The Elephant In The Room

[Secret Kiel]

Mc Cartin was the correct call

Hopefully he is on our List in 2021 and showing his undoubted abilities

The List demographics currently are that Ryder is the age he is so the future is Marshall rucking and a need for a key forward to support Membrey and King

What has concerned me more than the Melbourne player is that we have let a far better player than him slip thru our fingers and go to Fremantle

Acres is a potent footballer and exceptionally gifted

God I love your posts, almost pissed my pants laughing at this one.
Its not just the content its the conviction in which you write your opinion and then validate with comments such as "I repeat" or "re-read my post". Hilarious.

My favs in no particular order...
- Jack Steven worth two first round picks from Geelong
- Acres is a match winner
- Geary not in best 22
- Paddy MCCartin was the correct call

Many of us on this site, me included screamed fro Petracca over McCartin.
Mc Cartin the slow, unfit, undersized KPP lacking mobility with the added challenge of type 1 diabetes.

At least he has a try and I reckon he’s not too far off the mark

It’s really easy for people to just regurgitate some of the mainstream media opinions

We all know that Jack Steven at his best is A grade. We all saw the impact of Blakenator in 2017 when Cho used him in the middle ( Freo are laughing their arses off). Cho also wasted what we saw from Paddy in 2016 and didn’t pay enough attention to getting him fit.

If Richo was a tougher coach and demanded more of McCartin and focussed on a different strategy with his development he could have had a different career path and been an important player for us. The club should have had a full time personal fitness coach ( plus someone spying on what he ate and everything he did outside the club). After we resigned him the first timewe had every right to protect our investment. Cho let the young fellow cruise through his time off and he came back every preseason no where near the required level. I think his 2018/2019 preseason was the only one where he was finally AFL standard.

Very easy to be a bully too and poke fun at someone because they don’t go with the majority thinking

Just a plain ignorant and thoroughly misguided belief.

[damienc]

At least he has a try and I reckon he’s not too far off the mark

It’s really easy for people to just regurgitate some of the mainstream media opinions

We all know that Jack Steven at his best is A grade.

Steven was an A grade player at his best.
He is now 29, played what 5-7 games last year due to mental illness.
Was overweight and ordinary.
No inside information here but much speculation he would not have played in 2020 if forced to play at saints.

If you agree with Over The Top that he is worth 2 X first rounders, enjoy your opinion.

I personally don't think there is a 29 YO in the AFL that is currently worth 2 first rounders let alone Jack Steven. But that's the opinion you support so good on you!

We all saw the impact of Blakenator in 2017 when Cho used him in the middle ( Freo are laughing their arses off).

The Blakenator is a butt average AFL player.
I liked him but the hype on here is ridiculous.
Ratten saw him at close quarters for a year and decided to dish him off for half a jam sandwich and a can of coke. Average AFL player at very best.

If Richo was a tougher coach and demanded more of McCartin and focussed on a different strategy with his development he could have had a different career path and been an important player for us. The club should have had a full time personal fitness coach ( plus someone spying on what he ate and everything he did outside the club). After we resigned him the first timewe had every right to protect our investment. Cho let the young fellow cruise through his time off and he came back every preseason no where near the required level. I think his 2018/2019 preseason was the only one where he was finally AFL standard.

Now this is just made up BS.
So you know how Richo treated McCartin and what the fitness program and dietary requirement was for that player.

Purely speculative made up crap by you scollop, I thought you were better than writing crap like that.

Very easy to be a bully too and poke fun at someone because they don’t go with the majority thinking

Not the case at all, poking fun at stupidity has nothing to do with majority thinking.
If I find a post ridiculous I'll comment, just as others have the right to do to my posts if they find them outlandish.

I agree with much of what you say. But I’d like to focus on the bits where we have a difference of opinion. Whatever anyone says about Jack good or bad he wanted to leave the Saints. Had done for some length of time. When a player wants to leave, you have to let them go. Jack’s gone. Let’s move on.

I think you are pretty tough in your views of Acres. But in your defence, he was never an A grade star for us like he promised to be. We had to secure Hill, and Freo wanted a player as well as picks.

Hill for Acres is a pretty good deal I would have thought. If Acres goes on to be a superstar at Freo so be it. I’m pretty sure Hill, barring injury, will be a superstar for us.

So they kind of cancel each other out. Freo get a good player and we get a great one.

[damienc]

I think you know. But on the off chance that you don't, what you said about Petracca. He will be the opposite of underwhelming. We will see who is right.

Why would I eat my words?

"He's been incredibly underwhelming - aside from a R1 praccy match against a ressies team."


Nothing he does or doesn't do from now on will change the above.

Well, for a start he’s about to contradict everything you’ve said about him. Humble pie isn’t too bad a dish when you get used to it.

[BarryGrogan]

I think you know. But on the off chance that you don't, what you said about Petracca. He will be the opposite of underwhelming. We will see who is right.

Why would I eat my words?

"He's been incredibly underwhelming - aside from a R1 praccy match against a ressies team."


Nothing he does or doesn't do from now on will change the above.

Well, for a start he’s about to contradict everything you’ve said about him. Humble pie isn’t too bad a dish when you get used to it.

?

Anything he's 'about to do' doesn't alter history.

Now if I had said 'he'll never be any good' then your odd defence of the man may have some merit.

But I didn't say that.

So your cheerleading for a 24yo guy who has played 90 odd games and hasn't been able to break into the midfield full-time - is clouding your judgement and ability to comprehend what I'm saying.


Question:

Would you take DeGoey, Steele, Maynard, Lever or Petracca?

[fingers]

Mc Cartin was the correct call

Hopefully he is on our List in 2021 and showing his undoubted abilities

The List demographics currently are that Ryder is the age he is so the future is Marshall rucking and a need for a key forward to support Membrey and King

What has concerned me more than the Melbourne player is that we have let a far better player than him slip thru our fingers and go to Fremantle

Acres is a potent footballer and exceptionally gifted

He'll never play again

[saintspremiers]

If Paddy already is not a legal disaster for us if he got on the list again start paying the lawyers big time.

He’s cooked and we need to make settlement and move on.

[asiu]

we need to make settlement and move on.

personally , i agree with that.

but does paddy believe he’s cooked ?

‘n there-in , the mystery

[saintspremiers]

we need to make settlement and move on.

personally , i agree with that.

but does paddy believe he’s cooked ?

‘n there-in , the mystery

He has a year to understand that this is his only option

[saynta]

Paddy will be on someone's list in 2021. You can bet on it.

[Joffa Burns]

Paddy will be on someone's list in 2021. You can bet on it.

I can't see it Saynta.

Would you see a club prepared to take the risk with his concussion history & the diabetes?
If Paddy was looking like a star maybe, but I don't believe he was a certainty to make it as a player.

On the other hand (arguing against myself) the club would only need to Rookie list him so the financial and list risks are fairly low so he may get another shot.

If he were my son I'd be encouraging him to move on and retire given the risk to long term personal health.

[damienc]

Paddy will be on someone's list in 2021. You can bet on it.

This is an incredibly irresponsible comment for you to make.

You should be ashamed for making it.

Clearly, you have not been following the world wide discussion about the effects of concussion on elite athletes.

You clearly read nothing of the latest revelations about Polly Farmer.

Paddy should never play again, Will never play again. He would risking his life to play footy again.

Saying he will be on anyone's list in 2021, let alone St Kilda's is dumb. Really dumb.

[Trev from the Bush]

Paddy will be on someone's list in 2021. You can bet on it.

This is an incredibly irresponsible comment for you to make.

You should be ashamed for making it.

Clearly, you have not been following the world wide discussion about the effects of concussion on elite athletes.

You clearly read nothing of the latest revelations about Polly Farmer.

Paddy should never play again, Will never play again. He would risking his life to play footy again.

Saying he will be on anyone's list in 2021, let alone St Kilda's is dumb. Really dumb.

Sorry Damien, I didn't mean to thank you I meant to quote you. My sausage-sized fingers got in the way.

When you have finished climbing off the soapbox of wokeness you might care to let us all into what secret control you have over Paddy McCartin to make a statement like "should never play again, will never play again". Has Paddy told you this himself or were you suffering from altitude sickness from standing on top of such a tall soapbox? Are you going to superglue yourself to the players race at Moorabbin should be attempt to run out and jog a lap?

Are you medically qualified to berate another forumite for making a reasonable comment? Or is it okay just to read a newspaper article? I wonder if the article's heading read Man in His Eighties Dies of Alzheimer's would have made you react like that. Go easy, mate.

[asiu]

it all depends on Paddys mindset i reckon

... if he’s out to prove himself to himself
he might be driven to overcome
.... he might be driven enough to ignore
what could turn out to be wise advice

big decisions seemingly , looking in from the outside
but if his bliss is playing top level footy

[Vazelos]

CHris Pelchen told me himself that he was shocked they took Mc Cartin..... he had just left the club and was told by Elshaug he nearly drove off the road as they had agreed on Petracca.
Elshaug said he didn’t do well in the interview and Pelchen replied” what is he, an axe murderer?!!!”...
No doubt a mistake, they got too cute at that time with strategy always take the best player available... we got spooked on the Boyd Bulldogs deal thought we would avoid those massive trades...
He is looking like he is going to take the next level and could be something special...
That was 6 years ago we have done more good than bad of late we move on....
Thank God Elshaug is gone!!!

[takeaway]

CHris Pelchen told me himself that he was shocked they took Mc Cartin..... he had just left the club and was told by Elshaug he nearly drove off the road as they had agreed on Petracca.
Elshaug said he didn’t do well in the interview and Pelchen replied” what is he, an axe murderer?!!!”...
No doubt a mistake, they got too cute at that time with strategy always take the best player available... we got spooked on the Boyd Bulldogs deal thought we would avoid those massive trades...
He is looking like he is going to take the next level and could be something special...
That was 6 years ago we have done more good than bad of late we move on....
Thank God Elshaug is gone!!!

I reckon Elshaug wasn't as bad as some people seem to think. Apart from mentioning "good family" too often and failing to predict Paddy's concussions, if you look at recruiting a player who has/will play 50 games for the saints, his hit rate was close to 50% for the years 2011-17, in a period compromised by priority picks for GWS & GC. Compare to the previous period 2005-10, admittedly with generally lower draft picks, the hit rate is a miserly 20%.

I think Paddy was the correct decision at the time, and although probably against the odds, I hope he makes it back, and for the Saints. His style of play would slot in nicely with King and Membrey. Each individual is different, and he would be getting the best advice, certainly better than any on here.

[kosifantutti]

I'm not sure that playing 50 games for a below average team can be used as a measure of success.

[takeaway]

I'm not sure that playing 50 games for a below average team can be used as a measure of success.

True, but it is some form of simple measurement, in an area so full of variables. It certainly indicates more "basic" success than the previous regime.

[Saintmatt]

We would have traded Petracca by now if we took him.

He's been incredibly underwhelming - aside from a R1 praccy match against a ressies team.

Not only that, he's been underwhleming as the 4th-5th string mid and as the 4th string forward.

If he's only laboured in that team - how would he have gone in our team FFS!!!??



I also disagree with the thing about wanting the next Roo. We've seen and heard directly from the transcript when it was locked in that we were taking McCartin - and it had nothing to with wanting the next Roo. That's just not true.

100000% correct. The reason why we took Paddy was for 2 very, very simple reasons: -

1. Petracca had openly told St Kilda he did not want to go to Seaford every day and that if he had to - at the conclusion of his 1st 2 year contract - he would do everything he could to get to Collingwood. He even deliberately stuffed his interview and psych test to enable that outcome.

2. The week before the draft - the Dogs paid $7M for Tom Boyd and that spooked the crap out of every club - the intimation being that you'd better draft and develop your own key forward because if you need one and you don't already have one - then you're going to have to sell the farm to buy one in.

[desertsaint]

and years later we gave away our best key forward to the dogs for peanuts!?

[saynta]

Paddy will be on someone's list in 2021. You can bet on it.

This is an incredibly irresponsible comment for you to make.

You should be ashamed for making it.

Clearly, you have not been following the world wide discussion about the effects of concussion on elite athletes.

You clearly read nothing of the latest revelations about Polly Farmer.

Paddy should never play again, Will never play again. He would risking his life to play footy again.

Saying he will be on anyone's list in 2021, let alone St Kilda's is dumb. Really dumb.

Time will tell if I'm right or if your extremely f****** offensive post has any merit.

[Life Long Saint]

CHris Pelchen told me himself that he was shocked they took Mc Cartin..... he had just left the club and was told by Elshaug he nearly drove off the road as they had agreed on Petracca.
Elshaug said he didn’t do well in the interview and Pelchen replied” what is he, an axe murderer?!!!”...
No doubt a mistake, they got too cute at that time with strategy always take the best player available... we got spooked on the Boyd Bulldogs deal thought we would avoid those massive trades...
He is looking like he is going to take the next level and could be something special...
That was 6 years ago we have done more good than bad of late we move on....
Thank God Elshaug is gone!!!

The theory is that it's easier to trade for a good midfielder than a good key forward.
Fast forward to now and we've traded in Hannebery, Zack Jones, and Brad Hill. Imagine if Paddy hadn't had so many concussions and was a regular at full forward with that midfield delivering the ball to him.
The call was absolutely right at the time and there was no way we could have forseen the amount of concussions he's had.

Petracca has had six years (five really with the ACL in his first season) to become a regular big bodied midfielder. He's struggled - even with the best ruckman in the game giving the midfieler silver service delivery. One pre-season game does not a champion make. He'll be a handy player but he's no Hodge, Roo, or BJ...He's still not even the best player from that draft...I'd still take Jack Steele over him.

[skeptic]

The challenge with McCartin is that in addition to some fairly significant injury concerns... he hasn’t exactly showed the form.

After several years:
- marking was getting worse
- kicking was getting worse
- fitness didn’t seem to improve

He’s not like a super promising youngster that stalled with a wayward attitude.
It’s hard to see why someone would take a punt.

Honest question... if he was a pick 70 on what’s he’s produced so far, would anybody be having this discussion?

[Secret Kiel]

The challenge with McCartin is that in addition to some fairly significant injury concerns... he hasn’t exactly showed the form.

After several years:
- marking was getting worse
- kicking was getting worse
- fitness didn’t seem to improve

He’s not like a super promising youngster that stalled with a wayward attitude.
It’s hard to see why someone would take a punt.

Honest question... if he was a pick 70 on what’s he’s produced so far, would anybody be having this discussion?

For arguments sake, Dougal Howard who went at pick 57 in Paddy's draft and has about the same number of games, arguably shown about the same promise, who would you pick if hypothetically Paddy doesn't have concussion, Paddy or Dougal?

[Simon Templar]

Paddy will be on someone's list in 2021. You can bet on it.

Hope so, Saynta !!!! Ours preferably

[skeptic]

The challenge with McCartin is that in addition to some fairly significant injury concerns... he hasn’t exactly showed the form.

After several years:
- marking was getting worse
- kicking was getting worse
- fitness didn’t seem to improve

He’s not like a super promising youngster that stalled with a wayward attitude.
It’s hard to see why someone would take a punt.

Honest question... if he was a pick 70 on what’s he’s produced so far, would anybody be having this discussion?

For arguments sake, Dougal Howard who went at pick 57 in Paddy's draft and has about the same number of games, arguably shown about the same promise, who would you pick if hypothetically Paddy doesn't have concussion, Paddy or Dougal?

Shown about the same promise?!

Is that meant to be hypothetical?