Open Mike Luke Ball

[CURLY]

Watching Open Mike didn’t make me feel warm to Ball.
The players at that time had a pact to stick together until they achieved the second premiership.
He bailed out on that agreement and went to arch rivals giving them intel to help to bring us down.
The whole thing stinks that every club left it to Collingwood at pick 30!
I wish we had chosen Judd and we would have been premiers then.

They manipulated the draft and broke AFL rules in doing so.

[Mr Magic]

Ball can get stuffed. The way he got to Collingwood was a disgrace and the AFL endorsed cheating and manipulation for him to get there to get Eddie his premiership before GC and GWS came in.

What? You're so seriously misguided as usual. And bloody disrespectful. The Pies offered us Goldsack or Wellingham and a pick. And we played hard(stupid) ball and ended up getting nothing.

IIRC
We had virtually agreed with Collingwood that they would give us their pick #12 for Ball.
Then along came Ball's manager Paul Connors with another client that Collingwood wanted (Darren Jolly) and pick #12 went to Sydney.
We told Collingwood we didn't want either Goldsack or Wellingham but a pick. We told them we wanted a pick in the early 20's at least.
Collingwood tried to trade Wellingham to NM for one of their early 20's picks but NM didnt want him either.
Ball then publicly stated he would not play for anybody else and the Draft was effectively rigged so that he got through to Collingwood's pick #30.

[CURLY]

Ball can get stuffed. The way he got to Collingwood was a disgrace and the AFL endorsed cheating and manipulation for him to get there to get Eddie his premiership before GC and GWS came in.

What? You're so seriously misguided as usual. And bloody disrespectful. The Pies offered us Goldsack or Wellingham and a pick. And we played hard(stupid) ball and ended up getting nothing.

IIRC
We had virtually agreed with Collingwood that they would give us their pick #12 for Ball.
Then along came Ball's manager Paul Connors with another client that Collingwood wanted (Darren Jolly) and pick #12 went to Sydney.
We told Collingwood we didn't want either Goldsack or Wellingham but a pick. We told them we wanted a pick in the early 20's at least.
Collingwood tried to trade Wellingham to NM for one of their early 20's picks but NM didnt want him either.
Ball then publicly stated he would not play for anybody else and the Draft was effectively rigged so that he got through to Collingwood's pick #30.

The AFL allowed massive draft tampering but turned a blind eye.

[ace]

Ball can get stuffed. The way he got to Collingwood was a disgrace and the AFL endorsed cheating and manipulation for him to get there to get Eddie his premiership before GC and GWS came in.

What? You're so seriously misguided as usual. And bloody disrespectful. The Pies offered us Goldsack or Wellingham and a pick. And we played hard(stupid) ball and ended up getting nothing. All because of Ross' ego. Fvcking disgraceful list and team management. How was this a disgrace and cheating and manipulative?

You really should just concentrate on whinging about umpires.

For the record - Luke is a phenomenal bloke and very much a Saints man. That he didn't carry on like a knob after the 2010 GF2 and answer MIke's direct question last night should tell you everything.

We had enough list cloggers better off without Collingwood's rejects.

[SaintPav]

Ball can get stuffed. The way he got to Collingwood was a disgrace and the AFL endorsed cheating and manipulation for him to get there to get Eddie his premiership before GC and GWS came in.

What? You're so seriously misguided as usual. And bloody disrespectful. The Pies offered us Goldsack or Wellingham and a pick. And we played hard(stupid) ball and ended up getting nothing.

IIRC
We had virtually agreed with Collingwood that they would give us their pick #12 for Ball.
Then along came Ball's manager Paul Connors with another client that Collingwood wanted (Darren Jolly) and pick #12 went to Sydney.
We told Collingwood we didn't want either Goldsack or Wellingham but a pick. We told them we wanted a pick in the early 20's at least.
Collingwood tried to trade Wellingham to NM for one of their early 20's picks but NM didnt want him either.
Ball then publicly stated he would not play for anybody else and the Draft was effectively rigged so that he got through to Collingwood's pick #30.

I think this is right but first sentence about a deal already been done might be a bit overstated. I don’t remember it that way.

We really did get painted as the bad boys by the media.

[skeptic]

I think what often tends to get overlooked in this discussion is that RL made it clear to Ball that he personally, didn’t really rate/want Ball there.

This is evident in Mission’s book where they make it clear that they think he wouldn’t be able to get back to what he was and that he couldn’t run out games like they wanted him to.
Subsequently from mid-09 onwards his position comes under jeopardy and then in the GF, he’s rested for a 1/2 despite playing well in conditions that suited him.

If you’re Luke Ball, offer on the table or not... I don’t reckon you’ve got any choice but to leave.

The alarm bells are deafening

Who can make an argument that he did the wrong thing for himself?
He found a club that was willing to offer him a good deal and did what they wanted so they would take him as opposed to compromising that deal to pls the coach running him out of the club.

Very harsh to put all of this on Ball IMO

[Saintmatt]

Watching Open Mike didn’t make me feel warm to Ball.
The players at that time had a pact to stick together until they achieved the second premiership.
He bailed out on that agreement and went to arch rivals giving them intel to help to bring us down.
The whole thing stinks that every club left it to Collingwood at pick 30!
I wish we had chosen Judd and we would have been premiers then.

WTF are you re-writing history? Ball did not bail-out. He left because Lyon told him from mid-year onwards that he wasn't in his plans as he couldn't spread at speed like his gameplan required. And then the dick doubled-down on that by not playing him in the last quarter of a grand final that suited him perfectly and that he'd played very well in up until 3/4 time.

And then to prove it again - Lyon went and recruited Lovett! FFS.

Tell me - what did you want Luke to do? Stay at a club and play under a coach that had told him that he wasn't going to play him (and then sough to replace him with a speedy outside replacement)? You're utterly intellectually NQR if you think he should've stayed under those circumstances.

[Ghost Like]

I think what often tends to get overlooked in this discussion is that RL made it clear to Ball that he personally, didn’t really rate/want Ball there.

This is evident in Mission’s book where they make it clear that they think he wouldn’t be able to get back to what he was and that he couldn’t run out games like they wanted him to.
Subsequently from mid-09 onwards his position comes under jeopardy and then in the GF, he’s rested for a 1/2 despite playing well in conditions that suited him.

If you’re Luke Ball, offer on the table or not... I don’t reckon you’ve got any choice but to leave.

The alarm bells are deafening

Who can make an argument that he did the wrong thing for himself?
He found a club that was willing to offer him a good deal and did what they wanted so they would take him as opposed to compromising that deal to pls the coach running him out of the club.

Very harsh to put all of this on Ball IMO

Wise words skeptic, your last sentence makes much sense but does not make it any easier to swallow. I think it hurts that he went to the club that beat us in the following year's GF. If he'd gone to Essendon like Goddard did, much more palatable.

[Saintmatt]

Ball can get stuffed. The way he got to Collingwood was a disgrace and the AFL endorsed cheating and manipulation for him to get there to get Eddie his premiership before GC and GWS came in.

What? You're so seriously misguided as usual. And bloody disrespectful. The Pies offered us Goldsack or Wellingham and a pick. And we played hard(stupid) ball and ended up getting nothing. All because of Ross' ego. Fvcking disgraceful list and team management. How was this a disgrace and cheating and manipulative?

You really should just concentrate on whinging about umpires.

For the record - Luke is a phenomenal bloke and very much a Saints man. That he didn't carry on like a knob after the 2010 GF2 and answer MIke's direct question last night should tell you everything.

We had enough list cloggers better off without Collingwood's rejects.

Are you referring to the same two list cloggers that played for the Pies in their 2010 flag team .... AGAINST US? Goldsack was a bloody serviceable player who played another 8 goddamn years (last game 2018 GF). Wellingham had a reasonable next 7 YEARS at WCE.

How many more years did our bottom 5 list cloggers such as Eddy, Peake, McQualter, R Clarke etc play after 2009?

The fact we had so many list cloggers says everything about our shite drafting and even worse development.

[Mr Magic]

I think what often tends to get overlooked in this discussion is that RL made it clear to Ball that he personally, didn’t really rate/want Ball there.

This is evident in Mission’s book where they make it clear that they think he wouldn’t be able to get back to what he was and that he couldn’t run out games like they wanted him to.
Subsequently from mid-09 onwards his position comes under jeopardy and then in the GF, he’s rested for a 1/2 despite playing well in conditions that suited him.

If you’re Luke Ball, offer on the table or not... I don’t reckon you’ve got any choice but to leave.

The alarm bells are deafening

Who can make an argument that he did the wrong thing for himself?
He found a club that was willing to offer him a good deal and did what they wanted so they would take him as opposed to compromising that deal to pls the coach running him out of the club.

Very harsh to put all of this on Ball IMO

I've got no issue with a player wanting to leave a Club to go to another, for whatever reason.

BUT I do recall the public utterances at that time and Luke Ball allowed those around him to absolutely 'screw' us.
His silence at the time when his management went out of their way to portray us in a bad light was deafening.
Lots of players get to where they want to go without resorting to the character assassination resorted to by those around Ball at that time.
It was well documented on here back then that the Saints fitness staff were so concerned with Ball's inability to retain fitness (due to his op issues) that they even stopped him playing games after the Geelong match to try and give him a mini pre-season to get his fitness up.
No question he 'fell out' with the Coach and fitness staff and went looking for an alternate club. I don't believe Ball decided only after the GF to leave - I think his mind was well and truly made up long before that.
Ball did what he wanted to do, and good luck to him. He's a Collingwood Premiership player.
And I find it interesting that he finally told 'his story' to Mike Sheahan whose next story about St Kilda in a good light will be his first.

[SinCitySainter]

The issue I have with the Luke Ball scenario was how he got himself to his chosen destination.
It is one thing to nominate a club and then let the clubs organize a suitable deal.
Goldsack was not a suitable replacement and Wellingham was never on the table as I recall.
We requested Nathan Brown at the time but Collingwood would only offer Goldsack.
We tried to talk to other clubs about a reasonable trade.
Ball however refused to consider any other club and decided to go in the draft while telling all clubs except Collingwood that he would not play for them if they drafted him.
He and Collingwood cheated the draft and treated St Kilda and it's supporters with absolute contempt.
The AFL should have banned him from playing for manipulating the draft and Collingwood should have been banned from the draft for at least two years.
I loved Luke as a player and would have accepted him moving on and wished him all the best (accept against us of course) as he thought his position with St Kilda was untenable with RL at the helm.
However, because of how he went about it I have lost all respect for him.
He is a dog of a human and deserves no more than the full contempt of all St Kilda and their supporters.
Sorry, end of rant.

[johnearljames]

Loved Lukey Ball. Was a very good player.

[longtimesaint]

The issue I have with the Luke Ball scenario was how he got himself to his chosen destination.
It is one thing to nominate a club and then let the clubs organize a suitable deal.
Goldsack was not a suitable replacement and Wellingham was never on the table as I recall.
We requested Nathan Brown at the time but Collingwood would only offer Goldsack.
We tried to talk to other clubs about a reasonable trade.
Ball however refused to consider any other club and decided to go in the draft while telling all clubs except Collingwood that he would not play for them if they drafted him.
He and Collingwood cheated the draft and treated St Kilda and it's supporters with absolute contempt.
The AFL should have banned him from playing for manipulating the draft and Collingwood should have been banned from the draft for at least two years.
I loved Luke as a player and would have accepted him moving on and wished him all the best (accept against us of course) as he thought his position with St Kilda was untenable with RL at the helm.
However, because of how he went about it I have lost all respect for him.
He is a dog of a human and deserves no more than the full contempt of all St Kilda and their supporters.
Sorry, end of rant.

I agree and do not remember Luke Ball fondly as he shafted us.
I don’t have much time for Lyon and I still think it was a mistake sacking Grant Thomas.
However he was offered a new three year contract so Lyon can’t have told him that he wouldn’t play him.
The fact that we couldn’t even deal with any other club is what dissapoints most and Ball was a party to gross manipulation of the AFL rules.

[saynta]

I think what often tends to get overlooked in this discussion is that RL made it clear to Ball that he personally, didn’t really rate/want Ball there.

This is evident in Mission’s book where they make it clear that they think he wouldn’t be able to get back to what he was and that he couldn’t run out games like they wanted him to.
Subsequently from mid-09 onwards his position comes under jeopardy and then in the GF, he’s rested for a 1/2 despite playing well in conditions that suited him.

If you’re Luke Ball, offer on the table or not... I don’t reckon you’ve got any choice but to leave.

The alarm bells are deafening

Who can make an argument that he did the wrong thing for himself?
He found a club that was willing to offer him a good deal and did what they wanted so they would take him as opposed to compromising that deal to pls the coach running him out of the club.

Very harsh to put all of this on Ball IMO

Wise words skeptic, your last sentence makes much sense but does not make it any easier to swallow. I think it hurts that he went to the club that beat us in the following year's GF. If he'd gone to Essendon like Goddard did, much more palatable.

A saints player going to the filth or the drug cheats will never be acceptable to me.

[saynta]

I think what often tends to get overlooked in this discussion is that RL made it clear to Ball that he personally, didn’t really rate/want Ball there.

This is evident in Mission’s book where they make it clear that they think he wouldn’t be able to get back to what he was and that he couldn’t run out games like they wanted him to.
Subsequently from mid-09 onwards his position comes under jeopardy and then in the GF, he’s rested for a 1/2 despite playing well in conditions that suited him.

If you’re Luke Ball, offer on the table or not... I don’t reckon you’ve got any choice but to leave.

The alarm bells are deafening

Who can make an argument that he did the wrong thing for himself?
He found a club that was willing to offer him a good deal and did what they wanted so they would take him as opposed to compromising that deal to pls the coach running him out of the club.

Very harsh to put all of this on Ball IMO

I've got no issue with a player wanting to leave a Club to go to another, for whatever reason.

BUT I do recall the public utterances at that time and Luke Ball allowed those around him to absolutely 'screw' us.
His silence at the time when his management went out of their way to portray us in a bad light was deafening.
Lots of players get to where they want to go without resorting to the character assassination resorted to by those around Ball at that time.
It was well documented on here back then that the Saints fitness staff were so concerned with Ball's inability to retain fitness (due to his op issues) that they even stopped him playing games after the Geelong match to try and give him a mini pre-season to get his fitness up.
No question he 'fell out' with the Coach and fitness staff and went looking for an alternate club. I don't believe Ball decided only after the GF to leave - I think his mind was well and truly made up long before that.
Ball did what he wanted to do, and good luck to him. He's a Collingwood Premiership player.
And I find it interesting that he finally told 'his story' to Mike Sheahan whose next story about St Kilda in a good light will be his first.

So true about that prick Sheahan. He hounded Plugger out of town.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Meh.

GT shouldn't have been sacked but he was no great match-day coach and a bit of a firebrand. Under him we scored some huge victories but there were also days when the boys just didn't show up.

RL was a great tactical coach and we suffered almost no floggings under him. Unfortunately he was also blinkered about his philosophies and besotted with role-playing mediocrities.

GT's 04/05 team was arguably better than RL's 08-09 team but crippled with injuries. RL was very unlucky not to be a dual premiership coach.

[saynta]

Ross, the flosser tosser lost the only two games that really mattered. He left a shithouse legacy.

[Toy Saint]

Personally I loathed Ross Lyon, but it always puzzled me that guys like Riewoldt and Goddard speak quite well of him.

[saynta]

Personally I loathed Ross Lyon, but it always puzzled me that guys like Riewoldt and Goddard speak quite well of him.

The AFL is a very tight knit close family. One can't afford to bag anyone and continue working in the organisation.

[Devilhead]

We can all agree on one point that ......

St Kilda is cursed

[Ghost Like]

Meh.

GT shouldn't have been sacked but he was no great match-day coach and a bit of a firebrand. Under him we scored some huge victories but there were also days when the boys just didn't show up.

RL was a great tactical coach and we suffered almost no floggings under him. Unfortunately he was also blinkered about his philosophies and besotted with role-playing mediocrities.

GT's 04/05 team was arguably better than RL's 08-09 team but crippled with injuries. RL was very unlucky not to be a dual premiership coach.

Brilliant summary of history & people as far as I'm concerned. Very kind to GT but his koolaid was delicious. apparently. If you could change "he shouldn't have been sacked" to "he shouldn't have been appointed", I'm 100% on board. Rendell was the brains, except he was limited to copying the successful Lions game plan. Burke inspired the players to commit to the jumper.

I know this because I heard all three speak during their tenure at the time.

[freely]

Who would want to work at a club where the coach doesn't want to play them? And the intel that went to Collingwood was courtesy of Max, not Ball - cut in 2009 before the bounce. And I can't blame him either. Let's face it, we all know where the blame lies.

[Ghost Like]

I thought Max & Luke began at Collingwood in the same year. Whichever way it goes, I can guarantee Malthouse will not give either credit. Not wanting to explain why Collingwood's biggest weakness in 2009 became their strength in 2010. The same strength St Kilda had enjoyed for both years.

[Joffa Burns]

Ball giving Collingwood intel on our game plan from 2009 helped cost us, and give Collingwood, the 2010 premiership. He will be remembered mainly for three things - being a Collingwood premiership player, passing the ball to Gardiner for "that" mark in 2009, and being the player drafted between Hodge and Judd.

Being BJs step ladder in the drawn GF.

[To the top]

If I recall correctly, Ball missed his first year due to studies

My thoughts thru his early career were that he played some very good football (one match at Geelong which an injury decimated side lost narrowly, hauled into the contest by Ball (Fisher and Ferguson were our key defenders on speculation with Fisher never looking back having come from West Adelaide as a forward)

But Ball could not sustain week in and week out so we got the very good games 1 week in 4 (and perhaps OP even then?)

Then OP and a good ordinary player

I specifically recall fumbling (and frustrated?) in the centre square

Plus there was no capacity to spread and hurt the opposition which Lyon demanded

So he was not a first pick - hence the game time afforded to him by Lyon

The lack of compensation from Collingwood was what it was

My observations anyway

And I view we lost those GF’s because whilst we had undoubted class out bottom 4 to 6 were not up to it. We lost them courtesy of our bottom not our top (hopefully we learn with the top end talent we have assembled now)

Lovett, with pace and skill was an asset we lacked - the icing on the cake

Unfortunately it did not work out but the deficiency we had which led to Lovett was correctly identified

And again unfortunately, we did not seek that required resource from elsewhere instead going with “role players” as small forwards - and it cost us

Plus Lyon, to me, appeared adverse to giving youth opportunity to develop with class players around them - hence Peake, Birss and others whose names I forget

So chew on that!