Match Thread Saints v Demons Round 14 2020

[happy feet]

In fairness to our bombing midfielders, they look up see no movement. So what are they supposed to do?

But our forwards appear to all cluster inside 20 of goal
I’m not sure they’re being instructed to move
The Cats just sat ba k and picked us off as we bombed
Melb did it tonight
Stupid stupid forward 50 coaching - who is it?? Anyone know???

Isn’t Jared Roughead our forward coach?
I do remember reading an interview with him a couple of months ago where he said he was staying in Melbourne due to having a newborn.

I think Roughead went up this week so he'd still be in isolation, besides isn't he the midfield coach?

I think the culture shock had an influence, especially with the coaching staff. Melbourne did their homework and were much more prepared and organised than us. The fact there was no plan B for Max was a surprise - being left in the slaughterhouse for three quarters was possibly good for him in the long run but it wouldn't do his confidence much good and didn't help us tonight.

I’d argue since the Cats game we’ve been worked out
Sides know how to stop our run off half back and we bomb
Our forwards don’t lead up to the footy - clearly they are under some type of instruction because we stay so close to goal
King would be a different prospect if he could lead up to/jump at the footy at his height and reach not many defenders could go with him

Yes, they have figured us out.

[Teflon]

The opposition coaches must look at the tapes and say...gee they seem to bomb it to their skinny 19 year old 70% of the time for their Inside50s.

We need to pressure the kicker and double team King...

They don't seem to have a Plan B.

3 out of 4 of the games lost by a goal should have been 3-4 goal victories.

Why wouldnt you kick it high to Max. He's a TALL forward, the tallest ever. There wasn't absolutely nothing wrong with the kicks to him, he just dropped absolute sitters.

Is this guy a troll ???
FFS Max King is a baby he is not the messiah
I can’t believe people watched that game and could think he had silver service delivery to him?
How odd

If you drop multiple sitters how is that the fault of the delivery.

Ok let’s go ba k to school Dilbert
King is a skinny , lanky reachy lead up forward (think Daniher type but a lot skinnier cause he’s in year 1)
His attributes right now ARE NOT to stand toe to toe and wrestle for marks with bigger defenders
Players who kick the ball to him on top of his head are asking him to do that
We are not playing to his strengths we are doing exact opposite
It ain’t hard
But I think you’re a troll
It’s like telling a welterweight boxer up against a heavier opponent ..we want you to stand and punch on with your opponent....don’t use your speed it’s dumb

[shanegrambeau]

Amazing.

Poor midfield
Poor forward structure
Poor coaching
Dumb players
Half the team is useless

Lost two games in two weeks by a total of 6 points.

Makes sence

Agree Curly but we shouldnt have lost tonights game & even the Brisbane game there were signs Ratts should have picked up earlier. Losses hurt more in that fashion particularly when a win is so important.

We were picked off defensively by Geelong in exactly the same fashion - sides have worked us out and we are not responding

Ping F%&'()G PonG!

YES!!

[SunnyErnest]

Geary and Hind and Kent should never play again

I think you’ve made your point tonight. How about you go back to your colouring in book and leave the footy analysis to adults

I think you should go back to your colouring books actually.

[CURLY]

Amazing.

Poor midfield
Poor forward structure
Poor coaching
Dumb players
Half the team is useless

Lost two games in two weeks by a total of 6 points.

Makes sence

Agree Curly but we shouldnt have lost tonights game & even the Brisbane game there were signs Ratts should have picked up earlier. Losses hurt more in that fashion particularly when a win is so important.

We played poirly but I’m not sure he could have done much more structurely. We are playing a 12 game 19 year old key forward against gun mature backs. He will mark more than he drops in a year or two and Ratten would know that. The problem is he needs games and at the moment this is the only games he can get.

Ratten did put Battle and Marshall up forward also.
Kent and Hind aren’t the answer and that’s where the issue was again tonight.

[Secret Kiel]

The opposition coaches must look at the tapes and say...gee they seem to bomb it to their skinny 19 year old 70% of the time for their Inside50s.

We need to pressure the kicker and double team King...

They don't seem to have a Plan B.

3 out of 4 of the games lost by a goal should have been 3-4 goal victories.

Why wouldnt you kick it high to Max. He's a TALL forward, the tallest ever. There wasn't absolutely nothing wrong with the kicks to him, he just dropped absolute sitters.

Is this guy a troll ???
FFS Max King is a baby he is not the messiah
I can’t believe people watched that game and could think he had silver service delivery to him?
How odd

If you drop multiple sitters how is that the fault of the delivery.

Ok let’s go ba k to school Dilbert
King is a skinny , lanky reachy lead up forward (think Daniher type but a lot skinnier cause he’s in year 1)
His attributes right now ARE NOT to stand toe to toe and wrestle for marks with bigger defenders
Players who kick the ball to him on top of his head are asking him to do that
We are not playing to his strengths we are doing exact opposite
It ain’t hard
But I think you’re a troll
It’s like telling a welterweight boxer up against a heavier opponent ..we want you to stand and punch on with your opponent....don’t use your speed it’s dumb

The marks he is dropping are not in packs. He's doing really good and leading fast to take a low pass but it's bouncing out of his chest or the ball is passing through his hands if it's coming in high. It looks like a technical issue.

[To the top]

We win tonight and the players have the opportunity to cement their status by performing in Finals football

We lose and that opportunity is lost with the result every player will be assessed on the basis of this performance

Accordingly, with the now very real prospect we will not win another game in 2020 we look at 2021 (we play WCE, Hawthorn and GWS who will all beat us on this performance)

I would now be resting King, Gresham and Hannebery ahead of 2021

I would be marking the papers of Hind, Kent and Sinclair as not of the required standard and of Geary and Ross as relics of miserable sides

We now need to urgently assess if Roberton is still competition class

We need to see if Bytel and Byrnes can address our glaring deficiency supporting Steele and shuffling Jones down to where he should be - a support player with hardness and honesty but absent the cut and thrust class

We need to see where Austin and Claravino are at

And we do not go back to the other relics of miserable sides and who remain on our List

You are measured on your losses

Winning can mask deficiencies

[Ghost Like]

The opposition coaches must look at the tapes and say...gee they seem to bomb it to their skinny 19 year old 70% of the time for their Inside50s.

We need to pressure the kicker and double team King...

They don't seem to have a Plan B.

3 out of 4 of the games lost by a goal should have been 3-4 goal victories.

Why wouldnt you kick it high to Max. He's a TALL forward, the tallest ever. There wasn't absolutely nothing wrong with the kicks to him, he just dropped absolute sitters.

Is this guy a troll ???
FFS Max King is a baby he is not the messiah
I can’t believe people watched that game and could think he had silver service delivery to him?
How odd

Yes, he is or he's Tony Lockett. I'll guess a type of troll. Someone whose footy career is getting better with each post.

[ace]

Hawks on Sunday
Lose that and finals are a distant chance.
then Weagles on Thursday and GWS a little over a week later.
Those last two will be difficult if GWS still a chance of playing finals.

[Devilhead]

46 to 30 inside 50s

No one player is responsible for that pathetic loss

It was just a s*** all round team performance coaches included

You’re boy can’t hide Devil
7 years elite??????????????
Go grab your stats

He is having an ordinary patch for sure but he just as likely shut you up next week and the week after that ......

That loss though was a team effort - players can't hide nor can the coaches

7 years ?????? FFS he’s still inconsistent
Steele is pantsing him week in week out
Stop making excuses it’s the pathetic St Kilda mentality and why we have 1 flag and are laughed at
“He’ll be better next week....or the week after,,..”
Tonight mattered
Tonight we needed our “weapon” to fire
Hill gave something .....Jacky boy gave sweet FA
Very very tradeable

Well given he is that bad in your eyes ..... who would want him?

Give us a trade scenario?

Not according to you he’s elite?????
Waste of time

Avoiding the question again?

Trade scenario please?

Jack Billings (elite from you) for best available midfield talent ???
Now tell me you disagree with that please ?
No stats tonight ?? Gone very quiet ....where’s those super duper disposal stats you were waving around???
It’s probably my tough to see them with all that egg on your face ?

FFS I have acknowledged thst he is in a slump - read the quotes above Einstein

Now give me trade scenario?

Whats best available talent?

Surely it ain't that hard ....... or maybe it is cause you ain't that bright

Yesterday you had Billings as “intrinsic” to our teams success and a superstar.....today he’s just in a slump (7 year slump but ok)....on your track record I wouldn’t be going around questioning people on being “bright”
I’ll say one thing for you.....it does t take long to change your mind ....Jacks lucky to have you in the trench with him.
So you’re still saying definitely no trade for Jack Billings?? I mean before a trade happens you got to want to trade ....is Jack tradeable ?????? Let’s have it
Do try and stiffen up the spine and have an opinion....no need for stats for those ...

Again when did I ever use the word "Superstar"?

They are your twisted words!!

As for stating he is in a 7 year slump well that just confirms how deluded and hysterical you are

I have also commented several times across several threads and made it clear that in my opinion Billings should not be traded..... unfortunately it seems you can't see past your emotional overwrought ramblings and read through those unrestrained agitated tears of JB hate

It's pretty embarrassing to watch a grown man avoid and deflect a simple question - the fact a whole forum has seen it takes it to a new level

Anyway given that you have no practical answers re trading JB I will just have to assume our robust discussion is now dead in the water ..... which is a shame

Hope u can find peace with your Jack pain

[Ghost Like]

The opposition coaches must look at the tapes and say...gee they seem to bomb it to their skinny 19 year old 70% of the time for their Inside50s.

We need to pressure the kicker and double team King...

They don't seem to have a Plan B.

3 out of 4 of the games lost by a goal should have been 3-4 goal victories.

Why wouldnt you kick it high to Max. He's a TALL forward, the tallest ever. There wasn't absolutely nothing wrong with the kicks to him, he just dropped absolute sitters.

Is this guy a troll ???
FFS Max King is a baby he is not the messiah
I can’t believe people watched that game and could think he had silver service delivery to him?
How odd

If you drop multiple sitters how is that the fault of the delivery.

Ok let’s go ba k to school Dilbert
King is a skinny , lanky reachy lead up forward (think Daniher type but a lot skinnier cause he’s in year 1)
His attributes right now ARE NOT to stand toe to toe and wrestle for marks with bigger defenders
Players who kick the ball to him on top of his head are asking him to do that
We are not playing to his strengths we are doing exact opposite
It ain’t hard
But I think you’re a troll
It’s like telling a welterweight boxer up against a heavier opponent ..we want you to stand and punch on with your opponent....don’t use your speed it’s dumb

The marks he is dropping are not in packs. He's doing really good and leading fast to take a low pass but it's bouncing out of his chest or the ball is passing through his hands if it's coming in high. It looks like a technical issue.

Really? I know you didn't watch a lot of games early, unless you lied but the marks dropped are when he ducks his head as if a defender is on him. Nothing technical, try habitual.

Your memory of the ball bouncing from the chest of a young, leading St Kilda forward is that of Paddy Mc.

[Teflon]

The opposition coaches must look at the tapes and say...gee they seem to bomb it to their skinny 19 year old 70% of the time for their Inside50s.

We need to pressure the kicker and double team King...

They don't seem to have a Plan B.

3 out of 4 of the games lost by a goal should have been 3-4 goal victories.

Why wouldnt you kick it high to Max. He's a TALL forward, the tallest ever. There wasn't absolutely nothing wrong with the kicks to him, he just dropped absolute sitters.

Is this guy a troll ???
FFS Max King is a baby he is not the messiah
I can’t believe people watched that game and could think he had silver service delivery to him?
How odd

If you drop multiple sitters how is that the fault of the delivery.

Ok let’s go ba k to school Dilbert
King is a skinny , lanky reachy lead up forward (think Daniher type but a lot skinnier cause he’s in year 1)
His attributes right now ARE NOT to stand toe to toe and wrestle for marks with bigger defenders
Players who kick the ball to him on top of his head are asking him to do that
We are not playing to his strengths we are doing exact opposite
It ain’t hard
But I think you’re a troll
It’s like telling a welterweight boxer up against a heavier opponent ..we want you to stand and punch on with your opponent....don’t use your speed it’s dumb

The marks he is dropping are not in packs. He's doing really good and leading fast to take a low pass but it's bouncing out of his chest or the ball is passing through his hands if it's coming in high. It looks like a technical issue.

I didn’t count many lead up chest marks King dropped tonight
Most were in contested situations with the ball bombed in on his head
Might pay you to watch a replay

[fugazi]

Gutted tonight.
I'm sure all the players and coaching staff are as well.
There must be half a dozen players who should be worried about getting another game this year.

May as well play Parker in the disputed small forward position (We won both games he played in I believe)

Kent is looking ordinary again and so is Hind.

Roberton for Geary...give him a go, and let's see if he still has IT

[Teflon]

46 to 30 inside 50s

No one player is responsible for that pathetic loss

It was just a s*** all round team performance coaches included

You’re boy can’t hide Devil
7 years elite??????????????
Go grab your stats

He is having an ordinary patch for sure but he just as likely shut you up next week and the week after that ......

That loss though was a team effort - players can't hide nor can the coaches

7 years ?????? FFS he’s still inconsistent
Steele is pantsing him week in week out
Stop making excuses it’s the pathetic St Kilda mentality and why we have 1 flag and are laughed at
“He’ll be better next week....or the week after,,..”
Tonight mattered
Tonight we needed our “weapon” to fire
Hill gave something .....Jacky boy gave sweet FA
Very very tradeable

Well given he is that bad in your eyes ..... who would want him?

Give us a trade scenario?

Not according to you he’s elite?????
Waste of time

Avoiding the question again?

Trade scenario please?

Jack Billings (elite from you) for best available midfield talent ???
Now tell me you disagree with that please ?
No stats tonight ?? Gone very quiet ....where’s those super duper disposal stats you were waving around???
It’s probably my tough to see them with all that egg on your face ?

FFS I have acknowledged thst he is in a slump - read the quotes above Einstein

Now give me trade scenario?

Whats best available talent?

Surely it ain't that hard ....... or maybe it is cause you ain't that bright

Yesterday you had Billings as “intrinsic” to our teams success and a superstar.....today he’s just in a slump (7 year slump but ok)....on your track record I wouldn’t be going around questioning people on being “bright”
I’ll say one thing for you.....it does t take long to change your mind ....Jacks lucky to have you in the trench with him.
So you’re still saying definitely no trade for Jack Billings?? I mean before a trade happens you got to want to trade ....is Jack tradeable ?????? Let’s have it
Do try and stiffen up the spine and have an opinion....no need for stats for those ...

Again when did I ever use the word "Superstar"?

They are your twisted words!!

As for stating he is in a 7 year slump well that just confirms how deluded and hysterical you are

I have also commented several times across several threads and made it clear that in my opinion Billings should not be traded..... unfortunately it seems you can't see past your emotional overwrought ramblings and read through those unrestrained agitated tears of JB hate

It's pretty embarrassing to watch a grown man avoid and deflect a simple question - the fact a whole forum has seen it takes it to a new level

Anyway given that you have no practical answers re trading JB I will just have to assume our robust discussion is now dead in the water ..... which is a shame

Hope u can find peace with your Jack pain

I think it’s best our discussions end now and for all time
I was always advised ....never have a battle of wits with an unarmed man....you fit the bill
I can see your JB love blinds you so shall leave you to the stock standard St Kilda supporter way ...that is idolise the individual over the good of the team ...1 flag in 140 years tells us that
BTW - come trade time I’ll have that deal for you...but to be clear it will be JB for the BEST available mid on offer.
How good was Patracca tonight hey.....gee now....that’s a mid...
ciao

[To the top]

A contribution “they have worked out our run off half back”

The question is why reliance on run off half back?

We have Ryder with a chop out from Marshall

So why not run from the contest including particularly the centre square when the set up is 6/6.6?

Why the reliance on “run off half back”?

Yes, Clark, Coffield and Long give good rebound but, if the ball is in the opposition’s half, they are going to score so starting your game from half back is fraught because the law of averages is against you One slip up and they score

Our glaring deficiency is under our rucks

[Teflon]

A contribution “they have worked out our run off half back”

The question is why reliance on run off half back?

We have Ryder with a chop out from Marshall

So why not run from the contest including particularly the centre square when the set up is 6/6.6?

Why the reliance in “run off half back”?

Yes, Clark, Coffield and Long give good rebound but, if the ball is in the oppositions half, they are going to score so starting your game front half back is fraught because the law of averages is against you One slip up and they score

Our glaring deficiency is under our rucks

Perhaps that’s why - because our glaring deficiency is our (apart from Steele) relatively pedestrian midfield under our rucks....
Hard to run forward from the stoppage if you’re losing contests often..
We need a line breaking goal scoring elite mid

[Ghost Like]

G'day Teflon,

I refuse to requote to the power of 10. What if the best available mid was Rockliff, Ross, Sloane, Murphy or similar, would you do it?

Who tonight from the St Kilda side would you take to the finals ahead of Billings?

[Secret Kiel]

Make no mistake about it, the forward line lost this game. King and Members have to take accountability.

Dropped marks and missed set shots within 30m.

There's the game right there.

[1965 Saint]

Didn’t see all of the game tonight but in the bits I did see I formed the view that we were just going throughly the motions with a belief that we would just tirn on the jets and run over them. Then came the panic when that didn’t happen and it didn’t fall our way. Focused intensity from the start would have seen a completely different outcome.

[CURLY]

A contribution “they have worked out our run off half back”

The question is why reliance on run off half back?

We have Ryder with a chop out from Marshall

So why not run from the contest including particularly the centre square when the set up is 6/6.6?

Why the reliance on “run off half back”?

Yes, Clark, Coffield and Long give good rebound but, if the ball is in the opposition’s half, they are going to score so starting your game from half back is fraught because the law of averages is against you One slip up and they score

Our glaring deficiency is under our rucks

Can’t have this. Won center clearances easily won inside 50’s easily.

Forward line was the issue tonight.

[Impatient Sainter]

Amazing.

Poor midfield
Poor forward structure
Poor coaching
Dumb players
Half the team is useless

Lost two games in two weeks by a total of 6 points.

Makes sence

Agree Curly but we shouldnt have lost tonights game & even the Brisbane game there were signs Ratts should have picked up earlier. Losses hurt more in that fashion particularly when a win is so important.

We played poirly but I’m not sure he could have done much more structurely. We are playing a 12 game 19 year old key forward against gun mature backs. He will mark more than he drops in a year or two and Ratten would know that. The problem is he needs games and at the moment this is the only games he can get.

Ratten did put Battle and Marshall up forward also.
Kent and Hind aren’t the answer and that’s where the issue was again tonight.

True but he did nothing to change up May's influence on the game - and had no other plan that was beef! Battle was used forward for a brief time but not enough. Our small forwards were simply not given a chance because Melbourne marked and intercepted everything. It reminded me of a game last year when we were playing Geelong and left a single forward to be crucified.

Perhaps Ratten is not the coaching mesiah we were hoping for?

He certainly got exposed again tonight!!

[Teflon]

G'day Teflon,

I refuse to requote to the power of 10. What if the best available mid was Rockliff, Ross, Sloane, Murphy or similar, would you do it?

Who tonight from the St Kilda side would you take to the finals ahead of Billings?

Rockliff could be tempting others a little older I think
I’d also do it for an upside mid from gws that may be getting squeezed out ....a Caldwell type?
It depends on availability you need to test the market and I would
We paid over for Hill in need....I’d love if 4 sides needed JB and were prepared to pay ...
Smith from Dogs....be ok too
I don’t think Ive ever said we have better stock just sitting in our list currently to displace Billings....I’ve constantly said we need to bring into the the best available midfield talent we can get
If it was poker ....Billings trade may provide an ace at the bargaining table we desperately need and I’m ok with that

[Devilhead]

A contribution “they have worked out our run off half back”

The question is why reliance on run off half back?

We have Ryder with a chop out from Marshall

So why not run from the contest including particularly the centre square when the set up is 6/6.6?

Why the reliance on “run off half back”?

Yes, Clark, Coffield and Long give good rebound but, if the ball is in the opposition’s half, they are going to score so starting your game from half back is fraught because the law of averages is against you One slip up and they score

Our glaring deficiency is under our rucks

Can’t have this. Won center clearances easily won inside 50’s easily.

Forward line was the issue tonight.

Clearances were 29 to 23 in our favour

Centre clearances not sure?

All night we looked completely stagnant off half back and when we did finally slowly find a way forward we missed very gettable shots or it came out without any pressure

[Ghost Like]

G'day Teflon,

I refuse to requote to the power of 10. What if the best available mid was Rockliff, Ross, Sloane, Murphy or similar, would you do it?

Who tonight from the St Kilda side would you take to the finals ahead of Billings?

Rockliff could be tempting others a little older I think
I’d also do it for an upside mid from gws that may be getting squeezed out ....a Caldwell type?
It depends on availability you need to test the market and I would
We paid over for Hill in need....I’d love if 4 sides needed JB and were prepared to pay ...
Smith from Dogs....be ok too
I don’t think Ive ever said we have better stock just sitting in our list currently to displace Billings....I’ve constantly said we need to bring into the the best available midfield talent we can get
If it was poker ....Billings trade may provide an ace at the bargaining table we desperately need and I’m ok with that

Ironically mate, if it was poker we are literally holding a Jack. The only way we can win this is by holding more Jacks.

Two Jacks will always beat one Ace.

[whiskers3614]

A contribution “they have worked out our run off half back”

The question is why reliance on run off half back?

We have Ryder with a chop out from Marshall

So why not run from the contest including particularly the centre square when the set up is 6/6.6?

Why the reliance on “run off half back”?

Yes, Clark, Coffield and Long give good rebound but, if the ball is in the opposition’s half, they are going to score so starting your game from half back is fraught because the law of averages is against you One slip up and they score

Our glaring deficiency is under our rucks

Can’t have this. Won center clearances easily won inside 50’s easily.

Forward line was the issue tonight.

Clearances were 29 to 23 in our favour

Centre clearances not sure?

All night we looked completely stagnant off half back and when we did finally slowly find a way forward we missed very gettable shots or it came out without any pressure

What was wrong with Clark?