New saints to debut round 1

[Joffa Burns]

It's going to be a new look Saints round 1.

What are everyones thoughts on who will debut for the Saints round 1?
Have I missed anyone?

I think all of the following:

1. King (I have heard he has been told barring mishap he will debut round 1)
2. Hill
3. Jones
4. Howard
5. Ryder
6. Butler

Probably have to go back to early 2000's to have so many new faces debuting.

[Saintmatt]

It's going to be a new look Saints round 1.

What are everyones thoughts on who will debut for the Saints round 1?
Have I missed anyone?

I think all of the following:

1. King (I have heard he has been told barring mishap he will debut round 1)
2. Hill
3. Jones
4. Howard
5. Ryder
6. Butler

Probably have to go back to early 2000's to have so many new faces debuting.

I think that's about right. The only one I thought might be a bit 50/50 is Howard in that, if Ben Brown doesn't come up from his calf injury then, perhaps we'd be too tall down back as North really doesn't have much in the way of tall timber other than Sideshow Bob's doppelganger.

I think Ryder is a must as it will give Marshall a change to expose Todd G later in the game if Paddy R is able to crash into him hard for 7-10 mins at the start of each quarter.

[saintspremiers]

It's going to be a new look Saints round 1.

What are everyones thoughts on who will debut for the Saints round 1?
Have I missed anyone?

I think all of the following:

1. King (I have heard he has been told barring mishap he will debut round 1)
2. Hill
3. Jones
4. Howard
5. Ryder
6. Butler

Probably have to go back to early 2000's to have so many new faces debuting.

I think that's about right. The only one I thought might be a bit 50/50 is Howard in that, if Ben Brown doesn't come up from his calf injury then, perhaps we'd be too tall down back as North really doesn't have much in the way of tall timber other than Sideshow Bob's doppelganger.

I think Ryder is a must as it will give Marshall a change to expose Todd G later in the game if Paddy R is able to crash into him hard for 7-10 mins at the start of each quarter.

How much better will it be to have Ryder in as second ruck rather than Bawoose who gave us nothing as a backup.

I reckon King, if he debuts in round 1, will have a week of learning ahead of him after his first match. No doubt the Norf dingbat players will try hard to rough him up and make his life miserable. Ryder and Jake the Snake to the rescue if that happens!!

[Joffa Burns]

It's going to be a new look Saints round 1.

What are everyones thoughts on who will debut for the Saints round 1?
Have I missed anyone?

I think all of the following:

1. King (I have heard he has been told barring mishap he will debut round 1)
2. Hill
3. Jones
4. Howard
5. Ryder
6. Butler

Probably have to go back to early 2000's to have so many new faces debuting.

I think that's about right. The only one I thought might be a bit 50/50 is Howard in that, if Ben Brown doesn't come up from his calf injury then, perhaps we'd be too tall down back as North really doesn't have much in the way of tall timber other than Sideshow Bob's doppelganger.

I think Ryder is a must as it will give Marshall a change to expose Todd G later in the game if Paddy R is able to crash into him hard for 7-10 mins at the start of each quarter.

I think Howard is a lock.
The only one I though might be unsure was Butler.
IMO Billings, Gresham, Lonnie, King, Membrey, Ryder to all start forward with Butler next in line from Kent and Hind etc.

[Saintmatt]

It's going to be a new look Saints round 1.

What are everyones thoughts on who will debut for the Saints round 1?
Have I missed anyone?

I think all of the following:

1. King (I have heard he has been told barring mishap he will debut round 1)
2. Hill
3. Jones
4. Howard
5. Ryder
6. Butler

Probably have to go back to early 2000's to have so many new faces debuting.

I think that's about right. The only one I thought might be a bit 50/50 is Howard in that, if Ben Brown doesn't come up from his calf injury then, perhaps we'd be too tall down back as North really doesn't have much in the way of tall timber other than Sideshow Bob's doppelganger.

I think Ryder is a must as it will give Marshall a change to expose Todd G later in the game if Paddy R is able to crash into him hard for 7-10 mins at the start of each quarter.

I think Howard is a lock.
The only one I though might be unsure was Butler.
IMO Billings, Gresham, Lonnie, King, Membrey, Ryder to all start forward with Butler next in line from Kent and Hind etc.

Fair call - but I think you'll find Butler is massively important to the way Ratten wants us to play. Butler was specifically targeted for (a) his elite running power - Ratten wants a small forward who can hit the wings - ALL DAY - and then rip back to create the outnumber; (b) Elite forward pressure. Richmond rated him as 2nd only behind Dan Rioli in F50 pressure acts in 2017.

Lonie has the tricks but, unfortunately - just doesn't have the body mass to stick a tackle regularly. I'd not be surpised if Butler is preferred over Jack Lonie at the outset

[Joffa Burns]

It's going to be a new look Saints round 1.

What are everyones thoughts on who will debut for the Saints round 1?
Have I missed anyone?

I think all of the following:

1. King (I have heard he has been told barring mishap he will debut round 1)
2. Hill
3. Jones
4. Howard
5. Ryder
6. Butler

Probably have to go back to early 2000's to have so many new faces debuting.

I think that's about right. The only one I thought might be a bit 50/50 is Howard in that, if Ben Brown doesn't come up from his calf injury then, perhaps we'd be too tall down back as North really doesn't have much in the way of tall timber other than Sideshow Bob's doppelganger.

I think Ryder is a must as it will give Marshall a change to expose Todd G later in the game if Paddy R is able to crash into him hard for 7-10 mins at the start of each quarter.

I think Howard is a lock.
The only one I though might be unsure was Butler.
IMO Billings, Gresham, Lonnie, King, Membrey, Ryder to all start forward with Butler next in line from Kent and Hind etc.

Fair call - but I think you'll find Butler is massively important to the way Ratten wants us to play. Butler was specifically targeted for (a) his elite running power - Ratten wants a small forward who can hit the wings - ALL DAY - and then rip back to create the outnumber; (b) Elite forward pressure. Richmond rated him as 2nd only behind Dan Rioli in F50 pressure acts in 2017.

Lonie has the tricks but, unfortunately - just doesn't have the body mass to stick a tackle regularly. I'd not be surpised if Butler is preferred over Jack Lonie at the outset

Agree with you Saintmatt.

I have both Lonie & Butler playing round 1 as the small forwards with Gresham & Billings the other small forwards rotating through the middle/ wings.

Can they fit Kent or Hind as well?
Richo seemed a big fan of Kent, wonder if Ratten is similar?
You'd say Kent over Hind but personally I prefer Hind.

In order..
Greham, Billings, Lonie, Butler, Hind, Kent with Parker still recovering.

[Secret Kiel]

If King or any other player who is yet to debut or is on the fringe has already told they are lock at this stage of a pre season then the club has been hijacked by circus clowns.

#selectionintegrity
#elitecoaching

[asiu]

lol @sideshow bob.

jakethesnake will be hiding at the other end of the ground
... hows he gunna protect the giraffe ?

i’d be sending the drinks marshall forward
on square up duties with a little corral work by
other members of the side

[Saintmatt]

It's going to be a new look Saints round 1.

What are everyones thoughts on who will debut for the Saints round 1?
Have I missed anyone?

I think all of the following:

1. King (I have heard he has been told barring mishap he will debut round 1)
2. Hill
3. Jones
4. Howard
5. Ryder
6. Butler

Probably have to go back to early 2000's to have so many new faces debuting.

I think that's about right. The only one I thought might be a bit 50/50 is Howard in that, if Ben Brown doesn't come up from his calf injury then, perhaps we'd be too tall down back as North really doesn't have much in the way of tall timber other than Sideshow Bob's doppelganger.

I think Ryder is a must as it will give Marshall a change to expose Todd G later in the game if Paddy R is able to crash into him hard for 7-10 mins at the start of each quarter.

I think Howard is a lock.
The only one I though might be unsure was Butler.
IMO Billings, Gresham, Lonnie, King, Membrey, Ryder to all start forward with Butler next in line from Kent and Hind etc.

Fair call - but I think you'll find Butler is massively important to the way Ratten wants us to play. Butler was specifically targeted for (a) his elite running power - Ratten wants a small forward who can hit the wings - ALL DAY - and then rip back to create the outnumber; (b) Elite forward pressure. Richmond rated him as 2nd only behind Dan Rioli in F50 pressure acts in 2017.

Lonie has the tricks but, unfortunately - just doesn't have the body mass to stick a tackle regularly. I'd not be surpised if Butler is preferred over Jack Lonie at the outset

Agree with you Saintmatt.

I have both Lonie & Butler playing round 1 as the small forwards with Gresham & Billings the other small forwards rotating through the middle/ wings.

Can they fit Kent or Hind as well?
Richo seemed a big fan of Kent, wonder if Ratten is similar?
You'd say Kent over Hind but personally I prefer Hind.

In order..
Greham, Billings, Lonie, Butler, Hind, Kent with Parker still recovering.

I'm not sure it's Lonie and Butler. Butler yes, Lonie maybe. Jack's main problem is that he can't really play anywhere else other than small forward. Someone like Hind - for example - can play anywhere between half back (where he excelled for Essendon VFL before being drafted), to the wing (where he played his first game in Qld) to half forward/small forward. He's a bigger body than Jack and is a very, very good field kick.

I like Kent more than some others on here but, I see him as behind Butler, Hind and Lonie.

Don't get me wrong - I think Lonie is a better 'natural' footballer than Hind, Butler and Kent but - he's just a small guy playing a game where - in his position - forward pressure (especially dispossession tackling) counts a lot when you're not kicking lots of goals ... a la Milne. Jack gets lots of shots but seems to be the guy that kicks 3.5 more often than 5.3. Turn that around and he becomes a hard to defend weapon.

[Sanctorum]

If King or any other player who is yet to debut or is on the fringe has already told they are lock at this stage of a pre season then the club has been hijacked by circus clowns.

#selectionintegrity
#elitecoaching

I'm don't know SK if letting King know that all things being equal if he comes through the Marsh Cup game against Collingwood in good shape he will be selected that this compromises selection integrity. The poor bugger has spent over 12 months in rehab following knee and ankle injuries, he is rated by many as the best of his draft year, he has been predicted to become a star, in terms of basic HR principles I think it makes perfect sense to let him know that his coaches are backing him to play in Round 1 barring accidents. He is most certainly not in the "fringe" category like any of the others that are yet to debut, and the thought that he has to earn his spot by playing for Sandy would not be good for his morale.

On the wider issue of players to debut for St Kilda in Round 1, much will depend on how they go in the last pre-seasoner. Irrespective of Dan Butler's performance, if Lonie repeats his efforts against Hawthorn he is likely to play, ahead of Dean Kent. Howard will need to prove that he is better than Brown at Full Back. Sean Abbott has done his chances no harm either but unlikely to play ahead of Ryder - what an irony for the Saints to have such ruck luxuries after years of mediocre ruckmen.

Sunday's game will answer all of these questions, including the often discussed one of Geary v any number of good and much younger options....how this plays out will really be a test of selection integrity!

[Nick_BlueNRG]

I can answer it right now SK. Firstly I want to make it clear that I am not having a go at Geary. He has extracted the very best out of himself and for this I admire him. Having said that, IMHO, he is not in our best 22 and should only play in the seniors if we are hit by injuries. Because he is captain though, he will obviously play every week.

[Trev from the Bush]

I can answer it right now SK. Firstly I want to make it clear that I am not having a go at Geary. He has extracted the very best out of himself and for this I admire him. Having said that, IMHO, he is not in our best 22 and should only play in the seniors if we are hit by injuries. Because he is captain though, he will obviously play every week.

That's you honest opinion? We would never have guessed.

[To the top]

The back 6, their defending patterns hence cohesion AND their ability to transition the balk with precision is the requirement

Long has impressed and I would suggest he will be one of that back 6 wearing his No. 21

Then you consider Roberton, Clark and Coffield

Plus Carlisle and Howard

That is 6

Which makes it interesting

There is always the Interchange bench - but maybe mid options there?

[Joffa Burns]

The back 6, their defending patterns hence cohesion AND their ability to transition the balk with precision is the requirement

Long has impressed and I would suggest he will be one of that back 6 wearing his No. 21

Then you consider Roberton, Clark and Coffield

Plus Carlisle and Howard

That is 6

Which makes it interesting

There is always the Interchange bench - but maybe mid options there?

I almost started a thread on the back 6.
Very interesting indeed.

Your back six looks good to me, then you have the following:

Geary - Captain
Wilkie - 6th in B&F
Savage - solid, durable consistent performer
Webster - was a top 12 club player in 2017/18
Paton - has done little wrong in his short career and continues to improve
Battle - big improver last season

I think it will be...

Roberton - Howard -Geary
Savage - Carslile - Long

Clark to play further up the field and Coffiield also in the 22.
If Robbo is fit its hard to see them playing Wilkie as they are similar players, for me its one or the other.

[St Chris]

Roberton is interesting.

On paper, he's one of the first picked, but after the best part of 2 years looking on, I think you want him to get a couple of competitive games under his belt first. I agree that there's one spot for him and Wilkie to share, and as things stand that spot is Wilkie's to lose.

My back 6 for Round one is:
Geary, Howard, Wilkie
Long, Carlisle, Savage

Clark starts on the bench, Coffield plays VFL as a mid and earns a spot there - he's no defender.

Don't know how to fit Battle in - he might get a spot on the pine as a general Mr Fit- It, but I don't like that as a long term development strategy...

[Secret Kiel]

Roberton is interesting.

On paper, he's one of the first picked, but after the best part of 2 years looking on, I think you want him to get a couple of competitive games under his belt first. I agree that there's one spot for him and Wilkie to share, and as things stand that spot is Wilkie's to lose.

My back 6 for Round one is:
Geary, Howard, Wilkie
Long, Carlisle, Savage

Clark starts on the bench, Coffield plays VFL as a mid and earns a spot there - he's no defender.

Don't know how to fit Battle in - he might get a spot on the pine as a general Mr Fit- It, but I don't like that as a long term development strategy...

Agree on Robbo, he'll need some time at Sandy, could be there for a month.

Also I agree on Dougal, he starts at Sandy and I think Battle plays back while the experiment for him to roam into the middle is on. Dougal can't go from being a fringe player over 5 seasons and spending the last 4 weeks of last season in the feeder team to an automatic selection at our club. There would be some disgrungtled players if that happens. Dougal needs a blinder against the Pies to convince me otherwise.

[CURLY]

Roberton is interesting.

On paper, he's one of the first picked, but after the best part of 2 years looking on, I think you want him to get a couple of competitive games under his belt first. I agree that there's one spot for him and Wilkie to share, and as things stand that spot is Wilkie's to lose.

My back 6 for Round one is:
Geary, Howard, Wilkie
Long, Carlisle, Savage

Clark starts on the bench, Coffield plays VFL as a mid and earns a spot there - he's no defender.

Don't know how to fit Battle in - he might get a spot on the pine as a general Mr Fit- It, but I don't like that as a long term development strategy...

Agree on Robbo, he'll need some time at Sandy, could be there for a month.

Also I agree on Dougal, he starts at Sandy and I think Battle plays back while the experiment for him to roam into the middle is on. Dougal can't go from being a fringe player over 5 seasons and spending the last 4 weeks of last season in the feeder team to an automatic selection at our club. There would be some disgrungtled players if that happens. Dougal needs a blinder against the Pies to convince me otherwise.

Howard is a certain starter round one.

[skeptic]

Savage is one that should miss out IMO

If a highly competitive back 6, no room for a player that usually plays ok and never went on to be a consistently really good playing close to potential, ahead of of other players that threaten to do just that

I’d use him as depth or try him somewhere else.

Perhaps with the increased mod depth, Savage could be the guy to get less attention and get off the leash

[saynta]

I can answer it right now SK. Firstly I want to make it clear that I am not having a go at Geary. He has extracted the very best out of himself and for this I admire him. Having said that, IMHO, he is not in our best 22 and should only play in the seniors if we are hit by injuries. Because he is captain though, he will obviously play every week.

That Gears is not in the saints best 22 is simply your view, a view not shared,thank god, by the saints coaches.

[Joffa Burns]

Roberton is interesting.

On paper, he's one of the first picked, but after the best part of 2 years looking on, I think you want him to get a couple of competitive games under his belt first. I agree that there's one spot for him and Wilkie to share, and as things stand that spot is Wilkie's to lose.

My back 6 for Round one is:
Geary, Howard, Wilkie
Long, Carlisle, Savage

Clark starts on the bench, Coffield plays VFL as a mid and earns a spot there - he's no defender.

Don't know how to fit Battle in - he might get a spot on the pine as a general Mr Fit- It, but I don't like that as a long term development strategy...

Agree on Robbo, he'll need some time at Sandy, could be there for a month.

Also I agree on Dougal, he starts at Sandy and I think Battle plays back while the experiment for him to roam into the middle is on. Dougal can't go from being a fringe player over 5 seasons and spending the last 4 weeks of last season in the feeder team to an automatic selection at our club. There would be some disgrungtled players if that happens. Dougal needs a blinder against the Pies to convince me otherwise.

At least get your facts right SK on the fringe player quote.
He's not a Dean Kent who avearges about 8 games a season over 8 or 9 seasons.

He hasn't even been playing at the level for 5 yaers.
Debut 2016 - 6 games then suffered an ACL.
Came back at end 2017 and played 4 games.
20 games in 2018
First 15 games in a row in 2019 before something happened and he was dropped.

That's 35 games in a row in 18/19 including elevation to temporary captain before something caused him to lose favor.

My version of a fringe player is someone who is in and out of the team over a number of years as a senior player. Not a developing kid who suffered an early ACL.

[footynut]

I really hope to see a line up like this:

FB Geary* Howard Wilkie
HB Clark Carlise Long
C Billings Hannebery Hill
HF King Marshall Buttler
FF Lonie Membrey Battle
RU Ryder Steele Gresham
INT Jones, Ross, Coffield Roberton

*However wish it was Paton instead if Geary

This has 6 players debuting for St.Kilda including Howard, Hill, Butler Ryder, Jones and King. And is starting to look like a good mix of youth and experience. With overall decent kicking skills.

[Dis Believer]

I think the OP nailed it. The only real question marks for me are around Lonie/hind/Kent. The way to resolve that is for Lonie to kick another bag this week. If a small forward nails multiple goals per game he becomes a lock.....

[Joffa Burns]

I really hope to see a line up like this:

FB Geary* Howard Wilkie
HB Clark Carlise Long
C Billings Hannebery Hill
HF King Marshall Buttler
FF Lonie Membrey Battle
RU Ryder Steele Gresham
INT Jones, Ross, Coffield Roberton

*However wish it was Paton instead if Geary

This has 6 players debuting for St.Kilda including Howard, Hill, Butler Ryder, Jones and King. And is starting to look like a good mix of youth and experience. With overall decent kicking skills.

Good effort!

Here's mine.

FB Geary* Howard Wilkie/Roberton
HB Savage Carlise Long
C Jones Hannebery Hill
HF Billings King Buttler
FF Lonie Membrey Gresham
RU Marshall Steele Ross
INT Clark, Battle, Coffield Ryder

[Joffa Burns]

I think the OP nailed it. The only real question marks for me are around Lonie/hind/Kent. The way to resolve that is for Lonie to kick another bag this week. If a small forward nails multiple goals per game he becomes a lock.....

Interesting TB, I have Lonie & Butler almost locked in with the query whether they go with an extra small forward but I don't think they will given they have Billings & Gresham whop rotate through the forward half.

Have have Lonie miles ahead of Kent and Hind, I prefer Hind to Kent but feel the coaches would play Kent over Hind.

[Secret Kiel]

Roberton is interesting.

On paper, he's one of the first picked, but after the best part of 2 years looking on, I think you want him to get a couple of competitive games under his belt first. I agree that there's one spot for him and Wilkie to share, and as things stand that spot is Wilkie's to lose.

My back 6 for Round one is:
Geary, Howard, Wilkie
Long, Carlisle, Savage

Clark starts on the bench, Coffield plays VFL as a mid and earns a spot there - he's no defender.

Don't know how to fit Battle in - he might get a spot on the pine as a general Mr Fit- It, but I don't like that as a long term development strategy...

Agree on Robbo, he'll need some time at Sandy, could be there for a month.

Also I agree on Dougal, he starts at Sandy and I think Battle plays back while the experiment for him to roam into the middle is on. Dougal can't go from being a fringe player over 5 seasons and spending the last 4 weeks of last season in the feeder team to an automatic selection at our club. There would be some disgrungtled players if that happens. Dougal needs a blinder against the Pies to convince me otherwise.

At least get your facts right SK on the fringe player quote.
He's not a Dean Kent who avearges about 8 games a season over 8 or 9 seasons.

He hasn't even been playing at the level for 5 yaers.
Debut 2016 - 6 games then suffered an ACL.
Came back at end 2017 and played 4 games.
20 games in 2018
First 15 games in a row in 2019 before something happened and he was dropped.

That's 35 games in a row in 18/19 including elevation to temporary captain before something caused him to lose favor.

My version of a fringe player is someone who is in and out of the team over a number of years as a senior player. Not a developing kid who suffered an early ACL.

45 games over 5 seasons = fringe player.