Side v Carlton

[kosifantutti]

Report on afl.com.au that Geary not likely to be fit for the game against Carlton, no news yet on Jones' hamstring - if he can't play bring in Luke Dunstan, or maybe let Jack Bytel debut, have to start him sometime soon.

The only possible "in" is Paddy Ryder but you'd like to think that the selectors will stick with the line-up against Richmond which worked quite well. Expect Carlisle to man-up on the in-form Levi Casboult, and Howard on Mitch McGovern who is starting to play well.

No Dunstan it seems:

[samuraisaint]

Dan likes playing against the Blues it seems

[SAINT-LEE]

I don’t think you can keep the captain out. Geary deserves his spot in the team and I think we need his experience.

On balance, I think a forward pocket needs to go so for me it’s Lonie vs Kent for Geary is the one change I’d make

Kent or Lonie? Why not Gresham? He's had 1 decent game out of 4. Statistics show Gresham besting Lonie....just. But Lonie is scoring more.
Gresham vs Kent shows Kent beating Gresham in many areas - goals, marks, inside 50'S, tackles, etc.

Gresham is more efficient than both of them but he just seems flat. Not a 1 game situation....Gresham will be close to 100 games at season end and he's still playing B- / C+ ball.

Maybe Gresh needs a refresh or some damn passion out there, fight a bit, scrap for it ....Lonie will never be better but he's more feral and scores.

With Jones out who stays?

I respectfully disagree.

Gresham didn’t have a great game yesterday but he’s been north of 20 possessions for the last 2 weeks and IMO his contribution has been a lot better than what he’s been credited with.
I think he’s being marked very harshly by the brush of what people want his performance to be versus what it actually is. My view is that whilst not as tidy... he’s working hard, getting a bit of it and contributing.

On Lonie,
Rd1 - 6 possessions for 0.1
Rd2 - 15 possessions for 1.1
Rd3 - 9 possessions for 0.1
Rd4 - 16 possessions for 2.0

On Kent
Rd1- 14 possessions for 0.2
Rd4 - 10 possessions for 2.0

Now it’s harder to judge Kent on just 2 games but I think those numbers, in my opinion, demonstrate how much less we’re inclined to scrutinise players when we’re winning.
Both have been very mediocre in the games that we’ve lost and simply aren’t contributing enough when/if the teams not dominating. Further to that, we’ve seen from both that they can player better in terms of tackles, pressure and just plain getting hands on the ball

The challenge with both at the moment... the difference in measuring their contributions is heavily reliant on whether or not they hit the scoreboard and make the most of their limited opportunities and that’s really a concern.
Kent’s two games are a reflection of that. He had actually had less ball yesterday then rd1 but made the most of the opportunities hence his game has a positive rub to it.

The reality IMO, harsh as this might be is that whilst his last goal was a ripper, he was extremely lucky to get the first one which was gifted to him after King dropped what he really should have taken.

If we were 0-4... both guys would be under a lot more pressure

Compare there output to a guy like Butler whose gotten 15-16 possessions and 2-3 goals in each of the last 3 games and note the difference. Goals aside , his impact is very noticeable. The guy has presence and seems to make this happen IMO due to his work rate and getting to contests.


In terms of team balance, IMO there is enough room for 2 of Butler, Lonie and Kent... obviously Butler is a lock. For me it’s a flip between the other 2

I guess Gresham is under more scrutiny because he was a 1st round pick with almost 90 games under his belt and the defense that people have is, " hey he's averaging 20 disposals"....yet the same people smash Ross who has higher disposals and significantly better efficiency. If stats are the support for him playing, its not good - avg disposals 17, for 2020.
Almost every stat has dipped by 20-40% lower than 2019.
Either he's being more heavily tagged after teams realise he's a B grade player with 17 disposals and 59% efficiency (Im not using sarcasm, more pure asshole than anything) or his confidence, passion, work rate, or something is affecting him. He's had 85+ games of which 15 were awesome and 23 were average and the rest very average. What he "could be" better hurry up...
If we are doing the Cho in 2020...giving him 3-5 more seasons to prove himself, what makes him more worthy than anyone else waiting?

I like him. I want him to be great...hell, to be the greatest ever but if 85 games hasn't revealed his attitude and game what are you watching? I'd take Lonie 3.3 goals or Kent's 2.2 over Gresham 0.3.

Out: Gresham, Kent
In: Dunstan, Hind

It's hard to really compare him because we dont have other mids at 85-90 games. But if we are dropping Lonie for poor play Gresh has to be considered....He's piss poor compared to last year.

Try comparing him at the same age with Dunstan - similar build, both pick #18. Dunstan absolutely smashes Gresh at the same age....so if Gresh has NEVER statisticallly been as good as Dunstan EVER in his career so far...why are we sh1ting on Dunstan but patting Gresham on the poo poo?

I wonder if game time being down 20% has anything to do with his disposals being down 20% ....?

Hasnt caused others avgs to dip.

I think its a combo of his confidence, new players, new coach

Gresh was injured round 1 and only played 40% TOG. He was injured second half last week. In the 2 full games he has played he has had 22 and 25 disposals which is ok given the 20% less game time each quarter. Only Zac Jones has got more than 25 disposals this year for the Saints.

Fair point on TOG

[Big John]

Might benefit from fresh legs on a short turnaround.

In: Byrnes, Bytel, Ryder
Out: Marsh, Jones, Kent

[mightysainters]

Bytel definitely in from my insider will debut. Exciting times

[freely]

Like many others, I'm keen to get a look at Bytel.

[CQ SAINT]

Defensive forward on Docherty would be a dream start. Ratten seems big on guys playing multiple roles and being flexible. I'd love to see him get a big assignment and stake a claim.

[bigred]

Bytel time.

[Saintmatt]

Defensive forward on Docherty would be a dream start. Ratten seems big on guys playing multiple roles and being flexible. I'd love to see him get a big assignment and stake a claim.

It's a nice idea but that is definitely not a task for a first gamer. Docherty is a dead set gun. There's pretty much consensus that he's an AA HBF at present (along with J Howe) so, he needs an experienced hard defender on him. Bytel is a hunting bigger bodied mid.

For the first time in a very long time - I'm starting to believe in our abilities and what we're able to do to an opposition given the chance. However, we must do two things tomorrow night: -

1. Hard tag on Cripps. A proper one. If we do that, we stifle all of their drive out of the middle. It's Cripps that brings Murphy and Walsh into the game. Stop Cripps (properly) and they are going to struggle to get it going their way from stoppages; and
2. Lock down on Docherty. Do not not let him fly for the ball and do not let him zone off as the outlet player. He reads the flight of the ball and general play beautifully. He needs to be made accountable. The idiot Injectors let him run free in the last quarter and he did as he pleased setting up attack after attack

Achieve that, and we're a long way home.

[Beno88]

Geary in, Jones out. That's my guess.

[saintsRrising]

If Geary in, then most likely he goes to Docherty.

Paton on Eddy.

Ross on Cripps

Carlisle on Casboult


I see Doherty as a bigger threat than Betts.

If we keep Cripps and Doherty quiet then we win. We may still win with them having good games, but we definitely win if we keep them to so so games.

[skeptic]

All the intrigue seems to be about Geary

[Sanctorum]

All the intrigue seems to be about Geary

Not a Geary fan, far from it, but I believe he will play (Ratten has said as much) and hope he does a good job on Docherty, as he did on Johanissen a few weeks ago. Not sure who comes out for Geary, maybe Kent? The current defence has stood up very well and in my view needs to remain unchanged to consolidate their good form.

I'm on the Bytel bandwagon if Jones doesn't play!

[spert]

Jones aside, who else would be dropped from last week's winning team? probably nobody- they all played their part.

[tony74]

Tow ball definitely not playing

[Life Long Saint]

If Geary in, then most likely he goes to Docherty.

Paton on Eddy.

Ross on Cripps

Carlisle on Casboult


I see Doherty as a bigger threat than Betts.

If we keep Cripps and Doherty quiet then we win. We may still win with them having good games, but we definitely win if we keep them to so so games.

Steele must play on Cripps and Ross can go to Murphy.

[sunsaint]

Tow ball definitely not playing

yeah ok - towball
Think many are interested in if Bytel will debut
tell Ratts to give Gresham a rest

I want to see him grab the game and become our high profile Rising Star for 2020

[SaintPav]

Dan likes playing against the Blues it seems

Reckon Tiger fans now think their club erred in trading Butler and it should have been Costanza instead.

[Saintmatt]

Dan likes playing against the Blues it seems

Reckon Tiger fans now think their club erred in trading Butler and it should have been Costanza instead.

Richmond fans on the whole view Castagna much in the same way that Weller was viewed by Saints fans in his last 2 years under Richo ... teacher's pet and untouchable. All the Tigers' fans I know Can't believe that it was Butler that got forced out.

[saintsRrising]

TV Evening News Ch9 indicating that Geary will be play against the Blues.

No idea how accurate they will be, or who their source is.

[WellardSaint]

Gears in, just announced.
Zac Jones out.

Emerg: Sinclair, Hind, Ryder, Byrnes

Source: Saints App

[StPeter]

Tow ball definitely not playing

Who is Tow ball?

[Yorkeys]

Be interesting to see how Captain Courageous is used. Match fitness an issue? Mid field maybe weakened depending on who replaces Zac positionally. Hunter maybe. I imagine Carlton are worried how S. Docherty will go against our gun half forwards. Coach vs Coach will be tantalising as well.

[saynta]

Tow ball definitely not playing

Who is Tow ball?

Who has a head that looks like a tow ball?

[skeptic]

Be interesting to see how Captain Courageous is used. Match fitness an issue? Mid field maybe weakened depending on who replaces Zac positionally. Hunter maybe. I imagine Carlton are worried how S. Docherty will go against our gun half forwards. Coach vs Coach will be tantalising as well.

I doubt fitness will be an issue. He could not train for 6 months and still be top 10 in the AFL.

Would like to see him go defensive forward again. Feel like he’s very suited to i. Negate and keep the ball in, fierce tackling, can kick a goal too