Changes Rnd 4

[freely]

Yes, I agree with others on here who suggest Joffa should play. Hang on. er.

[Scollop]

The North Melbourne game troubled me because we were unable to match their “toughness” when it mattered - and this happens against other sides as well

My view remains that to really improve we need 2 more class midfielders who generate

To me none of Ross, Steele or Dunstan generate

We need players in there that need to be tackled not players lauded because they tackle

The fact that these 3 kicked just 13 goals from 66 games last year is telling, at least to me

Then we get to our “small” contingent, noting Butler is cemented

But Lonie and Hind are not to the standard meaning Butler and Gresham are the options named in the forward 6

That leaves a few gaps, replacing one of Ross or Steele (to me Ross) then Lonie and Hind

We are building a side so need to not go back to Geary - because Clark, Coffield, Long and now Paton are the future in defence and need to be developed

We have attributes but there are still deficiencies

Plus the likes of Membrey not thriving with Marshall and King is a problem

We need Membrey, Hannebery, Hill to stand up

Just for starters

A win can sometimes mask

Losses are where you assess and refocus

Some people///i.e... Ratt's bosses/// have made decisions which he has no control over and he has to go with the flow////he's only in his first year as the head cockroach

I'm sure Ratts has ideas which could be adopted but it's only with the losses that he can convince the footy department and his bosses that these structural changes need to be made

e.g. play Marshall only and drop Ryder

e.g. drop Hannas and make a statement

e.g. play Sebbie off the bench as a winger and give him only 50% game time

e.g. drop Lonie and play Battle so Josh can contest a mark or two

Hind has surprised me in a few games. The kid has heart and if he keeps improving he is a weapon with his speed. Lonie keeps making the same mistakes after 4 years+ on the list

[freely]

Yeah poor old ratts, hands tied, - gimme a break.

[Scollop]

Yeah poor old ratts, hands tied, - gimme a break.

If Brett dropped Paddy very early in the year it may not go down so well with his cousin Bradley or with his boss who made the decision to give him a contract

The club recruited Paddy. It wasn’t Brett’s idea. He does have a footy department boss doesn’t he?

Hats off to Ryder for the way he has trained and prepared this year, but I am still of the view that we’d be better off in most games with RoMa as the sole ruckman

It won’t be a good for morale if Ratts drops Hannas too...and that’s going to make the people in charge of the footy department look silly for taking the risk. As well as perhaps create a level of confusion with the playing list....and with supporters

How can we trust an administration who can’t make good list management decisions for the sake of improving the side?

[Secret Kiel]

But I doubt he is, in fact I doubt anyone is.

So you believe the players value this years comp the same way they value the competition when it has fairness, integrity and crowds and when they get paid much more money. Have you spoken to an AFL player to ask him how excited he is about this year's comp?

[SaintPav]

But I doubt he is, in fact I doubt anyone is.

So you believe the players value this years comp the same way they value the competition when it has fairness, integrity and crowds and when they get paid much more money. Have you spoken to an AFL player to ask him how excited he is about this year's comp?

Well this year's competition does have a certain feel to it...

Desiderium...

[Ghost Like]

But I doubt he is, in fact I doubt anyone is.

So you believe the players value this years comp the same way they value the competition when it has fairness, integrity and crowds and when they get paid much more money. Have you spoken to an AFL player to ask him how excited he is about this year's comp?

I value my work the same in 2020 as I did in 2019, I expect that AFL players will as well, even more so if lists (their livelihood) are to be trimmed by 20 to 25 per cent.

You did make me chuckle though S*K* when you used the words fairness and integrity to describe the AFL competition. If you'd used the word transparent I'd be in tears.

Again, if a St Kilda player wants to put his bum in the corner (not work) during 2020, I do not want him at the club in 2021. If you appreciate employees like that, perhaps you can hire them.

[Secret Kiel]

But I doubt he is, in fact I doubt anyone is.

So you believe the players value this years comp the same way they value the competition when it has fairness, integrity and crowds and when they get paid much more money. Have you spoken to an AFL player to ask him how excited he is about this year's comp?

I value my work the same in 2020 as I did in 2019, I expect that AFL players will as well, even more so if lists (their livelihood) are to be trimmed by 20 to 25 per cent.

You did make me chuckle though S*K* when you used the words fairness and integrity to describe the AFL competition. If you'd used the word transparent I'd be in tears.

Again, if a St Kilda player wants to put his bum in the corner (not work) during 2020, I do not want him at the club in 2021. If you appreciate employees like that, perhaps you can hire them.

You might know the answer to this, will the AFL give you your cardboard cutout back when they are finished with it?

[Secret Kiel]

But I doubt he is, in fact I doubt anyone is.

So you believe the players value this years comp the same way they value the competition when it has fairness, integrity and crowds and when they get paid much more money. Have you spoken to an AFL player to ask him how excited he is about this year's comp?

Well this year's competition does have a certain feel to it...

Desiderium...

I had to look that word up, very appropriate.

[Ghost Like]

But I doubt he is, in fact I doubt anyone is.

So you believe the players value this years comp the same way they value the competition when it has fairness, integrity and crowds and when they get paid much more money. Have you spoken to an AFL player to ask him how excited he is about this year's comp?

I value my work the same in 2020 as I did in 2019, I expect that AFL players will as well, even more so if lists (their livelihood) are to be trimmed by 20 to 25 per cent.

You did make me chuckle though S*K* when you used the words fairness and integrity to describe the AFL competition. If you'd used the word transparent I'd be in tears.

Again, if a St Kilda player wants to put his bum in the corner (not work) during 2020, I do not want him at the club in 2021. If you appreciate employees like that, perhaps you can hire them.

You might know the answer to this, will the AFL give you your cardboard cutout back when they are finished with it?

What are you on about???
Why do you care about changes for Round 4?
I don't think I've known anyone so desperate to be correct about something that they will take joy in a competition being abandoned causing the loss of thousands of jobs. Praying the club they apparently support goes under so they can say, "See, I told you so."
Will you be employing any players who give up on the season and the club? They sound like individuals of your ilk.

[takeaway]

Yeah poor old ratts, hands tied, - gimme a break.

If Brett dropped Paddy very early in the year it may not go down so well with his cousin Bradley or with his boss who made the decision to give him a contract

The club recruited Paddy. It wasn’t Brett’s idea. He does have a footy department boss doesn’t he?

Hats off to Ryder for the way he has trained and prepared this year, but I am still of the view that we’d be better off in most games with RoMa as the sole ruckman

It won’t be a good for morale if Ratts drops Hannas too...and that’s going to make the people in charge of the footy department look silly for taking the risk. As well as perhaps create a level of confusion with the playing list....and with supporters

How can we trust an administration who can’t make good list management decisions for the sake of improving the side?

Good grief. Nice theories, but I get the general gist, if we win Ratts is a great communicator, if we lose, it's because that hopeless administration makes poor recruiting decisions that Ratts had absolutely no say in, and won't let Ratts drop certain players for political reasons. Makes perfect sense.......

[Secret Kiel]

But I doubt he is, in fact I doubt anyone is.

So you believe the players value this years comp the same way they value the competition when it has fairness, integrity and crowds and when they get paid much more money. Have you spoken to an AFL player to ask him how excited he is about this year's comp?

I value my work the same in 2020 as I did in 2019, I expect that AFL players will as well, even more so if lists (their livelihood) are to be trimmed by 20 to 25 per cent.

You did make me chuckle though S*K* when you used the words fairness and integrity to describe the AFL competition. If you'd used the word transparent I'd be in tears.

Again, if a St Kilda player wants to put his bum in the corner (not work) during 2020, I do not want him at the club in 2021. If you appreciate employees like that, perhaps you can hire them.

You might know the answer to this, will the AFL give you your cardboard cutout back when they are finished with it?

What are you on about???
Why do you care about changes for Round 4?
I don't think I've known anyone so desperate to be correct about something that they will take joy in a competition being abandoned causing the loss of thousands of jobs. Praying the club they apparently support goes under so they can say, "See, I told you so."
Will you be employing any players who give up on the season and the club? They sound like individuals of your ilk.

I'm very comfortable with my support and contribution to the club. My hope is that this crisis is not our undoing and that those in charge have thier hands firmly on the wheel and thier eyes on the road ahead. As such I'm doing my bit to hold them accountable by monitoring thier decisions and having my say where I feel it could be helpful.

Does your cardboard cutout have a name?

[Joffa Burns]

But I doubt he is, in fact I doubt anyone is.

So you believe the players value this years comp the same way they value the competition when it has fairness, integrity and crowds and when they get paid much more money. Have you spoken to an AFL player to ask him how excited he is about this year's comp?

Well this year's competition does have a certain feel to it...

Desiderium...

I had to look that word up, very appropriate.

Me too, I'm working on a way to casually roll it into a sentence today

[saintspremiers]

Care factor has dropped considerably , has shown everyone how incapable the side can be.

Honestly didnt see that coming, I knew the skunks were good and tipped them for the Corana cup..but wow...we stank.

Back to fishing for me.. spare the heart ache.

Signed Mr Glass half empty...(for good reason)

I agree but the sad thing is that the club continue to believe that they are on the right path. If Gags and Satan continue trading our early picks for players that are over 25 we are f***ed.

Geez you're a miserable SOB at times.

<1 day ban for commenting negatively on a poster>

[Ghost Like]

But I doubt he is, in fact I doubt anyone is.

So you believe the players value this years comp the same way they value the competition when it has fairness, integrity and crowds and when they get paid much more money. Have you spoken to an AFL player to ask him how excited he is about this year's comp?

I value my work the same in 2020 as I did in 2019, I expect that AFL players will as well, even more so if lists (their livelihood) are to be trimmed by 20 to 25 per cent.

You did make me chuckle though S*K* when you used the words fairness and integrity to describe the AFL competition. If you'd used the word transparent I'd be in tears.

Again, if a St Kilda player wants to put his bum in the corner (not work) during 2020, I do not want him at the club in 2021. If you appreciate employees like that, perhaps you can hire them.

You might know the answer to this, will the AFL give you your cardboard cutout back when they are finished with it?

What are you on about???
Why do you care about changes for Round 4?
I don't think I've known anyone so desperate to be correct about something that they will take joy in a competition being abandoned causing the loss of thousands of jobs. Praying the club they apparently support goes under so they can say, "See, I told you so."
Will you be employing any players who give up on the season and the club? They sound like individuals of your ilk.

I'm very comfortable with my support and contribution to the club. My hope is that this crisis is not our undoing and that those in charge have thier hands firmly on the wheel and thier eyes on the road ahead. As such I'm doing my bit to hold them accountable by monitoring thier decisions and having my say where I feel it could be helpful.

Does your cardboard cutout have a name?

Thank you S*K*, I feel relieved you hold people accountable by monitoring decisions, not doing anything, just monitoring. You must be over the moon Big Brother has been resurrected.

I'm thinking of naming it after something with similar substance, perhaps Cairnsman or Highettman, they don't seem to be used any more. You don't mind do you S*K*?

[Secret Kiel]

But I doubt he is, in fact I doubt anyone is.

So you believe the players value this years comp the same way they value the competition when it has fairness, integrity and crowds and when they get paid much more money. Have you spoken to an AFL player to ask him how excited he is about this year's comp?

I value my work the same in 2020 as I did in 2019, I expect that AFL players will as well, even more so if lists (their livelihood) are to be trimmed by 20 to 25 per cent.

You did make me chuckle though S*K* when you used the words fairness and integrity to describe the AFL competition. If you'd used the word transparent I'd be in tears.

Again, if a St Kilda player wants to put his bum in the corner (not work) during 2020, I do not want him at the club in 2021. If you appreciate employees like that, perhaps you can hire them.

You might know the answer to this, will the AFL give you your cardboard cutout back when they are finished with it?

What are you on about???
Why do you care about changes for Round 4?
I don't think I've known anyone so desperate to be correct about something that they will take joy in a competition being abandoned causing the loss of thousands of jobs. Praying the club they apparently support goes under so they can say, "See, I told you so."
Will you be employing any players who give up on the season and the club? They sound like individuals of your ilk.

I'm very comfortable with my support and contribution to the club. My hope is that this crisis is not our undoing and that those in charge have thier hands firmly on the wheel and thier eyes on the road ahead. As such I'm doing my bit to hold them accountable by monitoring thier decisions and having my say where I feel it could be helpful.

Does your cardboard cutout have a name?

Thank you S*K*, I feel relieved you hold people accountable by monitoring decisions, not doing anything, just monitoring. You must be over the moon Big Brother has been resurrected.

I'm thinking of naming it after something with similar substance, perhaps Cairnsman or Highettman, they don't seem to be used any more. You don't mind do you S*K*?

I thought you would have gone with Bazza, Dazza or Gazza.

I bet you two have a tussle of the minds huh.

[Zed]

Geary comes in if fit and Hind out.
If Dusty plays I’d like to see Marsh have first crack at him. Frees up Steele to be a pure mid and focus him on getting the clearances. If Dusty doesn’t play we may look at swapping out Marsh for another mid - Dunstan the likely candidate.
Loved Ryders game against the Dogs but give him a rest this week and bring in Battle. King can take the ruck deep in the forward line, Carlisle when Marshall needs a rest . Battle provides good cover at both ends of the ground.
I want Coffield to be a star but he just hasn’t done enough and we need quicker movement out of defence so Webster in for Coff.
Lonie on thin ice - but keep for 1 more week. Kent will be in the selection conversation.

[Ghost Like]

I really believe last week was insipid, yes Collingwood played well but the simple fact is, we allowed them to.

In a reduced season, it would be folly to allow under performers too many opportunities to stink it up.

That said, no changes. Select Battle, Geary & Parker as emergencies. Gauge who Richmond select. If they go with one ruck, we go with Marshall and Battle replaces Ryder. If Geary is fit, he possibly takes Houli but whoever suggested Marsh take Houli makes some sense.

Parker could take Lonies spot because he's quick, tackles and makes defenders look over their shoulders. Lonie deserves more of an opportunity. I wish we could combine Lonie & Parker, much like I wished we could have combined Davenport & Daniels.

[samoht]

Clearances from lost hit outs are a misleading stat IMO. How many of them are good clearances?

Well, there was one “ beautiful”double-handed hitout by Ryder to a Bulldog player who was well in the clear, which resulted in a Doggie goal. The Bulldog player took full advantage of it.
You’re obviously not referring to that one.

Struth, you’re a hard man. Paddy was recruited as mentor for Marshall and a back up experienced big man. He is a superb tap ruckman and OK he missed one....can’t get them all, be serious! And as a forward, same as our other struggling ‘big’ forwards, the delivery to these fellows hasn’t been as we’d/they’d have liked.....yet! We are a work in progress....only a few games into season with very new team.

What I pointed out regarding Ryder was in response to shane grambeau's comment that "clearances from lost hitouts are a misleading stat" (i.e., they don't count for much) and was meant for ruckmen in general .... and also on the notion that there are "superb-tap ruckman" out there.
In a ruck contest, 2 ruckmen are leaping upwards against each other and are trying to get their hands to the ball - so their momentum and gaze is focussed in one direction - and that is upwards - and at their feet there's a tight-knit cluster of players going this way and that. So there's very little real chance of pinpointing a tap to fall into a team mate's hands, given all this.
At boundary throw-ins, a strong-bodied ruckman might sometimes get a slight advantage, but clearance players can see what is unfolding and can generally negate any advantage the opposing ruckman may have - their eyes are on the ball and on their ground-level opponent - they don't care who wins the tap.

Marshall happens to be a strong-bodied ruckman, which is good. So, we might end up winning 2 more clearances from boundary throw-ins than the opposition on an average week, because of his strong body - it is not a big deal.

Sometimes, on rare occasions, it seems to come together - and it looks like a super tap - just like a player can sometimes dribble the ball through the goals from impossible angles, to kick the goal of the week.
This then explains how we can have 37 more hitouts than the Bulldogs - quadruple their hitouts - and yet only end up with 3 more clearances - as the reality is that most hitouts (90% plus) don't amount to much. That's what the stats are telling us.
Also, lost hitouts can be very costly - Ryder's misdirected hitout to a Bulldog player who was well in the clear ended up costing us a goal, how is this a misleading stat, how does this not count, why should we ignore this?

[tony74]

Gears won’t come up.
Think paddy will have a rest
Chance for Kent
Battle unlikely
- just my views, not necessarily correct. Except for Gears

[The_Dud]

Gears won’t come up.
Think paddy will have a rest
Chance for Kent
Battle unlikely
- just my views, not necessarily correct. Except for Gears

Kent would be baffling...

[BarryGrogan]

In a ruck contest, 2 ruckmen are leaping upwards against each other and are trying to get their hands to the ball - so their momentum and gaze is focussed in one direction - and that is upwards - and at their feet there's a tight-knit cluster of players going this way and that. So there's very little real chance of pinpointing a tap to fall into a team mate's hands, given all this.

I think that's simplistic.

That's like watching a UFC fight and thinking it's just two guys brawling wildly.

There's far more to ruckwork than simply hitting the ball into a midfielder's hands.

[samoht]

I think that's simplistic.

That's like watching a UFC fight and thinking it's just two guys brawling wildly.

There's far more to ruckwork than simply hitting the ball into a midfielder's hands.

I think people have a simplistic view of the ruck contest.

Just because some ruckmen can leap higher and can get more hitouts than other ruckmen - doesn't make them "superb tap ruckmen."

The point is there's a degree of difficulty in a ruck contest that most people are overlooking - that the stats clearly bear out.

Even if the hitouts were being directed towards widely-spaced, cardboard cutouts - instead of a tight-knit cluster of mobile players - it'd still be difficult to pinpoint any one of them, given the level of contest and that the ruckmen are leaping upwards with their momentum moving that way (up) and their focus being on trying to outreach each other while bumping/pushing into each other and probably chopping each other's arms at the same time (accidently or deliberately).

Ryder didn't mean to tap the ball to a Doggie player in the clear, but the level of contest was such that it happened.

And the best clearances are the ones where the ruckman just grabs the ball out of the ruck - almost done out of frustration.

[freely]

Gears won’t come up.
Think paddy will have a rest
Chance for Kent
Battle unlikely
- just my views, not necessarily correct. Except for Gears

Can you shed any light on where Phillips is at, Tony?

[shanegrambeau]

Gears won’t come up.
Think paddy will have a rest
Chance for Kent
Battle unlikely
- just my views, not necessarily correct. Except for Gears

Can you shed any light on where Phillips is at, Tony?

Why chance for Kent?

Sorry, don't wanna be disrespectful and don't really have a clue, but my impression is he isn't quick , strong and clean enough under pressure. I don't mean, on his legs but I mean in the crunches.