saints bumped up his wage to get the average over $700,000, originally $550,000, which wasn’t enough.
“In turn, the Crows will take both Jimmy Webster and Luke Dunstan in exchange for a set of steak knife, late draft choices.”[/i']
Wouldn't disagree with that, Webster is unlikely to be able to force his way back into the Saints defence and although I personally rate Dunstan, with Crouch in the midfield he is also going to remain on the fringe.
I suppose the AFL is busy today with the GF. However, wouldn't be surprised, especially now that the above "deal" is all over public forums, that both clubs get a memo from the AFL shortly stating that the proposed deal compromises the FA system and is not on.
Sanctorum wrote: ↑Sat 24 Oct 2020 4:06pm
Garry Lyon on Foxfooty gives the latest update on the Crouch deal:
"HOW SAINTS WILL GET BIG CROWS DEAL DONE
Adelaide will take on a pair of fringe Saints in order to get better compensation for Brad Crouch, according to Garry Lyon.
Crouch is keen to move to St Kilda in free agency, and the Crows appear happy to allow him to walk - as long as they get a good enough draft pick, which will be based on the size of the deal Crouch signs at his new home.
The mooted deal would see Adelaide trade for Jimmy Webster and Luke Dunstan, in exchange for “steak knife” late draft picks, to take on their salaries and free up space at St Kilda.
The Saints in turn would pay Crouch slightly more money, ensuring Adelaide receives a first-round pick in compensation - which would be Pick 2 - rather than Pick 20 or worse if the compo fell to the end of the first round.
“St Kilda and the Crows got together for a deal RE: Brad Crouch to ensure Adelaide gets compensation pick number two,” Lyon said on SEN Breakfast, reading news from ‘his insider’.
“The thought is the money was not high enough to give him the compensation.
“Initially the Crouch money fell under the compensation to make it happen, so the Saints bumped up his wage to get the average over $700,000, originally $550,000, which wasn’t enough.
“In turn, the Crows will take both Jimmy Webster and Luke Dunstan in exchange for a set of steak knife, late draft choices.”[/i']
Wouldn't disagree with that, Webster is unlikely to be able to force his way back into the Saints defence and although I personally rate Dunstan, with Crouch in the midfield he is also going to remain on the fringe.
I suppose the AFL is busy today with the GF. However, wouldn't be surprised, especially now that the above "deal" is all over public forums, that both clubs get a memo from the AFL shortly stating that the proposed deal compromises the FA system and is not on.
The AFL know that Crouch is not worth a first round compensation pick certainly not pick 2.
They know that there is collusion going on.
So AFL can simply say no matter what St Kilda pays him Adelaide only gets a second round compensation pick presently pick 20.
The AFL was seriously embarrassed when they delivered pick no 2 to Melbourne for Frawley's move to Hawthorn.
Not going to allow it again unless it is Gold Coast or GWS.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
why tho ?
Websters manager has made it public that Webster is not moving to the crows
Most here are saying that Crouch is MASSIVELY important to the Saints climbing the ladder, and that looks like the exact same view held by the club obviously
Can their be an argument mounted that the AFL should consider/rate a vital player moving from a low club to a higher club be viewed differently
ace wrote: ↑Sat 24 Oct 2020 1:53pm
We need to get rid of our first round pick really quickly.
The AFL will NOT give pick 2 to Adelaide.
It would be a travesty like Melbourne getting pick 2 for Frawley while Hawthorn only got pick 19 for Franklin.
Instead Adelaide will get initially pick 20 for Crouch.
That means Adelaide puts in a fraudulent matching bid for Crouch.
He is a RESTRICTED free agent.
Adelaide will then be eyeing off our first round pick (initially pick 15) and more.
But if we no longer have our first round pick Adelaide gains little by matching St Kilda's bid for Crouch.
maverick wrote: ↑Mon 26 Oct 2020 4:32pm
He’s a recent AA and B&F winner that will factor in his value
Matt was AA, not Brad.
Brad's AA was Under-18 All Australian.
Oops I was going to check too...
Without checking again, he did win a B&F didn’t he?
Brad won B&F in 2019, 14 Brownlow Votes. Good year. I reckon he got passed over in 2019 for AA.
Absolutely brilliant season. If he goes 2019 hard in 2021 @ St Kilda I'm going to fecking lose my mind!!
His career stats have him above avg. and elite in many areas. Below avg. disposal eff and kicking eff.
He's come across a tad arrogant the 2 times we talked. Only once was it one on one. But he was only 22 and quite keen on impressing.
Pretty hard worker in rooms with positive talk, gym work, out on the track. Everyone I was with said they saw big upside, with a few red flags in his "after hours" and over confidence...but thats half the Aussie lads under 25 in the country.
I like him. I think he's got more to give than Hill in game play, Hill has more leadership on field.
Last edited by SAINT-LEE on Mon 26 Oct 2020 9:15pm, edited 1 time in total.
