Micky Milkshake on Ratts

[saynta]

From heraldsun.com.au

"Brett Ratten, 49, played 255 games with Carlton, won three best-and-fairests and a premiership. He coached Carlton for six seasons and I am sincerely rapt that he has been given a second chance with St Kilda. He has done the hard yards and been through the high and lows of coaching, which will work to his advantage. His players appear to love his style.

The Saints recruited brilliantly over the summer and younger players like Josh Battle and Hunter Clark have jumped ahead.

With fantastic speed, the Saints are playing good team football. The backline is reasonably solid, and the forward line can be dangerous. Young Max King will have his ups and downs early in his career, but by playing two ruckmen — Paddy Ryder and Rowan Marshall — Marshall can play forward to support King.

With the league’s best stopper, Jack Steele, in its midfield, the Saints will dominate weaker teams, but they are highly susceptible to the top clubs.

No side leaves the corridor gate open like St Kilda and that’s due to the unaccountability and work rate of the midfield. It is the Saints’ Achilles heel. If it tightens up and stops the opposition from waltzing through the middle, then they are genuine contenders, but there’s not a lot of games left to cement that play.y

Ratten tends to coach from the boundary which is good for getting a feel for the game. But you are stifled from seeing general play, so he may need to view the game from the coaches’ box, not in replay, to see more.

St Kilda supporters are clinging to the hope that their team will play finals. Destiny is in its own hands. Ratten needs to look at the losses to the top sides where it will be obvious where the main issue is, and address it. Then the Saints could do some serious damage come October.

It is difficult enough to coach without all the obstacles they’ve faced this season.

The football world does not take prisoners. It is brutal. The system itself will judge you. You are judged by supporters and the media. The players unconsciously judge you. And unfortunately your board judges you too.

A coach cannot be worried about outside noise. As time goes on, wins are celebrated for five minutes and losses last until the next chance for redemption.

But the art of coaching is intoxicating. To plan and execute and help your team win games of football, especially against more fancied opponents, is incredible, from your first season to your last. I hope they all remember that, and enjoy it.

[Trev from the Bush]

Good observation, reckon Mick is spot on.

[fugazi]

Defensive running in the midfield the Achilles heel.

In which case the defence really has held up well given the quality of ball coming into the D50.

We must have a few downhill skiers.

Who in the midfield is he referring to?

[longtimesaint]

I think it’s more that they have been undermanned in the midfield with Dunstan, Hanners and Gresham missing.
The comment about coaching from the boundary shows a lack of knowledge as this has only been while Roughead has not been in the hub.

[WellardSaint]

Defensive running in the midfield the Achilles heel.

In which case the defence really has held up well given the quality of ball coming into the D50.

We must have a few downhill skiers.

Who in the midfield is he referring to?

Is he implying that we stream forward when the ball is coming off HB?
I thought that's normal, to create options and outnumber the oppo defence, we control play.
Of course if we kick to a contest, or stuff a pass, and it's turned over, we're exposed.
But don't most teams do that?

If our guys are 15m ahead of their direct opponent when it's turned over, unless your name is Usain Bolt, you're not going to catch up.

How do the top sides do it?

[Secret Kiel]

Defensive running in the midfield the Achilles heel.

In which case the defence really has held up well given the quality of ball coming into the D50.

We must have a few downhill skiers.

Who in the midfield is he referring to?

It would have to include Billings without doubt. He's turning into a very concerning down hill skier.

If we don't get the midfield issue fixed at this years trade period I fear our growth and top 4 aspirations may be in jeopardy. It's an almost list at the moment and we haven't got that in-house improvement with some of our fringe mids and it has really hurt us with Billings not being able to step up.

[saynta]

August is obviously "pick on Billings" month.

[longtimesaint]

Glad it’s September tomorrow!

[saynta]

Glad it’s September tomorrow!

[bigred]

Malthouse can go and get f***ed.

Seriously f*** off.

[Impatient Sainter]

I thought our midfield did quite well against Melbourne and if you look at the games AFL heat map most of Melbournes possessions were in their defence or on the wings. Its just basically their forward line functioned better than ours mostly because of Petracca, and May in their defence.

[Saintmatt]

Defensive running in the midfield the Achilles heel.

In which case the defence really has held up well given the quality of ball coming into the D50.

We must have a few downhill skiers.

Who in the midfield is he referring to?

It would have to include Billings without doubt. He's turning into a very concerning down hill skier.

If we don't get the midfield issue fixed at this years trade period I fear our growth and top 4 aspirations may be in jeopardy. It's an almost list at the moment and we haven't got that in-house improvement with some of our fringe mids and it has really hurt us with Billings not being able to step up.

That's utter bullsh!t. Billings gets back plenty well defensively. He plays the role of a modern wingman well and sweeps back to give the half backs support - Same with Hill. But Jack's presently horribly out of form.. The most effective exponent is Menagola at Geelong.

Defensive running is not just about midfielders - it's about how you structure your forwards when the ball goes in. Mick is right when he says we leave the corridor wide open - it's a function of wanting to switch into the corridor to attack to the top of the goal square (where we've kicked the majority of our easy goals from this year). The flip side is that your forwards have to sit deep to get front and square which means if the ball doesn't stay in the forward line repeatedly (or we kick a goal) then it flushes out quickly because there's not much of a line of defence at half forward to slow the ball movement into the corridor. Once it gets there - good luck midfielders - nothing will stop a tsunami of overlap run.

Our problem is that our 3.5 midfielders (Steele, Jones, Ross and a bit of Sinclair) never get a chop out and have to play the entire game as mids. We have no depth and hence, can't rotate through what we don't have. Put Gresham and Hanneberry (as mids resting forward or vice versa) into Saturday's team and (a) our midfield looks way stronger and more functional); (b) our entries to F50 are cleaner and more likely to result in a score; and (c) the ball isn't spitting back out like a pinball if we don't score.

[devil saint]

Agree that our midfield needs to tighten up defensively but I challenge Mick when he questions whether we can stand up against quality opposition.
He is failing to acknowledge our wins against Richmond and Port Adelaide.

[SunnyErnest]

I hate to admit it but Shithouse did say one thing I agree with. Ratts should not be on the boundary line. By all means have one of the assistants down there but he needs to be in the box. This is the best way for him to see how the game is unfolding.

[Secret Kiel]

That's utter bullsh!t. Billings gets back plenty well defensively. He plays the role of a modern wingman well and sweeps back to give the half backs support - Same with Hill. But Jack's presently horribly out of form.. The most effective exponent is Menagola at Geelong.

Defensive running is not just about midfielders - it's about how you structure your forwards when the ball goes in. Mick is right when he says we leave the corridor wide open - it's a function of wanting to switch into the corridor to attack to the top of the goal square (where we've kicked the majority of our easy goals from this year). The flip side is that your forwards have to sit deep to get front and square which means if the ball doesn't stay in the forward line repeatedly (or we kick a goal) then it flushes out quickly because there's not much of a line of defence at half forward to slow the ball movement into the corridor. Once it gets there - good luck midfielders - nothing will stop a tsunami of overlap run.

Our problem is that our 3.5 midfielders (Steele, Jones, Ross and a bit of Sinclair) never get a chop out and have to play the entire game as mids. We have no depth and hence, can't rotate through what we don't have. Put Gresham and Hanneberry (as mids resting forward or vice versa) into Saturday's team and (a) our midfield looks way stronger and more functional); (b) our entries to F50 are cleaner and more likely to result in a score; and (c) the ball isn't spitting back out like a pinball if we don't score.

He doesn't play the role well enough to be paid 800k.
That size pay packet is usually reserved for players who stand up in big games and finals, are match winners and are players who fans pay money just to watch exclusively. I doubt Jack is even on the radar of opposition fans he's that inconspicuous.

It's only my opinion, clearly because I type it out, but Billings is a down hill skier and refuses to roll up the sleaves and get dirty when the team needs him.

He's been in the system for 7 years now and I can't see him turning into a player that is deserving of 800k

[Saintmatt]

That's utter bullsh!t. Billings gets back plenty well defensively. He plays the role of a modern wingman well and sweeps back to give the half backs support - Same with Hill. But Jack's presently horribly out of form.. The most effective exponent is Menagola at Geelong.

Defensive running is not just about midfielders - it's about how you structure your forwards when the ball goes in. Mick is right when he says we leave the corridor wide open - it's a function of wanting to switch into the corridor to attack to the top of the goal square (where we've kicked the majority of our easy goals from this year). The flip side is that your forwards have to sit deep to get front and square which means if the ball doesn't stay in the forward line repeatedly (or we kick a goal) then it flushes out quickly because there's not much of a line of defence at half forward to slow the ball movement into the corridor. Once it gets there - good luck midfielders - nothing will stop a tsunami of overlap run.

Our problem is that our 3.5 midfielders (Steele, Jones, Ross and a bit of Sinclair) never get a chop out and have to play the entire game as mids. We have no depth and hence, can't rotate through what we don't have. Put Gresham and Hanneberry (as mids resting forward or vice versa) into Saturday's team and (a) our midfield looks way stronger and more functional); (b) our entries to F50 are cleaner and more likely to result in a score; and (c) the ball isn't spitting back out like a pinball if we don't score.

He doesn't play the role well enough to be paid 800k.
That size pay packet is usually reserved for players who stand up in big games and finals, are match winners and are players who fans pay money just to watch exclusively. I doubt Jack is even on the radar of opposition fans he's that inconspicuous.

It's only my opinion, clearly because I type it out, but Billings is a down hill skier and refuses to roll up the sleaves and get dirty when the team needs him.

He's been in the system for 7 years now and I can't see him turning into a player that is deserving of 800k

I have no idea whether he's on $800K or $600K - who knows ... do you? Would it matter if he was on $600K instead of $800k? The average AFL player salary is $371K. Is Jack worth double the average player salary? Absolutely - he's comfortably twice as good as an 'average' player. Comparatively - Jack Martin is on $800K as well. FFS - I'd much rather Billings' output than Jack Martin's.

Who cares whether a player is on the radar of opposition fans? What has that got to do with a player's output. Personally, I'd quite happy have 22 Shane Ellen's flying under the opposition fans' radar running amok on GF day.

What's your definition of 'roll your sleeves up'? Gut running, putting your head over it, goalkicking, 1%'s ? I'd say he's been excellent in all of those areas this year except the last two games where he's played 1 good quarter out of 8. If you're getting sucked into the Billings v Bontempelli thing well, 17 other teams got that wrong too.

As for your "deserving of 800K" comment - that's plainly myopic. Deserving has got nothing to do with how much a player gets paid. It's about time and circumstance of both player and club. Did Hanners deserve what he's getting paid? Nope - probably not but, we wanted/needed a name and no one else would come so, he got overs. Did Reece Conca deserve more than Dusty in 2013 when both were out of contract? Of course not - but in a genuis piece of player management, Reece committed whilst Dusty was touring GWS and got most of the coin that was set aside for him.

[Saintmatt]

Agree that our midfield needs to tighten up defensively but I challenge Mick when he questions whether we can stand up against quality opposition.
He is failing to acknowledge our wins against Richmond and Port Adelaide.

You could add the Bulldogs to that list to a degree too. But, if I'm brutally honest - I'm happy we played the Dogs and Tigers when we did because, I don't fancy playing them now. Similarly, we got dead unlucky playing the Pies when they were hot because before the last two games ... they were putrid and easy to play against.

[Secret Kiel]

he's played 1 good quarter out of 8.

My definition of rolling up the sleaves is 8 good quarters out of 8.

Especially when your team needs you, when the game is very winnable and a win can establish your credibility as a top 4 contender like against the Lions or like when a win can secure you a finals birth like against the Dees.

2 games when he was needed.

There is no sugar coating it, we can't be a top 4 side and have a tilt at a flag with players picking and choosing when to roll up the sleaves and give 4 quarters out of 4. Finals games are no place for downhill skiers.

[Freebird]

Take no notice of malthouse..has tunnel vision and can't see past his nose. Ask a Blues fan how good he is.
Has not done any homework on who we have beat this year

Saints are flat mentally and physically - must somehow re-discover the energy they had earlier both tackle pressure and run.

[SunnyErnest]

he's played 1 good quarter out of 8.

My definition of rolling up the sleaves is 8 good quarters out of 8.

Especially when your team needs you, when the game is very winnable and a win can establish your credibility as a top 4 contender like against the Lions or like when a win can secure you a finals birth like against the Dees.

2 games when he was needed.

There is no sugar coating it, we can't be a top 4 side and have a tilt at a flag with players picking and choosing when to roll up the sleaves and give 4 quarters out of 4. Finals games are no place for downhill skiers.

Are you for real? Billings is not picking and choosing when to roll up his sleeves. He is just out of form. He actually showed a lot of character last week in that even though he did not have a good game he nearly got us over the line against Fitzroy. Go and get a life outside of footy because you know nothing about the game. Unless of course you are just trolling for a reaction which if you are, you have succeeded.

[Saintmatt]

he's played 1 good quarter out of 8.

My definition of rolling up the sleaves is 8 good quarters out of 8.

Especially when your team needs you, when the game is very winnable and a win can establish your credibility as a top 4 contender like against the Lions or like when a win can secure you a finals birth like against the Dees.

2 games when he was needed.

There is no sugar coating it, we can't be a top 4 side and have a tilt at a flag with players picking and choosing when to roll up the sleaves and give 4 quarters out of 4. Finals games are no place for downhill skiers.

In a broad and deep field - this is one of your more weird contentions. He's played 1 good quarter out of 8 because he's either knackered (aka the asterix cup that you're endlessly crapping on about) or, more likely - he's just terribly out of form. Which happens. It's got nothing to do with desire or not wanting to "roll his sleeves" up - sometimes you just get out of form (albeit at a really inconvenient time for our team).

On that definition - a lot of so called guns of this comp aren't rolling their sleeves up and being elite and earning their pay packets this year either ... incl most of West Coast and Richmond for the 1st half of this season. And our very own Seb Ross whom, I'm sure was having a go but couldn't get near it for best part of a month before his calf.

I think you'd be better off prosecuting that other rather odd hobby horse topic of yours regarding the 14 game, skinny as a rake veteran Max King dropping marks whilst being manned up by the opposition's best mature defender (+ others) each week.

[Secret Kiel]

he's played 1 good quarter out of 8.

My definition of rolling up the sleaves is 8 good quarters out of 8.

Especially when your team needs you, when the game is very winnable and a win can establish your credibility as a top 4 contender like against the Lions or like when a win can secure you a finals birth like against the Dees.

2 games when he was needed.

There is no sugar coating it, we can't be a top 4 side and have a tilt at a flag with players picking and choosing when to roll up the sleaves and give 4 quarters out of 4. Finals games are no place for downhill skiers.

In a broad and deep field - this is one of your more weird contentions. He's played 1 good quarter out of 8 because he's either knackered (aka the asterix cup that you're endlessly crapping on about) or, more likely - he's just terribly out of form. Which happens. It's got nothing to do with desire or not wanting to "roll his sleeves" up - sometimes you just get out of form (albeit at a really inconvenient time for our team).

On that definition - a lot of so called guns of this comp aren't rolling their sleeves up and being elite and earning their pay packets this year either ... incl most of West Coast and Richmond for the 1st half of this season. And our very own Seb Ross whom, I'm sure was having a go but couldn't get near it for best part of a month before his calf.

I think you'd be better off prosecuting that other rather odd hobby horse topic of yours regarding the 14 game, skinny as a rake veteran Max King dropping marks whilst being manned up by the opposition's best mature defender (+ others) each week.

Well let's hope he can shake the downhill skier tag in a final. Losing that negative perception of him is in his control. Hopefully we play finals and he can prove he doesn't mind getting dirty.

I'd take a leaf out of Roos book circa 2005 and start by losing the arm badages.

[desertsaint]

who are these 'top' sides? the games that have killed us have been against freo, north and melbourne.

[To the top]

Agree that the absence of Hannebery, Gresham and Dunstan is hurting

Simply we are denied the flexibility of rotations because none of our “small forwards” are capable of giving a chop out

Butler I would excuse because his asset is his ability to score

The remainder only jag a goal every now or then so not dangerous forward and not able to rotate thru the midfield

Gresham and Hannebery are able to go forward and hit the scoreboard

Career statistics for Ross show he has no impact on the scorecard (remember Gram kicking 4 off half back?)

Dunstan is ahead of Ross for scoreboard contribution

We need class mids who can go forward and cause problems for the opposition whilst the likes of Gresham take a turn in the midfield

Our defence is our jewel - and will get far better with time

Our wings are good with Hill and Billings (yes, Billings)

Our rucks with Ryder and chop outs from Marshall are good

Marshall, King and Membrey is an attack with good potential - if not great even

So what does that leave?

Noting currently we are missing Hannebery, Gresham and Dunstan

Bytel and Byrnes are young with their futures ahead of them

[stkfc1]

Agree that the absence of Hannebery, Gresham and Dunstan is hurting

Simply we are denied the flexibility of rotations because none of our “small forwards” are capable of giving a chop out

Butler I would excuse because his asset is his ability to score

The remainder only jag a goal every now or then so not dangerous forward and not able to rotate thru the midfield

Gresham and Hannebery are able to go forward and hit the scoreboard

Career statistics for Ross show he has no impact on the scorecard (remember Gram kicking 4 off half back?)

Dunstan is ahead of Ross for scoreboard contribution

We need class mids who can go forward and cause problems for the opposition whilst the likes of Gresham take a turn in the midfield

Our defence is our jewel - and will get far better with time

Our wings are good with Hill and Billings (yes, Billings)

Our rucks with Ryder and chop outs from Marshall are good

Marshall, King and Membrey is an attack with good potential - if not great even

So what does that leave?

Noting currently we are missing Hannebery, Gresham and Dunstan

Bytel and Byrnes are young with their futures ahead of them

Spot on ToT.

We're carrying one too many small forwards.

Can't have Kent, Hind and Butler in the same team. Butler picks himself.
I'd rather we play a mid type instead but we're lacking in that area.