Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment

[Joffa Burns]

I was at that game in the outer and do not recall a single racist word yelled at a player.
Maybe at that time I was just accepting that racism was the norm so I don't recall anything specific.

i remember the Nicky gesture and it being reported at the time rightly or wrongly as a showing guts gesture as reported on the podcast. Perhaps they were wrong, perhaps that was a convenient explanation in a racist era, who knows?

Regardless of the intent at the time (guts or skin color) the gesture has transcended the moment and has become a symbol of racism in the sport and has served as a point of non acceptance which is extremely positive.

Nicky and Gilby tore the arses of those s*** bag scum suckers that day and have been immortalized ever since.

I think the dignified response from Nicky would be to suggest the fossils not be given airtime and that the wide majority of people understand the truth behind the gesture. Unfortunately Nickys life has not been as successful or positive a his football career therefore who knows the motivation, I hope it is genuine.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

I was there that day too. There's no controversy.

Racist taunts at Vic Park had been in the news for a while.

THE COMMITMENTS had just come out, popularising the expression, "I'm black and I'm proud."

Cuz and Gil copped extreme racist flak during the game.

We won the game and Cuz raised his jumper and pointed to his skin.

End of story.

(The fact that The Hun might have misreported this is no surprise. That's what they do.)

[StPeter]

The racist taunts were definitely given that day and there is no doubt this inspired Winmar and McAdam to wonderful games.

[BarryGrogan]

I think the dignified response from Nicky ...

I think many Indigenous people are sick and tired of neing dignified about this stuff.

[BarryGrogan]

The racist taunts were definitely given that day and there is no doubt this inspired Winmar and McAdam to wonderful games.

I'm staggered that that's even being questioned to be honest.

[Yorkeys]

Newman and the others are a disgrace. Nothing too low to get publicity. Karma will surely get them. Just rubbish.

[saynta]

Great article. Must read actually.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/rendezview ... ed000cbcc5

[Darth Vader]

The racist taunts were definitely given that day and there is no doubt this inspired Winmar and McAdam to wonderful games.

I'm staggered that that's even being questioned to be honest.

Where has it been questioned?

[To the top]

In regards racism, Jim Krakouer played at St Kilda.

You may wish to hear Jim’s stories of growing up with his family in Mt Barker in West Australia

And the fact Jim and Phil could play football, coming to further prominence when they went to Perth (some 400kms north) to play with Claremont made it worse for them

[The Fireman]

Collingwood supporters were shockingly racist against all indigenous players back then.
I well remember a game against them at the MCG.
We were sitting in the AFL Members section amidst many Collingwood supporters. The filth that spewed from their mouths during the afternoon directed at Nicky et al was unbelievable. I had to move myself and family after being threatened with violence for objecting to what they were yelling.
The day after I sent a letter to McAllister about it - and received a reply from their operations manager that 'they couldn't control what their fans said/did'.
When I pointed out that their captain had made public statements that he could/would say/do anything to 'put' an opponent óff his game' and nobody from Collingwood stood up and said that was wrong, that it gave their supporters the 'green light' to do likewise.
I got no response from them after that.

when people ask me why I hate Collingwood, it's because of this.
It's a funny thing, like a joke that everyone hates Collingwood...but many don't know why...missing teeth etc..

goes much deeper than that. The old.."well every team has it's crap supporters" I get that...but for some reason the majority of $hit gravitated towards one club.

No denying it. indisputable filth.

[Spinner]

I was there that day too. There's no controversy.

Racist taunts at Vic Park had been in the news for a while.

THE COMMITMENTS had just come out, popularising the expression, "I'm black and I'm proud."

Cuz and Gil copped extreme racist flak during the game.

We won the game and Cuz raised his jumper and pointed to his skin.

End of story.

(The fact that The Hun might have misreported this is no surprise. That's what they do.)

Thanks for confirming.

It's funny how the misinterpretation is always from the same people...

Like little lemmings following an agenda.

[Spinner]

The following is my personal opinion and I don’t doubt your recollections

You are stating your recollections honestly, but I honestly don’t think I believe what the editors of those papers wrote at that time.

You have to remember that a commercial enterprise has to always cater to and understand their audience

It’s a bit like the Australian history curriculums written in the 60’s. I just think that our society back then was not willing to confront an ‘honest‘ and uncomfortable truth.

Top post Scallop.

No doubt will still be uncomfortable for some.

[Spinner]

I was at that game in the outer and do not recall a single racist word yelled at a player.
Maybe at that time I was just accepting that racism was the norm so I don't recall anything specific.

i remember the Nicky gesture and it being reported at the time rightly or wrongly as a showing guts gesture as reported on the podcast. Perhaps they were wrong, perhaps that was a convenient explanation in a racist era, who knows?

Regardless of the intent at the time (guts or skin color) the gesture has transcended the moment and has become a symbol of racism in the sport and has served as a point of non acceptance which is extremely positive.

Nicky and Gilby tore the arses of those s*** bag scum suckers that day and have been immortalized ever since.

I think the dignified response from Nicky would be to suggest the fossils not be given airtime and that the wide majority of people understand the truth behind the gesture. Unfortunately Nickys life has not been as successful or positive a his football career therefore who knows the motivation, I hope it is genuine.

Wow, you must have been the only spectator in that whole crowd not to hear anything.

While a possibility, I'd have my money on your second sentence - as much cash as possible.

Really suggesting a more 'dignified' response for Winmar? Good one.

[terry smith rules]

I have a Question whos paying for the lawyer's ?? Being in BLM they couldnt give a toss about black people all they care how much coin they can get out of Gulity white folk , im not saying its Nicky but theres someone in his ear

How dare you call yourself after a great indigenous player and then come on here questioning Nicky’s truth and motives.

[saynta]

Collingwood supporters were shockingly racist against all indigenous players back then.
I well remember a game against them at the MCG.
We were sitting in the AFL Members section amidst many Collingwood supporters. The filth that spewed from their mouths during the afternoon directed at Nicky et al was unbelievable. I had to move myself and family after being threatened with violence for objecting to what they were yelling.
The day after I sent a letter to McAllister about it - and received a reply from their operations manager that 'they couldn't control what their fans said/did'.
When I pointed out that their captain had made public statements that he could/would say/do anything to 'put' an opponent óff his game' and nobody from Collingwood stood up and said that was wrong, that it gave their supporters the 'green light' to do likewise.
I got no response from them after that.

when people ask me why I hate Collingwood, it's because of this.
It's a funny thing, like a joke that everyone hates Collingwood...but many don't know why...missing teeth etc..

goes much deeper than that. The old.."well every team has it's crap supporters" I get that...but for some reason the majority of $hit gravitated towards one club.

No denying it. indisputable filth.

Yes, they are certainly that.

[The Linton Street Flash]

"I think the dignified response from Nicky would be to suggest the fossils not be given airtime and that the wide majority of people understand the truth behind the gesture. Unfortunately Nickys life has not been as successful or positive a his football career therefore who knows the motivation, I hope it is genuine."

FFS, are you for real?

So in your opinion a dignified response from an Indigenous man reacting to slurs against his character and race should be to just ignore it?

How dare you question and sully Nicky's life since his playing career ended, that is easily one of the ugliest things I have ever read on this forum.

What's more, if you can't see the repulsive racism of then going on to question his motivation, then you sir, are a creep of the highest order!!!!

[Joffa Burns]

"I think the dignified response from Nicky would be to suggest the fossils not be given airtime and that the wide majority of people understand the truth behind the gesture. Unfortunately Nickys life has not been as successful or positive a his football career therefore who knows the motivation, I hope it is genuine."

FFS, are you for real?

So in your opinion a dignified response from an Indigenous man reacting to slurs against his character and race should be to just ignore it?

How dare you question and sully Nicky's life since his playing career ended, that is easily one of the ugliest things I have ever read on this forum.

What's more, if you can't see the repulsive racism of then going on to question his motivation, then you sir, are a creep of the highest order!!!!

Yes I am for real!

If you don't like what I write either report it to the moderator if it contravenes rules or is so distasteful or don't read it.

Nicky Winmar was a great footballer and I enjoyed watching him play almost as much as any saint I can remember, on top of freakish talent he probably the best tackler I have ever seen, was also a very funny and likable person in the flesh for those who had the opportunity to meet him.

He may have been a great bloke, but was he a great person? In my opinion - No!
I base this on a couple of people I know well & certain things I am aware of during and post playing days, I would also think my user ID namesake may not be among his biggest fans.

Because the subject is of indigenous heritage all of a sudden my comments are racist.
If that is your interpretation so be it.

You write: if you can't see the repulsive racism of then going on to question his motivation, then you sir, are a creep of the highest order!!!!

Firstly I never commented on whether that questioning the initial motivation was or wasn't racist, but you state if I don't think it's racist I'm a creep, does that mean if I do think it is racist I'm not a creep?

I respect what players did for the club I support during their playing days and those who were involved post career, this respect does not translate to adulation and hero worshiping and that mantra that anyone who played for the club is great human being and is a Saint in the biblical fashion (pardon the pun) for life.

For the record...
The definition of a creep is slang for a scary or odd person who is unpleasant or repulsive. An example of a creep is a scary, leering old man who always stares at you when you walk by his house.

Lastly you have focussed on one sentence while ignoring the rest of the post which was clearly supportive of the stand by Nicky (& Gilbert) and the immortilization of the moment.

And yes, I reiterate i think the most dignified response from Nicky would be to say "those old has beens and never was are fossils, ignore them". That is my opinion and if you think that makes me a racist well so be it.

I remember the Nicky gesture and it being reported at the time rightly or wrongly as a showing guts gesture as reported on the podcast. Perhaps they were wrong, perhaps that was a convenient explanation in a racist era, who knows?

Regardless of the intent at the time (guts or skin color) the gesture has transcended the moment and has become a symbol of racism in the sport and has served as a point of non acceptance which is extremely positive.

Nicky and Gilby tore the arses of those s*** bag scum suckers that day and have been immortalized ever since.

I think the dignified response from Nicky would be to suggest the fossils not be given airtime and that the wide majority of people understand the truth behind the gesture.

[BarryGrogan]

Charlie McAdam, down from Alice Springs, didn’t see much of it. He’d been forcefully removed from his mother when he was six. He’d worked as a stockman and a boxer. He was standing in the outer but the abuse directed towards his son quickly proved too much. He left Victoria Park in tears. He listened to the rest of the game on radio back at his hotel. “I just couldn’t stomach it,” he later said.

[whiskers3614]

Charlie McAdam, down from Alice Springs, didn’t see much of it. He’d been forcefully removed from his mother when he was six. He’d worked as a stockman and a boxer. He was standing in the outer but the abuse directed towards his son quickly proved too much. He left Victoria Park in tears. He listened to the rest of the game on radio back at his hotel. “I just couldn’t stomach it,” he later said.

Sorry but I didn't see or hear anyone disputing that racist remarks occurred on that day.

What I believe is being questioned is the original intent of the gesture concerned, and the mythology that has grown round it.

[Joffa Burns]

I was at that game in the outer and do not recall a single racist word yelled at a player.
Maybe at that time I was just accepting that racism was the norm so I don't recall anything specific.

i remember the Nicky gesture and it being reported at the time rightly or wrongly as a showing guts gesture as reported on the podcast. Perhaps they were wrong, perhaps that was a convenient explanation in a racist era, who knows?

Regardless of the intent at the time (guts or skin color) the gesture has transcended the moment and has become a symbol of racism in the sport and has served as a point of non acceptance which is extremely positive.

Nicky and Gilby tore the arses of those s*** bag scum suckers that day and have been immortalized ever since.

I think the dignified response from Nicky would be to suggest the fossils not be given airtime and that the wide majority of people understand the truth behind the gesture. Unfortunately Nickys life has not been as successful or positive a his football career therefore who knows the motivation, I hope it is genuine.

Wow, you must have been the only spectator in that whole crowd not to hear anything.

While a possibility, I'd have my money on your second sentence - as much cash as possible.

Really suggesting a more 'dignified' response for Winmar? Good one.

I was at the game where Jim O'Dea hit John Greening and I didn't see that.
I was at the game where Ray Biffen kissed Trevor Barker and pinched his @arse and I didn't see that either.

I was in the standing area in the outer (at the Winmar racism game) so not near the Collingwood faithful and no I don't recall hearing anything and yes it is very possible that is because racist & homophobic slurs were common place in those days and as a supporter I was more than likely accustomed to hearing it and therefore oblivious to it. Does it mean it did not happen? Of course not, to suggest that would be ridiculous.

I have never yelled anything racist or homophobic at a game personally, but that is because I don't yell at the game as a supporter. i certainly said things to other players in both football & cricket when I played at local level, that I now wish I hadn't. I am glad the era of racism & homophobic slurs are well behind us.

You are obviously very passionate about racism and I applaud you for this stand, perhaps your tolerance needs to extend to the LGBTQ community as your homophobic slurs on this site are demeaning and a throw-back to an uncultured and uneducated time that is best behind us.

Must take a low life scum to know one...

The usual types turning this thread into a cesspit and pulling each other off too.

Lastly, suggesting a dignified response is not race but opinion related.

[Joffa Burns]

The racist taunts were definitely given that day and there is no doubt this inspired Winmar and McAdam to wonderful games.

I'm staggered that that's even being questioned to be honest.

Where has it been questioned?

I doubt even Ed Maguire or Gold Coat Joffa would even question the validity.

Perhaps McCallister & Tony Shaw at the time, doubt Shaw would now.

It appears Shaws version of Winmars gesture was reported (inaccurately) at the time.
I certainly recall the Heralds Sun (which ever it was called at the time) reporting the guts comment.

[BarryGrogan]

Charlie McAdam, down from Alice Springs, didn’t see much of it. He’d been forcefully removed from his mother when he was six. He’d worked as a stockman and a boxer. He was standing in the outer but the abuse directed towards his son quickly proved too much. He left Victoria Park in tears. He listened to the rest of the game on radio back at his hotel. “I just couldn’t stomach it,” he later said.

Sorry but I didn't see or hear anyone disputing that racist remarks occurred on that day.

What I believe is being questioned is the original intent of the gesture concerned, and the mythology that has grown round it.

Very naive.

By questioning the original motive of Winmar raising his jumper - you are effectively arguing any number of the following:

- He's a liar.
- He's deceived many people for his own personalr gain.
- He might not have really cared about racism at the time, and winning a game of footy meant more to him.
- The whole Collingwood racist thing has been overblown.
- Winmar is a stooge for the Left.
- The whole thing isn't really iconic at all.

Even if Scott, Newman and Sheahan didn't directly mean any of the above - they have directly argued the first two. And they have unfortunately brought rednecks and cretins out of the woodwork to argue the rest.

If you don't think this the case, check out BigFooty for just one example of this.


We even have people on here bringing his character into question. Like it's relevant to anything.


"Just recently Nicky said to me: 'I really appreciate you've changed my life, but for me, I'm having to embrace possibly one of the worst days of my life over and over again',"

[whiskers3614]

Sorry, to whom was the quote addressed and in what context?

[Joffa Burns]

Sorry, to whom was the quote addressed and in what context?

I think the reporting of the incident is being questioned, not the motivation of the gesture.
That is my opinion.

It appears the original "guts" report from Hreald Sun was aligned to comments by Tony Shaw.

[Joffa Burns]

By questioning the original motive of Winmar raising his jumper - you are effectively arguing any number of the following:

- He's a liar.
- He's deceived many people for his own personalr gain.
- He might not have really cared about racism at the time, and winning a game of footy meant more to him.
- The whole Collingwood racist thing has been overblown.
- Winmar is a stooge for the Left.
- The whole thing isn't really iconic at all.

Even if Scott, Newman and Sheahan didn't directly mean any of the above - they have directly argued the first two. And they have unfortunately brought rednecks and cretins out of the woodwork to argue the rest.

You really are an extremist.

How do you think of this stuff?