Side v Carlton

[Devilhead]

Jones hamscans were due today - if no damage and tightness only you would think he should be ok for the Bluescum - unless they go super precautionary

[skeptic]

He got a knock on the head v Collingwood and seemed out of sorts that match and obviously the tightness on Saturday.

If there’s even the slightest doubt... I’d be inclined to give him the weekend off and straight back in next week.

Too important a player to take chances and he plays that rough style

[PADDLEPOP1001]

In regards to Gears,Ratts did say in a pre season address to the players (he singled out Coffield)
that he doesn’t want Coffield to just watch & learn from blokes like Gears he said he wanted him to take his place so ALL players would understand where Ratts stands with all of them!

[skeptic]

Big test for Ratts this week.

[magnifisaint]

Big test for Ratts this week.

bigger than Richmond?

[Devilhead]

Report on HeraldSun saying Jones clear of damage

Mentioned on Saints BF forum - sorry no link but excerpt below

"St Kilda recruit Zak Jones looks set to avoid a stint on the sidelines after scans revealed no major damage to his hamstring.
Jones came from the field with hamstring tightness during the Saints’ 26-point win over reigning premiers Richmond at Marvel Stadium on Saturday.

The Saints said Jones would likely face a fitness test ahead of Saturday’s clash against Carlton at the MCG."

[To the top]

My understanding is that our young brigade were given the challenge to push aside the established players and frame the side of the future - not just Coffield

[ace]

If Geary fit then comes straight in.

Who to drop? Hard.

It would be hard to drop Hard. He hardly made a mistake.

He hardly went near the ball.

[terry smith rules]

If Geary fit then comes straight in.

Who to drop? Hard.

It would be hard to drop Hard. He hardly made a mistake.

He hardly went near the ball.

Apparently he said he wasn’t in the mood

Then again it is difficult to play that Hard role for the entire game

He usually only plays well in short spurts

[ace]

Jones outinjuredreplaced by either Gears or Dunny.

So does that mean Jones definitely out or those players are in line if he misses?

Sounds like he might be out to me which is a shame.

If you recorded the game - third quarter 8:55 remaining.
Jones stops chasing the play, puts his hand up and walks off.

If he had tightness he would have been on the bench and said I think I am at risk.
No, he actually tore something even a minor tear.
It does not matter the size of the tear it still takes roughly the same time to repair.
Jones must miss the Carlton and Geelong games.

[SaintPav]

Jones outinjuredreplaced by either Gears or Dunny.

So does that mean Jones definitely out or those players are in line if he misses?

Sounds like he might be out to me which is a shame.

If you recorded the game - third quarter 8:55 remaining.
Jones stops chasing the play, puts his hand up and walks off.

If he had tightness he would have been on the bench and said I think I am at risk.
No, he actually tore something even a minor tear.
It does not matter the size of the tear it still takes roughly the same time to repair.
Jones must miss the Carlton and Geelong games.

Did he come back on after that or was he out of the game?

[saynta]

From today's herald sun.com.au

St Kilda recruit Zak Jones looks set to avoid a stint on the sidelines after scans revealed no major damage to his hamstring.

Jones came from the field with hamstring tightness during the Saints’ 26-point win over reigning premiers Richmond at Marvel Stadium on Saturday.

The Saints said Jones would likely face a fitness test ahead of Saturday’s clash against Carlton at the MCG.

Saints coach Brett Ratten had been optimistic after the game it was not a serious injury after the team took a cautious approach with his hamstring tightness.

“It’s one of those ones where we thought, ‘if we take the risk and he does do it, he’ll be out for two or three weeks’,” Ratten said.

“If it’s just a bit of tightness and we get it scanned, he could be available for next week.”

St Kilda said there was no concern over fellow recruit Bradley Hill after a second-quarter scare when he rolled an ankle.

[asiu]

I thought Battle was good enough to keep his spot. Very handy player and has a bit of dog in him, which we need

ten thumbs up to that
‘n the 11th for #21

a little hunt the opposition is handy

[The_Dud]

I doubt Jones will be getting up for Thursday now, probably best he misses a week anyway to be safe

[Secret Kiel]

I doubt Jones will be getting up for Thursday now, probably best he misses a week anyway to be safe

On this rare occasion you might of guessed right, Ratts said after his presser the sports science guys are working overtime to keep players from serious soft tissue injuries due to a limited pre season and having now played 3 weeks at completion intensity. The danger period for soft tissue.

[shrodes]

I doubt Jones will be getting up for Thursday now, probably best he misses a week anyway to be safe

I would be surprised if he plays Thursday too, especially with high risk of recurrence with hammies

[Crossy66]

I doubt Jones will be getting up for Thursday now, probably best he misses a week anyway to be safe

On this rare occasion you might of guessed right, Ratts said after his presser the sports science guys are working overtime to keep players from serious soft tissue injuries due to a limited pre season and having now played 3 weeks at completion intensity. The danger period for soft tissue.

Its about the right time to rotate a few mids to keep them cherry ripe. If Jones , Gresh and Gears were to miss and be fresh for Geelong, it might not be a bad thing.
Need a plan for Betts and Doc, maybe Jweb? I think we have the tall guys to tackle Casboult. Hope Harry McKay misses, he was really good at our last meeting.

[Peanut Farm]

Might be 1 change for this week, great team performance. King needs to make his mark on Thursday night & start raking those pack marks he's been missing.

[Secret Kiel]

I doubt Jones will be getting up for Thursday now, probably best he misses a week anyway to be safe

On this rare occasion you might of guessed right, Ratts said after his presser the sports science guys are working overtime to keep players from serious soft tissue injuries due to a limited pre season and having now played 3 weeks at completion intensity. The danger period for soft tissue.

Its about the right time to rotate a few mids to keep them cherry ripe. If Jones , Gresh and Gears were to miss and be fresh for Geelong, it might not be a bad thing.
Need a plan for Betts and Doc, maybe Jweb? I think we have the tall guys to tackle Casboult. Hope Harry McKay misses, he was really good at our last meeting.

Players are being rested on the field. Teams don't have the luxury of picking from a feeder comp. Clubs are doing thier pre season fitness and conditioning on the field during competition for 4 points and hoping nothing goes wrong. What choice do they have.

[The_Dud]

I doubt Jones will be getting up for Thursday now, probably best he misses a week anyway to be safe

On this rare occasion you might of guessed right, Ratts said after his presser the sports science guys are working overtime to keep players from serious soft tissue injuries due to a limited pre season and having now played 3 weeks at completion intensity. The danger period for soft tissue.

Its about the right time to rotate a few mids to keep them cherry ripe. If Jones , Gresh and Gears were to miss and be fresh for Geelong, it might not be a bad thing.
Need a plan for Betts and Doc, maybe Jweb? I think we have the tall guys to tackle Casboult. Hope Harry McKay misses, he was really good at our last meeting.

Now I'm not the biggest Geary fan, but I think if he comes back in (I think he was close last week?) and just sits on Betts the whole game that could work.

[Crossy66]

I doubt Jones will be getting up for Thursday now, probably best he misses a week anyway to be safe

On this rare occasion you might of guessed right, Ratts said after his presser the sports science guys are working overtime to keep players from serious soft tissue injuries due to a limited pre season and having now played 3 weeks at completion intensity. The danger period for soft tissue.

Its about the right time to rotate a few mids to keep them cherry ripe. If Jones , Gresh and Gears were to miss and be fresh for Geelong, it might not be a bad thing.
Need a plan for Betts and Doc, maybe Jweb? I think we have the tall guys to tackle Casboult. Hope Harry McKay misses, he was really good at our last meeting.

Players are being rested on the field. Teams don't have the luxury of picking from a feeder comp. Clubs are doing thier pre season fitness and conditioning on the field during competition for 4 points and hoping nothing goes wrong. What choice do they have.

yep, its a season like no other. Soft tissue injuries are a risk with short turn arounds, limited preparation. Need to manage the minutes of the runners in particular to avoid injury

[Crossy66]

I doubt Jones will be getting up for Thursday now, probably best he misses a week anyway to be safe

On this rare occasion you might of guessed right, Ratts said after his presser the sports science guys are working overtime to keep players from serious soft tissue injuries due to a limited pre season and having now played 3 weeks at completion intensity. The danger period for soft tissue.

Its about the right time to rotate a few mids to keep them cherry ripe. If Jones , Gresh and Gears were to miss and be fresh for Geelong, it might not be a bad thing.
Need a plan for Betts and Doc, maybe Jweb? I think we have the tall guys to tackle Casboult. Hope Harry McKay misses, he was really good at our last meeting.

Now I'm not the biggest Geary fan, but I think if he comes back in (I think he was close last week?) and just sits on Betts the whole game that could work.

Geary may not make the short turnaround unfortunately

[Moods]

I don’t think you can keep the captain out. Geary deserves his spot in the team and I think we need his experience.

On balance, I think a forward pocket needs to go so for me it’s Lonie vs Kent for Geary is the one change I’d make

Kent or Lonie? Why not Gresham? He's had 1 decent game out of 4. Statistics show Gresham besting Lonie....just. But Lonie is scoring more.
Gresham vs Kent shows Kent beating Gresham in many areas - goals, marks, inside 50'S, tackles, etc.

Gresham is more efficient than both of them but he just seems flat. Not a 1 game situation....Gresham will be close to 100 games at season end and he's still playing B- / C+ ball.

Maybe Gresh needs a refresh or some damn passion out there, fight a bit, scrap for it ....Lonie will never be better but he's more feral and scores.

With Jones out who stays?

I respectfully disagree.

Gresham didn’t have a great game yesterday but he’s been north of 20 possessions for the last 2 weeks and IMO his contribution has been a lot better than what he’s been credited with.
I think he’s being marked very harshly by the brush of what people want his performance to be versus what it actually is. My view is that whilst not as tidy... he’s working hard, getting a bit of it and contributing.

On Lonie,
Rd1 - 6 possessions for 0.1
Rd2 - 15 possessions for 1.1
Rd3 - 9 possessions for 0.1
Rd4 - 16 possessions for 2.0

On Kent
Rd1- 14 possessions for 0.2
Rd4 - 10 possessions for 2.0

Now it’s harder to judge Kent on just 2 games but I think those numbers, in my opinion, demonstrate how much less we’re inclined to scrutinise players when we’re winning.
Both have been very mediocre in the games that we’ve lost and simply aren’t contributing enough when/if the teams not dominating. Further to that, we’ve seen from both that they can player better in terms of tackles, pressure and just plain getting hands on the ball

The challenge with both at the moment... the difference in measuring their contributions is heavily reliant on whether or not they hit the scoreboard and make the most of their limited opportunities and that’s really a concern.
Kent’s two games are a reflection of that. He had actually had less ball yesterday then rd1 but made the most of the opportunities hence his game has a positive rub to it.

The reality IMO, harsh as this might be is that whilst his last goal was a ripper, he was extremely lucky to get the first one which was gifted to him after King dropped what he really should have taken.

If we were 0-4... both guys would be under a lot more pressure

Compare there output to a guy like Butler whose gotten 15-16 possessions and 2-3 goals in each of the last 3 games and note the difference. Goals aside , his impact is very noticeable. The guy has presence and seems to make this happen IMO due to his work rate and getting to contests.


In terms of team balance, IMO there is enough room for 2 of Butler, Lonie and Kent... obviously Butler is a lock. For me it’s a flip between the other 2

I guess Gresham is under more scrutiny because he was a 1st round pick with almost 90 games under his belt and the defense that people have is, " hey he's averaging 20 disposals"....yet the same people smash Ross who has higher disposals and significantly better efficiency. If stats are the support for him playing, its not good - avg disposals 17, for 2020.
Almost every stat has dipped by 20-40% lower than 2019.
Either he's being more heavily tagged after teams realise he's a B grade player with 17 disposals and 59% efficiency (Im not using sarcasm, more pure asshole than anything) or his confidence, passion, work rate, or something is affecting him. He's had 85+ games of which 15 were awesome and 23 were average and the rest very average. What he "could be" better hurry up...
If we are doing the Cho in 2020...giving him 3-5 more seasons to prove himself, what makes him more worthy than anyone else waiting?

I like him. I want him to be great...hell, to be the greatest ever but if 85 games hasn't revealed his attitude and game what are you watching? I'd take Lonie 3.3 goals or Kent's 2.2 over Gresham 0.3.

Out: Gresham, Kent
In: Dunstan, Hind

It's hard to really compare him because we dont have other mids at 85-90 games. But if we are dropping Lonie for poor play Gresh has to be considered....He's piss poor compared to last year.

Try comparing him at the same age with Dunstan - similar build, both pick #18. Dunstan absolutely smashes Gresh at the same age....so if Gresh has NEVER statisticallly been as good as Dunstan EVER in his career so far...why are we sh1ting on Dunstan but patting Gresham on the poo poo?

Perfectly put Saint Lee

[Selhurst Saint]

It appears that Dunstan did a pec muscle in the scratch match on the weekend and that Gears will miss one more.

Bytel had a good game by all accounts so perhaps Jones for Bytel.

[Darth Vader]

I don’t think you can keep the captain out. Geary deserves his spot in the team and I think we need his experience.

On balance, I think a forward pocket needs to go so for me it’s Lonie vs Kent for Geary is the one change I’d make

Kent or Lonie? Why not Gresham? He's had 1 decent game out of 4. Statistics show Gresham besting Lonie....just. But Lonie is scoring more.
Gresham vs Kent shows Kent beating Gresham in many areas - goals, marks, inside 50'S, tackles, etc.

Gresham is more efficient than both of them but he just seems flat. Not a 1 game situation....Gresham will be close to 100 games at season end and he's still playing B- / C+ ball.

Maybe Gresh needs a refresh or some damn passion out there, fight a bit, scrap for it ....Lonie will never be better but he's more feral and scores.

With Jones out who stays?

I respectfully disagree.

Gresham didn’t have a great game yesterday but he’s been north of 20 possessions for the last 2 weeks and IMO his contribution has been a lot better than what he’s been credited with.
I think he’s being marked very harshly by the brush of what people want his performance to be versus what it actually is. My view is that whilst not as tidy... he’s working hard, getting a bit of it and contributing.

On Lonie,
Rd1 - 6 possessions for 0.1
Rd2 - 15 possessions for 1.1
Rd3 - 9 possessions for 0.1
Rd4 - 16 possessions for 2.0

On Kent
Rd1- 14 possessions for 0.2
Rd4 - 10 possessions for 2.0

Now it’s harder to judge Kent on just 2 games but I think those numbers, in my opinion, demonstrate how much less we’re inclined to scrutinise players when we’re winning.
Both have been very mediocre in the games that we’ve lost and simply aren’t contributing enough when/if the teams not dominating. Further to that, we’ve seen from both that they can player better in terms of tackles, pressure and just plain getting hands on the ball

The challenge with both at the moment... the difference in measuring their contributions is heavily reliant on whether or not they hit the scoreboard and make the most of their limited opportunities and that’s really a concern.
Kent’s two games are a reflection of that. He had actually had less ball yesterday then rd1 but made the most of the opportunities hence his game has a positive rub to it.

The reality IMO, harsh as this might be is that whilst his last goal was a ripper, he was extremely lucky to get the first one which was gifted to him after King dropped what he really should have taken.

If we were 0-4... both guys would be under a lot more pressure

Compare there output to a guy like Butler whose gotten 15-16 possessions and 2-3 goals in each of the last 3 games and note the difference. Goals aside , his impact is very noticeable. The guy has presence and seems to make this happen IMO due to his work rate and getting to contests.


In terms of team balance, IMO there is enough room for 2 of Butler, Lonie and Kent... obviously Butler is a lock. For me it’s a flip between the other 2

I guess Gresham is under more scrutiny because he was a 1st round pick with almost 90 games under his belt and the defense that people have is, " hey he's averaging 20 disposals"....yet the same people smash Ross who has higher disposals and significantly better efficiency. If stats are the support for him playing, its not good - avg disposals 17, for 2020.
Almost every stat has dipped by 20-40% lower than 2019.
Either he's being more heavily tagged after teams realise he's a B grade player with 17 disposals and 59% efficiency (Im not using sarcasm, more pure asshole than anything) or his confidence, passion, work rate, or something is affecting him. He's had 85+ games of which 15 were awesome and 23 were average and the rest very average. What he "could be" better hurry up...
If we are doing the Cho in 2020...giving him 3-5 more seasons to prove himself, what makes him more worthy than anyone else waiting?

I like him. I want him to be great...hell, to be the greatest ever but if 85 games hasn't revealed his attitude and game what are you watching? I'd take Lonie 3.3 goals or Kent's 2.2 over Gresham 0.3.

Out: Gresham, Kent
In: Dunstan, Hind

It's hard to really compare him because we dont have other mids at 85-90 games. But if we are dropping Lonie for poor play Gresh has to be considered....He's piss poor compared to last year.

Try comparing him at the same age with Dunstan - similar build, both pick #18. Dunstan absolutely smashes Gresh at the same age....so if Gresh has NEVER statisticallly been as good as Dunstan EVER in his career so far...why are we sh1ting on Dunstan but patting Gresham on the poo poo?

I wonder if game time being down 20% has anything to do with his disposals being down 20% ....?