AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840106Post roskilde »

Sanctorum wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 4:30pm
roskilde wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 3:57pm
I might feel the need to escape from the yawning chasm of indifference I have towards AFLW if I hadn't watched a game for myself and if it weren't for the constant evangelizing by the pro AFLW faction. It's everywhere and it's really annoying. If it's so good let the game speak for itself. If it's a great product people will organically want to get involved. 19 to 14 in that game. 5 goals the entire game.

Honestly I hope they prove me wrong and it is successful but ultimately you're looking at a game whose ultimate ceiling in terms of creating an attractive product is, unfortunately, the particulars of female biology. I'd say their best bet is to allow and actively encourage 'trans' women -- start with that big 'lady' with the blonde hair who regularly smashes women 100 pounds lighter than her at club level -- who are faster and stronger into the league to raise the level of the game but that would be cheeky and downright cynical.
I'm sure there are many who agree with these sentiments roskilde, but I am in no doubt that in years to come you will be proved wrong.

The AFL is totally committed to make AFLW work and succeed and they will back it all the way financially to ensure that it does. Participation by young girls in junior AFL is at record levels and growing fast and this will ensure that in years to come the standard of skills these players reach will be very high.

You only have to look at the way Caitlin Greiser booted a goal after taking a strong mark deep in the pocket, from 55 m no less, to realise that the women have the ability to match it with the men.

It is a mistake to judge the future potential of women's football on current standards, it has to start somewhere and each year it will improve exponentially. The benefit to the AFL industry overall from women playing our game is that broadcast rights will continue to go higher and higher, and thereby secure the future of the game for all genders.
Like I said I hope you're right and I'm wrong but the problems with what you say is, like I said, biology. It will just never, ever be the case in a game like AFL that women will have the ability to match it with the men no matter how well prepared and professional the league. In fact it's true there will also never be a woman player who could play competitively at VFL level and it probably would never be possible for a female even to compete at state U-16 level. (When we were 14 we played the Matiildas regularly for warm up games before the Nationals and whooped them every time despite being the worst state in the country and this is a common occurrence in heaps of sports.)

I agree it can and will get better but it can't get that much better and therefore can't possibly maintain a large fan base. Like the WNBA it will likely continue as an unprofitable sport kept alive by the subsidies that come from the male game. Which, BTW, is totally fine. It's not a knock on the girls it's just the harsh reality of business.

(For someone so indifferent about AFLW I know I'm talking a lot but I'm actually interested in the general issue of females and sport.)


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840107Post samuraisaint »

It was four goals for the entire game - not five. Melbourne kicked 1.8.


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840111Post saynta »

How good is this. Thursday we beat the Hawks. Friday the girls beat flag favorites Melbourne for their first win. Saturday we flog Seth Africa with Agar getting 5 wickets including a hat trick.


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840112Post roskilde »

saynta wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 5:24pm How good is this. Thursday we beat the Hawks. Friday the girls beat flag favorites Melbourne for their first win. Saturday we flog Seth Africa with Agar getting 5 wickets including a hat trick.
I'm surprised by you, Saynta! T20?

I thought you'd be as grumpy about that stupid, Americanzed version of the great game as I am. Awful fluff. Watching it feels like eating Fairy Floss for dinner.


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AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840115Post kosifantutti »

roskilde wrote:
saynta wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 5:24pm How good is this. Thursday we beat the Hawks. Friday the girls beat flag favorites Melbourne for their first win. Saturday we flog Seth Africa with Agar getting 5 wickets including a hat trick.
I'm surprised by you, Saynta! T20?

I thought you'd be as grumpy about that stupid, Americanzed version of the great game as I am. Awful fluff. Watching it feels like eating Fairy Floss for dinner.
Yes, but Agar is a Saints fan.


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840117Post roskilde »

kosifantutti wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 6:10pm
roskilde wrote:
saynta wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 5:24pm How good is this. Thursday we beat the Hawks. Friday the girls beat flag favorites Melbourne for their first win. Saturday we flog Seth Africa with Agar getting 5 wickets including a hat trick.
I'm surprised by you, Saynta! T20?

I thought you'd be as grumpy about that stupid, Americanzed version of the great game as I am. Awful fluff. Watching it feels like eating Fairy Floss for dinner.
Yes, but Agar is a Saints fan.
In that case I retract my statements about T20 and welcome this form of the game and its official and undisputed champion the mighty Agar. :)


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840118Post Sanctorum »

roskilde wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 4:50pm
Sanctorum wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 4:30pm
roskilde wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 3:57pm
I might feel the need to escape from the yawning chasm of indifference I have towards AFLW if I hadn't watched a game for myself and if it weren't for the constant evangelizing by the pro AFLW faction. It's everywhere and it's really annoying. If it's so good let the game speak for itself. If it's a great product people will organically want to get involved. 19 to 14 in that game. 5 goals the entire game.

Honestly I hope they prove me wrong and it is successful but ultimately you're looking at a game whose ultimate ceiling in terms of creating an attractive product is, unfortunately, the particulars of female biology. I'd say their best bet is to allow and actively encourage 'trans' women -- start with that big 'lady' with the blonde hair who regularly smashes women 100 pounds lighter than her at club level -- who are faster and stronger into the league to raise the level of the game but that would be cheeky and downright cynical.
I'm sure there are many who agree with these sentiments roskilde, but I am in no doubt that in years to come you will be proved wrong.

The AFL is totally committed to make AFLW work and succeed and they will back it all the way financially to ensure that it does. Participation by young girls in junior AFL is at record levels and growing fast and this will ensure that in years to come the standard of skills these players reach will be very high.

You only have to look at the way Caitlin Greiser booted a goal after taking a strong mark deep in the pocket, from 55 m no less, to realise that the women have the ability to match it with the men.

It is a mistake to judge the future potential of women's football on current standards, it has to start somewhere and each year it will improve exponentially. The benefit to the AFL industry overall from women playing our game is that broadcast rights will continue to go higher and higher, and thereby secure the future of the game for all genders.
Like I said I hope you're right and I'm wrong but the problems with what you say is, like I said, biology. It will just never, ever be the case in a game like AFL that women will have the ability to match it with the men no matter how well prepared and professional the league. In fact it's true there will also never be a woman player who could play competitively at VFL level and it probably would never be possible for a female even to compete at state U-16 level. (When we were 14 we played the Matiildas regularly for warm up games before the Nationals and whooped them every time despite being the worst state in the country and this is a common occurrence in heaps of sports.)

I agree it can and will get better but it can't get that much better and therefore can't possibly maintain a large fan base. Like the WNBA it will likely continue as an unprofitable sport kept alive by the subsidies that come from the male game. Which, BTW, is totally fine. It's not a knock on the girls it's just the harsh reality of business.

(For someone so indifferent about AFLW I know I'm talking a lot but I'm actually interested in the general issue of females and sport.)
Haha roskilde, you're venturing into dangerous territory bringing in biology to validate your arguments, but maybe your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek :lol:

The basic flaw in your analyis is that you are looking at this from the wrong angle. It has never been, nor has it been the point in any of the other competitive sports, the intention or belief that women will achieve a level where they will compete with men on an equal footing. I can't think of any professional sport where women and men compete against each other whether it's athletics, swimming, cycling, tennis all of which hve women competitions that are elite and draw strong support from spectators and corporate sponsors.

AFLW will get to elite level eventually and will attract strong following, just as all of the other mainline sports do. You can put your money on it!


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840127Post roskilde »

Sanctorum wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 6:32pm
roskilde wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 4:50pm
Sanctorum wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 4:30pm
roskilde wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 3:57pm
I might feel the need to escape from the yawning chasm of indifference I have towards AFLW if I hadn't watched a game for myself and if it weren't for the constant evangelizing by the pro AFLW faction. It's everywhere and it's really annoying. If it's so good let the game speak for itself. If it's a great product people will organically want to get involved. 19 to 14 in that game. 5 goals the entire game.

Honestly I hope they prove me wrong and it is successful but ultimately you're looking at a game whose ultimate ceiling in terms of creating an attractive product is, unfortunately, the particulars of female biology. I'd say their best bet is to allow and actively encourage 'trans' women -- start with that big 'lady' with the blonde hair who regularly smashes women 100 pounds lighter than her at club level -- who are faster and stronger into the league to raise the level of the game but that would be cheeky and downright cynical.
I'm sure there are many who agree with these sentiments roskilde, but I am in no doubt that in years to come you will be proved wrong.

The AFL is totally committed to make AFLW work and succeed and they will back it all the way financially to ensure that it does. Participation by young girls in junior AFL is at record levels and growing fast and this will ensure that in years to come the standard of skills these players reach will be very high.

You only have to look at the way Caitlin Greiser booted a goal after taking a strong mark deep in the pocket, from 55 m no less, to realise that the women have the ability to match it with the men.

It is a mistake to judge the future potential of women's football on current standards, it has to start somewhere and each year it will improve exponentially. The benefit to the AFL industry overall from women playing our game is that broadcast rights will continue to go higher and higher, and thereby secure the future of the game for all genders.
Like I said I hope you're right and I'm wrong but the problems with what you say is, like I said, biology. It will just never, ever be the case in a game like AFL that women will have the ability to match it with the men no matter how well prepared and professional the league. In fact it's true there will also never be a woman player who could play competitively at VFL level and it probably would never be possible for a female even to compete at state U-16 level. (When we were 14 we played the Matiildas regularly for warm up games before the Nationals and whooped them every time despite being the worst state in the country and this is a common occurrence in heaps of sports.)

I agree it can and will get better but it can't get that much better and therefore can't possibly maintain a large fan base. Like the WNBA it will likely continue as an unprofitable sport kept alive by the subsidies that come from the male game. Which, BTW, is totally fine. It's not a knock on the girls it's just the harsh reality of business.

(For someone so indifferent about AFLW I know I'm talking a lot but I'm actually interested in the general issue of females and sport.)
Haha roskilde, you're venturing into dangerous territory bringing in biology to validate your arguments, but maybe your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek :lol:

The basic flaw in your analyis is that you are looking at this from the wrong angle. It has never been, nor has it been the point in any of the other competitive sports, the intention or belief that women will achieve a level where they will compete with men on an equal footing. I can't think of any professional sport where women and men compete against each other whether it's athletics, swimming, cycling, tennis all of which hve women competitions that are elite and draw strong support from spectators and corporate sponsors.

AFLW will get to elite level eventually and will attract strong following, just as all of the other mainline sports do. You can put your money on it!
It's not me who claimed the intention of female sport is to attempt to achieve parity with men. I don't think that at all. What I'm trying to say is that it inevitably can never achieve parity and therefore can never be viable as an independent entity. You yourself are the one who said you've found some proof that women 'have the ability to match it with the men'. It's simply my claim that there is no conceivable reason why anyone would continually support a sport that is played at the level that's below youth state football -- far below for now.

I'd just like it if people were honest about what the AFLW means to them. It seems to me they value it not so much for itself but as a social engineering project and a confirmation of a worldview. People who like the AFLW, just in my observations, like the idea of the AFLW much more than the actual reality.

When it comes to female cycling, swimming and athletics are they actually profitable? Does anyone watch say swimming outside of the Olympics and maybe the Commonwealth games? Who watches the female Tour De France? Female tennis is definitely the exception and is a marketable product but it's a rare exception when it comes to female sport. Also I was under the impression that aside from the very top level people in the sports outside of tennis you listed the corporate sponsorship and money was extremely rare. I think you'll find there's very little money in those sports for anyone in those sports who isn't at the Usain Bolt level and most of those sports and their participants rely on state support.

Which, again, is not a criticism. Some things are just never going to be able to generate the type of appeal it takes for a sport to be self sustaining. You can put money on it that the AFLW won't either.

(PS: Why would you think talking about biology is 'dangerous' or that I'm being tongue in cheek?)
Last edited by roskilde on Sat 22 Feb 2020 7:26pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840128Post saynta »

roskilde wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 5:29pm
saynta wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 5:24pm How good is this. Thursday we beat the Hawks. Friday the girls beat flag favorites Melbourne for their first win. Saturday we flog Seth Africa with Agar getting 5 wickets including a hat trick.
I'm surprised by you, Saynta! T20?

I thought you'd be as grumpy about that stupid, Americanzed version of the great game as I am. Awful fluff. Watching it feels like eating Fairy Floss for dinner.

Ah, the memories. Haven't eaten Fairy Floss for over 50 years, but I think I remember liking it.

But, no I like all three formats of the game, especially when we are winning them.


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840129Post saynta »

kosifantutti wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 6:10pm
roskilde wrote:
saynta wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 5:24pm How good is this. Thursday we beat the Hawks. Friday the girls beat flag favorites Melbourne for their first win. Saturday we flog Seth Africa with Agar getting 5 wickets including a hat trick.
I'm surprised by you, Saynta! T20?

I thought you'd be as grumpy about that stupid, Americanzed version of the great game as I am. Awful fluff. Watching it feels like eating Fairy Floss for dinner.
Yes, but Agar is a Saints fan.
And like me, a De La Salle boy.


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840137Post asiu »

It's simply my claim that there is no conceivable reason why anyone would continually support a sport that is played at the level that's below youth state football -- far below for now.
participation is the reason

chiccy babe desires to play footy
friends ‘n family support her desire
‘n not just on match day

it’s a whole of life reasoning

big kids still playing sport
mum n dad n the little brothers still involved
just not as a taxi service

sure ... the economics of the colosseum
pays to encourage the production line of mums
into sending their kids to (afl) footy training
instead of the less physically combative vibe of soccer

but i digress

outside of chiccy babes network
are punters into social evolution
women participating
encourages and or inspires them to support

i have no ‘in’ to anyone playing in the saints squad
but my sister ‘n daughter will receive memberships
in the mail

‘n thats also participation
i’d like my two to be involved
(sure its for free , for them)

but its an in
i’d never get with the mens side of our club

‘n when i dissolve into dust
obviously i’m betting they’ll continue on
with their memberships out of their own pocket


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840285Post The_Dud »

North kicked 12.4 this week.

That’s equal to or better than 17 of our games last year.


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840289Post asiu »

why is it , that the girls singing the song
is NOT all over the internet


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840299Post St Loxton »

asiu wrote: Sun 23 Feb 2020 11:02pm why is it , that the girls singing the song
is NOT all over the internet
I loved watching them sing it on the ground.
So much passion for it, and they will get better at it.
Surely every StKilda Football Club fan enjoyed that.


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840303Post asiu »

where can i watch it ???

why isn’t it on the Sainters site
why can’t i send it to my daughter

fair dinkum

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but f***ed if you can make it skate


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840307Post Saintmatt »

Life Long Saint wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 4:46pm
Sanctorum wrote: Sat 22 Feb 2020 4:30pm You only have to look at the way Caitlin Greiser booted a goal after taking a strong mark deep in the pocket, from 55 m no less, to realise that the women have the ability to match it with the men.
No. They really don't.
As much as I'd love to see all sport played truly open. No gender competitions. It's just not fair.

There's a good reason that any sport that involves strength, speed, or endurance that men and women don't compete together.
Male mammals are just too much bigger than the females of the same species. And humans are no different.
Of course you will get exceptions here and there. But, by and large, men are just that much bigger and stronger.

Sports that don't require those qualities are mixed...Motor racing, darts, horse racing, etc.

Caitlin Greiser certainly looked the goods taking that mark and booting the goal but she was competing against other women. She'd be totally outstrengthed by any key defender in any mens senior competiton. That's just the nature of the beast.

Women's football is great and absolutely has a place. I'm really happy that we have a team because now I take an interest in it. Young girls interested in footy can now see a pathway to play.
But it should never be directly compared on any level with the AFL competiton. To do so, is an insult to both competitions.
Exactly. Speed and power of the male sub species is off the charts compared to their female counterparts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of ... s_(tennis) :-

1998: Karsten Braasch vs. the Williams sisters
Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open[56] between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager".[57][56] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[58] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2.[56] Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun"[59] and that the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier and put spin on the ball that female players can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.[56]


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840312Post The_Dud »

asiu wrote: Mon 24 Feb 2020 8:34am where can i watch it ???

why isn’t it on the Sainters site
why can’t i send it to my daughter

fair dinkum

you can take a gift horse to the roller derby
but f***ed if you can make it skate
It’s up on the St Kilda Facebook page if you’re on there 👍


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840314Post asiu »

nuh

can u knock it off
‘n stick it here ?


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840323Post Sanctorum »

asiu wrote: Mon 24 Feb 2020 1:08pm nuh

can u knock it off
‘n stick it here ?
There's a bit from The Roar that you might like:

https://www.theroar.com.au/afl/video/st ... n-1064323/


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840324Post kosifantutti »



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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840326Post asiu »

sh1thot lads ... thank you

i’ll weave some magic with those


ta


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840348Post desertsaint »

onya girls, but gee i hope the backs of those jumpers is just a one off promotional thing. they should be in the famous r,b&w.


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840351Post saynta »

desertsaint wrote: Mon 24 Feb 2020 6:18pm onya girls, but gee i hope the backs of those jumpers is just a one off promotional thing. they should be in the famous r,b&w.
Their gay pride jumper. Yeah, so it was a one off.


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840411Post outside66 »

Fantastic result from the girls. Whilst it wasn't high scoring the intensity was through the roof. We were under siege for most of the game and the backline worked together beautifully! G-Train's kick was an absolute pearler, what a win! If we can bring that intensity for 4 qtrs against Freo then I reckon we're a strong chance


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Re: AFLW Saints celebrate first win!!

Post: # 1840442Post freely »

and our second rising star.


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