Time to get ruthless

[Teflon]

I like Dmac, should be given a better go. He was given a 3 year contract as he is a like for like replacement for Gears.

Kicking suspect can we really afford to bring in poor users of the ball?

When the heat goes on in a game it exposes us now
Eagles very clean the other night ....for a reason

Probably not, seeing you are trading two of our best kicks, Billings & Membrey.

Then again, I'd still give DMac a go, a few chaos kicks ( a la Richmond) sometimes are better than bombs in the air to a pack.

Membrey ??? Honestly he’s your gun kick???
We are in trouble
I actually reckon Battle is a better lead up forward option to play alongside King with Marshall deep on occasion
I think Membrey flies (off 2 feet) often gets pushed under the ball and doesn’t do much after it hits the deck
Battles marking ability and toughness up forward would change the look and maybe just give our forward entries a target and who knows....maybe help out our terrible entries???
Membrey is tradeable IMO
Anyhoo let’s keep doing the same then asking after honorable close losses why nothing changes....

So you think Membrey's not a good kick? er.....OK. His vertical leap ability has stood him in good stead for quite a few years now, kicked plenty of goals because of it, and it helps when the lead in kick is a bit high, which is a Saint's trait. Membrey is only 26. Battle? I like him, probably best as a utility, there is hardly a body of evidence to say he would succeed as a permanent forward, might make us top heavy. You are taking a punt whereas Membrey is proven.

Anyhoo, I'm not against sensible trades to improve the team, but if you are looking at asset stripping the club you need to state the aim/targets. Who are you after that will put us on the positive side of the ledger after losing Billings & Membrey? For instance, Kelly? Would take at least 2 first round draft picks and only a very remote chance anyway. He's been a bit injury prone as well lately. We would still be on the debit side. A few names would help your case, and not FAs.

Ok let’s stop being silly for the sake
We aren’t getting Kelly but gee....that injury prone Kelly was v good last night in a big game ????
Membrey has moments - who would I replace him with if Zi could ???
Gunston at Hawks alongside King has a nice ring to it ...better kick AA and top 7 Coleman this year in a s*** side
Why
Battle has played key forward roles as a junior and every time he’s gone forward he’s looked dangerous, hit the kicker with a strong lead ....but you carry on hoping Membrey (a 3rd option at best) is going to save us..
What other names ?? Geee let’s see thinking improving midfield I dunno...
Caldwell - looks great is young still has upside
RDC from Tigers (they’re keen to keep him as he has talent but can’t get a game....would walk into our midfield)
Constable at Geelong???? Can’t crack their midfield (it’s pretty good) would be playing regularly in ours
Zac Willians????
What about Moore from Pies as they struggle with cap issues to replace Carlisle??????
There’s some names for ya ....now tell me again why sticking Membrey and Billings is your way to our next flag ??

That's better.
Gunston would be good, but signed till 2022, very unlikely, we would have to massively overpay, no thanks.
I have never said I am hoping Membrey is going to save us, more I am hoping King will mature & get more strength, and we need to sort out our forward entries, leads and spacing- that's mainly coaching. Battle can still drift in there.
Caldwell - fully agree, don't need to trade Billings or Membrey to get him.
RDC? Haven't seen much of him, hasn't got a game yet. Tigers won't let him go.
Constable? 9 games total, OK but would rather Caldwell. Again, no need to trade Billings/Membrey.
Zac Williams? Yes please, but RFA so no need to trade.
Moore? Fat chance. Love him to replace Carlisle though, but our backs are OK with enough depth.

I would be happy with Caldwell & Williams, assuming Ryder can go another year at least. Can do that and retain Billings & Membrey. Billings/Gresham can play forward as well.

My main concern is the seemingly inflexible/one game plan coaching.

Yes Gunston has 2 years so what? Why wouldn’t Hawks do a Carlisle and steak knives deal from us?? Membrey??
I’d do it in a flash and Gunston improves us immediately and we lose an intercept defender who doesn’t defen 1 on 1 with a shyte attitude ??
My point is you have to give something of value to get
Overrating our players, continuing to rely on guys who after 6 years have let us down in big games and expecting a different result is dumb imo
Any of those mids I named would walk into and improve our side we need 2 of these IMO ....when you add a Coffield, Clarke, Bytel to rotations we start to look deep
Do need a tall Carlisle replacement down back....could do worse than dangle an offer at Moore
Again, get ruthless and be bold now is the time while a good core of kids is developing

[Teflon]

From AFL trade Rumours

St Kilda is understood to be keen on bringing another marking forward to the club and could attract the attention of Gunston via assistant coach Jarryd Roughead, but the Hawks sharpshooter’s age may not fit Brett Ratten’s list demographic.

And while the Saints are chasing out of contract GWS youngster Jye Caldwell, so are several other clubs. Geelong, Adelaide and Essendon are among them."

[johnearljames]

f*** me. Play Battle, King and Membrey in the forward line as marking options plus Marshall when Paddy is in the ruck and vice versa. We already have the players.

[johnearljames]

I would take Breust over Gunston. Exactly the sort of player we need who is still 28.

[Teflon]

f*** me. Play Battle, King and Membrey in the forward line as marking options plus Marshall when Paddy is in the ruck and vice versa. We already have the players.

Don’t disagree tell the coach seems unable to see Battle is the answer I act7ally think Battle left up there could be brilliant
BTW Gunston again has kicked a couple in this game Breust doesn’t give you forward marking option no to Breust for mine

[shanegrambeau]

f*** me. Play Battle, King and Membrey in the forward line as marking options plus Marshall when Paddy is in the ruck and vice versa. We already have the players.

Don’t disagree tell the coach seems unable to see Battle is the answer I act7ally think Battle left up there could be brilliant
BTW Gunston again has kicked a couple in this game Breust doesn’t give you forward marking option no to Breust for mine

Could it be that Battle and Membrey, and maybe even Billings, are up the ground more because our midfield is so weak?

Having Battle watching the grass grow in the f50 may be a waste?

[shanegrambeau]

f*** me. Play Battle, King and Membrey in the forward line as marking options plus Marshall when Paddy is in the ruck and vice versa. We already have the players.

Don’t disagree tell the coach seems unable to see Battle is the answer I act7ally think Battle left up there could be brilliant
BTW Gunston again has kicked a couple in this game Breust doesn’t give you forward marking option no to Breust for mine

Could it be that Battle and Membrey, and maybe even Billings, are up the ground more because our midfield is so weak?

Having Battle watching the grass grow in the f50 may be a waste?

[Teflon]

f*** me. Play Battle, King and Membrey in the forward line as marking options plus Marshall when Paddy is in the ruck and vice versa. We already have the players.

Don’t disagree tell the coach seems unable to see Battle is the answer I act7ally think Battle left up there could be brilliant
BTW Gunston again has kicked a couple in this game Breust doesn’t give you forward marking option no to Breust for mine

Could it be that Battle and Membrey, and maybe even Billings, are up the ground more because our midfield is so weak?

Having Battle watching the grass grow in the f50 may be a waste?

We are getting tons of entries +16 against Dees and losing
Our entries in need fixing but we also need to give the kicker some more lead up options
I do not understand why we seem to congregate in a pack 20 out from goal......yes have maybe Marshall et al big bodies do that but king Membrey and battle ought to be spreading the defence and leading up....
We just allow defenders to pick off easy intercept marks in one location??? Dumb footy
I don’t think Battle would be watching grass grow if we did that

[Yorkeys]

Speaking of ruthless: the timing is perfect for the AFL Commission and bloated Administration to get ruthless. Admit expansion has failed re GWS . Tell the Club and players Friday will be the last game. Reappointing LC and appointing a non playing captain were last straws. Need to do this to mitigate list cuts in 2021 and preserve executive bonuses/perks: polo ponys, junkets to Superbowl, au pairs, etc. I would be glad to deliver the news about 4pm Friday as captain is unavailable to talk to players (PM will get me a travel exemption because to do otherwise would be cruel and heartless and Dan likes St Kilda, but was surprised to learn it is a football club as well as a beach suburb). While at it tip off Suns unless they beat Collingwood they are next for the Fitzroy trail. I'll call Gill as soon as he is out of the spa. He has lines to Scomo/Dutto/Hunto and Cormo and a swag of free GF tickets.

[st.byron]

Speaking of ruthless: the timing is perfect for the AFL Commission and bloated Administration to get ruthless. Admit expansion has failed re GWS . Tell the Club and players Friday will be the last game. Reappointing LC and appointing a non playing captain were last straws. Need to do this to mitigate list cuts in 2021 and preserve executive bonuses/perks: polo ponys, junkets to Superbowl, au pairs, etc. I would be glad to deliver the news about 4pm Friday as captain is unavailable to talk to players (PM will get me a travel exemption because to do otherwise would be cruel and heartless and Dan likes St Kilda, but was surprised to learn it is a football club as well as a beach suburb). While at it tip off Suns unless they beat Collingwood they are next for the Fitzroy trail. I'll call Gill as soon as he is out of the spa. He has lines to Scomo/Dutto/Hunto and Cormo and a swag of free GF tickets.

Noice

[older saint]

With respect strongly disagree. Firstly, who honestly would have thought we would be a chance of finals going in to the final round. One eyed optimists or those with a crystal ball . Yes you need to change to move forward but good teams develop over time. Richmond 2016 didn't through the toys out of the cot as they believed in the pieces they had accrued, Geelong 2006 the same.
Knee jerk reactions very rarely see success. I am trying to think of a side which appeared on the way up , made massive changes and then were successful. Please help me out if i am wrong.

Membrey and Billings are important parts of this squad, yes their role may need to change but not benefit in trading out getting a new 18 year old in and going back another 3 years.
To me Carlisle obviously has an attitude issue and therefore requires a decision made. Dunstan is not in our best 15 and others such as Kent, Parker etc are fringe and depth players which good teams have as the option of replacement with an 18 year old in the 4th round leaves a club open to issues when injuries occur.

Geary i agree is on his last legs , we from outside will never appreciate the role in leadership he plays and many just see the offensive errors, not the defensive side of his game and direction . Thanks for the service .
Ross is one which role may need to be changed, again though you need foot soldiers.

I feel we are on the way up , have a very young list which will get better over time just with growth - Clark, Coffield, Brynes, Bytel, King, Gresham, Long, Paton, Marshall, Battle- there is nearly half a side with improvement in it if work hard just due to experience and physical development. Surround that with bigger bodies, Jones, Ross, Steele, Howard, Membrey, Butler, Hill , Hannebry, Billings.

Strategically add but have a solid core. Premiership teams have players who are role players , not stars who are important and IF tis group wants to get there we need them- this is the issue with GWS too many Stars and no foot soldiers. - Guys like Vandenberg, Hutchings, Leigh Brown, spring to mind, heck we had them in Blake and Gilbert for years.

Hopefully we beat GWS and anything form there this year is a bonus to me. I believe we need to strategically build but we also need to have depth - RL (like him or not) did the first part just failed on the second . Richmond and before than Hawthorn did both and it was only this year due to $$ did Richmond off load anyone - Ellis.

JMO

Good post
Can’t agree at all
I don’t think a Billings trade (for the right price) after 6 years is knee jerk and Membrey is at best medium sized 3rd tall option who is inconsistent
I’m sorry but I’ve seen enough games when things get tough and these guys - who ought to be leaders by now simply vanish and let us down. I refuse to blame Max King a kid got that.
Bottom line is good sides do trade players with value to get - Sydney have gone it for years..,.traded Membrey
We overrate our list chronically and miss the opportunity
IMO

Firstly nice to have discussion of disagreement without personal insults .
Membrey we got for nothing , so no value gain for Sydney. Who have have they let go that has improved them?
Definitely not overrating the list - i think we are at best a 7-10 team at the moment.
This is a very compromised draft so anything you do give up will be a later than usual pick - 2nd round picks become a normal third and no one mentioned ( apart from Billings ) would get us a first round pick. No trouble trading to get value back - Acres is showing that now he isn't made to play second ruck with the Hill trade - just don't think = perhaps apart from Carlise there is value coming back.
The other intangible which none of us can know is the locker room damage that can be done by trading certain players ( and i guess Membrey is one of those) . I remember back in the 90's when we tried to get W G Williams and it got out we offered Sydney anyone on the list bar 8 players. Completely smashed the camaraderie of the group and took years to recover. Harder to attract players also if there is a revolving door at the front.

Give me a viable option to consider and if it makes us better longer term yes but not around the edges - like Hill trade definite need and had to give up a bit but made sense as something we didn't have. IF a class user ( I'll use name Kelly but may not be him) was wanting to come then look at that because makes us better.

Anyway good to have different opinions more than one way to skin a cat

[shanegrambeau]

Just last year, we shuddered at the prospect of losing Bruce, who with Membrey (..I almost said, Heatley! ) were our forward pillars. I think our best player was potentially still Steven although it was a foregone conclusion we just accepted.

Now Bruce is languishing elsewhere, Steven is at best a fringe player at Geelong, and our King is struggling - let’s face it, and its no deal breaker (yet) - one year injured, one year getting pollaxed in a still dysfunctional forward line and we don’t have the crumbers to collect and make good the spoils although we’ve been being teased by Butler and Hind a few times.

I only see that the powers to be must see the moving of some of these utility players to key positions as robbing peter to pay Paul. If Battle is a forward it looks good on paper, but now who is that player bashing and crashing and pulling in marks at half back (again Mr Carlisle, where are you? ) What I’m saying is we won’t get those entries without Billings and Battle and co., even Membrey, up the ground competing.

I think we are really stretched and I am scratching my head as to how we beat some top four teams this year. Perhaps Gresham is worth three players!

[Teflon]

With respect strongly disagree. Firstly, who honestly would have thought we would be a chance of finals going in to the final round. One eyed optimists or those with a crystal ball . Yes you need to change to move forward but good teams develop over time. Richmond 2016 didn't through the toys out of the cot as they believed in the pieces they had accrued, Geelong 2006 the same.
Knee jerk reactions very rarely see success. I am trying to think of a side which appeared on the way up , made massive changes and then were successful. Please help me out if i am wrong.

Membrey and Billings are important parts of this squad, yes their role may need to change but not benefit in trading out getting a new 18 year old in and going back another 3 years.
To me Carlisle obviously has an attitude issue and therefore requires a decision made. Dunstan is not in our best 15 and others such as Kent, Parker etc are fringe and depth players which good teams have as the option of replacement with an 18 year old in the 4th round leaves a club open to issues when injuries occur.

Geary i agree is on his last legs , we from outside will never appreciate the role in leadership he plays and many just see the offensive errors, not the defensive side of his game and direction . Thanks for the service .
Ross is one which role may need to be changed, again though you need foot soldiers.

I feel we are on the way up , have a very young list which will get better over time just with growth - Clark, Coffield, Brynes, Bytel, King, Gresham, Long, Paton, Marshall, Battle- there is nearly half a side with improvement in it if work hard just due to experience and physical development. Surround that with bigger bodies, Jones, Ross, Steele, Howard, Membrey, Butler, Hill , Hannebry, Billings.

Strategically add but have a solid core. Premiership teams have players who are role players , not stars who are important and IF tis group wants to get there we need them- this is the issue with GWS too many Stars and no foot soldiers. - Guys like Vandenberg, Hutchings, Leigh Brown, spring to mind, heck we had them in Blake and Gilbert for years.

Hopefully we beat GWS and anything form there this year is a bonus to me. I believe we need to strategically build but we also need to have depth - RL (like him or not) did the first part just failed on the second . Richmond and before than Hawthorn did both and it was only this year due to $$ did Richmond off load anyone - Ellis.

JMO

Good post
Can’t agree at all
I don’t think a Billings trade (for the right price) after 6 years is knee jerk and Membrey is at best medium sized 3rd tall option who is inconsistent
I’m sorry but I’ve seen enough games when things get tough and these guys - who ought to be leaders by now simply vanish and let us down. I refuse to blame Max King a kid got that.
Bottom line is good sides do trade players with value to get - Sydney have gone it for years..,.traded Membrey
We overrate our list chronically and miss the opportunity
IMO

Firstly nice to have discussion of disagreement without personal insults .
Membrey we got for nothing , so no value gain for Sydney. Who have have they let go that has improved them?
Definitely not overrating the list - i think we are at best a 7-10 team at the moment.
This is a very compromised draft so anything you do give up will be a later than usual pick - 2nd round picks become a normal third and no one mentioned ( apart from Billings ) would get us a first round pick. No trouble trading to get value back - Acres is showing that now he isn't made to play second ruck with the Hill trade - just don't think = perhaps apart from Carlise there is value coming back.
The other intangible which none of us can know is the locker room damage that can be done by trading certain players ( and i guess Membrey is one of those) . I remember back in the 90's when we tried to get W G Williams and it got out we offered Sydney anyone on the list bar 8 players. Completely smashed the camaraderie of the group and took years to recover. Harder to attract players also if there is a revolving door at the front.

Give me a viable option to consider and if it makes us better longer term yes but not around the edges - like Hill trade definite need and had to give up a bit but made sense as something we didn't have. IF a class user ( I'll use name Kelly but may not be him) was wanting to come then look at that because makes us better.

Anyway good to have different opinions more than one way to skin a cat

I don’t think we’ll destabilise the players or club to trade to improve most know that’s how it happens nowadays
I’m not even sure trading for picks is a given
I would be interested in orchestrating a trade for players that improve us
Eg Gunston from Hawks.....experienced , marking dead eye goal kicking target....Hawks rebuilding.....major jump up from Membrey imo . He has 2 year contract so you need to pay extra so maybe offer Carlisle plus steak knives .....if they asked for Membrey also I’d do it
A number of mids eg Williams (FA?) no trade needed but RCD, Caldwell even Constable at Cats and even a Crouch if it’s just cash but injuries worry me there
Anyway, if I could use Billings to snag 2 of those mids I’d also do that

[bigred]

Just one question with all of the above.

Is it going to get us closer to a flag?

In all honesty that needs to be the first question asked when going throught the motions.

Is bringing in Gunston and trading out Membrey going to put us closer to a flag?

[takeaway]

Just one question with all of the above.

Is it going to get us closer to a flag?

In all honesty that needs to be the first question asked when going throught the motions.

Is bringing in Gunston and trading out Membrey going to put us closer to a flag?

No, I don't think so.

Gunston is almost 29, Membrey 26. You always overpay when getting an established player in, I can't see the logic.

Anyway, over the last 5 years, since Membrey started playing full seasons with Saints, even though playing in less games, he has kicked and averaged more goals than Gunston, averaged the same no. of marks, and kicked more accurately. So no thanks.

Gunston is a good player, and would be handy, but not at the cost of Membrey.

[footynut]

Gunston is a great idea, however we should, use Carlise to facilitate a trade for Bailey Smith and Caldwell & shake the tree for Coniglio (long shot). Then utilise Gunston at CHB.

[shanegrambeau]

Gunston, just too good to be true. And 29.

Knee, Ankle and Back issues ...and 29.

Good for having a cup of tea with Mr Hannebery in the stands?

Still...gotta say. Our forward line would look better with him there, no doubt. He might actually be our best forward based on current performance.

[bigred]

lol...

Didnt Coniglio just sign a 7 year deal for about 1M per year?

[Teflon]

Just one question with all of the above.

Is it going to get us closer to a flag?

In all honesty that needs to be the first question asked when going throught the motions.

Is bringing in Gunston and trading out Membrey going to put us closer to a flag?

You get closer to a flag with better players
Gunston has been AA for reason Membrey no
Gunston also plays taller and I’m sorry but I’ve seen bot players kick for goal in crunch moments and I’m taking Gunston all
He also plays taller while Membrey is outsized every week
Gunston hasn’t missed whole seasons with injury that’s myth
He’s a genuine alternative lead up forward option
Membrey is a mid sized forward who when up against the big boys is clearly outgunned
Gunston has done ok this year too......in a very ordinary side....not a bad indicator

[Teflon]

Just one question with all of the above.

Is it going to get us closer to a flag?

In all honesty that needs to be the first question asked when going throught the motions.

Is bringing in Gunston and trading out Membrey going to put us closer to a flag?

No, I don't think so.

Gunston is almost 29, Membrey 26. You always overpay when getting an established player in, I can't see the logic.

Anyway, over the last 5 years, since Membrey started playing full seasons with Saints, even though playing in less games, he has kicked and averaged more goals than Gunston, averaged the same no. of marks, and kicked more accurately. So no thanks.

Gunston is a good player, and would be handy, but not at the cost of Membrey.

With all due respect avg stats this year have Billings ahead of Bont in many areas
I know who I’m taking

[takeaway]

Just one question with all of the above.

Is it going to get us closer to a flag?

In all honesty that needs to be the first question asked when going throught the motions.

Is bringing in Gunston and trading out Membrey going to put us closer to a flag?

No, I don't think so.

Gunston is almost 29, Membrey 26. You always overpay when getting an established player in, I can't see the logic.

Anyway, over the last 5 years, since Membrey started playing full seasons with Saints, even though playing in less games, he has kicked and averaged more goals than Gunston, averaged the same no. of marks, and kicked more accurately. So no thanks.

Gunston is a good player, and would be handy, but not at the cost of Membrey.

With all due respect avg stats this year have Billings ahead of Bont in many areas
I know who I’m taking

No they don't, Bont is ahead in virtually all avg stats. I'd take Bont over Billings too, but rate Billings higher than you.

Membrey stays. Billings stays. If we can somehow get Gunston using Carlisle, I would go for it. Not sure Carlisle has much trade value at all.

[samoht]

Time to get "ruthless" with "Savage," - "Savagely ruthless" it seems this year - and with "Battle" who seemed to lose favour for a while, there.
Savage Battle, indeed.
What's next?
Hopefully it won't become a" Long, Savage Battle" - that would really be ruthless - even brutal.

[SaintPav]

Time to get ruthless?

More like time for someone to cover their mirror, again.

[Teflon]

Just one question with all of the above.

Is it going to get us closer to a flag?

In all honesty that needs to be the first question asked when going throught the motions.

Is bringing in Gunston and trading out Membrey going to put us closer to a flag?

No, I don't think so.

Gunston is almost 29, Membrey 26. You always overpay when getting an established player in, I can't see the logic.

Anyway, over the last 5 years, since Membrey started playing full seasons with Saints, even though playing in less games, he has kicked and averaged more goals than Gunston, averaged the same no. of marks, and kicked more accurately. So no thanks.

Gunston is a good player, and would be handy, but not at the cost of Membrey.

With all due respect avg stats this year have Billings ahead of Bont in many areas
I know who I’m taking

No they don't, Bont is ahead in virtually all avg stats. I'd take Bont over Billings too, but rate Billings higher than you.

Membrey stays. Billings stays. If we can somehow get Gunston using Carlisle, I would go for it. Not sure Carlisle has much trade value at all.

Sorry correct on Bont he’s a superstar

But If I look at avg disposal this year Martin sits at 46 and Billings at 55.....but the point is we all know that gaps a little larger than what stats might suggest don’t we?
One shows up in big games and wins matches ....the other not so much...
I rate on what I see and after 7 years I reckon we’ve seen the best Jack as a HFF (that’s what he really is) has to offer if you could use him to prize a v good mid from another club why wouldn’t you ??

[Toy Saint]

I'm of the view that we need to build a team around our home-grown talent, and supported by bolt-on players from other clubs:

Steele, Marshall, Billings, Coffield, Hunter Clark, King, Josh Battle, Luke Dunstan and Paton are ' home grown keepers' in my mind. And I'm still cranky we lost Acres.

Butler, Ryder, Jones, Howard , Membrey, & Hill have been useful additions who we should keep.

Guys like Sinclair, Long, Lonie & Wilkie are decent depth players, probably not high value on the open market, but often in our best available 20.

Aside from these guys I can't visualize any others in our next premiership team.