Max King

[st.byron]

As I said, untouchable.
All’s great, we didn’t lose today, everything’s going to be great, There are those who can be constantly criticised( see another thread head for three names ) but not Max King.
I’m not a troll. I’ve been a St Kilda member for longer than most of you have been alive. But respectful discussion is impossible on this forum, so , like many others, goodbye for good.

Fair crack mate. He’s a whipper snapper. In the first qtr when the ball was regularly coming into our forward line, he took one good strong grab, kicked a goal and could have had two more. What was apparent at the game was when he didn’t mark it, the ball came to ground for Butler et al to have a go. After qtr time when the delivery and run stopped, no co-incidence he was much less of a threat.
How to sap the confidence out a guy finding his feet in the game? Turn him into a scapegoat and drop him before a fe who’re experienced guys who need a good look in the mirror.

Oh and if no ones already said this - much as I love Geary - when we actually had a chance in the last two mins with the scores level - it was Geary streaming out of defence into the centre square shanking a kick - again - that gave Freo a turnover and easy goal. A clean kick at least to a contest and we were a chance to hold the ball in our forward line or score.

[Apples]

I also don't think King is the problem, he is doing his job, when he doesn't mark it he brings it to ground.
For me I think the midfield is the issue, it lacks a genuine star. Jack Steele has been very good albeit in tagging roles but Seb Ross has been poor and Brad Hill has underwhelmed this year, averaging 52 SC points over 6 games, our worst ranked player against Freo, no tackles no accountability no impact, expect better from arguably our highest paid player.
I think it may be time to see what one of Bytel or Byrnes has to offer, big call but maybe at the expense of Ross.

[SAINT-LEE]

By all means say he missed a few chances and it would be nice for him to mark a couple more but he's 19, played 5 games, doesnt get outmarked, has shown amazing agility and is yet to bulk up.

If you're such a stalwart you'd realise he's learning, the ball hardly got down to him for 3 qtrs and half our team played like they forgot the opposition was an actual AFL team.

I agree theres loads of potential great future for Max. But you are wrong, at present he does get out marked. Check the stats or rewatch the games, he takes ok, good and a few great marks...but is also out marked by defenders or spoiled pretty easily. I rewatched all his games up to last week. He had 11 attempted marks without direct interference ( arms werent chopped but he was under pressure) that he dropped.... add in the marks defended hard that he doesnt take ( another 17) and its a fair bit. But I do 100% give him a break....time to grow, lean the craft and improve. He's awesome in my book.
But as of today...he's no marking machine...well short of Membrey's reliability. So its accurate to say he is currently out marked or spoiled 3.4 times to 1 mark . The afl avg for forwards is 2.2 to 1... so he's going to get there quick and be a real force.

[stkfc1]

Max will be amazing, we all know that. He will learn so much from a day like today. If anyone thought Max would trot around this year sprinkling pixie dust around and we would be a top four side they are mistaken. He could take 80 games before he is dominant. Today’s poor result was because an entire team decided to stop running

Hit. Nail. Head. King is the least of our problems. Yes it would've been better if he kicked those goals and cklunked some of those marks but he's shown enough to see he's going to be a beauty. He will have those 5 and 6 goal games, no doubt about that. It's just going to take time and probably another one or two preseasons before we see his best. When he has an extra 4-5 kg of muscle on him, he's going to be scary.

Our problem at the moment is
A) Accountability and effort
B) Fitness
C) Can't play tempo football

A) That's a mindset and something we need to address very quickly.
B) Maybe it was due to circumstances of travel etc and I can accept that to a point but we also looked out of puff against the Blues after 2nd Q so I think it's a cause for concern. We obviously put alot of emphasis on our footskills and ball movement over the preseason (rightly so) but it may have come at a cost of fitness. Also we obviously can't train like normal so who knows what sort of effect this has had.
C) We only seem to have two speeds. Full on or f@#k all.
We look a million dollars in the first quarters. Speed, hitting targets, kicking goals. Problem is we seem to only sustain it for so long and then we have to be able to play controlled footy but we can't. We look very slow and stagnant and pressure dramatically drops off.

Look we're a young team so there are going to be fluctuations in our form. Also we have new players so the team is still going to need time to gel.
Some of our higher paid players need to have a look at themselves and some of our leaders need to step up.

We're still a good midfielder short and we have one too many small forwards so there are things that need addressing at the selection table.

We'll be right folks. Ratts knows what he's doing.

[saintkev]

When the ball’s not coming forward, perhaps give King a run in the backline during a game. Taking intercept marks will boost his confidence. His athleticism could also be a factor in spoiling or driving the ball forward. Hark back a few years to a bloke with a similar build...Dustin Fletcher.

[spert]

He is potential gin, but if he gets both hands on the ball, then he should be holding those marks, but there's time.

[whiskers3614]

He is potential gin, but if he gets both hands on the ball, then he should be holding those marks, but there's time.

Racist?

[stkfc1]

When the ball’s not coming forward, perhaps give King a run in the backline during a game. Taking intercept marks will boost his confidence. His athleticism could also be a factor in spoiling or driving the ball forward. Hark back a few years to a bloke with a similar build...Dustin Fletcher.

Don't mind it. Play a small forward line to keep pressure on. Didn't hurt Rooey or Kosi's development either.

[The_Dud]

King isn’t the problem, has more than contributed so far this year.

Also we should be getting as many games as possible into him, he’s only going to get better, it’s an investment in the future.

[Joffa Burns]

Some facts
- Barely played in the last two years
- 5 AFL games.
- Knee reco in 2018
- Come back in 2019 derailed with a serious ankle injury
- 19 years old and a twig
- big guys tend to take 4-5 seasons to mature and develop and he is 204cm

Positives
Agile
Nimble
Quick
Good leap
Takes ball at highest point
Smart footballer
'Team oriented
presents and contests most times

Negatives
Dropping some marks that are sitters
A little uncomfortable when marking under pressure
Has missed a couple of set shots he should have converted

Summary
I think he's been outstanding given what he has been through in the last two years and is the most exciting young saints KPP player I have seen in RW&B since Reiwoldt debuted in 2001.
IMO he is ahead of the curve at this point and would have all involved in the club very pleased with his progress.

[Ghost Like]

Some facts
- Barely played in the last two years
- 5 AFL games.
- Knee reco in 2018
- Come back in 2019 derailed with a serious ankle injury
- 19 years old and a twig
- big guys tend to take 4-5 seasons to mature and develop and he is 204cm

Positives
Agile
Nimble
Quick
Good leap
Takes ball at highest point
Smart footballer
'Team oriented
presents and contests most times

Negatives
Dropping some marks that are sitters
A little uncomfortable when marking under pressure
Has missed a couple of set shots he should have converted

Summary
I think he's been outstanding given what he has been through in the last two years and is the most exciting young saints KPP player I have seen in RW&B since Reiwoldt debuted in 2001.
IMO he is ahead of the curve at this point and would have all involved in the club very pleased with his progress.

Well summed up. One that will only improve with more AFL exposure & belief he can trust his body and skills.

You said, "a little uncomfortable when marking under pressure", I wrote in the match thread he appears to drop / duck his head at times when the ball is about to hit his hands. I believe that all through his career he's had the back of his head constantly punched by shorter opponents.

I watch his brother mark and he doesn't have that trait. That shows his brother played in the backline and did not cop that treatment nearly as much.

They will work on that, he'll mark more than he drops. His loose ball handling is brilliant and he moves like a ruck rover when the ball is in dispute. I like Max, I'd love both!

[SAINT-LEE]

He is potential gin, but if he gets both hands on the ball, then he should be holding those marks, but there's time.

Racist?

What race is "gin" referring to? I'm not clued in to these racist things.

[mad saint guy]

The fact that we have a 200cm+ beanpole full forward who just turned 20 and missed the last 2 years of footy and he's actually contributing is pretty incredible. 8 goals from his first six (shortened) games is a very impressive return.

His twin kicked 5 goals in his first 6 games.
Hipwood kicked 7
Joe Daniher kicked 3
Charlie Dixon kicked 5
Ben Brown kicked 8 as a 21 year old
Josh Kennedy kicked 2
.....McCartin kicked 3

Max is flying. Last thing we need to be worried about

[longtimesaint]

What he needs to concentrate on is accuracy as he should have kicked four on Saturday.

[To the top]

Recall Marshall the season before last

Obviously had talent but was not completing marks he was getting his hands to as the physicality of the contest impacted - and maybe also down to the underlying confidence at the level

[spert]

He is potential gin, but if he gets both hands on the ball, then he should be holding those marks, but there's time.

Racist?

Gawd..apologies, my bad. POTENTIAL GUN I meant to say

[SaintDippa]

King's problem at the moment is delivery over his head where he doesn't have the body strength to negate body contact or arm chops. When delivery is out in front then can't be stopped. If mids start only hitting him up on quick leads he'll kick 10. Errrrr 10.8.

[Saintmatt]

King's problem at the moment is delivery over his head where he doesn't have the body strength to negate body contact or arm chops. When delivery is out in front then can't be stopped. If mids start only hitting him up on quick leads he'll kick 10. Errrrr 10.8.

That's exactly right. Have a look at Ben King - he's got all the top end midfield draft talent slotting passes to him - out in front (not over his head); to his advantage (not that of his opponent) and not over his head.

Whilst we've improved - our midfield is still B grade (at best). Yes - Max has dropped a few that he should have gobbled but my God, our midfield would be diabolical to play in front of ... imagine being judged on how well you mark Ross's high floaters, Gresham's mongers etc.

[Joffa Burns]

King's problem at the moment is delivery over his head where he doesn't have the body strength to negate body contact or arm chops. When delivery is out in front then can't be stopped. If mids start only hitting him up on quick leads he'll kick 10. Errrrr 10.8.

That's exactly right. Have a look at Ben King - he's got all the top end midfield draft talent slotting passes to him - out in front (not over his head); to his advantage (not that of his opponent) and not over his head.

Whilst we've improved - our midfield is still B grade (at best). Yes - Max has dropped a few that he should have gobbled but my God, our midfield would be diabolical to play in front of ... imagine being judged on how well you mark Ross's high floaters, Gresham's mongers etc.

The question I ask is whether Max is getting on the lead often enough or is his role to contest with the likes of Membrey getting up the ground?

Max is so quick and jumps so well he'd be unstoppable on the lead.

[To the top]

The reasons I would prefer to see Ryder rucking are because he is a fine ruckman AND he releases Marshall forward.

Marshall up forward takes pressure off King - and, by extension, off Membrey.

That still leaves room for 3 "small" forwards and which is where I would prefer Gresham to play with his evasiveness and the sticks in sight.

Which brings us back to the core problem - our lack of real class in the centre square midfiels, particularly absent the class of Hanneberry.

We can not afford Ross sitting off the back end guarding some one using space to do so.

Steele is adequate at what he does (limited by what he does) but we want players who are being tackled because they have first hands on the ball, not tackiling because they do not have first hands on the ball.

So, to me, the tackling assessment is the wrong way around.

We crave players who are dangerous footballers - not the Geary/s, the Ross's et al

Our bottom half dozen are holding us back and causing the results we see

[Ghost Like]

King's problem at the moment is delivery over his head where he doesn't have the body strength to negate body contact or arm chops. When delivery is out in front then can't be stopped. If mids start only hitting him up on quick leads he'll kick 10. Errrrr 10.8.

That's exactly right. Have a look at Ben King - he's got all the top end midfield draft talent slotting passes to him - out in front (not over his head); to his advantage (not that of his opponent) and not over his head.

Whilst we've improved - our midfield is still B grade (at best). Yes - Max has dropped a few that he should have gobbled but my God, our midfield would be diabolical to play in front of ... imagine being judged on how well you mark Ross's high floaters, Gresham's mongers etc.

I wish the Saint's Social Club was firing and we could have a house band called "Gresh's Mongers" playing. Ahh the good ol days, let's rock Linton again.

[MC Gusto]

Gary Lyon rewrote the 18 draft and has king at one with Ben at 2

That’s based on his performance so far. Which whilst Ben is ahead currently is far superior to bens first 6 matches

Re the OP the kid has played 6 matches. He’s booted 8 goals and assisted quite a few more. He’s coming off a knee reco and any player, let alone a 1st year player, will take a long time to recover and then find match fitness from an injury like that

Max king will be fine.

[saynta]

Gary Lyon rewrote the 18 draft and has king at one with Ben at 2

That’s based on his performance so far. Which whilst Ben is ahead currently is far superior to bens first 6 matches

Re the OP the kid has played 6 matches. He’s booted 8 goals and assisted quite a few more. He’s coming off a knee reco and any player, let alone a 1st year player, will take a long time to recover and then find match fitness from an injury like that

Max king will be fine.

Yep. Spot on. I can't believe so called experts are questioning the club drafting King.

[desertsaint]

Well our last high draft tall forward kicked 3 goals 5 in his first 6 games, and many people thought he was the next big thing. Max is looking a far better prospect. Paddy took far more marks, but King almost double the contested marks, and more inside fifty.
Bit of a small sample of course, but he looks the goods to me.

[skeptic]

Gary Lyon rewrote the 18 draft and has king at one with Ben at 2

That’s based on his performance so far. Which whilst Ben is ahead currently is far superior to bens first 6 matches

Re the OP the kid has played 6 matches. He’s booted 8 goals and assisted quite a few more. He’s coming off a knee reco and any player, let alone a 1st year player, will take a long time to recover and then find match fitness from an injury like that

Max king will be fine.

Yep. Spot on. I can't believe so called experts are questioning the club drafting King.

Best as I can tell it’s one forumite with a post that seemingly came out of nowhere that has subsequently quit the forum

Would say the support/positive reviews for Max is pretty overwhelming