Rendell’s rant

[saintspremiers]

Matt Rendell was interviewed after being fired after round 1 from the Pies recruitment department.

This is what the comedian had to say:

St Kilda would have won at least two flags had they not sacked Rendell's close friend Grant Thomas as coach in 2006. "If he had've kept coaching, St Kilda would have won two or three flags. We only had to fix one area [conditioning] ... we had Geelong's measure and they won three," he observed.

[bigcarl]

We’ll never know unfortunately.

[mad saint guy]

Can't discount that opinion. Our injury list come September every year with GT was astronomical. Get Dave Misson in there to fix that and who knows how we would have gone in the 2007-2012 period if we had kept our core list together.

[wally]

I think GT may have overruled anyone who put restrictions in place.
I think the GT/Buttress public fallout was his ultimate undoing

[Scollop]

Matt Rendell was interviewed after being fired after round 1 from the Pies recruitment department.

This is what the comedian had to say:

St Kilda would have won at least two flags had they not sacked Rendell's close friend Grant Thomas as coach in 2006. "If he had've kept coaching, St Kilda would have won two or three flags. We only had to fix one area [conditioning] ... we had Geelong's measure and they won three," he observed.

Secret Keil and Spinner and takeaway disagree

Barks4Ever vigorously disagrees and Teflon just blew a woofer valve

[BarryGrogan]

I think GT may have overruled anyone who put restrictions in place.
I think the GT/Buttress public fallout was his ultimate undoing

I agree with Rendell, and I agree with you.

We would have s*** in 05 with even half a decent run with injury.

To make a prelim with the injury list we had was extraordinary. To be competitive was a borderline miracle.

Who knows beyond if the list was healthy and super fit?


However from what I know about Thomas (which is very little) I find it hard to believe he would have allowed a fitness guy to dictate much.

[Secret Kiel]

I think GT may have overruled anyone who put restrictions in place.
I think the GT/Buttress public fallout was his ultimate undoing

I agree with Rendell, and I agree with you.

We would have s*** in 05 with even half a decent run with injury.

To make a prelim with the injury list we had was extraordinary. To be competitive was a borderline miracle.

Who knows beyond if the list was healthy and super fit?


However from what I know about Thomas (which is very little) I find it hard to believe he would have allowed a fitness guy to dictate much.

2005 was one that got away due to injuries, possibly the most talanted list the club has ever had.

[saynta]

Matt Rendell was interviewed after being fired after round 1 from the Pies recruitment department.

This is what the comedian had to say:

St Kilda would have won at least two flags had they not sacked Rendell's close friend Grant Thomas as coach in 2006. "If he had've kept coaching, St Kilda would have won two or three flags. We only had to fix one area [conditioning] ... we had Geelong's measure and they won three," he observed.

I will go along with Matt, as will plenty of others,

[asiu]

2nd that.

[asiu]

oh the wasted years

[SydneySainter]

I think GT may have overruled anyone who put restrictions in place.
I think the GT/Buttress public fallout was his ultimate undoing

I agree with Rendell, and I agree with you.

We would have s*** in 05 with even half a decent run with injury.

To make a prelim with the injury list we had was extraordinary. To be competitive was a borderline miracle.

Who knows beyond if the list was healthy and super fit?


However from what I know about Thomas (which is very little) I find it hard to believe he would have allowed a fitness guy to dictate much.

2005 was one that got away due to injuries, possibly the most talanted list the club has ever had.

Even with a clean bill of health, I just couldn’t see us beating the Eagles in ‘05. Their midfield just too quick and full of silk.

[AuckSaint]

Sitting through the 3rd week of N Z shutdown I’ve caught up on a lot of old games...just finished watching the 2004 preliminary against SASkunks. What a gutsy effort that was and wonder if that wasn’t a better balanced team than we has in 2009. Not necessarily more skilled, just a great team that was a smidge from beating the ultimate premiers in Adelaide.

What Thomas could or couldn’t have done after 2006 we’ll never know but I wonder...certainly would have been more exciting to watch

[To the top]

The old Lockleys boy (with his brothers) who graduated from West Torrens to Fitzroy and then to mine host in Fitzroy was a very decent footballer with a very astute footy brain

Mind you having a few with Matt and Tim could be daunting because in some establishments such as one in Pulteney Street they could not stand up so had to lean on the bar

Knows his business does Matt so will get back into the industry when we once again have an industry

I do not doubt his assessments of that period

A free kick against Kosi then a free kick not paid to Penney cost us a Grand Final appearance - and I reckon a premiership which would have cemented Thomas (regardless of all else)

We had not only Drafted as we had but we had recruited reasonably well

That little bit of luck you need just didn’t appear

[Joffa Burns]

Matt Rendell was interviewed after being fired after round 1 from the Pies recruitment department.

This is what the comedian had to say:

St Kilda would have won at least two flags had they not sacked Rendell's close friend Grant Thomas as coach in 2006. "If he had've kept coaching, St Kilda would have won two or three flags. We only had to fix one area [conditioning] ... we had Geelong's measure and they won three," he observed.

Got to make a GF to have a chance of winning one.
GT had the best list I have ever seen assembled in 04 - 05 and couldn't make a GF.

The Saints under GT were exciting and brilliant to watch, I'd say my favorite era for watching matches but I doubt his brand would have won on the big game.
IMO we were similar to the brilliant attacking Geelong sides of the early 90's under Blight who were great teams but could not win it on GF.

To suggest we'd have won two or three is fanciful.
Perhaps he should have been tested along with Gilbo?

[Scollop]

Matt Rendell was interviewed after being fired after round 1 from the Pies recruitment department.

This is what the comedian had to say:

St Kilda would have won at least two flags had they not sacked Rendell's close friend Grant Thomas as coach in 2006. "If he had've kept coaching, St Kilda would have won two or three flags. We only had to fix one area [conditioning] ... we had Geelong's measure and they won three," he observed.

Got to make a GF to have a chance of winning one.
GT had the best list I have ever seen assembled in 04 - 05 and couldn't make a GF.

The Saints under GT were exciting and brilliant to watch, I'd say my favorite era for watching matches but I doubt his brand would have won on the big game.
IMO we were similar to the brilliant attacking Geelong sides of the early 90's under Blight who were great teams but could not win it on GF.

To suggest we'd have won two or three is fanciful.
Perhaps he should have been tested along with Gilbo?

Those last two sentence are a bit of a Freudian slip aren’t they? GT was sacked after all, by a bloke who declared and admitted he was a cocaine addict. It didn’t make much sense at the time and I know that your justification has always been that you have ‘to make a GF to have a chance of winning one’ but I wonder...are you defending the decision based on your bias or compromised position?

Your opinion on the list at that time is open to debate. Skeptic posted a list of the youngsters that were involved in that team ( in the other thread on the prelim 2004) and it seems like we didn’t really have a mature group based on historical evidence. There were around 10 of them who were no where near the age that is most often associated with a player being in their prime.

Are you sticking up for someone you know who may have been involved in Thomas’s sacking?

[Joffa Burns]

Matt Rendell was interviewed after being fired after round 1 from the Pies recruitment department.

This is what the comedian had to say:

St Kilda would have won at least two flags had they not sacked Rendell's close friend Grant Thomas as coach in 2006. "If he had've kept coaching, St Kilda would have won two or three flags. We only had to fix one area [conditioning] ... we had Geelong's measure and they won three," he observed.

Got to make a GF to have a chance of winning one.
GT had the best list I have ever seen assembled in 04 - 05 and couldn't make a GF.

The Saints under GT were exciting and brilliant to watch, I'd say my favorite era for watching matches but I doubt his brand would have won on the big game.
IMO we were similar to the brilliant attacking Geelong sides of the early 90's under Blight who were great teams but could not win it on GF.

To suggest we'd have won two or three is fanciful.
Perhaps he should have been tested along with Gilbo?

Those last two sentence are a bit of a Freudian slip aren’t they? GT was sacked after all, by a bloke who declared and admitted he was a cocaine addict. It didn’t make much sense at the time and I know that your justification has always been that you have ‘to make a GF to have a chance of winning one’ but I wonder...are you defending the decision based on your bias or compromised position?

Your opinion on the list at that time is open to debate. Skeptic posted a list of the youngsters that were involved in that team ( in the other thread on the prelim 2004) and it seems like we didn’t really have a mature group based on historical evidence. There were around 10 of them who were no where near the age that is most often associated with a player being in their prime.

Are you sticking up for someone you know who may have been involved in Thomas’s sacking?

Wow scollop, I thought Rendell was fantasizing with his two to three flags.
Now I am potentially sticking up for someone I know who may have been involved in GT's sacking.

When did I suggest that I support or supported the sacking of GT?
For the record, I was never a GT fan and I do not believe he should have been considered for the role and I was disgusted with the mock process that landed him the role. On top of this I do not think he would have ever won us a flag let alone make a GF due to his egotistical personality. It is no coincidence he has been sacked from each job he has held in football.

With that aside I really enjoyed going to the games in 04-05 and this was probably the most exciting period as a fan supporting the club week in week out. I liken the period to Geelong in the 90's where they would regularly win shoot outs and were exciting to watch but never managed to win the big one.

However during his tenure at no time did I want Thomas sacked as I am a firm believer in stability and working through a coaches issues and improving him as most times I think the devil you kn ow may be better than the unknown. I have felt Richo was not the right guy for the Saints but again was never on here calling for his demise as I prefer to be supportive whilst a coach is in the role.

Once Thomas was gone I was happy with the Lyon appointment and felt Lyon did a great job at the saints. Unfortunately it appears you have to be either a GT or a Ross supporter on here and I am certainly the latter when it comes to the two ex coaches. I will say that the former players I am acquainted with talk of Lyon with great praise whilst players of the GT era have largely cut him off as a cancer.

I spoke at length with Rooeys dad who I have met a few times and is a real gentleman about Ross and he could not be more complementary Ross as a person. Without going into detail its fair to say Ross remained supportive with the family through Maddies ordeal and remains a close friend. Ross was also very generous with his time when in communication with a family member who is a sportsman.

I also posted some time back about the myth of GT getting to prelims with a bunch of kids, it was nothing but a massive myth. When I have the time I'll search the post if I can find it. It clearly showed a great mix of mature players and great exciting talented you, the perfect mix with the exception of a decent ruckman hence the clubs call on Barry Brooks who would have been the icing on the cake from a list perspective.

[BarryGrogan]

It is no coincidence he has been sacked from each job he has held in football.

That appies to about 90% of people in football though, doesn't it?

[saynta]

It is no coincidence he has been sacked from each job he has held in football.

That appies to about 90% of people in football though, doesn't it?

Correct.

[skeptic]

After RL’s appointment, I remember reading an interview with GT where he praised the selection and stated that they had tried to recruit Lyon around 03/04’ish as an assistant.

I think about that sometimes. What would that have looked like? Both had something that the other was lacking and if they could have gotten on the same page... Reckon we would have won 6 flags.

[Joffa Burns]

After RL’s appointment, I remember reading an interview with GT where he praised the selection and stated that they had tried to recruit Lyon around 03/04’ish as an assistant.

I think about that sometimes. What would that have looked like? Both had something that the other was lacking and if they could have gotten on the same page... Reckon we would have won 6 flags.

Lyon match day coach and GT director of coaching.
I feel the egos would have been too big for it too work.
Ross could work very well under those for whom he had great respect.

[BarryGrogan]

I also posted some time back about the myth of GT getting to prelims with a bunch of kids, it was nothing but a massive myth. When I have the time I'll search the post if I can find it. It clearly showed a great mix of mature players and great exciting talented you, the perfect mix with the exception of a decent ruckman hence the clubs call on Barry Brooks who would have been the icing on the cake from a list perspective.

It wasn't a bunch of kids as such.

It was a team with a huge chunk of its key players being 21 and under.

That was the issue. Or the really exciting part - depending on how you looked at it.

Penny was 21, Goose was only 19 I think. Dal, Ball, Kosi, Roo, BJ and KNobel were all on key roles.

That's what thrust us onto the scene. Thomas fast tracked these guys by empowering them very early in their careers.

The catch of course was, that in finals they didn't have the maturity or ability to turns things around.

I disagree that the blend was perfect. Ideally, 3 or 4 of those guys would have been in the 100-150 game bracket which would have been the perfect balance.

Our guys in the middle bracket were generally battlers or GoPs.

[Joffa Burns]

It is no coincidence he has been sacked from each job he has held in football.

That appies to about 90% of people in football though, doesn't it?

No I disagree, perhaps senior coaches by and large are sacked from their final job ) but not people who have held a multitude of roles.

As we are referencing GT & Ross (for something different ) in this thread let's look at Ross'career in AFL football after retiring as a player in 1995 through injury.

AC Richmond - 1996 - 1999 : left to join Carlton as AC
AC Carlton - 2000 - 2004 : left to join Sydney as AC
AC Sydney - 2005 - 2006 : left to take senior Saints role
SC Saints - 2007 - 2011 : left to take SC role at Freo
SC Freo - 2012 - 2019 : sacked

Ross has held 5 jobs in 23 years and been sacked from one.

Most senior coaches (90% most definitely end up sacked but many have served strong apprenticeships just like Ross where they were not sacked from each role they have held.

[skeptic]

After RL’s appointment, I remember reading an interview with GT where he praised the selection and stated that they had tried to recruit Lyon around 03/04’ish as an assistant.

I think about that sometimes. What would that have looked like? Both had something that the other was lacking and if they could have gotten on the same page... Reckon we would have won 6 flags.

Lyon match day coach and GT director of coaching.
I feel the egos would have been too big for it too work.
Ross could work very well under those for whom he had great respect.

Most likely you’re right but oh the possibilities

[Joffa Burns]

I also posted some time back about the myth of GT getting to prelims with a bunch of kids, it was nothing but a massive myth. When I have the time I'll search the post if I can find it. It clearly showed a great mix of mature players and great exciting talented you, the perfect mix with the exception of a decent ruckman hence the clubs call on Barry Brooks who would have been the icing on the cake from a list perspective.

It wasn't a bunch of kids as such.

It was a team with a huge chunk of its key players being 21 and under.

That was the issue. Or the really exciting part - depending on how you looked at it.

Penny was 21, Goose was only 19 I think. Dal, Ball, Kosi, Roo, BJ and KNobel were all on key roles.

That's what thrust us onto the scene. Thomas fast tracked these guys by empowering them very early in their careers.

The catch of course was, that in finals they didn't have the maturity or ability to turns things around.

I disagree that the blend was perfect. Ideally, 3 or 4 of those guys would have been in the 100-150 game bracket which would have been the perfect balance.

Our guys in the middle bracket were generally battlers or GoPs.

The above is just inaccurate,perhaps a fond clouded memory that some on here choose to believe an immature core got us to 2 prelims when it is not true.

In the 2005 we had Gehrig, Hamill, Jones, Hayes & Hudgton at their peak and 25 YO Milne on his way all a little better than GOP's IMO - Jones, Hayes, Gehrig 2005 - AA.

Veterans Harvey (AA 2003), Thompson & Peckett all played the full season or thereabout.
Mature hard bodied foot-soldiers in Guerra, Voss, Powell, Penny were automatic selections and are what you need to balance the team, mid age solid hard at it AFL players.

Of the young brigade these guys were already stars:
Reiwoldt was AA in 2004
Ball & Dal Santo played about every game in 2005 and were both AA that season

The next wave were playing consistent footy with Fisher (21 games), Goddard (19 games), Kossie, X.
Really only Montagna from the gun group was not showing the signs at that point in time.

In 2004 the young group of Ball, Dal, Goddard, Fisher, Maguire etc were a little raw but by 2005 were established guns (Roo, Dal, Ball, Maguire & X).

Well stocked in club veterans with experience and leadership still playing good footy, a group of All Australian stars at their peak and young up and coming superstars whop were already All Australian, the perfect mix with the exception of a decent ruck.

Games and age at the start of the 2005 season (start of the season)

1. Peckett – 32 - games 215 (season 20)
2. Hamill – 27 -169 games
3. Clarke – 21 - 57 games
4. Thompson – 32 - games 172 (season 22)
5. Jones – 28 - games 204 (season 22 & AA 2004)
6. Fisher – 21 - games 10
7. Hayes – 25 - games 116 (season 24 & AA in 2003/4/5)
8. Hudgton – 28 - games 153
9. Gehrig – 29 -games 191 (season 22 & AA 2004)
10. Baker – 24 – 90 games (season 24)
11. Montagna – 21 – 22 games
12. Reiwoldt – 22 – 75 games (AA in 2004)
13. Voss – 27 – 112 games (season 24)
14. Ball – 20 – 41 games (season 22 & AA 2005)
15. Gram – 20 – 4 games
16. Clarke – 1 game
17. Powell – 28 – 116 games
18. Goddard – 19 – 42 games (season 19)
19. Penny – 24 – 71 games
20. Murray – 22 – 10 games
21. Ferguson – 20 – 6 games
22. Fiora – 24 – 78 games
23. Kossie – 22 – 58 games
24. Brooks – 21 – 6 games
25. Fisher – 22 7 games (season 21)
26. Dal Santo – 21 – 51 games (season 22 & AA 2005)
27. Blake – 24 – 59 games
28. Ackland – 23 – 12 games (season 22)
29. Stone – 23 – 19 games but makes great coffee
30. McGough – 21 – 37 games
31. Maguire – 20 – 46 games (season 21)
32. McQualter - 18 – 0
33. Gwilt – 18 – 0
34. Guerra – 23 – 83 games
35. Harvey – 33 – 300 games (AA 2003)
40. Schwarze – 23 – 53 games
44. Milne – 25 – 73 games

[perfectionist]

Aaron Hamill missed both PFs. That was the difference. He was the only forward who could hold the ball in. It meant that without him, we were hurt too easily on the rebound. Also, people need to remember that the opposition teams weren't full of mugs. PA had their best side ever. Sydney played like we did a few years later. Geelong were the team of the decade. In such circumstances, you need a bit of luck and we had none. In GF1, had Michael Gardiner not done his hammy in the 1st Q, we would have won in the last.