Time to get ruthless

[Toy Saint]

I'd keep Billings, Ross & Dunstan

[Wayne42]

How many of the players that should be "culled" have contracts for 2021 but ZERO trade value.

That puts the list rebuild in a quandry, can't waste salary cap paying out delisted, contracted players.

[Teflon]

I'd keep Billings, Ross & Dunstan

This is the temptation that holds us back
You have to move players on while they have some currency- Hawks were masters at it
JB has most to offer from that group

[Trev from the Bush]

I reckon we need to ban the opposition, we would win more. But I doubt even that would please many posters.

[stkfc1]

Good calls Teflon. Membrey the only one I'd disagree. Yes he's had a poor year but we just haven't worked out our forward structure properly and our delivery is just awful. You'd hate to be a forward in our team at the moment. Wouldn't be surprised if he's playing with a few niggles also.

Billings, Ross, Savage, Dunstan and Webster probably are the ones we could/should move on for best return. I think we can cover their loss. Im not saying I want all of the above gone, just being realistic regarding value. Billings is the one that's disappointing but he's stalled big time and maybe it's best for both parties. If Carlise isn't getting a game now then he's on that list too.

We have way too many smalls not doing enough. Kent, Parker Hind and Lonie. Two should go.

Geary, Robbo are probably done. Thanks you your service.
DMac is obviously not required. (That 3 year contact was ridiculous). The rest, wait and see.

[groupie1]

Ross, Savage, Dunstan, Webster, Carlisle should have some trade value with Geary offered a dignified exit would be the first calls I'd be making. Keeping Billings. Keeping Skunk.

[footynut]

Great post Teflon. I believe a measure of where our list sits is that only Marshall, Steele and possibly Hill would get a game at Geelong and at the other end of the scale Kent, Hind, Lonie and Parker would struggle to get a game anywhere else

Thanks not entirely true. Howard, Carlisle, Clark, Coffield, Butler, Gresh, Jones, Wilkie, & Battle would get a game. As there structure is so much better.

(Despite Tiger proving that if you pressure them [man up] in their back half & don't allow them time to set up they're beatable).

[Yorkeys]

GWS' list looks gettable, there seems to be trouble in heaven in Western Sydney. Who knows we might even develop some of our own list players e.g. Leo C can play, I heard his gig from the Boatshed. Using Ed P as a selection yoyo is bizarre, give him an extended go at it. I expect us to top up shrewdly during trade period/draft and Ratts to be free in 2021 from the footy director's constraint to play "more mature bodies" to make finals. It has proved a failed short term strategy i.e. Hind, Kent. (*note this comment draws heavily on ignorance as I know nothing of what Ratts is actually being told and Leo's musical ability. I do know Ed is better value in the side than not.)

[fugazi]

How many of the players that should be "culled" have contracts for 2021 but ZERO trade value.

That puts the list rebuild in a quandry, can't waste salary cap paying out delisted, contracted players.

How did D Mac get 3 years?
Not one person in football understood that at the time
We were so worried someone was going to poach out back up emergency depth 8th best half back flanker??

[Teflon]

How many of the players that should be "culled" have contracts for 2021 but ZERO trade value.

That puts the list rebuild in a quandry, can't waste salary cap paying out delisted, contracted players.

How did D Mac get 3 years?
Not one person in football understood that at the time
We were so worried someone was going to poach out back up emergency depth 8th best half back flanker??

That’s a classic case of us overrating our players
Good sides know where their players sit in the market
3 years he must’ve thought it was Xmas.....

[skeptic]

How many of the players that should be "culled" have contracts for 2021 but ZERO trade value.

That puts the list rebuild in a quandry, can't waste salary cap paying out delisted, contracted players.

How did D Mac get 3 years?
Not one person in football understood that at the time
We were so worried someone was going to poach out back up emergency depth 8th best half back flanker??

That’s a classic case of us overrating our players
Good sides know where their players sit in the market
3 years he must’ve thought it was Xmas.....

That last little patch of Richo’s time coincided with what can only be called as baffling list management decisions...
Dmac extended for 3 years
Joyce extended for years
Hannebery for 5 seasons
Kent brought in for 3

Judgement around the place was really poor

[takeaway]

I like Dmac, should be given a better go. He was given a 3 year contract as he is a like for like replacement for Gears.

[Teflon]

I like Dmac, should be given a better go. He was given a 3 year contract as he is a like for like replacement for Gears.

Kicking suspect can we really afford to bring in poor users of the ball?

When the heat goes on in a game it exposes us now
Eagles very clean the other night ....for a reason

[bangaulegend]

TBO I don't think we have a ruthless bone in our body but thats only my onion

[takeaway]

I like Dmac, should be given a better go. He was given a 3 year contract as he is a like for like replacement for Gears.

Kicking suspect can we really afford to bring in poor users of the ball?

When the heat goes on in a game it exposes us now
Eagles very clean the other night ....for a reason

Probably not, seeing you are trading two of our best kicks, Billings & Membrey.

Then again, I'd still give DMac a go, a few chaos kicks ( a la Richmond) sometimes are better than bombs in the air to a pack.

[Teflon]

I like Dmac, should be given a better go. He was given a 3 year contract as he is a like for like replacement for Gears.

Kicking suspect can we really afford to bring in poor users of the ball?

When the heat goes on in a game it exposes us now
Eagles very clean the other night ....for a reason

Probably not, seeing you are trading two of our best kicks, Billings & Membrey.

Then again, I'd still give DMac a go, a few chaos kicks ( a la Richmond) sometimes are better than bombs in the air to a pack.

Membrey ??? Honestly he’s your gun kick???
We are in trouble
I actually reckon Battle is a better lead up forward option to play alongside King with Marshall deep on occasion
I think Membrey flies (off 2 feet) often gets pushed under the ball and doesn’t do much after it hits the deck
Battles marking ability and toughness up forward would change the look and maybe just give our forward entries a target and who knows....maybe help out our terrible entries???
Membrey is tradeable IMO
Anyhoo let’s keep doing the same then asking after honorable close losses why nothing changes....

[st.byron]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/doe ... 55v27.html

This is what I want to hear from Ratten. Doesn’t matter who you are. No-one is a protected species if they don’t perform. We’ve had so much of that through Cho’s incumbency and some of Ratten’s selections have the same flavour.

[takeaway]

I like Dmac, should be given a better go. He was given a 3 year contract as he is a like for like replacement for Gears.

Kicking suspect can we really afford to bring in poor users of the ball?

When the heat goes on in a game it exposes us now
Eagles very clean the other night ....for a reason

Probably not, seeing you are trading two of our best kicks, Billings & Membrey.

Then again, I'd still give DMac a go, a few chaos kicks ( a la Richmond) sometimes are better than bombs in the air to a pack.

Membrey ??? Honestly he’s your gun kick???
We are in trouble
I actually reckon Battle is a better lead up forward option to play alongside King with Marshall deep on occasion
I think Membrey flies (off 2 feet) often gets pushed under the ball and doesn’t do much after it hits the deck
Battles marking ability and toughness up forward would change the look and maybe just give our forward entries a target and who knows....maybe help out our terrible entries???
Membrey is tradeable IMO
Anyhoo let’s keep doing the same then asking after honorable close losses why nothing changes....

So you think Membrey's not a good kick? er.....OK. His vertical leap ability has stood him in good stead for quite a few years now, kicked plenty of goals because of it, and it helps when the lead in kick is a bit high, which is a Saint's trait. Membrey is only 26. Battle? I like him, probably best as a utility, there is hardly a body of evidence to say he would succeed as a permanent forward, might make us top heavy. You are taking a punt whereas Membrey is proven.

Anyhoo, I'm not against sensible trades to improve the team, but if you are looking at asset stripping the club you need to state the aim/targets. Who are you after that will put us on the positive side of the ledger after losing Billings & Membrey? For instance, Kelly? Would take at least 2 first round draft picks and only a very remote chance anyway. He's been a bit injury prone as well lately. We would still be on the debit side. A few names would help your case, and not FAs.

[spert]

IF we miss out on finals, I reckon heads will roll big time.

[saint6709]

I would

Retire
Gears
Brown (already)

Try to get trade value for
Carlisle
Dunstan
Ross
Billings
Webster

Move on
Kent
Hind
Dmac
Joyce (?)
Maybe some others

If we can find another decent big back
One of clarivino and Austin can probably go

Keep Robbo and hanna as wise heads setting standards

Billings only goes if the trade is right

Some guys will need paying out if they can’t be traded - bad luck p

Can’t probably let everyone in the above group go but I’d be ok with any or all of the above happening

Get Lenny back and clean a few out in the coaches as well

[Teflon]

I like Dmac, should be given a better go. He was given a 3 year contract as he is a like for like replacement for Gears.

Kicking suspect can we really afford to bring in poor users of the ball?

When the heat goes on in a game it exposes us now
Eagles very clean the other night ....for a reason

Probably not, seeing you are trading two of our best kicks, Billings & Membrey.

Then again, I'd still give DMac a go, a few chaos kicks ( a la Richmond) sometimes are better than bombs in the air to a pack.

Membrey ??? Honestly he’s your gun kick???
We are in trouble
I actually reckon Battle is a better lead up forward option to play alongside King with Marshall deep on occasion
I think Membrey flies (off 2 feet) often gets pushed under the ball and doesn’t do much after it hits the deck
Battles marking ability and toughness up forward would change the look and maybe just give our forward entries a target and who knows....maybe help out our terrible entries???
Membrey is tradeable IMO
Anyhoo let’s keep doing the same then asking after honorable close losses why nothing changes....

So you think Membrey's not a good kick? er.....OK. His vertical leap ability has stood him in good stead for quite a few years now, kicked plenty of goals because of it, and it helps when the lead in kick is a bit high, which is a Saint's trait. Membrey is only 26. Battle? I like him, probably best as a utility, there is hardly a body of evidence to say he would succeed as a permanent forward, might make us top heavy. You are taking a punt whereas Membrey is proven.

Anyhoo, I'm not against sensible trades to improve the team, but if you are looking at asset stripping the club you need to state the aim/targets. Who are you after that will put us on the positive side of the ledger after losing Billings & Membrey? For instance, Kelly? Would take at least 2 first round draft picks and only a very remote chance anyway. He's been a bit injury prone as well lately. We would still be on the debit side. A few names would help your case, and not FAs.

Ok let’s stop being silly for the sake
We aren’t getting Kelly but gee....that injury prone Kelly was v good last night in a big game ????
Membrey has moments - who would I replace him with if Zi could ???
Gunston at Hawks alongside King has a nice ring to it ...better kick AA and top 7 Coleman this year in a s*** side
Why
Battle has played key forward roles as a junior and every time he’s gone forward he’s looked dangerous, hit the kicker with a strong lead ....but you carry on hoping Membrey (a 3rd option at best) is going to save us..
What other names ?? Geee let’s see thinking improving midfield I dunno...
Caldwell - looks great is young still has upside
RDC from Tigers (they’re keen to keep him as he has talent but can’t get a game....would walk into our midfield)
Constable at Geelong???? Can’t crack their midfield (it’s pretty good) would be playing regularly in ours
Zac Willians????
What about Moore from Pies as they struggle with cap issues to replace Carlisle??????
There’s some names for ya ....now tell me again why sticking Membrey and Billings is your way to our next flag ??

[Impatient Sainter]

[/quote]

Membrey ??? Honestly he’s your gun kick???
We are in trouble
I actually reckon Battle is a better lead up forward option to play alongside King with Marshall deep on occasion
I think Membrey flies (off 2 feet) often gets pushed under the ball and doesn’t do much after it hits the deck
Battles marking ability and toughness up forward would change the look and maybe just give our forward entries a target and who knows....maybe help out our terrible entries???
Membrey is tradeable IMO
Anyhoo let’s keep doing the same then asking after honorable close losses why nothing changes....
[/quote]

I think eventually Marshall will be the No 1 ruckman so we will have to find a tall forward who can ruck eg Ben King. That being the case perhaps Battle plays further up the ground or defence. Membrey has been solid without having dominant games, but there is no way would I trade him out.

[takeaway]

I like Dmac, should be given a better go. He was given a 3 year contract as he is a like for like replacement for Gears.

Kicking suspect can we really afford to bring in poor users of the ball?

When the heat goes on in a game it exposes us now
Eagles very clean the other night ....for a reason

Probably not, seeing you are trading two of our best kicks, Billings & Membrey.

Then again, I'd still give DMac a go, a few chaos kicks ( a la Richmond) sometimes are better than bombs in the air to a pack.

Membrey ??? Honestly he’s your gun kick???
We are in trouble
I actually reckon Battle is a better lead up forward option to play alongside King with Marshall deep on occasion
I think Membrey flies (off 2 feet) often gets pushed under the ball and doesn’t do much after it hits the deck
Battles marking ability and toughness up forward would change the look and maybe just give our forward entries a target and who knows....maybe help out our terrible entries???
Membrey is tradeable IMO
Anyhoo let’s keep doing the same then asking after honorable close losses why nothing changes....

So you think Membrey's not a good kick? er.....OK. His vertical leap ability has stood him in good stead for quite a few years now, kicked plenty of goals because of it, and it helps when the lead in kick is a bit high, which is a Saint's trait. Membrey is only 26. Battle? I like him, probably best as a utility, there is hardly a body of evidence to say he would succeed as a permanent forward, might make us top heavy. You are taking a punt whereas Membrey is proven.

Anyhoo, I'm not against sensible trades to improve the team, but if you are looking at asset stripping the club you need to state the aim/targets. Who are you after that will put us on the positive side of the ledger after losing Billings & Membrey? For instance, Kelly? Would take at least 2 first round draft picks and only a very remote chance anyway. He's been a bit injury prone as well lately. We would still be on the debit side. A few names would help your case, and not FAs.

Ok let’s stop being silly for the sake
We aren’t getting Kelly but gee....that injury prone Kelly was v good last night in a big game ????
Membrey has moments - who would I replace him with if Zi could ???
Gunston at Hawks alongside King has a nice ring to it ...better kick AA and top 7 Coleman this year in a s*** side
Why
Battle has played key forward roles as a junior and every time he’s gone forward he’s looked dangerous, hit the kicker with a strong lead ....but you carry on hoping Membrey (a 3rd option at best) is going to save us..
What other names ?? Geee let’s see thinking improving midfield I dunno...
Caldwell - looks great is young still has upside
RDC from Tigers (they’re keen to keep him as he has talent but can’t get a game....would walk into our midfield)
Constable at Geelong???? Can’t crack their midfield (it’s pretty good) would be playing regularly in ours
Zac Willians????
What about Moore from Pies as they struggle with cap issues to replace Carlisle??????
There’s some names for ya ....now tell me again why sticking Membrey and Billings is your way to our next flag ??

That's better.
Gunston would be good, but signed till 2022, very unlikely, we would have to massively overpay, no thanks.
I have never said I am hoping Membrey is going to save us, more I am hoping King will mature & get more strength, and we need to sort out our forward entries, leads and spacing- that's mainly coaching. Battle can still drift in there.
Caldwell - fully agree, don't need to trade Billings or Membrey to get him.
RDC? Haven't seen much of him, hasn't got a game yet. Tigers won't let him go.
Constable? 9 games total, OK but would rather Caldwell. Again, no need to trade Billings/Membrey.
Zac Williams? Yes please, but RFA so no need to trade.
Moore? Fat chance. Love him to replace Carlisle though, but our backs are OK with enough depth.

I would be happy with Caldwell & Williams, assuming Ryder can go another year at least. Can do that and retain Billings & Membrey. Billings/Gresham can play forward as well.

My main concern is the seemingly inflexible/one game plan coaching.

[older saint]

With respect strongly disagree. Firstly, who honestly would have thought we would be a chance of finals going in to the final round. One eyed optimists or those with a crystal ball . Yes you need to change to move forward but good teams develop over time. Richmond 2016 didn't through the toys out of the cot as they believed in the pieces they had accrued, Geelong 2006 the same.
Knee jerk reactions very rarely see success. I am trying to think of a side which appeared on the way up , made massive changes and then were successful. Please help me out if i am wrong.

Membrey and Billings are important parts of this squad, yes their role may need to change but not benefit in trading out getting a new 18 year old in and going back another 3 years.
To me Carlisle obviously has an attitude issue and therefore requires a decision made. Dunstan is not in our best 15 and others such as Kent, Parker etc are fringe and depth players which good teams have as the option of replacement with an 18 year old in the 4th round leaves a club open to issues when injuries occur.

Geary i agree is on his last legs , we from outside will never appreciate the role in leadership he plays and many just see the offensive errors, not the defensive side of his game and direction . Thanks for the service .
Ross is one which role may need to be changed, again though you need foot soldiers.

I feel we are on the way up , have a very young list which will get better over time just with growth - Clark, Coffield, Brynes, Bytel, King, Gresham, Long, Paton, Marshall, Battle- there is nearly half a side with improvement in it if work hard just due to experience and physical development. Surround that with bigger bodies, Jones, Ross, Steele, Howard, Membrey, Butler, Hill , Hannebry, Billings.

Strategically add but have a solid core. Premiership teams have players who are role players , not stars who are important and IF tis group wants to get there we need them- this is the issue with GWS too many Stars and no foot soldiers. - Guys like Vandenberg, Hutchings, Leigh Brown, spring to mind, heck we had them in Blake and Gilbert for years.

Hopefully we beat GWS and anything form there this year is a bonus to me. I believe we need to strategically build but we also need to have depth - RL (like him or not) did the first part just failed on the second . Richmond and before than Hawthorn did both and it was only this year due to $$ did Richmond off load anyone - Ellis.

JMO

[Teflon]

With respect strongly disagree. Firstly, who honestly would have thought we would be a chance of finals going in to the final round. One eyed optimists or those with a crystal ball . Yes you need to change to move forward but good teams develop over time. Richmond 2016 didn't through the toys out of the cot as they believed in the pieces they had accrued, Geelong 2006 the same.
Knee jerk reactions very rarely see success. I am trying to think of a side which appeared on the way up , made massive changes and then were successful. Please help me out if i am wrong.

Membrey and Billings are important parts of this squad, yes their role may need to change but not benefit in trading out getting a new 18 year old in and going back another 3 years.
To me Carlisle obviously has an attitude issue and therefore requires a decision made. Dunstan is not in our best 15 and others such as Kent, Parker etc are fringe and depth players which good teams have as the option of replacement with an 18 year old in the 4th round leaves a club open to issues when injuries occur.

Geary i agree is on his last legs , we from outside will never appreciate the role in leadership he plays and many just see the offensive errors, not the defensive side of his game and direction . Thanks for the service .
Ross is one which role may need to be changed, again though you need foot soldiers.

I feel we are on the way up , have a very young list which will get better over time just with growth - Clark, Coffield, Brynes, Bytel, King, Gresham, Long, Paton, Marshall, Battle- there is nearly half a side with improvement in it if work hard just due to experience and physical development. Surround that with bigger bodies, Jones, Ross, Steele, Howard, Membrey, Butler, Hill , Hannebry, Billings.

Strategically add but have a solid core. Premiership teams have players who are role players , not stars who are important and IF tis group wants to get there we need them- this is the issue with GWS too many Stars and no foot soldiers. - Guys like Vandenberg, Hutchings, Leigh Brown, spring to mind, heck we had them in Blake and Gilbert for years.

Hopefully we beat GWS and anything form there this year is a bonus to me. I believe we need to strategically build but we also need to have depth - RL (like him or not) did the first part just failed on the second . Richmond and before than Hawthorn did both and it was only this year due to $$ did Richmond off load anyone - Ellis.

JMO

Good post
Can’t agree at all
I don’t think a Billings trade (for the right price) after 6 years is knee jerk and Membrey is at best medium sized 3rd tall option who is inconsistent
I’m sorry but I’ve seen enough games when things get tough and these guys - who ought to be leaders by now simply vanish and let us down. I refuse to blame Max King a kid got that.
Bottom line is good sides do trade players with value to get - Sydney have gone it for years..,.traded Membrey
We overrate our list chronically and miss the opportunity
IMO