Where are we losing it?

[Moods]

Looking at last weeks stats and then this weeks, it's hard to pin point why we're losing? Tonight we either squared all the important stats or won them comfortably. Inside 50's was 46-30!

We tackled well once the ball was inside 50 so we won that area as well. Clearances we squared and centre clearances where they had a advantage on paper we smashed them.

Basically we have the same problem that we've had for the last 5 years. Delivery inside 50. I thought at the start of the year we had resolved this issue, but we clearly haven't. Very few goals result from players being hit up on a lead. Having said that we also won comfortably marks inside 50.

We just look messy going fwd. And so many times we booted the ball out of a pack long into the fwd line and we had no players there at all. Noone. So we tend to press up too high to defend and then lose our shape on transition. Players are panicking under pressure. The skills just aren't there. Still. the other thing is the first 8 games we were really accurate. That accuracy has deserted us which brings you right back to the field.

We have to keep looking in the draft and trading for players with good foot skills. It's killing us.

[Saint_Singapore]

No decent leading or space making forwards who can mark overhead on the lead.

[True Blue Sainter]

1) Inside 50 entries are horrible, it's long to a contest every time.
2) Midfielders either not being able to find the ball consistently, or blazing away or taking the wrong option when they do get it
3) Forwards not converting when we do manage to carve out a decent chance
4) Every time Melbourne moved the ball forward they looked like they were going to score - we weren't able to stop them in transition defensively

[bigcarl]

We miss Gresham badly.

We are not moving the ball quickly enough or with the confidence that we had earlier in the season.

This allows the opposition time to flood back and the long bomb becomes the only option ... with predictable results. Kick it high to a 14th gamer up against Steven May and Max Gawn, what do you think is going to happen?

As good as Steele, Ryder, Marshall and Jones are, we need someone else in the middle who can create. I’d have thought Clark, but, for whatever reason, that doesn’t seem to be an option.

We also need a Plan B to combat the flood. Move all the forwards up the ground and kick over their heads into open space? Worth a try. Play two or three of the forward behind the ball? I don’t know, but do anything to create some space and give the chance of a one-on-one.

If King - who I’ve no doubt is going to be a very good player for us - is getting smashed, don’t just leave him deep FFS. That just shows no imagination. Put Battle deep or Membrey or Marshall. Or Ben Long.

Anyway, a very frustrating loss. We seem to have been worked out and have no Plan B.

[Rocket]

We got smashed by ground ball in forward line. They kept taking it out with ease, when May wasn’t marking it.

[CarlD]

Picking up the ball (even when not under immediate pressure) seemed to be an issue for the Saints. The commentators said early on it would get dewy but Melbourne players didn't seem to have the same level of problems.

[Sainter_Dad]

1) Inside 50 entries are horrible, it's long to a contest every time.
2) Midfielders either not being able to find the ball consistently, or blazing away or taking the wrong option when they do get it
3) Forwards not converting when we do manage to carve out a decent chance
4) Every time Melbourne moved the ball forward they looked like they were going to score - we weren't able to stop them in transition defensively

We have learned that the secret to accurate kicking is to take the shots from less than 30 - so our forwards camp 0 - 30 from goal and do not venture out of this space. Our mids get to 60 out and it is too far to take a shot - no-one comes at them so they have to kick to the pointy end of the ground with 12 players confined in the 0 - 30 (6 forwards and 6 backs) so it becomes a scrimmage - we used to use this as a way for the smalls to launch at goal - now we have been worked out and 1 big backman brings it to ground where their backs just waltz it out.

The simple truth - We are inefficient inside I50.

[Wayne42]

The opposition have definitely studied what was working for the Saints early in the season and have planned accordingly.

The forwards are nearly always under pressure, have no time or space and they lose the contested ball. When the Saints do get it
in the forward line they are spraying it everywhere.

Like what was said earlier, No Plan B.

[fugazi]

Still gutted this morning.

Maybe it's compounded by lock down, but I haven't been this disappointed by a loss in years.

Reverted to Richo game style again, I thought we'd broken through that orbit.

[samuraisaint]

We aren't playing four quarters - but we've still lost four matches by a goal or less.

We must select the best possible side for next Sunday against Hawthorn based on merit, fitness and form, not on reputation.

Perhaps Battle was being managed tonight with minutes and Carlisle was rested because they're fatigued.

Based on what I saw last night, if we repeat the mistakes of the past fortnight Frawley and McEvoy will get leather poisoning when we keep kicking helicopter kicks and long bombs in King's direction, as we did last night.

Players who are totally exhausted need to be managed (read: rested) this week.

[Secret Kiel]

1) Inside 50 entries are horrible, it's long to a contest every time.
2) Midfielders either not being able to find the ball consistently, or blazing away or taking the wrong option when they do get it
3) Forwards not converting when we do manage to carve out a decent chance
4) Every time Melbourne moved the ball forward they looked like they were going to score - we weren't able to stop them in transition defensively

What more can a mid or a small forward like Kent and Buttler do, they played their role with possibly the only criticism being they didn't press up hard enough after executing an i50. And I do think that was an issue last night. Not sure exactly why but a lot of players looked like they were playing with concrete boots. Have a look at Kents and Sincs i50 and meters gained. Really good figures.

This whole obsession with "bombing" on this site is pure comedy. If you have the tallest forward player in the history of AFL and with longer arms than inspector gadget, wouldn't one of his strengths be overhead marking. And so wouldn't you try and exploit that where possible by putting the ball up high to him when the lead up set play isn't an option. AND wouldn't you do that knowing you have a brigade of small forwards who can quicky arrive in front of the pack if the ball isn't clunked.

Incidentally and just quietly, even when the leadup mark is an option it is bouncing off Kingys chest so you imagine players will start to be reluctant to kick it in Kingys direction soon.

This site has to get over it's obsession with so called "bombing" becuse its embarrassing and cringeworthy every time someone bemoans it.

Our mechanism of forward entry has been our real improvement this year. It works when players don't have concrete boots on and it works when the basics like marking and setshots are executed better than an Auskicker.

[fugazi]

18 intercept marks to Melbourne

May had 6

Poor entries, and yes Max did drop some that he got his hands to, but can you drop your vendetta against the kid?

[Secret Kiel]

18 intercept marks to Melbourne

May had 6

Poor entries, and yes Max did drop some that he got his hands to, but can you drop your vendetta against the kid?

So posters on here who relentlessly attack players like certain midfilders and small forwards is fair game but criticising a tall forward who is dropping sitters and missing bankable set shots is deemed a vendetta. Sheez talk about protected species. I think it's official, we have our new Messiah.

[Saintmatt]

Still gutted this morning.

Maybe it's compounded by lock down, but I haven't been this disappointed by a loss in years.

Reverted to Richo game style again, I thought we'd broken through that orbit.

Same. Fitful sh1tty night’s sleep with fvck all to look forward to today in he way of doing something different or a diversion from another Groundhog Day.

To think that Cho put us through his rubbish for 6 years and then plotted to give us another serve last night of his delicious sh1t sandwich has done nothing for my mood.

[Saintmatt]

18 intercept marks to Melbourne

May had 6

Poor entries, and yes Max did drop some that he got his hands to, but can you drop your vendetta against the kid?

So posters on here who relentlessly attack players like certain midfilders and small forwards is fair game but criticising a tall forward who is dropping sitters and missing bankable set shots is deemed a vendetta. Sheez talk about protected species. I think it's official, we have our new Messiah.

I get your point but there is no one in our side who’s played less than 14 games so, by definition Max is the only baby and well known that tall players take more time to develop than say, midfielders. And experienced players.

I think that’s why ppl are a bit protective of Max and wondering why your’re as hard on him as some others are on our most experienced leaders in Ross and Geary. Or Billings etc

[nobhead]

1) Inside 50 entries are horrible, it's long to a contest every time.
2) Midfielders either not being able to find the ball consistently, or blazing away or taking the wrong option when they do get it
3) Forwards not converting when we do manage to carve out a decent chance
4) Every time Melbourne moved the ball forward they looked like they were going to score - we weren't able to stop them in transition defensively

The most glaring stat is defensive marks inside our forward 50.especially the last 2 weeks
Whats changed from earlier rounds is not king holding marks but being able to at least halve contests .
How do we fix it?
If we are going to kick long to max , membrey and marshal need to be at that contest to make sure the ball comes to ground at worst .so our small forwards can lock it in there and create pressure forcing that rushed kick out defense and turnovers giving us repeat entries.
Last night we got outnarked and the ball straight of our 50 way to easy.

[SAINT-LEE]

Check my posts early in the season.

I predicted 7-8 wins easily and if the wind was right we might sail away and hit 9-10 wins. I bluntly said our line up was not good enough to be top 4. I state we need 85% of the lads to have 40- 50 games TOGETHER to be a unified force. The lads get and then black out and forget everything...thats normal with a mix of new trades, low game played, rookies and oldies hanging in there.

I highlighted that Hill would NOT be a saviour but be a steady influence, that is needed. I stated there was a huge chance Rowan would fail to imitate 2019 and struggle.
I stated our forward line without Bruce would struggle massively as he was the guy to take a KPP and either bring it to ground to advantage or grab a mark. Leaving the job to a newbie and Membrey ( who is accurate but runs extremely hot and viciously cold and is not a #2 but a strong #3). Would ultimately fail. The trial by fire for King would hit and miss and required 2nd tall in support to be effective long term.


Forward:
We need an identified 2nd tall forward.
If they're on the team then play them.

Mid: good progress on some trades but need big $ and big balls to get our AA.


How: trade out for picks or combo deals Ross, Sinclair, Dunstan, Langlands, Lonie, Marsh, Savage, Joyce, either Clavarino or Austin, Abbott. IF Billings get a sweet trade across the line...do it.
Geary 50/50, Brown to retire.

We must get a strong Ruck if its Albaskis lets get him playing with Ryder...

Forward line would be brutal with Marshall FF, Membrey FF, King CHF


Mid: we need 2 types - one: a hard nose bull who gets the pill under and over and can slot it outside or accurately drop it 20-30 metres to CHF
we need a classy speedster who actually fights
for the ball and upon winning it run like the wind slicing
and dicing.

Of course its just my opinion and I can be wrong but seeing I said this at seasons start I feel confident it was a close assessment

[Secret Kiel]

18 intercept marks to Melbourne

May had 6

Poor entries, and yes Max did drop some that he got his hands to, but can you drop your vendetta against the kid?

So posters on here who relentlessly attack players like certain midfilders and small forwards is fair game but criticising a tall forward who is dropping sitters and missing bankable set shots is deemed a vendetta. Sheez talk about protected species. I think it's official, we have our new Messiah.

I get your point but there is no one in our side who’s played less than 14 games so, by definition Max is the only baby and well known that tall players take more time to develop than say, midfielders. And experienced players.

I think that’s why ppl are a bit protective of Max and wondering why your’re as hard on him as some others are on our most experienced leaders in Ross and Geary. Or Billings etc

It's a concerning pattern though wouldn't you say with Maxy.

Don't get me started on Billings. He is not an 800k player. I probably wouldn't bat an eyelid if he was on 350k to 400k as you could write him down as a role player.

We've had massive discussion about another 800k player and bemoaned him becuse of the size of his pay packet, well the same goes for Jack, he is overpaid for the value he is currently providing.

800k players are match winners and make fans want to pay to watch them play. Who would pay to watch Jack outside of the most die-hard Saints fan. I doubt he is even on the radar of opposition fans.

[Secret Kiel]

Moreover re where we are losing it, I am now also wondering if the Asterisk Cup conditions are coming home to roost for our young side.

Maybe too much surfing, cafe lattes and smashed avo on sourdough in Noosa. I called it a gap year for a reason.

[spert]

Too many passengers in the first one and a half quarters- same as the Brisbane game.

[SAINT-LEE]

18 intercept marks to Melbourne

May had 6

Poor entries, and yes Max did drop some that he got his hands to, but can you drop your vendetta against the kid?

So posters on here who relentlessly attack players like certain midfilders and small forwards is fair game but criticising a tall forward who is dropping sitters and missing bankable set shots is deemed a vendetta. Sheez talk about protected species. I think it's official, we have our new Messiah.

I get your point but there is no one in our side who’s played less than 14 games so, by definition Max is the only baby and well known that tall players take more time to develop than say, midfielders. And experienced players.

I think that’s why ppl are a bit protective of Max and wondering why your’re as hard on him as some others are on our most experienced leaders in Ross and Geary. Or Billings etc

It's a concerning pattern though wouldn't you say with Maxy.

Don't get me started on Billings. He is not an 800k player. I probably wouldn't bat an eyelid if he was on 350k to 400k as you could write him down as a role player.

We've had massive discussion about another 800k player and bemoaned him becuse of the size of his pay packet, well the same goes for Jack, he is overpaid for the value he is currently providing.

800k players are match winners and make fans want to pay to watch them play. Who would pay to watch Jack outside of the most die-hard Saints fan. I doubt he is even on the radar of opposition fans.

Max is struggling a bit, he's being battered far more and supported far less than our St Nick ever got.

Imagine a genuine 2nd forward tandem with Max...who wouldnt sh!t themselves in a contest worried that Max would leap over for a mark or that Hamill, Gehrig or Koschitzke type will go both knees into kidneys at 80 km an hour...these lads played right alongside Nick and he benefited greatly.

MAX DOES NOT HAVE THAT TYPE OF BACK UP!!! Do you see the issue or are you still not getting it?
We have chucked Max to the wolves with little to no help up front and wonder why he can't take on 2-3 defenders and then gets weary.

[saintsRrising]

...... duplicate

[Secret Kiel]

18 intercept marks to Melbourne

May had 6

Poor entries, and yes Max did drop some that he got his hands to, but can you drop your vendetta against the kid?

So posters on here who relentlessly attack players like certain midfilders and small forwards is fair game but criticising a tall forward who is dropping sitters and missing bankable set shots is deemed a vendetta. Sheez talk about protected species. I think it's official, we have our new Messiah.

I get your point but there is no one in our side who’s played less than 14 games so, by definition Max is the only baby and well known that tall players take more time to develop than say, midfielders. And experienced players.

I think that’s why ppl are a bit protective of Max and wondering why your’re as hard on him as some others are on our most experienced leaders in Ross and Geary. Or Billings etc

It's a concerning pattern though wouldn't you say with Maxy.

Don't get me started on Billings. He is not an 800k player. I probably wouldn't bat an eyelid if he was on 350k to 400k as you could write him down as a role player.

We've had massive discussion about another 800k player and bemoaned him becuse of the size of his pay packet, well the same goes for Jack, he is overpaid for the value he is currently providing.

800k players are match winners and make fans want to pay to watch them play. Who would pay to watch Jack outside of the most die-hard Saints fan. I doubt he is even on the radar of opposition fans.

Max is struggling a bit, he's being battered far more and supported far less than our St Nick ever got.

Imagine a genuine 2nd forward tandem with Max...who wouldnt sh!t themselves in a contest worried that Max would leap over for a mark or that Hamill, Gehrig or Koschitzke type will go both knees into kidneys at 80 km an hour...these lads played right alongside Nick and he benefited greatly.

MAX DOES NOT HAVE THAT TYPE OF BACK UP!!! Do you see the issue or are you still not getting it?
We have chucked Max to the wolves with little to no help up front and wonder why he can't take on 2-3 defenders and then gets weary.

Yup he is being thrown to the wolves for sure. In a full strength comp he would have been sent back to Sandy weeks ago and therein lies a big challenge. It's the Astersik Cup and the club is based in farging Noosa. The only place Max can be sent back to up there is the sauna and golf course.

[saintsRrising]

We miss Gresham badly.

1/ See above. And we lack a gun mid or two.
2/ King it to 12 ( Roo now Max) Gameplan that all other coaches know we are operating under.
3/ We used to be able to crumb off the spoilt ball from 12, now no longer
4/ Members is sadly out of form.
5/ Our gameplan only works when the opposition is happy to have a open freeflowing shoot out. The opposition are no longer willing to do this against us.

Think about this. One of the rare times Max led, he marked and goaled.
He is a skinny guy still with a lack of core strength. We should be playing him in a role that suits his current body, and not the body he might have in 3 years. And even then I hope that we are still not just roosting it to him. The Hail Max Gameplan sucks!

[Secret Kiel]

And if the heat doesn't come for the side this week and the media continue to blow smoke up the clubs arse then we are farked. I think we started to drink our own bath water after the Port win, similar to the phenomenon after the GWS win on a Friday night in 2016 or 2017. We peaked in that game and we have clearly peaked against Port this season.