Our forward line is why we MUST play two rucks

[nostalgicsaint]

The forward line has been our main issue. One thing not having two rucks does is leave us a tall target short down forward.

When Marshall is down there king and members are able to isolate.

Think we have to go two rucks for the rest of the year even if it isn't ryder and abbott comes in.

This creates the space and makes the ball hit the deck more which brings our small forwards into it

[nostalgicsaint]

Hence Howard forward

[bigcarl]

The forward line has been our main issue. One thing not having two rucks does is leave us a tall target short down forward.

When Marshall is down there king and members are able to isolate.

Think we have to go two rucks for the rest of the year even if it isn't ryder and abbott comes in.

This creates the space and makes the ball hit the deck more which brings our small forwards into it

Not to mention Ryder’s silver service to our midfield

[Teflon]

The forward line has been our main issue. One thing not having two rucks does is leave us a tall target short down forward.

When Marshall is down there king and members are able to isolate.

Think we have to go two rucks for the rest of the year even if it isn't ryder and abbott comes in.

This creates the space and makes the ball hit the deck more which brings our small forwards into it

Great post
Structural wise we looked stuffed tonight

[skeptic]

I subscribed to the theory that we weren’t really in any shape to play... some say Geelong only had 4 days but the extra day is huge when it’s this few.

Over the course of the day, I began to feel a bit hyped up about a statement making win...
That changed the moment Ryder was out

[CURLY]

Yep King had Taylor holding him plus Henderson Henry peeling off. Stewart did what he wanted because he knew we weren’t kicking it to Geary

[spert]

The forwards need to win their contests, and tonight they were passengers who were out played like most of the team- doesn't matter what the rucks do.

[lefty]

I don't think it's that simple.

Blicavs is a bloody running machine and Stanley goes OK.
Geelong were starting with Stanley and Blicavs was going from the wing into the ruck.

There is 0 chance that Paddy would keep up with Blicavs, that blokes a running machine, which would mean he'd have to take Stanley, fine, but then I doubt Marshall can keep up with Blicavs either.

The problem is letting Geelong have spare defenders. Membrey is also struggling quite badly, and there's nothing anyone can do when you are kicking to a player where you're constantly outnumbered, they just play keeping's off, and it makes the stats look like 'no pressure', but you never have a chance to even apply it.

Game plan needs to be looked at again, we struggled with the same problem last week.

[whiskers3614]

Why does King not lead towards the kicker?
Where is the bloke whose number he inherited to teach him where to run?

[Teflon]

I don't think it's that simple.

Blicavs is a bloody running machine and Stanley goes OK.
Geelong were starting with Stanley and Blicavs was going from the wing into the ruck.

There is 0 chance that Paddy would keep up with Blicavs, that blokes a running machine, which would mean he'd have to take Stanley, fine, but then I doubt Marshall can keep up with Blicavs either.

The problem is letting Geelong have spare defenders. Membrey is also struggling quite badly, and there's nothing anyone can do when you are kicking to a player where you're constantly outnumbered, they just play keeping's off, and it makes the stats look like 'no pressure', but you never have a chance to even apply it.

Game plan needs to be looked at again, we struggled with the same problem last week.

Blicavs can run all he likes from the wing - IF we win the ball out of the middle with a resting Marshall up forward with King and Membrey getting lessor defenders....we bring our smalls into the game
Midfield is not strong enough we need some elite talent in there
But I believe we’ve found another perfect in and under who uses it ok in Bytel ....

[Scollop]

I think I'll jinx the fuckn Cats and back them to win the premiership. I'm sure those cheating maggots have money on them too.

When the umps look after them they look awesome

[ace]

Yep King had Taylor holding him plus Henderson Henry peeling off. Stewart did what he wanted because he knew we weren’t kicking it to Geary

King was being held, interfered with (worse than a Richmond team song), and blocked so he was fourth in line two Geelong players between him and the intercept marker.
Corrupt umpiring.
He could not bring the ball to ground.
He desperately needed some honest umpiring and Ryder or Marshall to back him up in the marking contests.
Maybe he should have try shoving his opponent in the back with both hands but I suppose only Tom Hawkins is allowed to do that.
The umpires were scared that Hawkins would burst out crying if they took the ball away from him.

[ace]

Yep King had Taylor holding him plus Henderson Henry peeling off. Stewart did what he wanted because he knew we weren’t kicking it to Geary

There was no role for Geary.
He was an embarrassment.
He tries harder than anyone but unless there is a small for him to play on he should not play.

[ace]

I did not want Long in the team after his poor effort against Sydney but he proved me wrong with a dogged effort, never stopped trying even when the game was clearly lost.
Phillips earned his call up.
Bytel did well for his first game.
There were no opportunities for Hind or Butler at ground level.
The ball defied gravity.
Hill ran and ran but as the commentators said he needs to be used, he may have covid-19 but he does not have leprosy.

Next time
Howard must play on Pusher Hawkins.
Wilkie take Dangerfield when he is forward
Paton will be needed for Gablett
Rohan needs to be concussed early, we have no-one for him.
Marshall and Ryder must both play, so one of them prevents Geelong blocking King's access to the marking contest.
Membrey must provide a short option taking his opponent away from the goal square marking contest.

[saynta]

The forward line has been our main issue. One thing not having two rucks does is leave us a tall target short down forward.

When Marshall is down there king and members are able to isolate.

Think we have to go two rucks for the rest of the year even if it isn't ryder and abbott comes in.

This creates the space and makes the ball hit the deck more which brings our small forwards into it

I would go along with that. Abbott should have played last night.

[saynta]

Yep King had Taylor holding him plus Henderson Henry peeling off. Stewart did what he wanted because he knew we weren’t kicking it to Geary

King was being held, interfered with (worse than a Richmond team song),

[Sanctorum]

The forward line has been our main issue. One thing not having two rucks does is leave us a tall target short down forward.

When Marshall is down there king and members are able to isolate.

Think we have to go two rucks for the rest of the year even if it isn't ryder and abbott comes in.

This creates the space and makes the ball hit the deck more which brings our small forwards into it

I would go along with that. Abbott should have played last night.

That's right, I couldn't believe it when I heard that Ryder had been replaced late for Phillips - nothing against Ed because he did OK, but surely the selectors should have stuck with the successful 2 ruck formula, and Sean Abbott would have been fine. I guess the selectors will be reflecting on this decision - regrettably none of the reporters asked this question at Ratt's post match press conference.

[perfectionist]

I agree that, against most opposition teams, we need two rucks. Every now and then, I would like to see both in the centre square, with Paddy taking the knock and Rowan causing havoc - he is great at ground level.

Which raises the question. Who is our third ruckman if there should be (no mozz intended) an injury?

[saintsRrising]

The forward line has been our main issue. One thing not having two rucks does is leave us a tall target short down forward.

When Marshall is down there king and members are able to isolate.

From recollection King mainly has been going for his marks in packs. Rarely has it been one on one, or him leading.

My guess is that a deliberate part of the game plan has been to bang it to King knowing that with height that while he probably will not mark it, that the opposition will not either, and so our multiple smalls can then rove the spoils to goal.

Problem is the Cats were awake to this and had the disciplined backs to both mark the ball more and to deny the crumbing.

The Cats also new that we liked to keep our goalsquare free and that this plus the King tactic was allowing us many shots from goal from close range and dead in front. Cats always had someone back.

Result was that we kicked 4.10

In the first quarter we had at least three players who had reasonable shots on goal, who instead of taking them went with our gameplan to centre it with the result being no score.

Having Ryder in the team with Marshall forward would not have altered things.

As it was we sometimes had marking targets of King, Membrey, Battle and Marshall.

You can expect other teams to try similar against us. Not all teams have the quality experienced backline of the Cats though.


PS. By contrast the Cats kept their forward line open with Rohan and Hawkins having plenty of space and one on ones. The Cats for most of night only really had the one tall target in Hawkins. Rohan is 189cm.

[stkfc1]

The forward line has been our main issue. One thing not having two rucks does is leave us a tall target short down forward.

When Marshall is down there king and members are able to isolate.

From recollection King mainly has been going for his marks in packs. Rarely has it been one on one, or him leading.

My guess is that a deliberate part of the game plan has been to bang it to King knowing that with height that while he probably will not mark it, that the opposition will not either, and so our multiple smalls can then rove the spoils to goal.

Problem is the Cats were awake to this and had the disciplined backs to both mark the ball more and to deny the crumbing.

The Cats also new that we liked to keep our goalsquare free and that this plus the King tactic was allowing us many shots from goal from close range and dead in front. Cats always had someone back.

Result was that we kicked 4.10

In the first quarter we had at least three players who had reasonable shots on goal, who instead of taking them went with our gameplan to centre it with the result being no score.

Having Ryder in the team with Marshall forward would not have altered things.

As it was we sometimes had marking targets of King, Membrey, Battle and Marshall.

You can expect other teams to try similar against us. Not all teams have the quality experienced backline of the Cats though.


PS. By contrast the Cats kept their forward line open with Rohan and Hawkins having plenty of space and one on ones. The Cats for most of night only really had the one tall target in Hawkins. Rohan is 189cm.

Good summation. No plan B which is a worry. We have to be better at isolating King or using him as a decoy in these situations. If 2- 3 players are focused on him then that means there a 2 of ours that should be ready to lead into a hole for whoever is kicking it forward.

We need to lower our eyes. We're going back to that predictable 2018 'bomb long' again and it didn't work the first time.
I know it's harder these days but we have very few lead up marks in our F50. Our forward entries are almost always to a pack situation. We need to be better at it.

[The_President]

Just because Ryder came out doesn’t mean we should’ve played Abbott. The two rucks have been working because Ryder is so dominant at the centre bounce (so far)

No guarantee that Abbott provides the same.

Additionally, Marshall looked cooked, more than a couple of times he didn’t even try and jump in the centre bounce, just tried to body straight away.

[nostalgicsaint]

Just because Ryder came out doesn’t mean we should’ve played Abbott. The two rucks have been working because Ryder is so dominant at the centre bounce (so far)

No guarantee that Abbott provides the same.

Additionally, Marshall looked cooked, more than a couple of times he didn’t even try and jump in the centre bounce, just tried to body straight away.

The point is more about two rucks allowing marshall to go forward.

Not only is he a viable target meaning smaller packs for king to contend with but he also does a lot of blocking etc to create space.

Take the point that we bomb to king to bring to ground a lot but sometimes we'd also bomb to marshall meaning the cats for example couldn't just surround the one contest.

Its forward craft to space the defenders and we can't do it with only one genuine tall.

The only alternative is to do like the cats and keep the forward line empty to create the same space.

[on the outer]

Given Abbot was one of the emergencies I couldn’t understand not playing him.

However thats water under the bridge, I think we do need a bigger body in the forward line to attract defenders and contest in packs. If it’s not one of the ruck men Ryder/Marshall/ Abbot, then maybe we need to bring clavarino / Austin in to either play forward or play defence to release Howard or Carlisle who have both played forward with some success.

Ideally I wouldn’t want to mess with a formula that’s been successful but we need a plan b if Marshall or Ryder aren’t available in the future because a single ruckman with an extra running player didn’t work against Geelong.

[Sanctorum]

Just because Ryder came out doesn’t mean we should’ve played Abbott. The two rucks have been working because Ryder is so dominant at the centre bounce (so far)

No guarantee that Abbott provides the same.

Additionally, Marshall looked cooked, more than a couple of times he didn’t even try and jump in the centre bounce, just tried to body straight away.

The issue as I see it Prez is that the 2 rucks formula has been at the core of the very successful game plan for the past month and to abandon this against one of the best teams in the comp just doesn't make sense.

Even if Ryan Abbott is no Paddy Ryder (he is 29 and played only 5 games in the seniors) just having him share the ruck work with Rowan Marshall, allowing the latter to play his great work around the ground including forward, would have had the team playing their familiar style of football - and there's no question that the players were beaten all over the park last Monday night.

This was a mighty stuff-up by the selectors and really disappointing when the team has been going so well.

[Secret Kiel]

Just because Ryder came out doesn’t mean we should’ve played Abbott. The two rucks have been working because Ryder is so dominant at the centre bounce (so far)

No guarantee that Abbott provides the same.

Additionally, Marshall looked cooked, more than a couple of times he didn’t even try and jump in the centre bounce, just tried to body straight away.

The issue as I see it Prez is that the 2 rucks formula has been at the core of the very successful game plan for the past month and to abandon this against one of the best teams in the comp just doesn't make sense.

Even if Ryan Abbott is no Paddy Ryder (he is 29 and played only 5 games in the seniors) just having him share the ruck work with Rowan Marshall, allowing the latter to play his great work around the ground including forward, would have had the team playing their familiar style of football - and there's no question that the players were beaten all over the park last Monday night.

This was a mighty stuff-up by the selectors and really disappointing when the team has been going so well.

It would have been an even mightier stuff up if Abbot was selected. We would have had the AFLs integrity uniti put us on watch for tanking.