Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 19 Aug 2020 12:12pm
Maybe Luke did walk out for money, but here in lies the dilemna. How did the St K FC let a former captain walk?
You could see from Luke’s reaction in GF2 that he cared for his former team mates and the St Kilda FC. Ross destroyed the unity and the bond between players that GT had built. Grant cared for the players and he loved/loves the Saints. Ross only cared about himself
Ross destroyed the unity and the bond between players that GT had built. That is what happened. The other thing that happened was that Ross was a novice who f***ed up our best chance at flag success in 2009. Luke is on record as saying in the program that St Kilda were ‘clearly’ the best team in 2009.
Grant left a legacy that meant we would be contenders for several years after he was sacked. No matter how you interpret Ross’s time with us, it is evident that we had a core young group under GT who were building and had just started tasting finals
RL’s flawed footy philosophies left us with a legacy of being a bottom dweller for several years after he dumped on us.
Ross dumped on the club and on his players who he wrongly accused of being washed up and who he had no more faith in. In 2011 Ross prematurely declared the ‘end of an era’? So not only does RL screw the club but he also screws with the players heads...And I wouldn’t care as much now, but he just didn’t get it done
Wow.
Wonder how we would have gone with horse as our coach? He was the front runner up until the last minute.
Walls who was on the panel was very impressed by Lyon.
Walls and Lyon are mates.
Connect the dots.
Horse? Dunno...maybe...he did win one after all
I know that the club would have improved in aspects of the footy department and the young guns...well we know that a stack of them hit their prime 2007-2011
Anyhow...Rendell said it best. We would have won at least 2 flags under Thomo. Guaranteed!!
CURLY wrote: ↑Wed 19 Aug 2020 10:40am
Ball can get stuffed. The way he got to Collingwood was a disgrace and the AFL endorsed cheating and manipulation for him to get there to get Eddie his premiership before GC and GWS came in.
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 19 Aug 2020 12:12pm
Maybe Luke did walk out for money, but here in lies the dilemna. How did the St K FC let a former captain walk?
You could see from Luke’s reaction in GF2 that he cared for his former team mates and the St Kilda FC. Ross destroyed the unity and the bond between players that GT had built. Grant cared for the players and he loved/loves the Saints. Ross only cared about himself
Ross destroyed the unity and the bond between players that GT had built. That is what happened. The other thing that happened was that Ross was a novice who f***ed up our best chance at flag success in 2009. Luke is on record as saying in the program that St Kilda were ‘clearly’ the best team in 2009.
Grant left a legacy that meant we would be contenders for several years after he was sacked. No matter how you interpret Ross’s time with us, it is evident that we had a core young group under GT who were building and had just started tasting finals
RL’s flawed footy philosophies left us with a legacy of being a bottom dweller for several years after he dumped on us.
Ross dumped on the club and on his players who he wrongly accused of being washed up and who he had no more faith in. In 2011 Ross prematurely declared the ‘end of an era’? So not only does RL screw the club but he also screws with the players heads...And I wouldn’t care as much now, but he just didn’t get it done
Wow.
Wonder how we would have gone with horse as our coach? He was the front runner up until the last minute.
Walls who was on the panel was very impressed by Lyon.
Walls and Lyon are mates.
Connect the dots.
Horse? Dunno...maybe...he did win one after all
I know that the club would have improved in aspects of the footy department and the young guns...well we know that a stack of them hit their prime 2007-2011
Anyhow...Rendell said it best. We would have won at least 2 flags under Thomo. Guaranteed!!
It's funny you know this point doesn't get nearly as much recognition as it should which is possibly due to that big toe that gets all of the recognition for why we didn't get the win.
I remember being very confident earlier in the week but was keeping my eye on the forecast. I remember the weather pre occupying my mind at the parade and when I took my seat at the MCG on GF day I was considerably nervous about the impact of the weather.
I remember it being 9 degress and having to shut the window in the corporate box as the wind was driving the rain in sideways.
Totally agree that we would have been a goal or two better off had it been a mild and dry day.
Clearly we had the defensive side of the game covered, we won every stat except the one that matters.
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 19 Aug 2020 12:12pm
Maybe Luke did walk out for money, but here in lies the dilemna. How did the St K FC let a former captain walk?
You could see from Luke’s reaction in GF2 that he cared for his former team mates and the St Kilda FC. Ross destroyed the unity and the bond between players that GT had built. Grant cared for the players and he loved/loves the Saints. Ross only cared about himself
Ross destroyed the unity and the bond between players that GT had built. That is what happened. The other thing that happened was that Ross was a novice who f***ed up our best chance at flag success in 2009. Luke is on record as saying in the program that St Kilda were ‘clearly’ the best team in 2009.
Grant left a legacy that meant we would be contenders for several years after he was sacked. No matter how you interpret Ross’s time with us, it is evident that we had a core young group under GT who were building and had just started tasting finals
RL’s flawed footy philosophies left us with a legacy of being a bottom dweller for several years after he dumped on us.
Ross dumped on the club and on his players who he wrongly accused of being washed up and who he had no more faith in. In 2011 Ross prematurely declared the ‘end of an era’? So not only does RL screw the club but he also screws with the players heads...And I wouldn’t care as much now, but he just didn’t get it done
Here we go again. Another copy/paste from your RL/GT template, which you regurgitate at every chance, with minor updates. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, it is still rubbish. Surprised you had to edit it after so much practice.
The weather forecast wasn’t a surprise. That is within his control and that could have been and should have been planned for....weeks if not months ahead. It’s within a coaches control to train with a wet footy and have a game plan that suits
Lyin balmed poor kicking for our loss in 2009. I am yet to see a cup handed to a team leading at half time or 3 quarter time. His game plan cost us the flag as did a few other things he could control
There was this debate about whether Lyon should have rested his players at all because they lost momentum. It was very clear with a few players underperforming in the finals and also some of them having played 2-3 rounds with niggles, they just couldn’t overcome some injuries to key players. We were 14...zip...15 ...zip...16 zip...? Why did he wait until Round 19? Also within his control
Although 2009 was prior to the mid season bye and long before any pre finals bye the taxing nature of his game plan meant that there would be a price to pay at some stage if ya don’t manage the workloads. Ya can’t thrash a ferrari and just take the risk while you are revving at 5000 RPM’s. You were a lap ahead ya numbscull!
Last edited by Scollop on Wed 19 Aug 2020 2:25pm, edited 1 time in total.
The weather forecast wasn’t a surprise. That is within his control and that could have been and should have been planned for....weeks if not months ahead. It’s within a coaches control to train with a wet footy and have a game plan that suits
Lyin balmed poor kicking for our loss in 2009. I am yet to see a cup handed to a team leading at half time or 3 quarter time. His game plan cost us the flag as did a few other things he could control
There was this debate about whether Lyon should have rested his players at all because they lost momentum. It was very clear with a few players underperforming in the finals and also some of them having played 2-3 rounds with niggles, they just couldn’t overcome some injuries to key players. Also within his control
Although 2009 was prior to the mid season bye and long before any pre finals bye the taxing nature of his game plan meant that there would be a price to pay at some stage if ya don’t manage the workloads. Ya can’t thrash a ferrari and just take the risk while you are revving at 5000 RPM’s. You were a lap ahead ya numbscull!
Our biggest weapon was Roo and Kosi once it rained it took them back to the pack. He can't train for that.
Come off it! You play for the chance to win a Grand Final and you’re telling me that there was no planning for wet weather and we just went into the whole year without ANY plan B?
OK. We should have just handed Geelong the cup and didn’t need to even turn up then
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 19 Aug 2020 2:29pm
Come off it! You play for the chance to win a Grand Final and you’re telling me that there was no planning for wet weather and we just went into the whole year without ANY plan B?
OK. We should have just handed Geelong the cup and didn’t need to even turn up then
Your right should have delisted Roo and Kosi at the start of the season.
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 19 Aug 2020 2:29pm
Come off it! You play for the chance to win a Grand Final and you’re telling me that there was no planning for wet weather and we just went into the whole year without ANY plan B?
OK. We should have just handed Geelong the cup and didn’t need to even turn up then
Your right should have delisted Roo and Kosi at the start of the season.
That’s nearly as ridiculous as a coach going into a wet weather Grand Final match with Blake, Kosi, Roo, Gardiner and Steven King ALL in the same side
All within his control CURLY. Stop making excuses for him
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 19 Aug 2020 11:51am
Luke spoke about Grant Thomas in glowing terms. “Grant had a great ability to build a young group. Thomo was a new coach and he was fantastic for the group.” Luke said Grant had them ‘playing’ for him every week. He said Grant was a bit of a ‘father figure’. He said these days we’ve got the game moving that way with coach-player relationship being very important. Grant showed he cared for the players.
St Kilda would have had success with that young group being neck and neck with Geelong in their development pre 2007. They had continuity and we sacked the bloke who the players loved playing for. We just got impatient and....Geelong won 3 premierships
Everything goes back to that decision by Butters to sack Thomas so that he could take him to court six months later
It may have worked if Grant hired a few good tactical assistants and listened to them and actioned their ideas.
Not sure Grant was very good at that. Heard otherwise.
That's correct Pav, GT was a one-man band, very passionate and opinionated, which many coaches are, including Ross Lyon. Between the two of them they managed to squander the best opportunities St Kilda had in a decade or more to win more premierships.
Following Lyon and the failed Scott Watters, Alan Richardson was a different personality again, but I always felt he lacked passion, or maybe he chose to hide that from the public. If his media performances are a guide it is little wonder that his teams lacked flair and aggression and ended up nowhere.
Brett Ratten fortunately is more like what I would regard as the perfect coach, consultative with a blend of compassion and passion, can be "bad cop" if required to demand better from players.
"Any candidate for political office, once chosen for leadership, must have the will to take the wheel of a very powerful car, tasked from time to time to make a fast journey down a narrow, precipitous mountain road – and be highly skilled at driving. Otherwise, he is disqualified from the company of competent leaders."
John Carroll, Professor Emeritus of Sociology at La Trobe University.
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 19 Aug 2020 2:29pm
Come off it! You play for the chance to win a Grand Final and you’re telling me that there was no planning for wet weather and we just went into the whole year without ANY plan B?
OK. We should have just handed Geelong the cup and didn’t need to even turn up then
Your right should have delisted Roo and Kosi at the start of the season.
That’s nearly as ridiculous as a coach going into a wet weather Grand Final match with Blake, Kosi, Roo, Gardiner and Steven King ALL in the same side
All within his control CURLY. Stop making excuses for him
So you agree with me then thanks for clearing that up.
fugazi wrote: ↑Tue 18 Aug 2020 11:41pm
Not direct swap obviously, but in the interview it was said that they went for outside speed and so let Luke Ball go and preferred Lovett and Peake who they brought on instead.
Would have been better than Eddy in 2010.
Ball probably made up his mind to leave half way through the season.
Certainly better than Eddy in 2010. At that point though I was still scratching my head as to why we chased Cousins after holding the door open and encouraging Harves to retire. Must be something about the surname Harvey being finished up when still infinitely better than others on the list.
I definitely believe Ball had made up his mind half way through the season if not had at least a handshake agreement. This still does not explain what happened with him on GF day, a simply very poor coaching error.
Can you imagine the difference Harvey could have made to the team in those finals instead of McQualter and Eddy. There are other players that should have been played before these two. Steven, Armitage, Geary, Gwilt(in 09) to name a few. I will never forgive Lyon for some of his decisions which cost us 2 premierships. He actually delisted both players just before he left in 2011 which I guess is an acknowledgement of those selection errors.
Last edited by StPeter on Wed 19 Aug 2020 3:11pm, edited 1 time in total.
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 19 Aug 2020 2:29pm
Come off it! You play for the chance to win a Grand Final and you’re telling me that there was no planning for wet weather and we just went into the whole year without ANY plan B?
OK. We should have just handed Geelong the cup and didn’t need to even turn up then
Your right should have delisted Roo and Kosi at the start of the season.
That’s nearly as ridiculous as a coach going into a wet weather Grand Final match with Blake, Kosi, Roo, Gardiner and Steven King ALL in the same side
All within his control CURLY. Stop making excuses for him
So you agree with me then thanks for clearing that up.
Are you saying it was the correct decision in the wet to go in with 2 recognised ruckman, a back up ruck in Kosi and Another backup up ruck in Blake as well as Roo who also contested or at least went 3 rd man up in many ruck contests? Would we have been better off without Blake in the team or maybe without King in the starting line up?
What I don’t get is that if it paid off, it would have been brilliant and you are probably going to say it was the correct decision and yet at the same time you are using the talls and the weather as a valid excuse. You can’t have it both ways. It didn’t work!
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 19 Aug 2020 2:29pm
Come off it! You play for the chance to win a Grand Final and you’re telling me that there was no planning for wet weather and we just went into the whole year without ANY plan B?
OK. We should have just handed Geelong the cup and didn’t need to even turn up then
Your right should have delisted Roo and Kosi at the start of the season.
That’s nearly as ridiculous as a coach going into a wet weather Grand Final match with Blake, Kosi, Roo, Gardiner and Steven King ALL in the same side
All within his control CURLY. Stop making excuses for him
So you agree with me then thanks for clearing that up.
Are you saying it was the correct decision in the wet to go in with 2 recognised ruckman, a back up ruck in Kosi and Another backup up ruck in Blake as well as Roo who also contested or at least went 3 rd man up in many ruck contests?
Your saying Lyon should have dropped players that got us to a grand final and destroy our structure and methods. Clearly your taking the piss or just wishing to be argumentative.
Ball giving Collingwood intel on our game plan from 2009 helped cost us, and give Collingwood, the 2010 premiership. He will be remembered mainly for three things - being a Collingwood premiership player, passing the ball to Gardiner for "that" mark in 2009, and being the player drafted between Hodge and Judd.
CURLY wrote: ↑Wed 19 Aug 2020 10:40am
Ball can get stuffed. The way he got to Collingwood was a disgrace and the AFL endorsed cheating and manipulation for him to get there to get Eddie his premiership before GC and GWS came in.
What? You're so seriously misguided as usual. And bloody disrespectful. The Pies offered us Goldsack or Wellingham and a pick. And we played hard(stupid) ball and ended up getting nothing. All because of Ross' ego. Fvcking disgraceful list and team management. How was this a disgrace and cheating and manipulative?
You really should just concentrate on whinging about umpires.
For the record - Luke is a phenomenal bloke and very much a Saints man. That he didn't carry on like a knob after the 2010 GF2 and answer MIke's direct question last night should tell you everything.
saint64 wrote: ↑Wed 19 Aug 2020 3:35pm
Ball giving Collingwood intel on our game plan from 2009 helped cost us, and give Collingwood, the 2010 premiership. He will be remembered mainly for three things - being a Collingwood premiership player, passing the ball to Gardiner for "that" mark in 2009, and being the player drafted between Hodge and Judd.
Think you'll find Max H played a far more important role in disseminating Lyon's IP to Collingwood. Didn't exactly leave on good terms with that particular Saints football management regime either did Max
CURLY wrote: ↑Wed 19 Aug 2020 10:40am
Ball can get stuffed. The way he got to Collingwood was a disgrace and the AFL endorsed cheating and manipulation for him to get there to get Eddie his premiership before GC and GWS came in.
What? You're so seriously misguided as usual. And bloody disrespectful. The Pies offered us Goldsack or Wellingham and a pick. And we played hard(stupid) ball and ended up getting nothing. All because of Ross' ego. Fvcking disgraceful list and team management. How was this a disgrace and cheating and manipulative?
You really should just concentrate on whinging about umpires.
For the record - Luke is a phenomenal bloke and very much a Saints man. That he didn't carry on like a knob after the 2010 GF2 and answer MIke's direct question last night should tell you everything.
All bulls***. Those names were spewed out by Collingwood media after the fact. Collingwood manipulated the draft to get Ball and knew they could so offered us squat.
Watching Open Mike didn’t make me feel warm to Ball.
The players at that time had a pact to stick together until they achieved the second premiership.
He bailed out on that agreement and went to arch rivals giving them intel to help to bring us down.
The whole thing stinks that every club left it to Collingwood at pick 30!
I wish we had chosen Judd and we would have been premiers then.
