March series lessons.

[saynta]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 9d9c80c9be


'In another era the Western Bulldogs would have had to throw the king’s ransom at Josh Bruce.

An old-fashioned bash-and-crash forward who just never stops taking contested marks and in every season without injury as a key forward has kicked between 36-50 goals.

Somehow as St Kilda juggled a million trade priorities the Bulldogs identified their man and eventually got him for a steal – picks 32 and 51 after some brinkmanship.

Not only did the Dogs keep a high pick for small forward Cody Weightman (pick 15), they could also secure Alex Keath for pick 45 with a shuffle of second and third-round picks.

It took some cap space, but thank you very much Tom Boyd for leaving millions on the table to get that done.

Against Port Adelaide Bruce was advertised for a player who kicked 36 goals and took 43 contested marks last year.

Four goals, seven marks (three contested) on a blustery day where Luke Beveridge conceded delivery to forwards was below par at times.

It is early days but if you rate the traded players on bang for buck — what clubs gave up — he shapes as the biggest difference maker.

Who else is in that category from an admittedly tiny sample size?

2. Ex-Adelaide ruckman Sam Jacobs is only 31 and after 23 hit-outs in Marsh 1 the new Giant was superb against Richmond with 18 disposals, and 13 of his 27 hit-outs to advantage as well as nine marks. All for a future fourth-rounder.


3. Darcy Cameron is the ultimate freebie, the ex-Sydney ruckman taken for pick 56 with the Pies getting pick 62 back. The new Pie might not even start Round 1 but his tap-work was so good against Richmond he is one to watch.

4. St Kilda basically got Zak Jones for pick 32 with a shuffle of 2020 third and fourth rounders and against Collingwood at Morwell he showcased his hard edge and ability to weave out of stoppages with 20 touches, four score involvements and 373 metres gained.

He can improve his disposals but still think he’s a beauty who immediately improves Brett Ratten’s midfield.

5. Jack Steven went for a song to Geelong for pick 58 for obvious reasons. The likelihood of a plus-50 pick playing more than 50 games is around 10 per cent, so this still shapes as a potential masterstroke. All he needs is a three-goal, 18-possession final to frank this deal.

6. Melbourne paid up big time salary-wise for Adam Tomlinson and Ed Langdon, with the ex-Giant a free agent and Langdon going for a 2020 second-rounder with later picks flying back and forth. Tomlinson racked up 32 touches against Hawthorn (with 13 contested) plus ten marks, while Langdon has had 25 and 19 touches, including six stoppage clearances against the Hawks. Already the Demons look so much more organised on both wings.


7. Eddie Betts for a future fourth-round pick. He isn’t going to dazzle with pace, he probably isn’t even going to defend that well. But in the Pies scratch match and against the Lions he kicked two and gave plenty off. And without Tom Papley who else is he keeping out of that small forward role?

8. The Hawks haven’t been flash but after giving up only a future fourth-rounder for Jon Patton he has held up his end of the bargain. The Demons kept him to six disposals and 1.1 but against St Kilda in a dozen touches he took six marks for 3.2. The issue might be him getting the best forward every week.
.

9. St Kilda paid the world for Brad Hill – both with picks and salary – but sometimes it’s just worth it for a lick of class. Against Hawthorn he went at 82 per by foot with his 18 disposals, cutting the Hawks to ribbons. Then against the Pies in his 28 touches he had a game-high 592 metres gained and eight score involvements. Keep him fit and he’s the icing on the cake for a tough Saints midfield. West Coast handed over a massive deal for Tim Kelly and while he will be a star, he has gone at 39 and 50 per cent by foot in his two games despite averaging 28 possessions.

10. Essendon got Carlton ruck Andrew Phillips for nothing, handing over picks 57 and 70 and getting back 61 and 72. Against West Coast he was excellent with 21 hit-outs, a dozen touches and a goal. It already looks an inspired selection with Sam Draper back in the second half of the season.

[desertsaint]

think many of here know it - letting josh go for half a song was way way under. just too desperate to land all our trades that we stopped thinking clearly.

[Rocket]

There is a little more to the Bruce argument. Bruce is all about Bruce was the internal word. He helped clear cap space (B King in the pipe) and let’s remember Bruce did struggle the very best backs. I’d still rather have him .. but there are a few reasons within.

[saynta]

think many of here know it - letting josh go for half a song was way way under. just too desperate to land all our trades that we stopped thinking clearly.

Yep. Ditto to some extent Steven and Acres.

[stkfc1]

Gotta give something to get something. Whilst I too would rather have seen all 3 running around in a Saints jumper this year, I trust the club knew that we could cover their loss and add extra dynamics to the team, that they required. On the small sample we've seen, this has happened. Hill looks like he'll be worth every penny and I like what I've seen of the others. We got one back with Howard trade, as he's worth way more than what we paid. So too Butler. Swings and roundabouts. Bruce is the one I'm not so sure we can cover as he was pretty good on his day and King isnt going to be a consistent KPP yet. Our forward line is a concern for mine, as far as marking power, especially if we're going to do the old 'bomb it long' crap we dished up again on the weekend. Hope Ratts had a stern word to the midfield group after the game. Lower your eyes FFS!.

[To the top]

As I understand St Kilda would not match the 4 year Contract (and the money) on offer from WB for Bruce - and Bruce accepted the WB offer which was a very good offer

Bruce to me was an enigma - promising much with his presence but post the first season when he kicked 50 not performing to requirements

His output dropped and 4 goal games (or more) were few and far between

So we will see if he can back up at WB from his practice match performance

Steven was class but the circumstances of his personal life impacted across his final years at St Kilda

Geelong no doubt have gotten a class player for nothing - but Jack is 30 and part of a “Dad’s Army” side seeking one final salute

The manner in which they have been despatched in Finals over past seasons says their time is past - and they recruit a 30 year old so he can be “close to family” (and where living in proximity sometimes counts for not much and can add to the underlying problems)

All the best to Jack in the twilight of his career

Acres, maybe the change in environment from the constraints of Richardson and the labelling that led to being firstly a defensive forward when he was an attack player will
afford Acres the opportunity to showcase his undoubted skill set

Opportunity will see a very, very fine footballer emerge because we saw the signs at St Kilda when opportunity was given

Sometimes moves such as this can benefit a player and this may very well be such an example

Newnes had run his race at St Kilda and was stagnating when he should have been going from level to level and a prime mover in a side where he had more experience than most

[saintsRrising]

think many of here know it - letting josh go for half a song was way way under. just too desperate to land all our trades that we stopped thinking clearly.

Or you could look at as we did land all our trades. After years of missing out this was a major turn around.

Even more so as the Saints had a dismal 2020 and were on the nose. In fact, this haul was quite amazing.

I though Hill was a massive pick up for us, and after watching his two Marsh games with us am now certain that this is so.


You need to look at all our trades as a whole.

[terry smith rules]

There is a little more to the Bruce argument. Bruce is all about Bruce was the internal word. He helped clear cap space (B King in the pipe) and let’s remember Bruce did struggle the very best backs. I’d still rather have him .. but there are a few reasons within.

The internal word from who and who are you to know

We had this conversation last October on here. Bloody rumour and innuendo to besmirch a much loved Saint

Fqf

[mr six o'clock]

Bruce always looked great for us when he took his marks .
Unfortunately he had just as many games where he couldn't take a mark.
A good ordinary player but with lots of good ordinary players we've gone nowhere
We need class and fingers crossed King will be that class on the forward line

[Scollop]

There is a little more to the Bruce argument. Bruce is all about Bruce was the internal word. He helped clear cap space (B King in the pipe) and let’s remember Bruce did struggle the very best backs. I’d still rather have him .. but there are a few reasons within.

The internal word from who and who are you to know

We had this conversation last October on here. Bloody rumour and innuendo to besmirch a much loved Saint

Fqf

I'm with you. I saw a team player out on the footy field as far as Josh was concerned. The rumour and innuendo started early last year when his contract was being negotiated

Imagine if someone had said that about one of our stars like Joey or Roo or BJ.

[Linton Lodger]

Bottom line is, who would he displace for Round 1 if we still had him? King, Battle, Ryder or Membrey?

[Legendary]

Agree with the above. How do you play Bruce, King, Membrey, Marshall, Ryder and Battle all in the same team? You can't or they'll crash into each other.

We let him go for less than his value but in 2 years time when King is hitting his straps, Membrey is kicking 45+ each year and Marshall is the dominant ruck/forward in the comp, I reckon we'll have a pretty good balance - one that we wouldn't have had with Bruce.

Don't underestimate the salary cap space we saved too. Bruce was in our top 3 highest paid is my understanding.

[bigcarl]

Agree with the above. How do you play Bruce, King, Membrey, Marshall, Ryder and Battle all in the same team? You can't or they'll crash into each other.

We let him go for less than his value but in 2 years time when King is hitting his straps, Membrey is kicking 45+ each year and Marshall is the dominant ruck/forward in the comp, I reckon we'll have a pretty good balance - one that we wouldn't have had with Bruce.

Don't underestimate the salary cap space we saved too. Bruce was in our top 3 highest paid is my understanding.

Yep. Win/win

[starsign]

As stated earlier you have to look at the whole trading picture and on the ledger we finished well in front with a very promising list with depth
You have to speculate to accumulate as the saying goes

[Impatient Sainter]

Bruce will be a better player at the Bulldogs because of the simple fact that their midfield will deliver to him on a lead lace out. Plus he will have Naughton and Schache taking some heat. We under rated him at the club, but we had to trade out to get in what we wanted and he was expendable.

The Bulldogs sweated and made the most of our mega trading good luck to them and it gives us the chance to develop Winx, who is our future star!

[Secret Kiel]

A really interesting way of looking at the Bruce value proposition and the question of who does he displace.

It's also really interesting to speculate that he should be a better player at the Bulldogs because of the quality of thier midfield.

I love both of these musings and it's why I'm sure many Saints fans will keep an eye on Josh's career at the Dogs.

[desertsaint]

Agree with the above. How do you play Bruce, King, Membrey, Marshall, Ryder and Battle all in the same team? You can't or they'll crash into each other.

We let him go for less than his value but in 2 years time when King is hitting his straps, Membrey is kicking 45+ each year and Marshall is the dominant ruck/forward in the comp, I reckon we'll have a pretty good balance - one that we wouldn't have had with Bruce.

Don't underestimate the salary cap space we saved too. Bruce was in our top 3 highest paid is my understanding.

all said bruce is a superior forward to all of them (bar membrey perhaps). king will also be very unlikely to play a full season. then there are injuries. currently our tall forward stocks are: a young debutant very high draftpick, a young inexperienced forward who we were grooming as a back, an experienced second rung ruck who doesnt look much chop up forward, a future champion ruckman, and membrey, how would bruce fit into that? first or second picked.
obviously we are looking forward and hoping. fingers crossed.

[SinCitySainter]

Bruce leaving was inevitable as soon as the dogs made the 4 year massive salary offer. From the rumours I heard if we had matched it he would have been our highest paid player. Letting him go was the correct choice I just wish we had got a bit more for him.

[Joffa Burns]

You can’t look at the trades in isolation in my opinion.

We had the target group and knew what we had to let go to secure them.

If we are happy overall we have improved the lists and our chance of making finals we need to accept we had to let’s some go for under due to salary cap.

My opinion is the year before cost us trading for Hannebery and Kent on big coin meaning to land the players we wanted we had to clear cap space.

[Shaggy]

You can’t look at the trades in isolation in my opinion.

We had the target group and knew what we had to let go to secure them.

If we are happy overall we have improved the lists and our chance of making finals we need to accept we had to let’s some go for under due to salary cap.

My opinion is the year before cost us trading for Hannebery and Kent on big coin meaning to land the players we wanted we had to clear cap space.

We have opposing views.

I think without Dan happening we would not have our current recruits.

Small steps create confidence for big strides.

We have been short on draft picks not salary cap. Dan effectively only cost us pick 39.

Of course Dan must play more than 5 matches to be worth it but nice he was in our best in 4 of them despite the long lay off.

[diddley]

I think without Dan happening we would not have our current recruits.

Small steps create confidence for big strides.

I couldn’t agree more with this.
Good players need more than a big pay cheque to see a club as a “destination” (most of the time)
I see him as being the building block (amongst others, like Ratten, Leathlean, Roughead) to get better personal on board.
No “Big Fish” is going to come to us without that foundation first.