Baffling selections costing us any chance

[Moods]

We were playing a team that have incredibly strong contested markers all over the ground. Darling, Kennedy, McGovern, Barrass, Ryan, Allan. Nik Nat not so much a contested marking beast but very competitive in the air. Almost all the players are strong overhead.

We have a $700k a year key position 200cm player in Carlisle just languishing in the stands. Put a rocket up him and get him out on the ground! OR stop lying at selection and telling us he's not injured if he is. Absolute joke watching WC pull down contested mark after contested mark last night. They scored several goals from either marking it or us infringing because we were panicking when the ball was in the air. I can only think that Carlisle has a trigger on his contract if he plays a certain amount of games and the club doesn't want to activate that trigger because they want to trade him. What a waste of money. IN the last 3 years I can barely think of one game where Carlisle was our best player, now the club thinks so lowly of him that they won't pick him in a game that was crucial and he had perfect match ups

AND - if we can't play Carlisle for whatever reason, then FFS play Roberton, Claravino, even Webster. They all have a bit of size about them.

If we're going for a small fast team then surely the plan is to run them off their legs and keep the ball on the deck. The high energy, play on style has gone missing from the 1st half of the year. The boys tried hard and tackled well for little reward from the umpires. But confidence has been sapped and we've reverted back to 2019 in so many ways. Can't kick gettable goals. Fwd entries are woeful. Skill level is down. I've said it before, 1st half of year we were a top 4 team, 2nd half we have been a bottom 6 team. Not being able to get over an injury riddled WC playing their 5th game in 19 days really shows where we are at. We were missing Hanneberry and Gresh, one who is injury prone and the other a b-c grade mid.

[bergsone]

We were playing a team that have incredibly strong contested markers all over the ground. Darling, Kennedy, McGovern, Barrass, Ryan, Allan. Nik Nat not so much a contested marking beast but very competitive in the air. Almost all the players are strong overhead.

We have a $700k a year key position 200cm player in Carlisle just languishing in the stands. Put a rocket up him and get him out on the ground! OR stop lying at selection and telling us he's not injured if he is. Absolute joke watching WC pull down contested mark after contested mark last night. They scored several goals from either marking it or us infringing because we were panicking when the ball was in the air. I can only think that Carlisle has a trigger on his contract if he plays a certain amount of games and the club doesn't want to activate that trigger because they want to trade him. What a waste of money. IN the last 3 years I can barely think of one game where Carlisle was our best player, now the club thinks so lowly of him that they won't pick him in a game that was crucial and he had perfect match ups

AND - if we can't play Carlisle for whatever reason, then FFS play Roberton, Claravino, even Webster. They all have a bit of size about them.

If we're going for a small fast team then surely the plan is to run them off their legs and keep the ball on the deck. The high energy, play on style has gone missing from the 1st half of the year. The boys tried hard and tackled well for little reward from the umpires. But confidence has been sapped and we've reverted back to 2019 in so many ways. Can't kick gettable goals. Fwd entries are woeful. Skill level is down. I've said it before, 1st half of year we were a top 4 team, 2nd half we have been a bottom 6 team. Not being able to get over an injury riddled WC playing their 5th game in 19 days really shows where we are at. We were missing Hanneberry and Gresh, one who is injury prone and the other a b-c grade mid.

Agree with all of this,cant understand how Kent,Hind keep getting games.Cant remember Kent even getting a stat Savage Bytel offer more imo

[shanegrambeau]

Yep.

How they thought Coffield was a good match for Darling - befuddles. What was going through their heads?
If they’d picked Clay for his first game and plonked him on Darling? That might have been strange too...obviously Carlisle.
Would Roberton have been better?

Their excuse would be that they were not trying compete with WC for marking, just use speed and ground ball. But we do not have the skills and smarts for that.

We need a midfielder with the class of that Kelly.

What would be going through Carlisle’s head in the stands? His mrs and their baby I suppose. But whatever cognitive ability was left for football processing, what would he be thinking? When they review the tape this week, what will Carlisle proffer?

[beebarry]

agreed,

I have been glass half full with Kent and Hind this year but they were no where to be seen last night. We also dont have a forward that actually leads. Members can lead, Max can lead ....but they just dont .....baffling ...We also lack so much class in the midfield. Even with Gresh and Hanners in there, even Dunstan, we are still 2 class mids short.

really disappointed last night . was hoping for something that just isnt there yet. Hoping Ratts is brutal at selection next week, If Carlisle and Hanners are fit then they are in. Hell if they 90% then just roll the dice. Lose and its our last game for the year. Hind out. Kent out. No worrying about finals - just need to get some structure back.

[suss]

"Baffling" doesn't quite do justice to the decision to omit Carlisle. It deserves a Royal Commission.

And why the **** can't Dylan Roberton get a game. Either his heart is fixed or broken. If it's the former, then play him. If it's the latter, then retire him.

[Life Long Saint]

We also dont have a forward that actually leads. Members can lead, Max can lead ....but they just dont .....baffling ...We also lack so much class in the midfield. Even with Gresh and Hanners in there, even Dunstan, we are still 2 class mids short.

I've been thinking about that...How many of our midfielders would you, as a leading forward, be confident leading towards and not have the ball land 5m short or 5m long?
I think the ones I'd be 100% confident on is Hill and Hannebery.

[realdeal]

Yep.

How they thought Coffield was a good match for Darling - befuddles. What was going through their heads?
If they’d picked Clay for his first game and plonked him on Darling? That might have been strange too...obviously Carlisle.
Would Roberton have been better?

Their excuse would be that they were not trying compete with WC for marking, just use speed and ground ball. But we do not have the skills and smarts for that.

We need a midfielder with the class of that Kelly.

What would be going through Carlisle’s head in the stands? His mrs and their baby I suppose. But whatever cognitive ability was left for football processing, what would he be thinking? When they review the tape this week, what will Carlisle proffer?

Exactly.. and if that was our game plan why did we continually kick the ball randomally up in the air t our fwds.. id have preferred us to just do grubber kicks aling the fround than picking out WC defenders at will.

[skeptic]

The sad indictment on the small forwards is that Max King had I think three shots on goal that he crumbed himself. That’s close to the equal of the combined shots on goal from all of the small forwards in Lonie, Kent, Hind and Butler

It boggles the mind that so many of the same type of player is being chosen so consistently

There is no argument in my mind that Savage, even not having trained with the forwards, wouldn’t have offered more as a forward pocket then Kent did.

Heck swing Long up forward and put Savage.

Anything other than continuously playing not contributing players

[on the outer]

Darling kicked 2 goals one of those was on a lead that maybe Usain bolt could have spoiled, Kennedy kicked 1, maybe Carlisle would have spoiled the Oscar Alan mark on the goal liNe but on balance I can’t see Carlisle making that much difference on balance I thought the backline did pretty well.The problem is our forward line or the delivery into our forward line 2 goals from Marshall, Membrey and King is just not enough. Particularly when Membrey one goal was a long bomb from outside 50.

[takeaway]

Darling kicked 2 goals one of those was on a lead that maybe Usain bolt could have spoiled, Kennedy kicked 1, maybe Carlisle would have spoiled the Oscar Alan mark on the goal liNe but on balance I can’t see Carlisle making that much difference on balance I thought the backline did pretty well.The problem is our forward line or the delivery into our forward line 2 goals from Marshall, Membrey and King is just not enough. Particularly when Membrey one goal was a long bomb from outside 50.

Agree, I don't think Carlisle would have made much difference. Couldn't play on Darling, too quick, even Kennedy on a lead a bit quick, would have taken Allen, maybe might have spoiled that mark, but then again Howard & Ryder were there & should have knocked it through.

As you say, forward line entry and efficiency is the problem, we get it in there often enough. Ryder got a goal as well, King should have had 2, but teams are now negating our game plan, and we haven't come up with alternatives. Over to the coaching - we need more variety.

[samoht]

We recruit the wrong players - who are too slow or not agile enough (Carlisle), or too this or too that (maybe injury prone, can't win their own ball, one-sided, too fumbly, etc) - and then wonder why things haven't turned out better.

It starts and ends with recruiting - getting a new coach is just plastering over the recruitment cracks.

Whether it's AR, BR ... CR it doesn't make any difference who the coach is (how is Clarko going this year?) - we need to get the recruiting right and go after players with X factor who won't let you down and who will make a difference, especially during the important moments in crunch games.

You need to assess the players properly before you go out and recruit them.
We haven't learned.

[shanegrambeau]

Darling kicked 2 goals one of those was on a lead that maybe Usain bolt could have spoiled, Kennedy kicked 1, maybe Carlisle would have spoiled the Oscar Alan mark on the goal liNe but on balance I can’t see Carlisle making that much difference on balance I thought the backline did pretty well.The problem is our forward line or the delivery into our forward line 2 goals from Marshall, Membrey and King is just not enough. Particularly when Membrey one goal was a long bomb from outside 50.

Agree, I don't think Carlisle would have made much difference. Couldn't play on Darling, too quick, even Kennedy on a lead a bit quick, would have taken Allen, maybe might have spoiled that mark, but then again Howard & Ryder were there & should have knocked it through.

As you say, forward line entry and efficiency is the problem, we get it in there often enough. Ryder got a goal as well, King should have had 2, but teams are now negating our game plan, and we haven't come up with alternatives. Over to the coaching - we need more variety.

I disagree.
Carlisle would have made a huge difference IMO.
When Kelly collected from that Jones burst that ended up lost in the eye of the typhoon (and that is another story that needs to be discussed, because Jones did so well to barrel through - only to be totally confused for options - turnover, Kelly-Dartling-goal) and one kick lace out to Darling, I agree that Carlisle would have been left behind - if he was playing one-on-one and dutifully toiling behind Darling. But Carlisle doesn’t play that way. he changes the whole dynamic of the back line. He fills up spaces and runs in different lines. H would have popped up for intercept marks in those open spaces last night. Those spaces were open because our backs played so honestly and reactively. Carlisle is a rogue, a wanderer. IMO it was a big loss. Not a coaches favorite it seems.

[Scollop]

The sad indictment on the small forwards is that Max King had I think three shots on goal that he crumbed himself. That’s close to the equal of the combined shots on goal from all of the small forwards in Lonie, Kent, Hind and Butler

It boggles the mind that so many of the same type of player is being chosen so consistently

There is no argument in my mind that Savage, even not having trained with the forwards, wouldn’t have offered more as a forward pocket then Kent did.

Heck swing Long up forward and put Savage.

Anything other than continuously playing not contributing players

I like it. The experiment on the half back line has served us and him well so far, but Longy should be playing forward

Savage or Roberton or Webster can fill his spot and Clark should be playing predominantly in the midfield

King had a poor patch due to fatigue and it may have impacted his confidence. Not having Roughhead alongside him for training in the last 3 months has been significant. Ratts would have been better off giving him another week off and then bring him in against the slimmer and shorter GWS backline

On Carlisle: I don’t think it was our backline who cost us. I don’t think Jake would have made a difference playing down back. I would have sat him down and told him that he has to play in the forward line against West Coast. King had some opportunities that Jake would have probably marked and probably converted. Jake was and is a very accurate set shot kick

[sks023]

Carlisle hardly put a foot wrong this season and he could have been thrown forward last night if he was out there

[freely]

Carlisle hardly put a foot wrong this season and he could have been thrown forward last night if he was out there

When has that tactic ever had any useful result?

[Scollop]

Carlisle hardly put a foot wrong this season and he could have been thrown forward last night if he was out there

When has that tactic ever had any useful result?

I agree that it hasn’t worked and therefore I’d be lining him up there and playing him forward for the full game.

If he is told that you have a choice of playing as a forward or not playing at all, which option do you think he’d take?

He’s a simple fella, so if his coaches tell him it’s his job and maybe just tell him 1-2 days before the game, then he doesn’t have to stew on it for too long

Jake is a good footballer. It comes pretty natural to him to mark a floating footy and that’s exactly what the Saints have been doing under pressure in games. We’ve been bombing it to the hotspot. Jake will obviously have a defender on his tail, but by giving Jake clear instructions and giving him time to plan his game I think it can work

[sks023]

Carlisle hardly put a foot wrong this season and he could have been thrown forward last night if he was out there

When has that tactic ever had any useful result?

Carlisle kicked eight for the bombers vs Bulldogs in 2014.
Not many with that resume

[Teflon]

Carlisle not the answer to our crap froward delivery output
We were all over them in the last quarter had about 4 goes ta it from scroungy rubbish play got 2 good loos from Hill and king and couldn’t compose when it mattered.
I still maintain Battle forward as another marking option and lead up one at that takes pressure off a short Membrey who is outsized all the time and should be getting 3rd best defender tbh
We are getting pl3nty of entries we try to play like Richmond...without the skill...

[Scollop]

Carlisle hardly put a foot wrong this season and he could have been thrown forward last night if he was out there

When has that tactic ever had any useful result?

Carlisle kicked eight for the bombers vs Bulldogs in 2014.
Not many with that resume

Spot on. As I said, he is a very good set shot and we could pull off some surprises and mismatches in our forward line.

Instead of relying on Lonie and Billings and Kent to do the crumbing (which hasn't generally worked) let's leave it up to Max, Tim and the mids.

People keep forgetting that these players had a different coach and different standards that were accepted for five years (or however long some of them have been with us).

If there is an issue with Jakes defending, then it's in his interest and in our interest to set some new goals and a new challenge

I reckon Jake when fit is an asset. When you have a footballer with his height and his marking ability it is crazy not to utilise him.

[fugazi]

Clearly issues between Carlisle and the Club.
Seemed to stem from around that Sydney game when he was punching Rampes injured hand.
I wonder if he got criticized, then put in an ordinary performance and then got dropped?

[CURLY]

Carlisle won't play to structures is why he is out of the team.

[Moods]

Carlisle won't play to structures is why he is out of the team.

What does that even mean?

[CURLY]

Carlisle won't play to structures is why he is out of the team.

What does that even mean?

Doesn't do what the coaching staff require in terms of team structue.

[SuperDuper]

Darling kicked 2 goals one of those was on a lead that maybe Usain bolt could have spoiled, Kennedy kicked 1, maybe Carlisle would have spoiled the Oscar Alan mark on the goal liNe but on balance I can’t see Carlisle making that much difference on balance I thought the backline did pretty well.The problem is our forward line or the delivery into our forward line 2 goals from Marshall, Membrey and King is just not enough. Particularly when Membrey one goal was a long bomb from outside 50.

Just off the top of my head I recall one mismatch of coffield on Darling cost one goal.. One mismatch of Paton on Kennedy one goal and one of Geary on Allen another. Then there was the Allen mark on the goal line that should have been spoiled. Carlisle was needed and I reckon would have made the difference .. Certainly would would have done more than Kent

[spert]

Darling kicked 2 goals one of those was on a lead that maybe Usain bolt could have spoiled, Kennedy kicked 1, maybe Carlisle would have spoiled the Oscar Alan mark on the goal liNe but on balance I can’t see Carlisle making that much difference on balance I thought the backline did pretty well.The problem is our forward line or the delivery into our forward line 2 goals from Marshall, Membrey and King is just not enough. Particularly when Membrey one goal was a long bomb from outside 50.

Marshall also gave away a really dumb 50m when we had it in our forward line.