Afl lovechild

[Secret Kiel]

Why do people think on-field performance changes fixturing?

It doesn't. It's a total myth.


Crowd sizes are what determine fixturing. Nothing else.

Even when we've been dominant on-field, our crowds are still smaller than when the big clubs stink.

So we're never getting better fixtures than them. Forget it.

So are you saying rising up the ladder doesn't get you extra prime time slots like Friday nights and finals? If you get that you've got media exposure to sell. We ain't got that to sell right now. You are sought of right with the crowd size thing, all that does for a club of our size and stature is create income for overheads, like match day costs.

[kosifantutti]

Why do people think on-field performance changes fixturing?

It doesn't. It's a total myth.


Crowd sizes are what determine fixturing. Nothing else.

Even when we've been dominant on-field, our crowds are still smaller than when the big clubs stink.

So we're never getting better fixtures than them. Forget it.

I guess the six Friday night games in both 2010 and 2011 were just a coincidence.


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[BarryGrogan]

Why do people think on-field performance changes fixturing?

It doesn't. It's a total myth.


Crowd sizes are what determine fixturing. Nothing else.

Even when we've been dominant on-field, our crowds are still smaller than when the big clubs stink.

So we're never getting better fixtures than them. Forget it.

So are you saying rising up the ladder doesn't get you extra prime time slots like Friday nights and finals?

Yes.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

[BarryGrogan]

Why do people think on-field performance changes fixturing?

It doesn't. It's a total myth.


Crowd sizes are what determine fixturing. Nothing else.

Even when we've been dominant on-field, our crowds are still smaller than when the big clubs stink.

So we're never getting better fixtures than them. Forget it.

I guess the six Friday night games in both 2010 and 2011 were just a coincidence.


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Same as Carlton's were when they were bottom of the ladder for years in a row.

It's about maximization - not reward.

We don't pull anywhere near the big clubs. Never have. That's why the Bulldogs win a flag and get bounced from the Good Friday game. That's why Essendon have ended up with it.

It's why the big games, are played by the big clubs - no matter what their ladder position is.

[kosifantutti]

Why do people think on-field performance changes fixturing?

It doesn't. It's a total myth.


Crowd sizes are what determine fixturing. Nothing else.

Even when we've been dominant on-field, our crowds are still smaller than when the big clubs stink.

So we're never getting better fixtures than them. Forget it.

I guess the six Friday night games in both 2010 and 2011 were just a coincidence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same as Carlton's were when they were bottom of the ladder for years in a row.

It's about maximization - not reward.

We don't pull anywhere near the big clubs. Never have. That's why the Bulldogs win a flag and get bounced from the Good Friday game. That's why Essendon have ended up with it.

It's why the big games, are played by the big clubs - no matter what their ladder position is.

And Carlton were very publicly given less Friday night games last year or the year before because they were underperforming.
There's an element of big club and there's an element of performance.
We play better we get more Friday night games and less games when people are surprised the round is still going on Sunday evening.

[Nick_BlueNRG]

The AFL have more power than the government, they are one of most successful and profitable businesses in the country. Heaps of cash to splash. We won't overcome their bias. The OS experiment projects are play things for some very small interest groups. You'd also be surprised how much the government fund AFL projects like the OS experiments. It's not about growing our fan base. Period.

I will explain why I think it will work but then you need to explain why you think it won't work (Period as you said).

The China game netted us $1mill from the AFL I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong. We also picked up extra sponsors from just 1 game even though we performed terribly.

New Zealand....If we play 2 games there every year it will be against poor drawing clubs eg. Port, GWS, Freo etc. These games if played at Marvel stadium would make us a loss in terms of $$$$$. Play them in NZ and we would make a minimum of $500k profit. That would come partly from the AFL and NZ government (I'm being conservative as it is likely to be more than $500k). Over time, possibly 20 years I would expect more than 5,000 NZ based members. Kiwis emigrating to Australia would more than likely choose St Kilda to be their team. Kiwis already in Australia that don't follow AFL may decide to have a look at us.


Over to you now Secret Kiel. Please tell us why you don't think it will work!!!!!

You keep banging on about NZ.

They don’t want us!!!

You seem obsessed with the country? Is it the sheep? The way they smile at you or something?!!!

Exactly the response I was expecting from you saintspremiers. You are incapable of having a proper discussion. I have given you my reasons why I believe China and NZ will work for us and all you have given is dribble.

[Nick_BlueNRG]

Firstly on the sponsorship deals; the club sells itself as the vehicle for exposure, but what if you aren't getting much exposure due to ladder postion, well you do something similar to how player contracts are front or rear end loaded. You sell exposure based on short term deals that speculates you will rise up the ladder and be able to provide prime time slots, if you fail to deliver prime time slots becuase you didn't rise up the ladder in the predicted time frame then your deal defaults to a longer time frame on lesser exposure. These types of deals can be done in many different combinations or permentations but you get my drift. The sponsorship market has never been tougher and cashflow from these deals can flatten out over several years. In terms of exposure the OS projects offer very little exposure on thier own, i.e , not much stock is sitting in the warehouse, And what we don't know is how much exposure we will owe to the sponsors who have signed on in the last few years while we have been signed up to the OS R&D project. The OS deals are relying on all sorts of subsidised arrangements including from different levels of government.

Secondly, fans from other countries capable of creating cashflow; so let's use your metric of 5000.

What's an overseas membership going to sell for in OS currency, then minus import tax and duty etc. Bugger all actually. And the games in OS countries are free and heavily subsidized so bugger all cahsflow from game day.

Multiply the numbers and I reckon the annual figure might pay for the person's was wages who works at reception in the admin department.

Probably the biggest income derived is from the export grant from the Fed government...and that is a crooked joke in itself, basically because that is tax dollars.

You have conveniently left out the Kiwis already living here may / will get interested. Also the 100's of kiwis that emigrate to Australia each year will automatically barrack for St Kilda. Anyway, I guess we will have to disagree on this point which is fine.

[AuckSaint]

Based on the last Wellington game we had, I may beg to disagree with Nick on his assumption of a lot of NZ based Saints supporters. When I enquired with the club re a ticket they gave truly royal treatment for me as being from Auckland and making the trip down to see the game (the club hotline team were really helpful I must say). When I went down to the game, I sat at my seat amongst the Saints loyalists and the lady sitting next to me said "oh you're the one who came down from Auckland, I was told you were getting the seat next to me and look out for you!"

Based on this I suggest there aren't a great lot of us over the ditch as this point....

[Secret Kiel]

Why do people think on-field performance changes fixturing?

It doesn't. It's a total myth.


Crowd sizes are what determine fixturing. Nothing else.

Even when we've been dominant on-field, our crowds are still smaller than when the big clubs stink.

So we're never getting better fixtures than them. Forget it.

So are you saying rising up the ladder doesn't get you extra prime time slots like Friday nights and finals?

Yes.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Ok so you're just stirring the pot. I'm pretty sure every final we've ever been in since live TV coverage was possible has been televised. They were fairly big affairs, did you miss them?

I'm also pretty sure from 2005 to about 2011 we enjoyed regular Friday night games.

[Secret Kiel]

Firstly on the sponsorship deals; the club sells itself as the vehicle for exposure, but what if you aren't getting much exposure due to ladder postion, well you do something similar to how player contracts are front or rear end loaded. You sell exposure based on short term deals that speculates you will rise up the ladder and be able to provide prime time slots, if you fail to deliver prime time slots becuase you didn't rise up the ladder in the predicted time frame then your deal defaults to a longer time frame on lesser exposure. These types of deals can be done in many different combinations or permentations but you get my drift. The sponsorship market has never been tougher and cashflow from these deals can flatten out over several years. In terms of exposure the OS projects offer very little exposure on thier own, i.e , not much stock is sitting in the warehouse, And what we don't know is how much exposure we will owe to the sponsors who have signed on in the last few years while we have been signed up to the OS R&D project. The OS deals are relying on all sorts of subsidised arrangements including from different levels of government.

Secondly, fans from other countries capable of creating cashflow; so let's use your metric of 5000.

What's an overseas membership going to sell for in OS currency, then minus import tax and duty etc. Bugger all actually. And the games in OS countries are free and heavily subsidized so bugger all cahsflow from game day.

Multiply the numbers and I reckon the annual figure might pay for the person's was wages who works at reception in the admin department.

Probably the biggest income derived is from the export grant from the Fed government...and that is a crooked joke in itself, basically because that is tax dollars.

You have conveniently left out the Kiwis already living here may / will get interested. Also the 100's of kiwis that emigrate to Australia each year will automatically barrack for St Kilda. Anyway, I guess we will have to disagree on this point which is fine.

Ok

[Sanctorum]

The main question that seems to arise from this discussion is "can St Kilda ever become a Big Club" and become more financially independent, so rely less on handouts from the AFL. Based on current market trends the answer is "not in the short term".

But all is not lost....

The key is continuous and sustained on field success. If St Kilda were to embark on a decade of consistently playing finals, winning a premiership or two along the way, then we would see a bandwagon build beyond our wildest dreams: 100,000 + members, leading national and international commercial brand sponsors jumping on board etc etc, and of course elite players clamouring to pull on the Red White & Black!

Thus the strategy by Lethlean & Co to build a stronger team of players, bringing in Hannebery, Hill, Ryder, Jones, Howard, Butler, and Abbott. In coming years there will be others, until the club finally achieves strong and consistent on field success.

The move back to Moorabbin is also an important factor, highlighting the fact that the Saints "own" The Bay, stretching from St Kilda beach to Portsea and beyond.

Success is the key, the only way that St Kilda will grow and match it with "the Big Boys"

I for one believe in this dream......

[asiu]

financial independence would certainly open up the possibilities to change our mindset

wouldn’t really matter if we were a ‘big’ club
would it ... really

financial solidity lets us then grow
whilst making haste slowly
‘n all the jazz ‘n jizzmo

[Brunswicksainter]

Distributions are made relative to the hand out of feature games in the fixture. As we receive the lowest number of prime time games, we get the highest distribution.