RUCK Duo Zero

[SAINT-LEE]

Is it me or is the RoMo and Ryder show not getting the job done?

Week 1 we got 2 extra hit outs and it seemed okay.
Week 2 we won hit outs by a lot but only just won hit out to advantage.
Week 3 we were beat down by Grundy, only 5 more but he gave 89% advantage compared to Rowan's 43%.

The output from Rowan around the ground has drastically diminished.
Overall Rowan has not improved SO FAR (we cant judge his flippin career off 3 games). But a 3 game sampling of this ruck duo has so far shown Rowan's contested possessions almost half from 2019, his disposals drop 31%, his goals, hell....everything has fallen.

Have the comp figured him out after a breakout season?
Has he lowered intensity with Ryder to back up?

Has the new set up hurt his style? Last year he averaged 67% offensive play...in 2020 its 39%...He's mostly playing defense.


This isnt a sky falling or apocalyptic post just wondering. Not all tag teams on paper equate to increased production.

Not all team system changes suit every players style.

The good news is we have Brett....not the human AL, formerly known as coach, who would've given this failing ruck duo 6 seasons to work it out before making adjustments.

[Sainter_Dad]

Week 2 we won hit outs by a lot but only just won hit out to advantage.

I stopped reading here - Against the dogs it was 20 Hitouts to Advantage v 2. You kind Sir/Madam have an over expectation if this is "Only just won".

[Ghost Like]

To be honest, if Marshall had been the sole ruck, the way most were playing it would have been a 10 to 15 goal drubbing. From memory (I won't be watching it again), the majority of their scoring came when Marshall was rucking and Grundy could select which mid to clear the ball.

Our performance tonight was a genuine team effort. Please do not get sucked in by romanticised memories of Marshall's rucking when he simply replaced, thankfully, Longer who stepped down (not up) after Hickey. RoMa was an accidental ruckman. He's good but has so much to learn, especially now opposition rucks are watching tapes of him now.

We lack a Cripps or Pendlebury to pick up and lead a poor performing midfield. I love Jack Steele, I want him to get vocal and call out the high priced underperformers.

[Spinner]

Ryder's not doing enough around the ground or forward to justify the two. Especially with he reduced quarters.

Expect a change to a single ruck next week, surely.

[Saintmatt]

[media][/media]

To be honest, if Marshall had been the sole ruck, the way most were playing it would have been a 10 to 15 goal drubbing. From memory (I won't be watching it again), the majority of their scoring came when Marshall was rucking and Grundy could select which mid to clear the ball.

Our performance tonight was a genuine team effort. Please do not get sucked in by romanticised memories of Marshall's rucking when he simply replaced, thankfully, Longer who stepped down (not up) after Hickey. RoMa was an accidental ruckman. He's good but has so much to learn, especially now opposition rucks are watching tapes of him now.

We lack a Cripps or Pendlebury to pick up and lead a poor performing midfield. I love Jack Steele, I want him to get vocal and call out the high priced underperformers.

Personally, I’d like Jack Steele to start with calling out his inept stand-in Captain. It makes me sick watching him waddle around the midfield - handballing to feet, dink kicking sideways and pointing at everyone.

He shows zero urgency or energy - not great when he’s got stuff all skill to rely on either

[WellardSaint]

[media][/media]

To be honest, if Marshall had been the sole ruck, the way most were playing it would have been a 10 to 15 goal drubbing. From memory (I won't be watching it again), the majority of their scoring came when Marshall was rucking and Grundy could select which mid to clear the ball.

Our performance tonight was a genuine team effort. Please do not get sucked in by romanticised memories of Marshall's rucking when he simply replaced, thankfully, Longer who stepped down (not up) after Hickey. RoMa was an accidental ruckman. He's good but has so much to learn, especially now opposition rucks are watching tapes of him now.

We lack a Cripps or Pendlebury to pick up and lead a poor performing midfield. I love Jack Steele, I want him to get vocal and call out the high priced underperformers.

Personally, I’d like Jack Steele to start with calling out his inept stand-in Captain. It makes me sick watching him waddle around the midfield - handballing to feet, dink kicking sideways and pointing at everyone.

He shows zero urgency or energy - not great when he’s got stuff all skill to rely on either

One glaring lazy error was a handpass to a guy's ankles, when that guy was next to a Pie, and Useless stood without moving, no follow-up assist at all. Spectator.
Horrible. And many more like it

[bigcarl]

Jumped and beaten everywhere really. Not sure the two rucks is what caused that. Just lost confidence and what started as a dirty day became dirtier by the minute.

Disappointing, but the Magpies are a good side. It will click.

[Jacks Back]

The good news is we have Brett....not the human AL, formerly known as coach, who would've given this failing ruck duo 6 seasons to work it out before making adjustments.

The only thing is, will Ratts drop Ryder when everyone made a song and dance about all the new (old) recruits last year? I'm not sure he will want to embarrass himself by dropping Ryder.

[Ghost Like]

[media][/media]

To be honest, if Marshall had been the sole ruck, the way most were playing it would have been a 10 to 15 goal drubbing. From memory (I won't be watching it again), the majority of their scoring came when Marshall was rucking and Grundy could select which mid to clear the ball.

Our performance tonight was a genuine team effort. Please do not get sucked in by romanticised memories of Marshall's rucking when he simply replaced, thankfully, Longer who stepped down (not up) after Hickey. RoMa was an accidental ruckman. He's good but has so much to learn, especially now opposition rucks are watching tapes of him now.

We lack a Cripps or Pendlebury to pick up and lead a poor performing midfield. I love Jack Steele, I want him to get vocal and call out the high priced underperformers.

Personally, I’d like Jack Steele to start with calling out his inept stand-in Captain. It makes me sick watching him waddle around the midfield - handballing to feet, dink kicking sideways and pointing at everyone.

He shows zero urgency or energy - not great when he’s got stuff all skill to rely on either

We can improve immediately by making a statement of intent and make Steele the Captain.

[Sanctorum]

[media][/media]

To be honest, if Marshall had been the sole ruck, the way most were playing it would have been a 10 to 15 goal drubbing. From memory (I won't be watching it again), the majority of their scoring came when Marshall was rucking and Grundy could select which mid to clear the ball.

Our performance tonight was a genuine team effort. Please do not get sucked in by romanticised memories of Marshall's rucking when he simply replaced, thankfully, Longer who stepped down (not up) after Hickey. RoMa was an accidental ruckman. He's good but has so much to learn, especially now opposition rucks are watching tapes of him now.

We lack a Cripps or Pendlebury to pick up and lead a poor performing midfield. I love Jack Steele, I want him to get vocal and call out the high priced underperformers.

Personally, I’d like Jack Steele to start with calling out his inept stand-in Captain. It makes me sick watching him waddle around the midfield - handballing to feet, dink kicking sideways and pointing at everyone.

He shows zero urgency or energy - not great when he’s got stuff all skill to rely on either

We can improve immediately by making a statement of intent and make Steele the Captain.

I agree that Seb Ross is not the leader that St Kilda needs but the problem is that the players chose him as VC, and heir-apparent to Geary, and Jack Steele is not even in the leadership group, so it's unlikely he will be promoted to captain this year, as much as we would like to see that...

Of the current leadership group, (apart from C & VC) - Membrey, Roberton, Billings and Hill, I favour Brad Hill as he has the class to lead the team by example, and is obviously respected by the players.

So unfortunately Ross will have the honours - based on last night's game I would drop him for Dunstan, but as with Geary when he's fit, the selectors are not going to dump him.

[The_Dud]

It is disappointing that it appears some players are untouchable, and can just cruise along in mediocrity, occasionally having a good game, knowing they’re safe.

While other players can’t get a consistent go in the seniors even though they bust their ass every game they get to play.

Back to the ruck, we can’t have the number 1 ruckman only touching the ball 5 and 8 times a game, that’s back to the Billy Longer days.

[whiskers3614]

There's a bloke at Geelong who would perfectly complement Marshall...
Rhys something or other

[Joffa Burns]

Clearly the Ryder affect is diminishing Romas influence on the game and hurting the performance in my opinion.

The other worrying issue is Romas reluctance to jump at ruck contests last night, was it a strategy against Grundy?

Never wanted Ryder recruited as he was terrible last year but hoped he would turn back the clock in 2020.
Other that touching up a young ruck against the Dogs in the centre square Ryder doesn't look like it, he looks a player to contest the ruck and nothing more, very Longer like.

Perhaps Ryder out and Battle in as a forward, or Battle goes back and Carslile tried forward.
In the shorter games Roma can ruck 95% as he thrives on the workload.

Battle for Ryder please!

[BarryGrogan]

Our midfield is very, very ordinary.

Without Ryder, I actually think we'd be 0-3 with the lowest % of all time.

[spert]

Our midfield is very, very ordinary.

Without Ryder, I actually think we'd be 0-3 with the lowest % of all time.

Ryder did a good job in the ruck against the Dogs, but the same ground level players who benefitted from his rucking in that game, didn't look interested in the hard ball last night. Not sure about Paddy, but I think Roma is not hitting the contests as he was last season and may need to lift a bit. Maybe Abbott could get a run at some stage.

[saynta]

Ryder's not doing enough around the ground or forward to justify the two. Especially with he reduced quarters.

Expect a change to a single ruck next week, surely.

Would be an extremely safe bet.

[BarryGrogan]

The good news is we have Brett....not the human AL, formerly known as coach, who would've given this failing ruck duo 6 seasons to work it out before making adjustments.

The only thing is, will Ratts drop Ryder when everyone made a song and dance about all the new (old) recruits last year? I'm not sure he will want to embarrass himself by dropping Ryder.

I can't see a reason why Ryder would be dropped.

The club clearly want two ruckmen playing, with most acknowledging that Marshall is a better half forward than he is a ruckman.
I don't think we're even really playing two ruckmen anyway. Marshall was recruited as a key forward, and he's pretty much playing in that role.
Membrey, King and Marshall, with three smalls around them is a decent forward half that has worked well when the midfield is remotely competitive.

Ryder is clearly our best ruckman, and has overall performed better than probably 90% of the team so far this season.


Lonie adds nothing. Gresham is a liability.

Need to hope Bytel can play, and ghat Hunter Clark loses the Dad Bod and can become a midfielder. Otherwise, we'll only ever be a top 6-8 team.



I hope they stick to the plan, as I like what I see in terms of the structure and our style of play.

Once we learn to play together, we'll be a good team.

[freely]

I favour Brad Hill as he has the class to lead the team by example, and is obviously respected by the players.

jeezus. well, there's your problem right there.

[Joffa Burns]

with most acknowledging that Marshall is a better half forward than he is a ruckman.

Ryder is clearly our best ruckman,

Lonie adds nothing. Gresham is a liability.

Who is the most that acknowledge Marshall is a better half forward than a ruck man? Couldn’t establish himself as a forward and was 2nd in B&F as a ruck.

In what universe is Ryder currently better than Romas 2019 form. Paddy 2020 is a Longer clone, he’s not the 2016 Ryder.

Gresham a liability? Hind and Marsh were liabilities and perhaps Ryder & even Hannebery who looks disinterested. Gresham has some disposal issues to work on, but that comment is ridiculous.
At least he can win the ball.

[Peanut Farm]

with most acknowledging that Marshall is a better half forward than he is a ruckman.

Ryder is clearly our best ruckman,

Lonie adds nothing. Gresham is a liability.

Who is the most that acknowledge Marshall is a better half forward than a ruck man? Couldn’t establish himself as a forward and was 2nd in B&F as a ruck.

In what universe is Ryder currently better than Romas 2019 form. Paddy 2020 is a Longer clone, he’s not the 2016 Ryder.

Gresham a liability? Hind and Marsh were liabilities and perhaps Ryder & even Hannebery who looks disinterested. Gresham has some disposal issues to work on, but that comment is ridiculous.
At least he can win the ball.

Marshall & Ryder combo is the least of our problems. We kicked 1 goal after half time in perfect conditions on a big open ground.
Gresham cant kick, agree Hind & Marsh are not up to it. Hannebery....well what can we do? I can go on with a few more players. Hope there at least 4 changes this week.

[WellardSaint]

Ratten said there'll be games where we will have only one ruckman due to match-ups.
He might drop Ryder this week, to 'go back and work on things' exactly why Robbo didn't get picked.

Let RoMa ruck most of this game to hopefully regain some of his touch.
Tigers play really well re tactics around clearances, and if we let em dominate us in that space, it will get ugly.
Roma being dominant will help us a lot

[samoht]

We lost the clearances by 11, and Grundy had almost as many possessions as Marshall and Ryder combined.
And by playing one ruckman - they theoretically had another ground-level player that we didn't have who racked up another 20 plus possessions.

So, effectively we were 20 + 11(clearances) = 31 possessions behind - just in the ruck vs Collingwood.

We effectively lost the game just there.

We need to rethink the ruck.

[Joffa Burns]

We lost the clearances by 11, and Grundy had almost as many possessions as Marshall and Ryder combined.
And by playing one ruckman - they theoretically had another ground-level player that we didn't have who racked up another 20 plus possessions.

So, effectively we were 20 + 11(clearances) = 31 possessions behind - just in the ruck vs Collingwood.

We effectively lost the game just there.

The big concern for me & many on this site was what negative affect the Ryder recruitment may have on Marshalls performance and development.

Assuming Marhsalls 2019 was not a Corey McKernan 1996 one off, you'd suggest the impact is already visible.

Collingwood played Cameron who pretty much played forward so you are correct that they had access to an extra mid die to our selection policy.

One of Marshalls strengths last year was carrying the workload and running out the game.

I doubt Ratten will have the ticker to drop Ryder, even if he thinks its justified though perhaps he thinks the balance is correct. Who knows.

[The_Dud]

We lost the clearances by 11, and Grundy had almost as many possessions as Marshall and Ryder combined.
And by playing one ruckman - they theoretically had another ground-level player that we didn't have who racked up another 20 plus possessions.

So, effectively we were 20 + 11(clearances) = 31 possessions behind - just in the ruck vs Collingwood.

We effectively lost the game just there.

The big concern for me & many on this site was what negative affect the Ryder recruitment may have on Marshalls performance and development.

Assuming Marhsalls 2019 was not a Corey McKernan 1996 one off, you'd suggest the impact is already visible.

Collingwood played Cameron who pretty much played forward so you are correct that they had access to an extra mid die to our selection policy.

One of Marshalls strengths last year was carrying the workload and running out the game.

I doubt Ratten will have the ticker to drop Ryder, even if he thinks its justified though perhaps he thinks the balance is correct. Who knows.

Yeah, seems a bit odd to take a young guy out of the position where he just came 2nd in the B&F.

Help him out if he needs it, but don't replace him.

[Joffa Burns]

We lost the clearances by 11, and Grundy had almost as many possessions as Marshall and Ryder combined.
And by playing one ruckman - they theoretically had another ground-level player that we didn't have who racked up another 20 plus possessions.

So, effectively we were 20 + 11(clearances) = 31 possessions behind - just in the ruck vs Collingwood.

We effectively lost the game just there.

The big concern for me & many on this site was what negative affect the Ryder recruitment may have on Marshalls performance and development.

Assuming Marhsalls 2019 was not a Corey McKernan 1996 one off, you'd suggest the impact is already visible.

Collingwood played Cameron who pretty much played forward so you are correct that they had access to an extra mid die to our selection policy.

One of Marshalls strengths last year was carrying the workload and running out the game.

I doubt Ratten will have the ticker to drop Ryder, even if he thinks its justified though perhaps he thinks the balance is correct. Who knows.

Yeah, seems a bit odd to take a young guy out of the position where he just came 2nd in the B&F.

Help him out if he needs it, but don't replace him.

Yep, normally you replace a veteran with a young buck, we have the next potential Grundy and have largely replaced him with a veteran.

Marshall can pinch hit forward with some ruck assistance, but I don't know where this Marshall is a forward talk comes from.

He may have been recruited as a forward but he never locked down a spot in the team as a forward, only came to prominence when given ruck duties die to injuries to other players.

Plenty of players are recruited as forwards or backs but make a career in a different position.
When has Marshall ever dominated as a forward?
He's been a dominant and combative ruck.