Off Season Targets

[happy feet]

It appears Ben Brown is up for grabs.

[Ghost Like]

Jon Ralph
1:08 PM
I reckon Viney is a better player than Crouch. Both probably don't use it that well by foot. But that was an amazing stat this morning with Crouch, Luke Parker and Hugh Greenwood the worst three kicks of the top 100 ball getters. Shows when you get it in close and while you are being tackled, often your kick stats are poor. Asked Champion about his relative kick rating last night, which measures degree of difficulty. Crouch was minus 2.2 which clearly isn't great but it's acceptable. As Garry Lyon says, and he's a big Crouch fan, if he is kicking to Hawkins on the lead or handballing to Guthrie or Menegola on the run, his kick stats look much better. I think he will leave Adelaide, he is excited about Geelong, Dangerfield is trying to get him there, and if the decision had to be made today he would be at Geelong next year. I just know things change so quickly in trade week and there are still five weeks until the start of free agency

It would annoy me greatly if the Cats landed Crouch and we did not.

There may be better mids around than Crouch, but at present he is the best available mid going around that can be landed in this draft/trade period with paying an exorbitant trade cost in picks/players.

Add him and Caldwell, then with the mids that we already have we have something to work with for 2021 on..

I really do not know why the Cats landing Crouch would annoy you. I'd celebrate it! Did you watch the disposals of Steven, Selwood & Grimes? I'd welcome Crouch adding his disposal skills & salary to Geelong. Remember, Geelong now have to pay for all of Steven, that will hurt!

Let us take a mid or two that have a couple of years in the system, much better value.

[saintbob]

Ross Dunstan Carlsie off if the price is right. We can cover them and gotta give something to get something. Webster I'd like to see what he does in Ratts lead team. He can kick and hard as a cat's head. He'd slot into HBF and Clark goes mid. We've only seen Webster in poor teams, I'd like to see him in a decent one. Reckon he'd go ok. IMO.

Keep Webster and off load Lonie, apparentley the Bulldogs are keen on him so lets see what they're prepared to offer up

[Impatient Sainter]

On BF trade thread there is word going around that we are having a red hot go at Jeremy Cameron again. That would lift our GF time line to 2021 if that was the case. We will still need to find midfielders but our forward line would be unstoppable.

[ace]

Something was amiss at GWS all year, they just didnt play with any spirit. Having said that I would happily take Taranto & Caldwell off them to help out with their salary cap issues.

Something was amiss at GWS from the day they renewed Leon Cameron's coaching contract.
The entire playing group can see his game plan is a failure.
He can't coach.
They have the most talented list wasted on a incompetent coach.
The players don't play with belief because of this.
Now they can not see any reason to stay other than money.
And there isn't enough for everyone to get big money.

Lets help cannibalise them.

Taranto and Caldwell for starters.

[ace]

I really do not know why the Cats landing Crouch would annoy you. I'd celebrate it! Did you watch the disposals of Steven, Selwood & Grimes? I'd welcome Crouch adding his disposal skills & salary to Geelong. Remember, Geelong now have to pay for all of Steven, that will hurt!

Let us take a mid or two that have a couple of years in the system, much better value.

I did notice Jack Steven's disposals in round 17.
They were outstanding.
Outstanding in that he could never hit a target or get even close.
Unless that target was an opponent.

Was he really that bad when he played for us.
Were we blinded by the odd occasion he burst out of centre stoppage with the ball.
I always noticed his defensive run was non existent.

[saintbob]

I really do not know why the Cats landing Crouch would annoy you. I'd celebrate it! Did you watch the disposals of Steven, Selwood & Grimes? I'd welcome Crouch adding his disposal skills & salary to Geelong. Remember, Geelong now have to pay for all of Steven, that will hurt!

Let us take a mid or two that have a couple of years in the system, much better value.

I did notice Jack Steven's disposals in round 17.
They were outstanding.
Outstanding in that he could never hit a target or get even close.
Unless that target was an opponent.

Was he really that bad when he played for us.
Were we blinded by the odd occasion he burst out of centre stoppage with the ball.
I always noticed his defensive run was non existent.

YES!!!

[freely]

It appears Ben Brown is up for grabs.

I mentioned BB on here last month but got no traction. Just queried it though on another thread too - what's the real story behind North wanting shot of him? What's the real story why other clubs aren't paying more attention? I don't buy "he doesn't fit our gameplan" - he's a goal-kicker and has been practically iconic at North. Probably their most popular player since Carey (perhaps a poor comparison given how he fell out of favour! - can't believe there's any similar story with Ben). Anyone know?

[CQ SAINT]

It appears Ben Brown is up for grabs.

I mentioned BB on here last month but got no traction. Just queried it though on another thread too - what's the real story behind North wanting shot of him? What's the real story why other clubs aren't paying more attention? I don't buy "he doesn't fit our gameplan" - he's a goal-kicker and has been practically iconic at North. Probably their most popular player since Carey (perhaps a poor comparison given how he fell out of favour! - can't believe there's any similar story with Ben). Anyone know?

While he has some runs on the board, he is one dimensional, fragile, 27 and has a knee injury. He knocked back 3 years for more security. The club that knows him wouldn't do it. Speaks volumes.

[Superboot]

It appears Ben Brown is up for grabs.

Always dangerous against us.

But has he gone downhill?

[st.byron]

It appears Ben Brown is up for grabs.

I mentioned BB on here last month but got no traction. Just queried it though on another thread too - what's the real story behind North wanting shot of him? What's the real story why other clubs aren't paying more attention? I don't buy "he doesn't fit our gameplan" - he's a goal-kicker and has been practically iconic at North. Probably their most popular player since Carey (perhaps a poor comparison given how he fell out of favour! - can't believe there's any similar story with Ben). Anyone know?

While he has some runs on the board, he is one dimensional, fragile, 27 and has a knee injury. He knocked back 3 years for more security. The club that knows him wouldn't do it. Speaks volumes.

This is why we shouldn’t look at him. I want to see younger players like Taranto and Caldwell added to our list. Players who are still moving towards their prime and can be 10 year players. We have a great core of younger guys developing and I want to see a couple more at least, quality guys who can mould themselves into a long term successful unit. Long, King, Coff, Clark, Battle have established themselves and it’s reasonable to expect they’ll all become better players. Bytel has promise along with a couple of others. Add a few more quality early 20’s guys and we have a really good core of long term players. Then with the quality we have in the 24 - 26 group - Butler, Steele, Wilkie, Roma, Howard, Jones, Billings we look like a contender for a long time. That way Hannebery and Hill are cream rather than the substance of the cake. Keep our eyes peeled for a replacement for Ryder in the coming years and snaffle Ben King at the end of 2022.

Would rather see list development based on this strategy than the likes of Brad Crouch or Ben Brown, who, at least in Crouch’s case will cost a bomb and it can be reasonably argued both have reached their peak and both have injury issues.

[saynta]

Crouch is Sleepy Hollow bound,

[st.byron]

Crouch is Sleepy Hollow bound,

Good. They’re welcome.

[Joffa Burns]

It appears Ben Brown is up for grabs.

Always dangerous against us.

But has he gone downhill?

Maybe they’d take Max King for Brown if we threw in a draft pick?

[johnearljames]

Ben Brown no.

[skeptic]

If this season has taught us anything, it’s the value of experience.
Brown was a good player and could teach a guy like Max something.

If he’s body is right and he comes super cheap... could do worse than adding him as a depth player on the list for a year or 2.

[saintsRrising]

This is why we shouldn’t look at him. I want to see younger players like Taranto and Caldwell added to our list.

Yes who would not want Taranto and Caldwell? Would be amazing if we landed both.

However if we only secure players by trade and draft and do not also use the free agency system, and our competitors do, then it puts us at a disadvantage.

ie Say Cats land Cameron and Crouch, Daniher to Lions (which would improve them) and Williams to Blues (even though $$$ is over). And they still get to use their other picks to draft in or trade in players.

Due our 2019 trading this draft/trade period we also enter it with less picks to trade.

IN
- Round four pick (tied to Port Adelaide)
- Round four pick (tied to Sydney)

OUT
- Round two pick to Fremantle
- Round three pick to Port Adelaide
- Round four pick to Fremantle

So that is only a first and fourth rounder left from 2020. Plus our 2021 picks.

Player trade wise the trading cupboard is looking very thin. In 2019 we managed to turn Bruce into Jones which was a good win for us, and as Max gets stronger in future years will be even more so.

I am not sure we have anyone left who would generate a good trade value who we would be happy to lose.
ie None of Carlisle, Ross, Dunstan or Lonie would generate much back.



$$$$ is less of an issue as all reports we remain in a healthy position in banked salary cap and this season we were still at the lower end.


This coming draft/period is a crucial one for StKilda. I think we all know that our midfield is not where it needs to be and compared to the top 10, and probably top 12, we rank probably last.

We desperately need Gresh to improve, and for Bytel to become a genuine good inside mid for us. But we equally need to more mids who are either gun mids or are likely to. become so.


PS: Our trading team outperformed in 2019, and so we hope that they do so again in 2020. I just think that what they have to trade with in 2020 is less, and so their task to improve our position is harder.

[st.byron]

This is why we shouldn’t look at him. I want to see younger players like Taranto and Caldwell added to our list.

Yes who would not want Taranto and Caldwell? Would be amazing if we landed both.

However if we only secure players by trade and draft and do not also use the free agency system, and our competitors do, then it puts us at a disadvantage.

ie Say Cats land Cameron and Crouch, Daniher to Lions (which would improve them) and Williams to Blues (even though $$$ is over). And they still get to use their other picks to draft in or trade in players.

Due our 2019 trading this draft/trade period we also enter it with less picks to trade.

IN
- Round four pick (tied to Port Adelaide)
- Round four pick (tied to Sydney)

OUT
- Round two pick to Fremantle
- Round three pick to Port Adelaide
- Round four pick to Fremantle

So that is only a first and fourth rounder left from 2020. Plus our 2021 picks.

Player trade wise the trading cupboard is looking very thin. In 2019 we managed to turn Bruce into Jones which was a good win for us, and as Max gets stronger in future years will be even more so.

I am not sure we have anyone left who would generate a good trade value who we would be happy to lose.
ie None of Carlisle, Ross, Dunstan or Lonie would generate much back.



$$$$ is less of an issue as all reports we remain in a healthy position in banked salary cap and this season we were still at the lower end.


This coming draft/period is a crucial one for StKilda. I think we all know that our midfield is not where it needs to be and compared to the top 10, and probably top 12, we rank probably last.

We desperately need Gresh to improve, and for Bytel to become a genuine good inside mid for us. But we equally need to more mids who are either gun mids or are likely to. become so.


PS: Our trading team outperformed in 2019, and so we hope that they do so again in 2020. I just think that what they have to trade with in 2020 is less, and so their task to improve our position is harder.

I’m with you on securing good quality F.A’s but they need to be at the top their game and not injury prone. And they tend to cost a lot more. Cameron for example would be a worthwhile get, but at what price? Am for getting quality F.A’s just so long as we’re not putting all our eggs in one basket and we’re not signing someone who’s reached their peak and might be injury prone on long, big dollar contracts. Hannebery for example might turn out well for us, but I’d hate to be hanging our future on his ability to get on the park.
Agree this trade period is crucial for us to fill the gaps in the mid field and if we can get a couple of quality young mids, then players like Hannebery become a bonus of experience and skill rather than carrying our hopes.

[saintsRrising]

I’m with you on securing good quality F.A’s but they need to be at the top their game and not injury prone. And they tend to cost a lot more. Cameron for example would be a worthwhile get, but at what price? Am for getting quality F.A’s just so long as we’re not putting all our eggs in one basket and we’re not signing someone who’s reached their peak and might be injury prone on long, big dollar contracts. Hannebery for example might turn out well for us, but I’d hate to be hanging our future on his ability to get on the park.
Agree this trade period is crucial for us to fill the gaps in the mid field and if we can get a couple of quality young mids, then players like Hannebery become a bonus of experience and skill rather than carrying our hopes.

If we stick to discussing the issue of FA's (and Hannebery was a trade) this years group of RFAs and UFAs is extremely thin compared to many years.

FA's I see as the opposite of "putting all our eggs in one basket " as a FA apart from using a list spot is essentially an extra free pick. They only cost pickwise if one loses a player to FA and loses the pick compo if gained.

DFA's may turn up something useful, but not anyone of current quality. Though who knows we may find another Robbo or Membrey (though he was a cheap deal that fell through allowing us to still get him as a DFA) but the odds on this are not good.

That the Saints did not bid high for Williams makes me hopeful that the Saints do believe that we are set to land a pick or two.


If we only go to the draft that will most likely not help us a great deal for the next two years as we have no 2nd/3rd round pick and our 1st round is in a year when there are a huge number of quality players likely to be denied to us as academy/nga selections. So the odds of getting an elite mid are low.

If we could get two quality inside attacking mids, then with the players we already have in the other positions we could be a genuine contender of the next 3 or so years. Without them we may remain fringe.

- Max and Marshall should only get better
- Our young backline should get better even if Carlisle fades
- Forwards of King, Battle, Membrey, Butler is good quality
- Outside mids are good to reasonable with Hill, Billings, Jones and Sinclair

Steele needs some mates on the inside. Clark, Gresh and even Bytel offer some hope that we already may have some talent there, but you really want more depth as injuries happen. And if Gresh was more small forward (rotating through the midfield) to support Butler then our best 22 starts to look better and better.

PS: At least with Hannebery the actual trade cost was low, even though the $$$ are high. But $$$ are not currently a problem for us. But yes actual games on the park is not looking good.

PSS A FA may not be a mid of course. But again this years pool of FA's is thin.

[Ghost Like]

If this season has taught us anything, it’s the value of experience.
Brown was a good player and could teach a guy like Max something.

If he’s body is right and he comes super cheap... could do worse than adding him as a depth player on the list for a year or 2.

I agree that experience is the key with how our list is structured which is why Higgins is more attractive.

Brown could teach Max how to lead and about accuracy but that's it. Max is already far superior when the ball is on the ground. Max already knows how to get buffeted in a pack & drop marks...both of which will improve with each game & each pre season.

If BB cost nothing, then maybe but he won't. I'd rather the effort be on the midfield, saving time & money for the real Ben, Ben Kin

[st.byron]

Yep sRs I see what you mean about F.A’s essentially being a free pick. Worth doing if it brings immediate improvement or quality, so long as we don’t have to sell the farm to get ‘em. And yeah we need help for Steele. Another one or two quality mids is what we’re crying out for. Did someone say we passed on both Bont and Petracca and could have had em both.......farkin hindsight.

[saintsRrising]

If this season has taught us anything, it’s the value of experience.
Brown was a good player and could teach a guy like Max something.

If he’s body is right and he comes super cheap... could do worse than adding him as a depth player on the list for a year or 2.

I agree that experience is the key with how our list is structured which is why Higgins is more attractive.

Brown could teach Max how to lead and about accuracy but that's it. Max is already far superior when the ball is on the ground. Max already knows how to get buffeted in a pack & drop marks...both of which will improve with each game & each pre season.

If BB cost nothing, then maybe but he won't. I'd rather the effort be on the midfield, saving time & money for the real Ben, Ben Kin

Yes Higgins might be a compromise. A bit too old, but is good at a cheap price.

If we landed say Caldwell and Higgins it would not be a bad mix.

[saintsRrising]

. Did someone say we passed on both Bont and Petracca and could have had em both.......farkin hindsight.

We cannot undo history, but we would never have picked both, but Petracca was very much the player we should have picked at the time.

Bont was not someone we were going to pick. So credit and luck to the Dogs on that one. Their draft picking of mids has been excellent.

However Petracca was one that the majority of people saw as the best pick. And the clubs stated reason of taking Paddy as they panicked about getting a key forward due to the $million Boyd deal.


Anyway the Saints ability to draft and trade well has improved markedly in recent years. From 2016 on in particular we have emerged from the list management wilderness.

[sks023]

It appears Ben Brown is up for grabs.

Always dangerous against us.

But has he gone downhill?

Maybe they’d take Max King for Brown if we threw in a draft pick?

Am I reading this right. you would trade Max King for Ronald Mc Donald Brown ?

[Drew21]

i think we go after saad which will allow clark to push in to the middle also maybe be able to get coff some midfield minuites