Seb Ross

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The_Dud
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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837230Post The_Dud »

Sanctorum wrote: Sat 11 Jan 2020 6:54pm This discussion contains a lot of tedious to-ing and fro-ing which is to little avail.

As I stated early on in this thread, I am convinced that under Brett Ratten Seb Ross will break-out to elite level this year, it is simply a matter of fine tuning his decision making and disposal skills, and if that turns out to be so then he's a real show for AA selection and the Brownlow. To suggest that Seb Ross is a dud player and unworthy of the B&F awards is an insult to the coaching panel, love 'em or hate 'em, they are in possession of all the facts and stats and know best, irrespective of what we armchair experts may think...
The only person calling him a dud is BM in the middle of one of his temper tantrums.

A B-grader isn’t a dud. Just means he’s not up with the elite mids, which is a fair statement.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837231Post Trev from the Bush »

CQ SAINT wrote: Sat 11 Jan 2020 3:25pm
BarryGrogan wrote: Sat 11 Jan 2020 2:21pm I think Seb will find himself in the 'defensive mid' role this year.
Id tend to agree.
I tend too think that you two agreeing with each other identifies a pair of knobs! But what would I know? :shock:
.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837233Post CQ SAINT »

Trev from the Bush wrote: Sat 11 Jan 2020 8:07pm
CQ SAINT wrote: Sat 11 Jan 2020 3:25pm
BarryGrogan wrote: Sat 11 Jan 2020 2:21pm I think Seb will find himself in the 'defensive mid' role this year.
Id tend to agree.
I tend too think that you two agreeing with each other identifies a pair of knobs! But what would I know? :shock:
.
Indicates you might have seen a few knobs and know your stuff. 🤣


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837235Post The Barometer »

The_Dud wrote: Sat 11 Jan 2020 8:01pm
Sanctorum wrote: Sat 11 Jan 2020 6:54pm This discussion contains a lot of tedious to-ing and fro-ing which is to little avail.

As I stated early on in this thread, I am convinced that under Brett Ratten Seb Ross will break-out to elite level this year, it is simply a matter of fine tuning his decision making and disposal skills, and if that turns out to be so then he's a real show for AA selection and the Brownlow. To suggest that Seb Ross is a dud player and unworthy of the B&F awards is an insult to the coaching panel, love 'em or hate 'em, they are in possession of all the facts and stats and know best, irrespective of what we armchair experts may think...
The only person calling him a dud is BM in the middle of one of his temper tantrums.

A B-grader isn’t a dud. Just means he’s not up with the elite mids, which is a fair statement.
Exactly. Basically sums it up except you forgot the bit about being a bellend and everyone apart from BM being morons.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837242Post B.M »

I’m not the one trying my best to down play one of our top players (best player on performance)

That would be ridiculous

And don’t back peddle either, that would be as weak as piss. You don’t rate Seb highly, that’s the truth... and it’s the opinion of an uneducated


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837245Post The_Dud »

B.M wrote: Sat 11 Jan 2020 11:06pm I’m not the one trying my best to down play one of our top players (best player on performance)

That would be ridiculous

And don’t back peddle either, that would be as weak as piss. You don’t rate Seb highly, that’s the truth... and it’s the opinion of an uneducated
Again, creating imaginary arguments because you have no actual response to the two clear points I made. Talk about weak as piss...

Next you’ll be telling me how ‘educated’ you are because of all the Park footy games you’ve played :lol:


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837252Post BarryGrogan »

B.M wrote: Sat 11 Jan 2020 11:06pm I’m not the one trying my best to down play one of our top players (best player on performance)
Isn't that completely irrelevant when you haven't played finals in 8 years?

Whether he's one of our best or not, doesn't really mean s*** when debating whether he's any good or not.

Our midfield gets belted every week, we don't win games and can't score. Being 'one of our best' isn't really something to hang your hat on.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837255Post Secret Kiel »

Does anyone else think Seb could make a good captain. The club will be making an announcement about who will be the captain in 2020 very soon you would think and it is going to be Gears again you would think, but could there be a surprise decision to change and possibly choose Seb?


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837257Post The Linton Street Flash »

Sanctorum wrote: Sat 11 Jan 2020 6:54pm This discussion contains a lot of tedious to-ing and fro-ing which is to little avail.

As I stated early on in this thread, I am convinced that under Brett Ratten Seb Ross will break-out to elite level this year, it is simply a matter of fine tuning his decision making and disposal skills, and if that turns out to be so then he's a real show for AA selection and the Brownlow. To suggest that Seb Ross is a dud player and unworthy of the B&F awards is an insult to the coaching panel, love 'em or hate 'em, they are in possession of all the facts and stats and know best, irrespective of what we armchair experts may think...
Oh FFS, I have not read anything here that suggests Seb is a DUD PLAYER.

He's a popular player who obviously gives his all, but he currently plays with many limitations that stop many from classing him as elite.

Seb is courageous, solid, committed and hard working, but he doesn't kick goals and he regularly coughs it up when he shouldn't - you can pull out as many stats as you like but that is the way many see it, because that is REALITY.

Seb is obviously fully committed to improving his game, and he is still relatively young, so it is certainly possible that he may become the player that we hope he'll be, but the fact is he is NOT YET THAT GUY.

His cousin, at probably around the same age, suddenly leapt from GOP to one of the best in his team (perhaps the competition), so we wait with baited breath for Seb to do the same - it can and does happen.

The facts are that Seb has been a half decent player in a very ordinary team, but like most on our list over the last decade, he has deficiencies up to his eyeballs.

If Seb suddenly leaps from good to great, every St Kilda supporter will be delighted, and one would imagine that the team's performance will rise accordingly.

Because we are not indulging is some ridiculous fantasy that he is the next Robert Harvey, does not mean we think he's a dud.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837268Post B.M »

That’s how ‘many’ see it?

Except how the coaches, and experts see it

Every player has limitations and strengths. I can deliver as many stats as I like, because they support my argument.
Stats are meaningless I suppose if they don’t back your opinion?!

And as far as getting belted ‘every week’

We got belted most weeks in 2018, but in 16/17/19 we were more than competitive (winning around half the games with injury an riddled team)

I am not the one proclaiming to be an expert here, I’m simply agreeing with the experts and calling out ignorants for opposing arguments based on ‘their perceptions’

Do I agree with opinions of those who have no idea, or those who have an idea?!


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837269Post B.M »

Perhaps dud, you will be telling me how average our best player is because of you immense knowledge of the game, because obviously you know more than AFL coaches and officials...

Have a good read

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/milesto ... games/amp/

And I played State League footy champ, and A Grade VAFA, and EFL Div 1
Not sure what you’ve ever done, but that ain’t Park footy.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837270Post Secret Kiel »

Actually the reference to Seb's cousin is a good one because I remember when he was attracting very similar discussion. And I think Garry Abblet Jr was also in a similar position around 2006.

Is part of it the fact he's now at an age and he's been in the system long enough to now show if he has more gears.

Agree if he does have more gears then it can only be fantastic for the team and its chances of becoming a sustained finals team.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837271Post Ghost Like »

As one of the ignorants, bellends (you are right SK, should be used more), knobs, uneducated, ill informed, naive or any other declaration of love for a fellow sainter, I like Seb and I've said before that when he's our 4th or 5th best mid we will have a Top 4 side.

He deserved those B&Fs, just wish Marshall had tied with him, he also deserved one for 2019. I'll further research the merits of Brownlow votes, especially that Flower & Matthews never won one but other bellends did.

I also get frustrated by things I see Seb do on the field but understand that may not be all is fault, for example, holding on to the ball too long, then panic kicking. Perhaps he was slow in pulling the trigger or simply had no one moving up ahead???

FWIW, I see Seb as a more consistent footballer than most, including Steven, so that is bankable IMO. A grade, no...B+, yes.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837273Post The_Dud »

B.M wrote: Sun 12 Jan 2020 12:35pm
I am not the one proclaiming to be an expert here, I’m simply agreeing with the experts and calling out ignorants for opposing arguments based on ‘their perceptions’

Do I agree with opinions of those who have no idea, or those who have an idea?!
Still waiting for you to counter the two clear points I raised, no surprise you’re doing your best to dance around them.

And Mr Evidence, I’m sure you’ll be able to produce some showing these experts (non park footy) who proclaim Seb an A-grader.

All the ratings I’ve seen over the last few seasons have had Steven as our only A-grader, and maybe Carlisle.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837276Post CQ SAINT »

B.M wrote: Sun 12 Jan 2020 12:49pm Perhaps dud, you will be telling me how average our best player is because of you immense knowledge of the game, because obviously you know more than AFL coaches and officials...

Have a good read

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/milesto ... games/amp/

And I played State League footy champ, and A Grade VAFA, and EFL Div 1
Not sure what you’ve ever done, but that ain’t Park footy.
Where has Ross been rated as A grade or AA? That's the crux of your defence to the opinion he is just B grade. Your stats even leave you short.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837286Post BarryGrogan »

B.M wrote: Sun 12 Jan 2020 12:49pm
And I played State League footy champ, and A Grade VAFA, and EFL Div 1
Not sure what you’ve ever done, but that ain’t Park footy.
Hahahaha!

Yes it is. That's exactly what it is.


VFL, WAFL and SANFL aren't. The ammos and EFL are though. They're the very definition of park footy!


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837289Post CQ SAINT »

The Coaches Association Player of the year is a very balanced view of each game by both coaching panels. Interestingly, Seb doesn't do as well in those polls. Not so many coaches willing to back him in with votes when asked who they thought had an outstanding impact on the game.
Im imagining the conversation goes like this, 'Seb got his 28 @ 72% but......


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837293Post saintsRrising »

Secret Kiel wrote: Sun 12 Jan 2020 12:59pm Is part of it the fact he's now at an age and he's been in the system long enough to now show if he has more gears.

At 26yr 8mths of age it is probably unlikely that he has more gears.

However with Hill and Jones to now link with we may well see a more effective Ross in 2020.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837295Post The_Dud »

CQ SAINT wrote: Sun 12 Jan 2020 3:40pm The Coaches Association Player of the year is a very balanced view of each game by both coaching panels. Interestingly, Seb doesn't do as well in those polls. Not so many coaches willing to back him in with votes when asked who they thought had an outstanding impact on the game.
Im imagining the conversation goes like this, 'Seb got his 28 @ 72% but......
Yep, looking at the coaches votes this year...

36 - Billings
35 - Ross
34 - Gresh
25 - Marshall
22 - Membrey
21 - Dunstan (pretty good for a “serial underperformer”)
21 - Bruce

And for context the top voters in the award were...

107 - Bont
90 - Danger
88 - Fyfe

They’re probably what you call A-graders...

So it seems like the coaches didn’t love Seb as much as BM is trying to BS to us about. Will just be interesting to see how he tries to explain away the relevance of the same people he’s been using to justify his opinion :lol:


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837297Post saynta »

So saying the coaches didn't love Ross is also stating they didn't love Billings or Gresham with all three polling around the same amount of votes.

This is clearly bulls***.

And they must hate Marshall, Membrey and Dunstan if this line of crap is to be believed.

Also provides the reason Bruce was traded as the coaches must have absolutely despised him

f****** post of the year. NOT.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837298Post The_Dud »

saynta wrote: Sun 12 Jan 2020 5:12pm So saying the coaches didn't love Ross is also stating they didn't love Billings or Gresham with all three polling around the same amount of votes.

This is clearly bulls***.

And they must hate Marshall, Membrey and Dunstan if this line of crap is to be believed.

Also provides the reason Bruce was traded as the coaches must have absolutely despised him

f****** post of the year. NOT.
It’s pretty simple, none of them are A-graders.

But Marshall, Billings and Gresh have shown they’re probably ready to step up this season.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837301Post Joffa Burns »

The_Dud wrote: Sun 12 Jan 2020 4:53pm
CQ SAINT wrote: Sun 12 Jan 2020 3:40pm The Coaches Association Player of the year is a very balanced view of each game by both coaching panels. Interestingly, Seb doesn't do as well in those polls. Not so many coaches willing to back him in with votes when asked who they thought had an outstanding impact on the game.
Im imagining the conversation goes like this, 'Seb got his 28 @ 72% but......
Yep, looking at the coaches votes this year...

36 - Billings
35 - Ross
34 - Gresh
25 - Marshall
22 - Membrey
21 - Dunstan (pretty good for a “serial underperformer”)
21 - Bruce

And for context the top voters in the award were...

107 - Bont
90 - Danger
88 - Fyfe

They’re probably what you call A-graders...

So it seems like the coaches didn’t love Seb as much as BM is trying to BS to us about. Will just be interesting to see how he tries to explain away the relevance of the same people he’s been using to justify his opinion :lol:
To be pedantic I rate Elite - A grade - B grade etc with examples (not including aging Pendlebury, Ablett and Selwood) and just mids.

Elite: Bont, Danger, Fyfe, Martin, Grundy (?)
A +: Zorko, Whitfield, Cripps, Neale, J Kelly, Gawn, Treloar
A grade: T. Kelly, McCrae, Yeo, Boak, Cotchin

I would have Ross just below the A grade group at B+ with Billings & Gresham not far behind.
If he keeps improving Marshall I think will be A grade at the end of next season.

Interesting question?
Is Ross better than Dylan Shiel?
We apparently offered 2 x first round picks for Shiel and a ton of cash.


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837302Post Nick_BlueNRG »

Joffa Burns wrote: Sun 12 Jan 2020 5:53pm
The_Dud wrote: Sun 12 Jan 2020 4:53pm
CQ SAINT wrote: Sun 12 Jan 2020 3:40pm The Coaches Association Player of the year is a very balanced view of each game by both coaching panels. Interestingly, Seb doesn't do as well in those polls. Not so many coaches willing to back him in with votes when asked who they thought had an outstanding impact on the game.
Im imagining the conversation goes like this, 'Seb got his 28 @ 72% but......
Yep, looking at the coaches votes this year...

36 - Billings
35 - Ross
34 - Gresh
25 - Marshall
22 - Membrey
21 - Dunstan (pretty good for a “serial underperformer”)
21 - Bruce

And for context the top voters in the award were...

107 - Bont
90 - Danger
88 - Fyfe

They’re probably what you call A-graders...

So it seems like the coaches didn’t love Seb as much as BM is trying to BS to us about. Will just be interesting to see how he tries to explain away the relevance of the same people he’s been using to justify his opinion :lol:
To be pedantic I rate Elite - A grade - B grade etc with examples (not including aging Pendlebury, Ablett and Selwood) and just mids.

Elite: Bont, Danger, Fyfe, Martin, Grundy (?)
A +: Zorko, Whitfield, Cripps, Neale, J Kelly, Gawn, Treloar
A grade: T. Kelly, McCrae, Yeo, Boak, Cotchin

I would have Ross just below the A grade group at B+ with Billings & Gresham not far behind.
If he keeps improving Marshall I think will be A grade at the end of next season.

Interesting question?
Is Ross better than Dylan Shiel?
We apparently offered 2 x first round picks for Shiel and a ton of cash.
You have Cripps in the A+ category. I say he is the best player in the comp!!!!


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837304Post B.M »

Barry,

If you believe EFL and A Grade Ammos is Park footy you are are clueless. Best footy outside the VFL (semi professional) in Victoria

I played with and against numerous ex or soon to be AFL players and a lot of players on up to $1000 a game (and that was 20 years ago). And I played in the TFL, WAFL and SFL in the early to mid 90s and Teal Cup.

Not exactly Park Footy

Did you ever have a kick?

I seriously doubt you ever played a game of competition footy because you haven’t got the first idea


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Re: Seb Ross

Post: # 1837305Post B.M »

Last couple of things on Seb

Coaches votes
Those mentioned are Top 10 players in comp that has 400 players running around every week. They are the very Elite!

Coaches votes are normally led by either absolute Jets or players from winning teams as they get the most votes.

I would say that Seb again being 1 vote from the highest stk vote getter and polling 35 in a team that won 9 shows his impact? Sort of consolidates my position?!

And, Nearly all replies are
IMOs and are based on perceptions of fans with little evidence of their conclusion. Other than their judgement, which lacks evidence and information.

ANY team would consider a player that gets 28 at 72% with 3 clangers and 6 clearances 9CP and 19UP as a more than good player and he would walk into any team. His actual output ranks him with most AFL Mids, just his profile does not, because we are not a power club.
If a fourth or fifth mid at any club got those numbers, bloody hell.

He is not elite, as they are consistently genuine match winners. But he is a consistently good inside mid, who gets his job done most weeks (along with Steele)

Very underrated and unappreciated

As we can see reading some of the replies on this thread!!!
Last edited by B.M on Sun 12 Jan 2020 6:35pm, edited 2 times in total.


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