Alan Richo should get some credit

[johnearljames]

No dramas that Richo is gone and Ratts is coach but Alan needs to take some credit with the development of some of our younger players like Billings, Gresh, Battle, etc. He was part of the process that now has us in real finals contention even though he has been long gone.

Alan, yes you were never taking us to the finals but you are not forgotten.

[skeptic]

Lol

Yeah... he left and the recruits we couldn’t attract came
Players that formed his core and were seemingly untouchable were moved on
The majority of the list has started playing better with a marked improvement in the skills he said they didn’t have
And his new club is performing below expectations

Definitely not forgotten

[Saintmatt]

Respectfully disagree with the OP. I regard Cho as the most one dimensional coach we've had since Graham Gellie and Baldock. Much was made of our poor midfield etc but just remember for the first couple of years - Cho still had Lenny, Fisher, Gilbert, a lot of Roo, Steven. He was a truly awful Senior Coach. Our flaw was that we extended him when we had no need to.

Did he do everything wrong? No. Not at all. Much has to do with the environment and recruiting around the coach. We drafted poorly and then developed even worse. My gut feel is that the players we've got now who've become good have almost done it in spite of those leading them. The fact that he clearly lost the respect of the senior players says it all.

I've not missed his coaching nor game plan nor monotonous media performances one iota. Good luck to him but, I view the last 6 years as largely wasted - with a couple of false dawns thrown in for amusement/torture.

[shanegrambeau]

I am not sure about your motivation here - admittedly, I’m often not sure of my own, and I Know better - but it sounds like ‘rat among the pigeons’ kind of post.

Richo coached St Kilda through some forgettable years, let’s be honest. As did the fellow before him. From a distance, it seems that Richo was a stoic and calm guy who gave it a good shot.

But I am interested in the role that these (for want of a better phrase) ‘processes, or KPIs, or metrics, and how the club determines things, systems etc.’ had in keeping him in the post for so long. Was was flawed? Or was it just inertia?

Have to agree with Skeptic, but was it Richo’s fault that Weller, Newnes, etc. were picked up? No...but the buck had to stop somewhere, right? And the whole fiasco of the big forward with concussions? Seaford. The dreadful dark ages of ‘rebuild’ ...Gee, it makes my eyes and ears bleed when that word appears in front of me now.

Bless Richo for sure. But boy, we have moved on.and I’m thankful for that.

[SaintPav]

I think it's a fair and reasonable question.

Does Richo deserve any credit?

I think yes, maybe a little.

Personally, I'm glad we moved on. Probably stayed on 1 year too long.

[st.byron]

Respectfully disagree with the OP. I regard Cho as the most one dimensional coach we've had since Graham Gellie and Baldock. Much was made of our poor midfield etc but just remember for the first couple of years - Cho still had Lenny, Fisher, Gilbert, a lot of Roo, Steven. He was a truly awful Senior Coach. Our flaw was that we extended him when we had no need to.

Did he do everything wrong? No. Not at all. Much has to do with the environment and recruiting around the coach. We drafted poorly and then developed even worse. My gut feel is that the players we've got now who've become good have almost done it in spite of those leading them. The fact that he clearly lost the respect of the senior players says it all.

I've not missed his coaching nor game plan nor monotonous media performances one iota. Good luck to him but, I view the last 6 years as largely wasted - with a couple of false dawns thrown in for amusement/torture.

Trolling OP IMO. Regarding Richo, Matt’s response pretty much nailed it.

[skeptic]

I am not sure about your motivation here - admittedly, I’m often not sure of my own, and I Know better - but it sounds like ‘rat among the pigeons’ kind of post.

Richo coached St Kilda through some forgettable years, let’s be honest. As did the fellow before him. From a distance, it seems that Richo was a stoic and calm guy who gave it a good shot.

But I am interested in the role that these (for want of a better phrase) ‘processes, or KPIs, or metrics, and how the club determines things, systems etc.’ had in keeping him in the post for so long. Was was flawed? Or was it just inertia?

Have to agree with Skeptic, but was it Richo’s fault that Weller, Newnes, etc. were picked up? No...but the buck had to stop somewhere, right? And the whole fiasco of the big forward with concussions? Seaford. The dreadful dark ages of ‘rebuild’ ...Gee, it makes my eyes and ears bleed when that word appears in front of me now.

Bless Richo for sure. But boy, we have moved on.and I’m thankful for that.

The motivation is very clearly to troll and perhaps to try and save face for over the top gruff directed at the many vocal critics of Richo here that were clearly right if perhaps too frustrated over the last year or so.

Easily the worst Saints coach of my lifetime... far worse than Timid Tim who even in his utter failure left us a better legacy after promptly realising his wasn’t up to the task. Only took him a year and a half and then he honourably fell on his sword rather than drag it out like Richo did to the latest possible stage.

[Secret Kiel]

Gee we are cockahoot at the moment aren't we.

You'd swear we are a lock for a flag dynasty.

We have won a few games in a compromised season.

5 new recruits since changing coaches and most of them are going to be great assets although Paddy wont be at the club long and Howard's performance against a qualtiy foward line keeps the jury out for the astute observer.

There is a fair amount of Richo's positive DNA in this current list. Ratts is good but he's only been in the job since October last year and we'll really need to see how the team goes when we start playing full strength competition again before we can start puffing our chests too far.

Yea Richo gets a big chunk of credit but so does the club in the way they seamlessly transitioned the coaches. It was very Un St Kilda like and very professionally and successfully handled. Richo would be welcome to visit the club anytime so there is your evidence of the positive legacy he left and how mucy credit he is entitled to.

[thejiggingsaint]

I have absolutely nothing personal against Alan Richardson. Sadly, it was one of those appointments that promised much, (and initially showed some positive signs) but ultimately was shown to be an error (as so many such appointments have been in our past) The decision to move on and appoint Brett Ratten as Senior Coach, is showing signs of an improved vibe at the club. Perhaps we now know why, Alan was an assistant coach for so long....... a case of him being more of an "able lieutenant" rather than a "Commander"???? I wish him well, and thank him for his efforts.

[johnearljames]

This thread is about Richo's development of our younger players that were drafted or traded in during his reign, not his coaching ability or record or personality. Young fellas like Dunstan, Billings, Steele, Membrey, Gresh, etc.

Read the post properly next time for the skeptics.

Fact is, Alan developed a few of our young fellas pretty well it seems. Ratts has put the icing on the cake.

[johnearljames]

I have absolutely nothing personal against Alan Richardson. Sadly, it was one of those appointments that promised much, (and initially showed some positive signs) but ultimately was shown to be an error (as so many such appointments have been in our past) The decision to move on and appoint Brett Ratten as Senior Coach, is showing signs of an improved vibe at the club. Perhaps we now know why, Alan was an assistant coach for so long....... a case of him being more of an "able lieutenant" rather than a "Commander"???? I wish him well, and thank him for his efforts.

Well said dude.

[thejiggingsaint]

This thread is about Richo's development of our younger players that were drafted or traded in during his reign, not his coaching ability or record or personality. Young fellas like Dunstan, Billings, Steele, Membrey, Gresh, etc.

Read the post properly next time for the skeptics.

Fact is, Alan developed a few of our young fellas pretty well it seems. Ratts has put the icing on the cake.

Good points Colleague. One has to be a wee bit pragmatic re: the tenure of Alan Richardson, and for my money, he was well worth taking a punt on, (compared to who the incumbent was at the time) Richo had many good qualities and perhaps we all need to recognise the merits of these as well as his shortcomings as a matchday coach.

[johnearljames]

This thread is about Richo's development of our younger players that were drafted or traded in during his reign, not his coaching ability or record or personality. Young fellas like Dunstan, Billings, Steele, Membrey, Gresh, etc.

Read the post properly next time for the skeptics.

Fact is, Alan developed a few of our young fellas pretty well it seems. Ratts has put the icing on the cake.

Good points Colleague. One has to be a wee bit pragmatic re: the tenure of Alan Richardson, and for my money, he was well worth taking a punt on, (compared to who the incumbent was at the time) Richo had many good qualities and perhaps we all need to recognise the merits of these as well as his shortcomings as a matchday coach.

It seems JiggingSaint that these kids that have developed have had two good parents even though they were both men!

[CQ SAINT]

Richo developed our highest draft picks in his time, that still exist that is, well. Yeah, whatever.

[skeptic]

This thread is about Richo's development of our younger players that were drafted or traded in during his reign, not his coaching ability or record or personality. Young fellas like Dunstan, Billings, Steele, Membrey, Gresh, etc.

Read the post properly next time for the skeptics.

Fact is, Alan developed a few of our young fellas pretty well it seems. Ratts has put the icing on the cake.

It does seem odd to have to divorce Richo’s coaching ability from the development of players he coached... but given who we’re talking about, it does seem entirely plausible that in his philosophy, coaching and development are entirely unconnected.
Hence I guess that criticism should stand.

Regardless, it feels flawed giving Richo credit for development of players that have improved markedly, appear more skilled and are far more consistent in performance from immediately following the period he left.

[HardSaint]

some would argue that the devolopment of Billings, Gresh and others was stunted by Richo and that these players should have bloomed much earlier and perhaps, because of Richo's involvement, they may never become the players they could have been

We'll never know how good Acres might have been

[samoht]

AR got whatever he could out of the available talent and quite a few players developed well under him - Battle, Steele, Sinclair (he was our only elite player at one stage), Webster, Roberton, etc ....
Savage was only a fringe player at the Hawks - and he became a solid player for us.

[Scollop]

Billings would have been a better player under a different coach. He got away with too much under Cho and he developed bad habits. Same with Gresh. Cho needed to stamp out the bad habits before they became ingrained. Cho failed and both players have flaws in their game.

Billings was always a beautiful kick from day 1...that's why he was taken at number 3 in the draft. Same with Gresh. He was always going to be a first round draft pick

Dunny was a very talented junior and a worthy addition in our best 22 in his early years. He stagnated under Cho

Steele, and Membrey both came from other clubs. Their development is not due to Cho. Both were not considered best 22 by Cho.

Jack Steele was dropped at every opportunity in favour of Seb Ross or Newnes or Weller or Koby Stevens or a cooked oldie like Armo. Jack just fought his way back in and made it impossible for Cho to drop him again

Membrey also had to fight his way into the side because Cho preferred some slightly younger bloke who Cho thought was a ' little beauty'. He'll be "ripper" he used to say of the bloke that Cho had annointed as the better option to play in the forward line

Yep...there's definitely lots of evidence to prove Richo deserves zero credit...for the life of me I'd love for someone to produce evidence to the contrary

[johnearljames]

AR got whatever he could out of the available talent and quite a few players developed well under him - Battle, Steele, Sinclair - he was our only elite player at one stage, Webster, Roberton, etc ....
Savage was only a fringe player at the Hawks - and he became a solid player for us.

All true. The bloke wasn't a master developer but he did help develop quite a bit of our current list and best youngish players.

[Scollop]

Even Gears could not handle any more of Cho's negativity. He wasn't good at identifying players' strengths or nurturing talent. Cho did not coach well...full stop!!

[Scollop]

Anyway...if cockhead A says to cockhead B that we are going to make finals because of Cho and they both agree...that's fine by me

[skeptic]

Billings would have been a better player under a different coach. He got away with too much under Cho and he developed bad habits. Same with Gresh. Cho needed to stamp out the bad habits before they became ingrained. Cho failed and both players have flaws in their game.

Billings was always a beautiful kick from day 1...that's why he was taken at number 3 in the draft. Same with Gresh. He was always going to be a first round draft pick

Dunny was a very talented junior and a worthy addition in our best 22 in his early years. He stagnated under Cho

Steele, and Membrey both came from other clubs. Their development is not due to Cho. Both were not considered best 22 by Cho.

Jack Steele was dropped at every opportunity in favour of Seb Ross or Newnes or Weller or Koby Stevens or a cooked oldie like Armo. Jack just fought his way back in and made it impossible for Cho to drop him again

Membrey also had to fight his way into the side because Cho preferred some slightly younger bloke who Cho thought was a ' little beauty'. He'll be "ripper" he used to say of the bloke that Cho had annointed as the better option to play in the forward line

Yep...there's definitely lots of evidence to prove Richo deserves zero credit...for the life of me I'd love for someone to produce evidence to the contrary

Disturbingly true.

Don’t forget Rowan Marshall... barely played early and was 4th behind behind Hickey, Longer and Pierce

Took Longer and Hickey to be out injured for him to have an opportunity for more than a couple of games in a row... and it took Pierce and Longer to be injured for him to get opportunity in his break out season.

5 years and Richo couldn’t figure out how to get two rucks in the same team relying on Bruce, Acres and even Steele in one game to ruck for a bit.
Every football fan I know went from laughing at the Saints to genuinely pitying our club

[skeptic]

Anyway...if cockhead A says to cockhead B that we are going to make finals because of Cho and they both agree...that's fine by me

Remember the 2019 mantra of... we’re building something special and Richo is proving the doubters wrong. That 7 point win against Freo who lost 3players to injury at 1/4 is proof that we’re on the right track.

Painful

[samoht]

Clarko recruited ready made, talented players - such as Scully, Mitchell, O Meara, Frawley, Wyngard, etc.. and has tried to blend them into a team with other established champs such as Isaac Smith, Breust, Gunston, and develop these credentialed recruits further, but he has failed.

All coaches can be criticised - it's easy to mount a case against any coach.

And players such as Jack Sinclair, Roberton, Steele, etc... have managed to get the most out of their talent ... they deserve most of the credit.

[johnearljames]

Anyway...if cockhead A says to cockhead B that we are going to make finals because of Cho and they both agree...that's fine by me

So is Scollop and Skeptic the same poster or best mates?