Developing team not a good team

[older saint]

As different as this season has been one thing that stands out is we have the features of a developing team. push good sides and occasionally win, beaten up against veterans and drop games against lesser opposition.

Last night will not cost us finals- 5 goals up against freo and North and lose both, to teams which will finish bottom 4 , will be the reason we miss finals.

We have young players continuing to develop, we have new players learning to play together, we have question marks and we have older players still good enough but likely to be depth players at best.

Young/developing - Clark, Coffield, King, Bytel, Brynes, Patton, Battle

New - Howard, Butler, Hill, Ryder,

Established core: Marshall, Steele, Billings, Ross, Wilkie , Membrey, Carlisle , Geary, Gresham

? - Long, Hind, Phillips, Parker,

Fringe - Savage, Webster, Sinclair, roberton, McKenzie, marsh, Kent, Hannebery,

over the next 2 years we need the young to become established, the fringe to go or become established and a new group of developing to come in .

If lists get cut at end of year i would expect to see a few "hard" decisions made - What to do with Austin- gave up a lot for him, what about Clavarino mid second round selection which still hasn't played 2 years later, Is Joyce likely to be in our next finals side?, Kent/Lonie/Parker - can only keep 2 ( trade value perhaps), Marsh , McKenzie been around a long time, Savage can he re invent himself as 50 metre kicks to no one off half Back wont cut it any more. Geary , great servant and leader but is he in best 22 anymore? All tough questions which need to be asked if we are to take the next step towards good.

i like where we are heading but we need another class midfielder, continue to retain depth as need a good 28 players ( why players like Dunstan, Roberton, etc are important )

[TheSkippe]

We need leaders and unfortunately they can't be traded in.

It just feels as though we haven't gelled as a team yet.

[Scollop]

Yes. And as long as we stay on track, I’m optimistic that we can sustain a very good team capable of consistently securing a top 4 spot over the next 2-3 years. I would be rapt if we make finals this year, but it isn’t the end of the world if we don’t.

The worry with Ryder is that he isn’t getting any younger, so King will probably have to ruck a bit more in 2021. Not sure if Abbott is worthy or if we have any other options, but you never know what happens with drafting and the trade period

Long, Hind and Phillips are developing. All very young. Phillips is an endurance athlete and as he gains experience he will establish himself in the team. Hind has to learn to work hard and get in front of the packs when he’s playing forward. Last night he didn’t work hard enough to get into those positions.

Long is raw and will get better with more games. I remember when Longy was playing as a small forward with us and we won that game against GWS or we had a draw with them a couple of years ago. It was because he was willing to take the game on and he had the confidence to create an opportunity out of nothing. Hopefully he continues to back himself and continues to play with flair.

Long provides speed, hardness, he’s good in the air and good defensively. He has the ability to create opportunities out of nothing but last night he made an error with just 1 minute on the clock. He had a chance to try and run with the footy or look for a lead in the last minute of the game but he panicked and bombed it long to a contest at full forward. The Dees cleared the ball and we had no time to get another chance at winning the game

Longy didn’t back himself ( probably because he got caught with the footy when he tried something earlier in the last quarter). Maybe one of the senior players got in his ear about it and he changed his game to our detriment. I’d rather a player that tries to win the game and takes responsibility rather than a player who passes the responsibility to someone else.

Jones and Ross are established but both cost us in terms of their disposal. Both were hit and miss with their kicks inside 50 last night. Most of the time their helicopter mungs go to a contest or to the opposition.

Howard made a couple of crucial errors which cost us turnovers and cost us goals. He will learn from his mistakes and in terms of games played he is also quite raw.

Clark looked heavy and slow last night. Must have hit the buffet breakfast bigtime over the last week or two. No doubt that Clark will only get fitter as he gets another preseason or two under his belt. Dan Butler is having a terrific year. One of the reasons that Butler and also Paddy Ryder have been so good this year for us is that they have worked hard on their fitness. Sinclair too looks like he’s gone to another level

We know what we have with established players and with the youth, Ratts can mould and teach them. Last night and last week against Brisbane are the perfect sort of games where you learn and grow

[saynta]

Yes. And as long as we stay on track, I’m optimistic that we can sustain a very good team capable of consistently securing a top 4 spot over the next 2-3 years. I would be rapt if we make finals this year, but it isn’t the end of the world if we don’t.

The worry with Ryder is that he isn’t getting any younger, so King will probably have to ruck a bit more in 2021. Not sure if Abbott is worthy or if we have any other options, but you never know what happens with drafting and the trade period

Long, Hind and Phillips are developing. All very young. Phillips is an endurance athlete and as he gains experience he will establish himself in the team. Hind has to learn to work hard and get in front of the packs when he’s playing forward. Last night he didn’t work hard enough to get into those positions.

Long is raw and will get better with more games. I remember when Longy was playing as a small forward with us and we won that game against GWS or we had a draw with them a couple of years ago. It was because he was willing to take the game on and he had the confidence to create an opportunity out of nothing. Hopefully he continues to back himself and continues to play with flair.

Long provides speed, hardness, he’s good in the air and good defensively. He has the ability to create opportunities out of nothing but last night he made an error with just 1 minute on the clock. He had a chance to try and run with the footy or look for a lead in the last minute of the game but he panicked and bombed it long to a contest at full forward. The Dees cleared the ball and we had no time to get another chance at winning the game

Longy didn’t back himself ( probably because he got caught with the footy when he tried something earlier in the last quarter). Maybe one of the senior players got in his ear about it and he changed his game to our detriment. I’d rather a player that tries to win the game and takes responsibility rather than a player who passes the responsibility to someone else.

Jones and Ross are established but both cost us in terms of their disposal. Both were hit and miss with their kicks inside 50 last night. Most of the time their helicopter mungs go to a contest or to the opposition.

Howard made a couple of crucial errors which cost us turnovers and cost us goals. He will learn from his mistakes and in terms of games played he is also quite raw.

Clark looked heavy and slow last night. Must have hit the buffet breakfast bigtime over the last week or two. No doubt that Clark will only get fitter as he gets another preseason or two under his belt. Dan Butler is having a terrific year. One of the reasons that Butler and also Paddy Ryder have been so good this year for us is that they have worked hard on their fitness. Sinclair too looks like he’s gone to another level

We know what we have with established players and with the youth, Ratts can mould and teach them. Last night and last week against Brisbane are the perfect sort of games where you learn and grow

Good post but Hind at 24 or 25 can hardly be called young.

[Sanctorum]

I like your work older saint and scollop and agree that there's a hell of a lot of upside to the St Kilda list.

As much as I felt shattered after the unexpected (and unnecessary) loss to Melbourne last night, it is important for supporters to take the long view and remember that this team is a damn sight better than last year's and is not far off from being developed into a good team.

Of the 6 games lost this year, 4 were by less than a goal and could easily have gone the other way

It would be great to play finals this year but I have personally always believed that 2020 is merely a prelude to much bigger and better things in 2021. Especially as the club has made clear that the rebuild under Brett Ratten will include bringing more experienced talent into the team in the next trading period.

#1 Target - midfielder, and my choice is Jye Caldwell who is out of contract this year, a Saints fan, bred at GWS, the AFL's midfield incubator, from where so many mids have gone on to become elite at other clubs.

My definition of "young/developing" category is players that have played less than 50 games, and of these the following are very likely to be in the team's best 25 and play a lot of games in 2021:

Marshall, Clark, Long, Battle, Wilkie, Coffield, Paton, King, Phillips, Bytel

The debate about who should stay or go will rage for months to come and right now I will wait and see what transpires in the remaining games before putting in my 2 bob's worth.

[BadRossco]

Am I the only supporter that can remember Doulton Langlands, I thought he looked athletic, fast and skilled in the very few chances he was given. Parker, Lonie and McKenzie have all had their chances and not been up to it surely Langlands should be given the same opportunities.

[spert]

Am I the only supporter that can remember Doulton Langlands, I thought he looked athletic, fast and skilled in the very few chances he was given. Parker, Lonie and McKenzie have all had their chances and not been up to it surely Langlands should be given the same opportunities.

Langlands looked good to me at senior level- what happened to him?

[cwrcyn]

Langland's kicking is a bit iffy. Odd action and struggles to kick more than 40 metres

[Secret Kiel]

Too many words wasted already in this short thread.

Bottom line is we are drunk on our own bath water.

[CURLY]

Young team and have shown vast improvement. Massive issue is we can't get game time into players we need to bring in and their progress is stalled.

We also have a 19 year old key forward that is obviously going to be a star but at the moment bigger bodied defenders no matter there ability have a advantage.

[Beno88]

We need leaders and unfortunately they can't be traded in.

Aaron Hamill would suggest otherwise.

And Jack Steele may end up our next captain.