Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment

[Ghost Like]

I’m happy to read everyone’s opinions but please stop with the long quoting s***!!

Spot on Stevie! I wish there could be a block or a two quote per person, per quote, per day rule. It's lazy, after two quotes the rest should be hyperlinked if anyone cares to go back that far.

That is the best plea, comment, observation in this whole thread. Well done!

[BarryGrogan]

I’m happy to read everyone’s opinions but please stop with the long quoting s***!!

Spot on Stevie! I wish there could be a block or a two quote per person, per quote, per day rule. It's lazy, after two quotes the rest should be hyperlinked if anyone cares to go back that far.

That is the best plea, comment, observation in this whole thread. Well done!

It's very easy to just quote the relevant part that you're responding to.

[sunsaint]

I think the Sick Kant is enjoying some well deserved R&R from the forum.

I am confused as to how you can get away with the same inferenced name calling
and not surprised when the going gets tough HarryM gets called to duty
it seems in these ideological/social arguments only one side ever gets dobbed in and banned

[asiu]

personally
i feel the forum back n forth
has easily exceeded any possible expectations of it
given we’ve had whats basically been 2 off seasons
in a row

great effort

not to much cringe factor
most is a good read

dunno how the others feel
but i think everyones been fairly tame

[Ghost Like]

I’m happy to read everyone’s opinions but please stop with the long quoting s***!!

Spot on Stevie! I wish there could be a block or a two quote per person, per quote, per day rule. It's lazy, after two quotes the rest should be hyperlinked if anyone cares to go back that far.

That is the best plea, comment, observation in this whole thread. Well done!

It's very easy to just quote the relevant part that you're responding to.

Very true Baz but as we found out, people get found out.

[Ghost Like]

I think the Sick Kant is enjoying some well deserved R&R from the forum.

I am confused as to how you can get away with the same inferenced name calling
and not surprised when the going gets tough HarryM gets called to duty
it seems in these ideological/social arguments only one side ever gets dobbed in and banned

I'm not, simply because the one that threw the first punch is obviously OK with it. Please don't quite the bible in your response because the person who threw that punch does not believe in it.

[Shaggy]

"Sam Newman, Don Scott and Mike Sheahan have issued a formal apology to St Kilda great Nicky Winmar over comments on their podcast about Winmar's famous stand against racism."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-04/ ... t/12422472

I understand from the Age the podcasts will be deleted.

[saynta]

Running off at the mouth has proven costly for these three clowns.

[Darth Vader]

Interesting.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/hysteri ... e6lp0.html

[saynta]

Interesting.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/hysteri ... e6lp0.html

Wise to offer no comment me thinks. Enough hurtful things said already .

[BarryGrogan]

Interesting.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/hysteri ... e6lp0.html

Interesting?

Why?

"He says Winmar told him shortly afterwards that while he intended to make a statement about race, the words which accompanied it were nothing quite so Martin Luther King-esque as has become accepted"

[Darth Vader]

Interesting.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/hysteri ... e6lp0.html

Wise to offer no comment me thinks. Enough hurtful things said already .

Too true.

[Darth Vader]

Interesting.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/hysteri ... e6lp0.html

Interesting?

Why?

"He says Winmar told him shortly afterwards that while he intended to make a statement about race, the words which accompanied it were nothing quite so Martin Luther King-esque as has become accepted"

Nice selective quoting. Wonder why you didn’t finish the sentence?

[BarryGrogan]

Interesting.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/hysteri ... e6lp0.html

Interesting?

Why?

"He says Winmar told him shortly afterwards that while he intended to make a statement about race, the words which accompanied it were nothing quite so Martin Luther King-esque as has become accepted"

Nice selective quoting. Wonder why you didn’t finish the sentence?

?

Why?

...but about having the guts to get out on the ground and perform in the face of that abuse.

?

So this straight confirms (well, according to a 3rd party) he was responding to racial taunts, and was making a racially motivated statement?

Isn't that exactly why those old guys are now grovelling and apologising anout beimg wrong?

[Darth Vader]

Interesting.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/hysteri ... e6lp0.html

Interesting?

Why?

"He says Winmar told him shortly afterwards that while he intended to make a statement about race, the words which accompanied it were nothing quite so Martin Luther King-esque as has become accepted"

Nice selective quoting. Wonder why you didn’t finish the sentence?

?

Why?

...but about having the guts to get out on the ground and perform in the face of that abuse.

?

So this straight confirms (well, according to a 3rd party) he was responding to racial taunts, and was making a racially motivated statement?

Isn't that exactly why those old guys are now grovelling and apologising anout beimg wrong?

No. No-one ever disputed the racial taunts. The old guys questioned what he said when he lifted his shirt. He says he said “I’m black and I’m proud.” They said he said something about having guts and that because it has since been reported as the black pride comment he has dined off it. Personally I have no idea what he said but found it interesting that an article a fair while ago mentioned the guts story. This is consistent with there having been 2 versions reported at the time of the actual event. Sunday Age went with black pride, Herald-Sun went with guts.

[BarryGrogan]

No. No-one ever disputed the racial taunts. The old guys questioned what he said when he lifted his shirt. He says he said “I’m black and I’m proud.” They said he said something about having guts and that because it has since been reported as the black pride comment he has dined off it. Personally I have no idea what he said but found it interesting that an article a fair while ago mentioned the guts story. This is consistent with there having been 2 versions reported at the time of the actual event. Sunday Age went with black pride, Herald-Sun went with guts.

Oh my god.

No they didn't.

Don Scott literally said it wasn't a racial thing at all, but instead Winmar had been dining off that angle because it suited him.

Basically - Winmar is a liar.

They said he was talking about the gutsy win, and that it had been hijacked as a racial political thing.

That's why they've apologised and why they're coughing up financially rather than get taken to court.

Seriously, what the f*** are you talking about?



And you realise that the Herald-Sun photographer took a photo too, and that he also told his editors to run the racial angle, because he saw the same as what Ludbey saw?

I mean seriously, if you're going to speak s***, just STFU.

Why do people tolerate this absolute deadshittery.

Even the three people that said it have admitted they were wrong. FFS. Then f*** sticks like you keep trying to fight unwinnable fight.

[Darth Vader]

No. No-one ever disputed the racial taunts. The old guys questioned what he said when he lifted his shirt. He says he said “I’m black and I’m proud.” They said he said something about having guts and that because it has since been reported as the black pride comment he has dined off it. Personally I have no idea what he said but found it interesting that an article a fair while ago mentioned the guts story. This is consistent with there having been 2 versions reported at the time of the actual event. Sunday Age went with black pride, Herald-Sun went with guts.

Oh my god.

No they didn't.

Don Scott literally said it wasn't a racial thing at all, but instead Winmar had been dining off that angle because it suited him.

Basically - Winmar is a liar.

They said he was talking about the gutsy win, and that it had been hijacked as a racial political thing.

That's why they've apologised and why they're coughing up financially rather than get taken to court.

Seriously, what the f*** are you talking about?



And you realise that the Herald-Sun photographer took a photo too, and that he also told his editors to run the racial angle, because he saw the same as what Ludbey saw?

I mean seriously, if you're going to speak s***, just STFU.

Why do people tolerate this absolute deadshittery.

Even the three people that said it have admitted they were wrong. FFS. Then f*** sticks like you keep trying to fight unwinnable fight.

Think you need to get back on your meds. Nothing I said is inconsistent with what you’ve said. I actually believe the Winmar/Ludbey version.

[BarryGrogan]

Think you need to get back on your meds. Nothing I said is inconsistent with what you’ve said. I actually believe the Winmar/Ludbey version.

I couldn't give a s*** what you believe. It Doesn't matter. It's totally irrelevant.

It doesn't matter what I believe either.


The whole 'issue' is that Winmar has publicly stated what happened that day, and why.

Fact.

The article you posted supports that. Wayne Ludbey supports it. The Herald-Sun photographer that was there supports it.


Then 2 old stooges publicly state that they were all wrong. Or lying.
And that in fact, the whole thing was actually Winmar telling the crowd that it was a gutsy win. And that the racial angle is and always has been a myth.


Now what I think doesn't matter. What you think matters even less. The fact is though that they called Winmar (and others) a liar. They're rewriting history.


And it's also a fact, that they've admitted they wrong. And that he was in fact making a statement against racism.

Yet still, <edited by mods> like you stoke the fire that maybe they were right.

I mean seriously, the idiocy is just staggering.

<1 day ban for commenting negatively about a poster>

[Darth Vader]

Think you need to get back on your meds. Nothing I said is inconsistent with what you’ve said. I actually believe the Winmar/Ludbey version.

I couldn't give a s*** what you believe. It Doesn't matter. It's totally irrelevant.

It doesn't matter what I believe either.


The whole 'issue' is that Winmar has publicly stated what happened that day, and why.

Fact.

The article you posted supports that. Wayne Ludbey supports it. The Herald-Sun photographer that was there supports it.


Then 2 old stooges publicly state that they were all wrong. Or lying.
And that in fact, the whole thing was actually Winmar telling the crowd that it was a gutsy win. And that the racial angle is and always has been a myth.


Now what I think doesn't matter. What you think matters even less. The fact is though that they called Winmar (and others) a liar. They're rewriting history.


And it's also a fact, that they've admitted they wrong. And that he was in fact making a statement against racism.

Yet still, fuckwits like you stoke the fire that maybe they were right.

I mean seriously, the idiocy is just staggering.

Will stop responding now as you obviously need help and I don’t want to be responsible for you going completely postal.

[Joffa Burns]

An article from 2014 with Comments from Richo who played on Nicky that day.
Is Richo the first Collingwood player to confirm he also heard the comments from the crowd?

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... a228b85818

St Kilda coach Alan Richardson relives the day Nicky Winmar changed football forever
ALAN Richardson could hear the torrent of abuse that flowed over the Victoria Park boundary line on the day that changed football.

Jon Ralph, Herald Sun
May 29, 2014 9:38pm
St Kilda coach Alan Richardson played on Nicky Winmar in the famous game against Collingwood when the latter lifted his jumper at Victoria Park.
St Kilda coach Alan Richardson played on Nicky Winmar in the famous game against Collingwood when the latter lifted his jumper at Victoria Park.
MORE IN SPORT

ALAN Richardson could hear the torrent of abuse that flowed over the Victoria Park boundary line on the day that changed football.

He didn’t like it, but this was an era when eliminating crowd-based racism was still far down the list of AFL priorities.

He knew his indigenous opponent heard it too, from the furious glances and muttering under his breath.

On Friday night, Richardson will coach St Kilda in its Nicky Winmar tribute game against Collingwood, celebrating the St Kilda great’s legacy as part of Indigenous Round.

Today for the first time in two decades he has revealed his role in that game, as the Collingwood opponent who played on Winmar before his famous salute.

“After quarter time I was playing on Nicky, and it was pretty clear he was getting frustrated and disappointed with what was coming over the fence,’’ Richardson told the Herald Sun on Thursday.

Nicky Winmar lifts his jumper and points to the colour of his skin to the Collingwood supporters at Victoria Park. He had been racially abused by the Collingwood crowd for being an aboriginal. Picture: John Feder
“I knew he was getting frustrated because while he wasn’t yelling back at the crowd, he was muttering in disbelief to himself.

“Historically there have been some fans at all footy clubs who say things they would later regret and that was the case on the day.”

Gilbert McAdam was best-afield with five goals and Winmar was not far behind, with the pair spurred by McAdam’s pre-game demand: “Brother, we don’t have to put up with this (abuse). Today we will kill them.’’

“It clearly inspired both he and Gilbert (McAdam) into action because they were terrific performers on the day,’’ Richardson said.

“It had an impact and disappointed them, hence Nicky’s display late in the game with the jumper and pointing to the colour of the skin.”

Winmar’s salute was all but ignored on the day, but would grow in resonance until the formulation of the 1995 racial vilification policy.

Richardson was not immediately aware of the salute but will never forget that day.

Even if he tried he still has an official reminder of a below-par performance that in truth added to the mystique of the afternoon.

“I have still got the game report from Leigh Matthews at home that basically said, “We were disappointed in your performance”,’’ says Richardson.

“In terms of my role in trying to quell Nicky I clearly failed to do it, but he was a pretty special player and Gilbert was the same. When they were on, they were incredibly hard to stop because of how dynamic they were.

“With that extra motivation, they wanted to prove how good they were as footballers and people.”

St Kilda has just one indigenous footballer — Terry Milera — but an enormous heritage that includes including Winmar, McAdam, Jim Krakouer, Dale Kickett, Phil Narkle and Bob Jones.

Winmar will not be at the game tonight, with the AFL and St Kilda perhaps a little disappointed but not surprised.

He has battled health issues after a heart attack, and is always reluctant to head west from Esperance, only withdrawing from this latest trip on Wednesday.

He told the Herald Sun last year he was thrilled that the game would be played in his honour.

“It’s great we can play this game against the Magpies. I have been over (to the indigenous round) a few times and have been to the Richmond-Essendon game for Michael Long, and I am really looking forward to this game with Collingwood. It will be great to get there.”

From his nearly 30 years in football Richardson has been blessed by his interaction with many of the indigenous stars of the game, although his introduction to their many talents was sudden.

“I started my career at North Melbourne and I was partnered by Jimmy Krakouer for the whole pre-season and he was just a fantastic player. He did have an aggressive streak in him, and it was an interesting period in a young person’s footy life, but there is no doubt some of the best players ever to play at indigenous players.

“It’s a great opportunity for us as a club to play this game, obviously with Nicky’s involvement and the significance of that day at Victoria Park. It has been felt by the whole industry in many ways, so for us and Terry Milera to have the chance to play is really important.”

[BarryGrogan]

“After quarter time I was playing on Nicky, and it was pretty clear he was getting frustrated and disappointed with what was coming over the fence,’’ Richardson told the Herald Sun on Thursday.

Oh FFS.

[SaintPav]

Oh, just STFU...

[CQ SAINT]

I was 11 the first time I remember being called a 'dirty coon' on a football field. The voice came from one of the cars parked on the forward pocket about 30m from me. I had just tackled a kid and was lining up for goal. I glanced at the guy, who looked about 30ish, and saw the look of hate on his face. It wasn't something I was accustomed to, as my dad was a 6'8 250lb white man and my mother a very well educated, intelligent, beautiful and well respected Maori woman, she was adored for her character in the small community I grew up in and she tried her best to shelter us from the pockets of society that didn't respond that way. She hated football.
We had a big family and my older brothers and dad had earnt respect the hard way and as the youngest my path was different. It was the Multicultural 80's.
Unfortunately it was an away game in Noble Park and the place was riddled with ferals. My town was riddled with ferals too but I was their coon and that was ok.
I turned and kicked my 4th goal and suitably looked over at the guy and smiled. He thought I was taunting him, and screamed at me some more. I wasn't taunting him. I could see what he couldn't. It was my dad approaching his car very calmly from behind the coaches box which made me smile.
It got worse from there but I never minded. I was a big kid and on field nasty words were matched with hard hits, goals and the occasional dust up. I always pleaded guilty at the tribunal and apologised for losing my temper. I'm proud of myself, my heritage and my ancestry. I come from a long line of chiefs who formed part of the only indigenous collective not to be defeated and overtaken by the might of the British Empire. What transpired in my case was a treaty and if I had to drop the standards set by my ancestors to be a part of that world then, so be it.
I've never felt oppressed. I'm aware of segments of my ancestry that have been oppressed but I'm glad they didn't dwell on it and leased their land to good white folk in the mid 1800's only to take it back in the mid 1900's and reap huge rewards. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words could never harm me.
I feel for those who were once cloaked in Emu feather and fine Possum skins, living in harmony with nature and determining the future of their reign for themselves. It's sad that they were cruelled by fate and that they became cloaked in oppression.
Say what you like about Winmar but he is a legend, and regardless of how anyone will cheapen that, the fairer sections of humanity will praise his memory until there is very little left worth praising.

[asiu]

nice read

gaz bows his head
in your families general direction

good work that mob

*****

the ... dropping standards observation
was particularly striking

i listen to the indigenous mobs
from across the planet
(with a healers ear)

and it’s hard work
even given the Continuing Betrayal of Our First Peoples

to find those
who have allowed their righteous anger
to turn into hatred

for : thats the line.

... below that , the pond slime reign.

[tomnz]

I'm proud of myself, my heritage and my ancestry. I come from a long line of chiefs who formed part of the only indigenous collective not to be defeated and overtaken by the might of the British Empire. What transpired in my case was a treaty and if I had to drop the standards set by my ancestors to be a part of that world then, so be it.
I've never felt oppressed. I'm aware of segments of my ancestry that have been oppressed but I'm glad they didn't dwell on it and leased their land to good white folk in the mid 1800's only to take it back in the mid 1900's and reap huge rewards. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words could never harm me.
I feel for those who were once cloaked in Emu feather and fine Possum skins, living in harmony with nature and determining the future of their reign for themselves. It's sad that they were cruelled by fate and that they became cloaked in oppression.
Say what you like about Winmar but he is a legend, and regardless of how anyone will cheapen that, the fairer sections of humanity will praise his memory until there is very little left worth praising.

Well said.
From Japanese Kiwi (no Maori in me) used to live in Taupo, Tuwharetoa land.