Seb Ross

[CQ SAINT]

Anyway the positive is Seb is attempting to turn his short kick into a significant strength.

It's not going to be a significant strength.

His strengths are that he wins the ball, and can break lines.

Kicking short is never a strength. It's merely a way to facilitate his other strengths, rather than mitigating them by turning the ball over.

His kicking is a weakness. Kicking short is a way to hide it.

Rob Harvey say hi.

"At the start of 1997 before each game skills coach Peter Banfield would write on Harvey's hand "kick long". He tried to eradicate the 20-metre toe-poke to a teammate which may have originated when passing to Tony Lockett in his younger days."

Hopefully, King can add some impact on the end of a well placed 30 metre pass through a 20m lead into the hot zone. King up, Membrey running the other way and Ryder deep with Bitler, Gresh and Lonie lerking, sounds plausible to me.

Twice a game would be a huge improvement from 10 entries and 6 defensive rebounds.

[BarryGrogan]

You said weapon?

Yes. You said "significant strength".

I would have thought that by saying he was going make his short kicks a significant strength, that they would be considered a weapon?

Go back and read it again one more time. You're almost there. Maybe a little more pause and reflect. But let me give you a leg up. The operative word in the sentence is, 'attempting'.

?

The operative word is 'attempting'?

Really?

[Secret Kiel]

Anyway the positive is Seb is attempting to turn his short kick into a significant strength.

It's not going to be a significant strength.

His strengths are that he wins the ball, and can break lines.

Kicking short is never a strength. It's merely a way to facilitate his other strengths, rather than mitigating them by turning the ball over.

His kicking is a weakness. Kicking short is a way to hide it.

Kicking short didn’t seem to hold back players like Robert Harvey, Greg Williams, Sam Mitchell.....

Great point, well argued.

I understand your input one point but disagree.

You refer to 3 brownlow medalists, 250 - 380 game players and absolute champions of the game as an example, much like the analogy that X player is slow by foot but it didn't stop Greg Williams or X is overweight but hey there's Tony Lockett.

Ross is a good AFL player but he isn't of a standard that allows him to carry the bag to the ground for the three players you refer. The reason your 3 examples were able to play to their advantage was they were elite, Williams and Mitchell as good on their non preferred as any player I have seen.

Ross needs to play to his strength which is the short play to advantage and work on his longer kicking which it seems by his own admission he wants to improve.

As per management 101 focus on and exploit what you do exceptionally well and work on a weakness.

I think most are in furious agreement and I don't see any comparison with Sebby to the 3 brownlow medalists being made by Onepoint in the context of legend status, I think it's merely highlighting a characteristic of all good/great players in that they know how to swim between the flags.

Go and watch boys play around the age of 16 to 18 and you will see many who have learnt how to kick the cover off the ball or drill the ball so hard and with laser precision that the kick is so useless becuse nobody can mark it.

Take roo for example, one of his greatest strengths led to one of his weaknesses which was kicking at times. His fatigue levels were higher than most so as as a result his long field kick and shots for goal could be impacted. Roo was a good short field kick much like Harves and for similar reasons, thier main strength was endurance. The example being both players kept between their flags with regards to thier kicking, much like Sebby is learning now.

[BarryGrogan]

Anyway the positive is Seb is attempting to turn his short kick into a significant strength.

It's not going to be a significant strength.

His strengths are that he wins the ball, and can break lines.

Kicking short is never a strength. It's merely a way to facilitate his other strengths, rather than mitigating them by turning the ball over.

His kicking is a weakness. Kicking short is a way to hide it.

Rob Harvey say hi.

"At the start of 1997 before each game skills coach Peter Banfield would write on Harvey's hand "kick long". He tried to eradicate the 20-metre toe-poke to a teammate which may have originated when passing to Tony Lockett in his younger days."

Hopefully, King can add some impact on the end of a well placed 30 metre pass through a 20m lead into the hot zone. King up, Membrey running the other way and Ryder deep with Bitler, Gresh and Lonie lerking, sounds plausible to me.

Twice a game would be a huge improvement from 10 entries and 6 defensive rebounds.

My thoughts are that Ross' Inside 50s will be well down this year, by design.

He'll be more of a defensive mid, which is what he is suited to. He'll off load the ball to better users further up the ground.

I'd doubt that we'll see him spotting up short leads inside 50.

In my opinion.

[BarryGrogan]

Roo was a good short field kick much like Harves and for similar reasons, thier main strength was endurance. The example being both players kept between their flags with regards to thier kicking, much like Sebby is learning now.

"At the start of 1997 before each game skills coach Peter Banfield would write on Harvey's hand "kick long". He tried to eradicate the 20-metre toe-poke to a teammate which may have originated when passing to Tony Lockett in his younger days."

Harvey won 2 Brownlows once he started kicking long. He was an excellent long field kick. Brilliant.

As he got older, he lost the penetration. He didn't revert to short kicking because he was a poor long kick - he reverted to short kicking because he literally couldn't kick more than 40m any more.

Kicking short absolutely held him back. He was still a champion, but nowhere near the player he was in 97-99 when he was kicking the ball long.

[CQ SAINT]

Anyway the positive is Seb is attempting to turn his short kick into a significant strength.

It's not going to be a significant strength.

His strengths are that he wins the ball, and can break lines.

Kicking short is never a strength. It's merely a way to facilitate his other strengths, rather than mitigating them by turning the ball over.

His kicking is a weakness. Kicking short is a way to hide it.

Rob Harvey say hi.

"At the start of 1997 before each game skills coach Peter Banfield would write on Harvey's hand "kick long". He tried to eradicate the 20-metre toe-poke to a teammate which may have originated when passing to Tony Lockett in his younger days."

Hopefully, King can add some impact on the end of a well placed 30 metre pass through a 20m lead into the hot zone. King up, Membrey running the other way and Ryder deep with Bitler, Gresh and Lonie lerking, sounds plausible to me.

Twice a game would be a huge improvement from 10 entries and 6 defensive rebounds.

My thoughts are that Ross' Inside 50s will be well down this year, by design.

He'll be more of a defensive mid, which is what he is suited to. He'll off load the ball to better users further up the ground.

I'd doubt that we'll see him spotting up short leads inside 50.

In my opinion.

I'm confident that opposition teams will be thinking the same thing. The thing that Ross will still exploit is his endurance and even if he does run harder defensively he will still be effective in both centre and stoppage clearances. He is the bull in the midfield mix and he will still come out with the ball and break lines.

[Secret Kiel]

Roo was a good short field kick much like Harves and for similar reasons, thier main strength was endurance. The example being both players kept between their flags with regards to thier kicking, much like Sebby is learning now.

"At the start of 1997 before each game skills coach Peter Banfield would write on Harvey's hand "kick long". He tried to eradicate the 20-metre toe-poke to a teammate which may have originated when passing to Tony Lockett in his younger days."

Harvey won 2 Brownlows once he started kicking long. He was an excellent long field kick. Brilliant.

As he got older, he lost the penetration. He didn't revert to short kicking because he was a poor long kick - he reverted to short kicking because he literally couldn't kick more than 40m any more.

Kicking short absolutely held him back. He was still a champion, but nowhere near the player he was in 97-99 when he was kicking the ball long.

That's interesting because I'm sure I've heard Harves say on more than one occasion he was flatout kicking it over a jam tin, his words.

And the frustration with his short kicks was he had a guy in the goal square that could mark anything so all you had to do was bomb it in so you are right when coahes tried to get him to kick it long to Tony.

Quite the opposite problem our current midfielders have had for choice over the past few seasons and quite the opposite frustration with Sebby and trying to coach him to take the short kick.

[Secret Kiel]

As a side note I find it amusing fans place all of the blame on coaches without knowing the work being done by coaches to modify a players game.

[CQ SAINT]

As a side note I find it amusing fans place all of the blame on coaches without knowing the work being done by coaches to modify a players game.

The criticism is levelled at the coach because the player is rewarded with B&F's for running hard and touching the ball a lot. No need to punish him but dont farking reward him if he is failing to improve or take instruction on modifying his game.
Having said that, Seb, an average player has certainly worked hard in a lot of areas to improve. Maybe the messages on The game plan and where and how long to kick where to blame.

[Secret Kiel]

As a side note I find it amusing fans place all of the blame on coaches without knowing the work being done by coaches to modify a players game.

The criticism is levelled at the coach because the player is rewarded with B&F's for running hard and touching the ball a lot. No need to punish him but dont farking reward him if he is failing to improve or take instruction on modifying his game.
Having said that, Seb, an average player has certainly worked hard in a lot of areas to improve. Maybe the messages on The game plan and where and how long to kick where to blame.

So I take it you believe Seb's B&F was not earnt or deserved but rather gifted by the coach. Interesting.
So who was robbed of the B&F in your mind.

[saynta]

Anyway the positive is Seb is attempting to turn his short kick into a significant strength.

It's not going to be a significant strength.

His strengths are that he wins the ball, and can break lines.

Kicking short is never a strength. It's merely a way to facilitate his other strengths, rather than mitigating them by turning the ball over.

His kicking is a weakness. Kicking short is a way to hide it.

Rob Harvey say hi.

"At the start of 1997 before each game skills coach Peter Banfield would write on Harvey's hand "kick long". He tried to eradicate the 20-metre toe-poke to a teammate which may have originated when passing to Tony Lockett in his younger days."

Hopefully, King can add some impact on the end of a well placed 30 metre pass through a 20m lead into the hot zone. King up, Membrey running the other way and Ryder deep with Bitler, Gresh and Lonie lerking, sounds plausible to me.

Twice a game would be a huge improvement from 10 entries and 6 defensive rebounds.

Bitler???? And wtf is 'lerking'?

[BarryGrogan]

As a side note I find it amusing fans place all of the blame on coaches without knowing the work being done by coaches to modify a players game.

The criticism is levelled at the coach because the player is rewarded with B&F's for running hard and touching the ball a lot. No need to punish him but dont farking reward him if he is failing to improve or take instruction on modifying his game.
Having said that, Seb, an average player has certainly worked hard in a lot of areas to improve. Maybe the messages on The game plan and where and how long to kick where to blame.

So I take it you believe Seb's B&F was not earnt or deserved but rather gifted by the coach. Interesting.
So who was robbed of the B&F in your mind.

I think you've missed the point.

The point is that Seb was clearly doing what the coach wanted him to. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have been given votes every week.

So the bombing and shanking to the opposition clearly wasn't being addressed by Cho. If Cho wanted him to change and to stop doing it, he wouldn't have been giving him votes. Or at least he shouldn't have.

[saynta]

Anyway the positive is Seb is attempting to turn his short kick into a significant strength.

It's not going to be a significant strength.

His strengths are that he wins the ball, and can break lines.

Kicking short is never a strength. It's merely a way to facilitate his other strengths, rather than mitigating them by turning the ball over.

His kicking is a weakness. Kicking short is a way to hide it.

Kicking short didn’t seem to hold back players like Robert Harvey, Greg Williams, Sam Mitchell.....

Great point, well argued.

I understand your input one point but disagree.

You refer to 3 brownlow medalists, 250 - 380 game players and absolute champions of the game as an example, much like the analogy that X player is slow by foot but it didn't stop Greg Williams or X is overweight but hey there's Tony Lockett.

Ross is a good AFL player but he isn't of a standard that allows him to carry the bag to the ground for the three players you refer. The reason your 3 examples were able to play to their advantage was they were elite, Williams and Mitchell as good on their non preferred as any player I have seen.

Ross needs to play to his strength which is the short play to advantage and work on his longer kicking which it seems by his own admission he wants to improve.

As per management 101 focus on and exploit what you do exceptionally well and work on a weakness.

I think most are in furious agreement and I don't see any comparison with Sebby to the 3 brownlow medalists being made by Onepoint in the context of legend status, I think it's merely highlighting a characteristic of all good/great players in that they know how to swim between the flags.

Go and watch boys play around the age of 16 to 18 and you will see many who have learnt how to kick the cover off the ball or drill the ball so hard and with laser precision that the kick is so useless becuse nobody can mark it.

Take roo for example, one of his greatest strengths led to one of his weaknesses which was kicking at times. His fatigue levels were higher than most so as as a result his long field kick and shots for goal could be impacted. Roo was a good short field kick much like Harves and for similar reasons, thier main strength was endurance. The example being both players kept between their flags with regards to thier kicking, much like Sebby is learning now.

Good post.

[saynta]

As a side note I find it amusing fans place all of the blame on coaches without knowing the work being done by coaches to modify a players game.

The criticism is levelled at the coach because the player is rewarded with B&F's for running hard and touching the ball a lot. No need to punish him but dont farking reward him if he is failing to improve or take instruction on modifying his game.
Having said that, Seb, an average player has certainly worked hard in a lot of areas to improve. Maybe the messages on The game plan and where and how long to kick where to blame.

So I take it you believe Seb's B&F was not earnt or deserved but rather gifted by the coach. Interesting.
So who was robbed of the B&F in your mind.

Two B and F"s and one runner up in the past three years proves the stupididity of certain posts.

I think Seb's biggest detractors are those who wrote him off in his earlier years or called for him to be traded.

They now downplay his achievements and skills to try and justify their earlier held opinions. They can't admit, even to themselves, that they were dead wrong.

[Secret Kiel]

As a side note I find it amusing fans place all of the blame on coaches without knowing the work being done by coaches to modify a players game.

The criticism is levelled at the coach because the player is rewarded with B&F's for running hard and touching the ball a lot. No need to punish him but dont farking reward him if he is failing to improve or take instruction on modifying his game.
Having said that, Seb, an average player has certainly worked hard in a lot of areas to improve. Maybe the messages on The game plan and where and how long to kick where to blame.

So I take it you believe Seb's B&F was not earnt or deserved but rather gifted by the coach. Interesting.
So who was robbed of the B&F in your mind.

I think you've missed the point.

The point is that Seb was clearly doing what the coach wanted him to. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have been given votes every week.

So the bombing and shanking to the opposition clearly wasn't being addressed by Cho. If Cho wanted him to change and to stop doing it, he wouldn't have been giving him votes. Or at least he shouldn't have.

Clearly? You seen so convinced yet totally oblivious to how the voting system works...or at least it seems that way.

[Secret Kiel]

As a side note I find it amusing fans place all of the blame on coaches without knowing the work being done by coaches to modify a players game.

The criticism is levelled at the coach because the player is rewarded with B&F's for running hard and touching the ball a lot. No need to punish him but dont farking reward him if he is failing to improve or take instruction on modifying his game.
Having said that, Seb, an average player has certainly worked hard in a lot of areas to improve. Maybe the messages on The game plan and where and how long to kick where to blame.

So I take it you believe Seb's B&F was not earnt or deserved but rather gifted by the coach. Interesting.
So who was robbed of the B&F in your mind.

Two B and F"s and one runner up in the past three years proves the stupididity of certain posts.

I think Seb's biggest detractors are those who wrote him off in his earlier years or called for him to be traded.

They now downplay his achievements and skills to try and justify their earlier held opinions. They can't admit, even to themselves, that they were dead wrong.

I think the biggest issue the internet and social media has is people don't take the time to read then comprehend, and then make considered input without an emotive bias. Take the article on Sebby for example, some posters interpreted Sebby as admitting he was a poor kick. He absolutely didn't say that, in fact he said he was a good short kick and outlined the technical issues with his long kick.

So I think you are right Saynta, some poster are justifying thier own mindsets.

[CQ SAINT]

As a side note I find it amusing fans place all of the blame on coaches without knowing the work being done by coaches to modify a players game.

The criticism is levelled at the coach because the player is rewarded with B&F's for running hard and touching the ball a lot. No need to punish him but dont farking reward him if he is failing to improve or take instruction on modifying his game.
Having said that, Seb, an average player has certainly worked hard in a lot of areas to improve. Maybe the messages on The game plan and where and how long to kick where to blame.

So I take it you believe Seb's B&F was not earnt or deserved but rather gifted by the coach. Interesting.
So who was robbed of the B&F in your mind.

Thats an interesting twist.

[CQ SAINT]

As a side note I find it amusing fans place all of the blame on coaches without knowing the work being done by coaches to modify a players game.

The criticism is levelled at the coach because the player is rewarded with B&F's for running hard and touching the ball a lot. No need to punish him but dont farking reward him if he is failing to improve or take instruction on modifying his game.
Having said that, Seb, an average player has certainly worked hard in a lot of areas to improve. Maybe the messages on The game plan and where and how long to kick where to blame.

So I take it you believe Seb's B&F was not earnt or deserved but rather gifted by the coach. Interesting.
So who was robbed of the B&F in your mind.

I think you've missed the point.

The point is that Seb was clearly doing what the coach wanted him to. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have been given votes every week.

So the bombing and shanking to the opposition clearly wasn't being addressed by Cho. If Cho wanted him to change and to stop doing it, he wouldn't have been giving him votes. Or at least he shouldn't have.

There is a distinct difference between missing the point and stepping directly around it.

[CQ SAINT]

Anyway the positive is Seb is attempting to turn his short kick into a significant strength.

It's not going to be a significant strength.

His strengths are that he wins the ball, and can break lines.

Kicking short is never a strength. It's merely a way to facilitate his other strengths, rather than mitigating them by turning the ball over.

His kicking is a weakness. Kicking short is a way to hide it.

Rob Harvey say hi.

"At the start of 1997 before each game skills coach Peter Banfield would write on Harvey's hand "kick long". He tried to eradicate the 20-metre toe-poke to a teammate which may have originated when passing to Tony Lockett in his younger days."

Hopefully, King can add some impact on the end of a well placed 30 metre pass through a 20m lead into the hot zone. King up, Membrey running the other way and Ryder deep with Bitler, Gresh and Lonie lerking, sounds plausible to me.

Twice a game would be a huge improvement from 10 entries and 6 defensive rebounds.

Bitler???? And wtf is 'lerking'?

Geez, I made a mistake. What's the chances of that? Perhaps you can provide some media clips and %'s for us.

[BarryGrogan]

Take the article on Sebby for example, some posters interpreted Sebby as admitting he was a poor kick. He absolutely didn't say that, in fact he said he was a good short kick and outlined the technical issues with his long kick.

So I think you are right Saynta, some poster are justifying thier own mindsets.

That's not really true.

I stated a while ago that in the context of being an elite offensive midfielder, Ross can't kick.

The article literally said the same thing. He can't kick well enough to be damaging by foot, so he's going to focus on getting it to blokes that can.


As I said - he's not an elite offensive mid, cause he can't kick. Elite offensive mids need to be able to kick both short, and long. He's literally admitted that he can't do both.


We knew this. For some reason, Cho didn't. He kept playing him as an offensive mid which was counter productive to the team.

As I also said, Ross was an elite defensive mid. Fortunately, it looks as though he'll be back in that role this season.

[CQ SAINT]

As a side note I find it amusing fans place all of the blame on coaches without knowing the work being done by coaches to modify a players game.

The criticism is levelled at the coach because the player is rewarded with B&F's for running hard and touching the ball a lot. No need to punish him but dont farking reward him if he is failing to improve or take instruction on modifying his game.
Having said that, Seb, an average player has certainly worked hard in a lot of areas to improve. Maybe the messages on The game plan and where and how long to kick where to blame.

So I take it you believe Seb's B&F was not earnt or deserved but rather gifted by the coach. Interesting.
So who was robbed of the B&F in your mind.

Last year Marshall was robbed. To Ross's credit, he finished strongly and clearly had a new direction to follow after the coach was changed. He had a quiet patch in votes but obviously came good when the new message sunk in.

[CQ SAINT]

I wasn’t happy with my long kicking. Last year I tended to kick it off my knee or shin a little bit because I’m just trying to boot the cover off it,” the Saints midfielder said. (I was told to kick it long, so we could try and trap it in and just keep blazing away)

“Halfway through last year I was just having an issue with my inside 50 kicking and it was all to do with the longer entries. (I couldn't do what the coach was asking)

“I sat down with Brendon Lade, we worked out a way I could be more efficient for the team by playing within my realms. (Let's get rid of Richo) I’m a good short kick and it’s beneficial for the team a lot of the time to keep the ball in possession. (Rather than this kick and hope s*** we'd been instructed to dish up for years now)

“You’ve just got to learn to work with what you’ve got and be able to manipulate certain situations to your advantage. (I'm not a natural footballer but I'm a great athlete) Obviously, I’m just trying to hit the short option and swim between my flags."(It will be a relief to actually think about what I'm doing rather than play relentlessly to a plan my Grandma could defend).

[Secret Kiel]

Take the article on Sebby for example, some posters interpreted Sebby as admitting he was a poor kick. He absolutely didn't say that, in fact he said he was a good short kick and outlined the technical issues with his long kick.

So I think you are right Saynta, some poster are justifying thier own mindsets.

That's not really true.

I stated a while ago that in the context of being an elite offensive midfielder, Ross can't kick.

The article literally said the same thing. He can't kick well enough to be damaging by foot, so he's going to focus on getting it to blokes that can.


As I said - he's not an elite offensive mid, cause he can't kick. Elite offensive mids need to be able to kick both short, and long. He's literally admitted that he can't do both.


We knew this. For some reason, Cho didn't. He kept playing him as an offensive mid which was counter productive to the team.

As I also said, Ross was an elite defensive mid. Fortunately, it looks as though he'll be back in that role this season.

Absolutley it is, the more you post on the matter the more you illustrate my point.

[BarryGrogan]

Absolutley it is, the more you post on the matter the more you illustrate my point.

I don't think you have a point.

You just seem to like to hang s*** on other posters.

[Secret Kiel]

Take the article on Sebby for example, some posters interpreted Sebby as admitting he was a poor kick. He absolutely didn't say that, in fact he said he was a good short kick and outlined the technical issues with his long kick.

So I think you are right Saynta, some poster are justifying thier own mindsets.

That's not really true.

I stated a while ago that in the context of being an elite offensive midfielder, Ross can't kick.

The article literally said the same thing. He can't kick well enough to be damaging by foot, so he's going to focus on getting it to blokes that can.


As I said - he's not an elite offensive mid, cause he can't kick. Elite offensive mids need to be able to kick both short, and long. He's literally admitted that he can't do both.


We knew this. For some reason, Cho didn't. He kept playing him as an offensive mid which was counter productive to the team.

As I also said, Ross was an elite defensive mid. Fortunately, it looks as though he'll be back in that role this season.

Absolutley it is, the more you post on the matter the more you illustrate my point.

I don't think you have a point.

You just seem to like to hang s*** on other posters.

I think I've presented many factual points today that highlight how you misinterpreted Sebby's comments. You have a habit of doing that and you only have to go to the discussion we had on Google to know you run your mouth off half cocked like the exclusive holder of knowledge, and when subsequently found to be wrong you go all Donald Trump like.

The fact of the matter today is you are not acknowledging that Sebby says in the article he is a good short kick whereas you would have everyone believe your version which is just plain alternate facts. That's my point, it's factual and non distorted.