Seb Ross

[The Linton Street Flash]

And you are the exact bellend that I started this thread about?

Your actually trying to convince yourself that a bloke who has performed at a high level on most measures as an AFL footballer is average - it’s moronic!

Brownlow votes mean nothing (if it suits your argument)

All Aust squads mean nothing if it suits your argument

Data means nothing if it....

Best and Fairests mean nothing if it ....

I mean, what more can a man do, other than be the best player in his team?

Maybe focus on some serial underperformers like Dunstan and Acres as to why we have been average - not crap - we won 9 games.

I am not sure why you find it so hard to rate the best player at the club over the past three seasons?!


And,
Goddard won a B&F (as well as finishing top 3 four times) in his career, and was a three time All Australian and played 300 games and was a captain
I’m pretty sure he has a few more accolades than Jarrod Witts.
On 2019 form Witts was an excellent
A massive 1000+ hit outs
14 ppg
5 clearances per game
Nothing to ordinary there?!

Please tell me again why Seb is so average because he won two B&Fs?!
Oh that’s right, they are meaningless
Yeah, righto

Rowan Marshall (and Dylan Roberton) didn’t win the B&Fs because their coaches (who know a f***load more than us about AFL footy rated Seb consistently better for the season.
Because it doesn’t suit your argument that he was the winner, you actually say he didn’t deserve it, because you know better than the coaches?!
I mean, can you hear yourself?!

Jesus mate, your arrogance is well known by all who visit this site, but with this thread, and your juvenile responses, you are completely humiliating yourself!

You came out firing a bunch of very debatable guff regarding a well liked player, yet when people enter the debate by putting forward strong counter arguments to your guff, you resort to embarrassing name calling and outrage as if they somehow strengthen your claims.

The truth is you're just a guy with an opinion, and that opinion, as precious and amazing as you obviously believe it to be, is in this instance, flimsy at best.

We know you THINK you're an incredible football brain, but the fact is, you're just a guy on the internet blowing bubbles and pissing and moaning like an idiot - self important, yes - enlightened football brain, ummm, no!

FFS give us all a break and get off your high horse, it's tiresome and it makes you look like a total twat!

[saynta]

And you are the exact bellend that I started this thread about?

Your actually trying to convince yourself that a bloke who has performed at a high level on most measures as an AFL footballer is average - it’s moronic!

Brownlow votes mean nothing (if it suits your argument)

All Aust squads mean nothing if it suits your argument

Data means nothing if it....

Best and Fairests mean nothing if it ....

I mean, what more can a man do, other than be the best player in his team?

Maybe focus on some serial underperformers like Dunstan and Acres as to why we have been average - not crap - we won 9 games.

I am not sure why you find it so hard to rate the best player at the club over the past three seasons?!


And,
Goddard won a B&F (as well as finishing top 3 four times) in his career, and was a three time All Australian and played 300 games and was a captain
I’m pretty sure he has a few more accolades than Jarrod Witts.
On 2019 form Witts was an excellent
A massive 1000+ hit outs
14 ppg
5 clearances per game
Nothing to ordinary there?!

Please tell me again why Seb is so average because he won two B&Fs?!
Oh that’s right, they are meaningless
Yeah, righto

Rowan Marshall (and Dylan Roberton) didn’t win the B&Fs because their coaches (who know a f***load more than us about AFL footy rated Seb consistently better for the season.
Because it doesn’t suit your argument that he was the winner, you actually say he didn’t deserve it, because you know better than the coaches?!
I mean, can you hear yourself?!

Jesus mate, your arrogance is well known by all who visit this site, but with this thread, and your juvenile responses, you are completely humiliating yourself!

ALL? You don't speak for me mate.

[B.M]

I just can’t stand morons who ignore facts and give s*** opinions

Still don’t see any evidence, other than subjective (uniformed) opinions as to why Seb is an ordinary player?!

At least I provide evidence, in the form of data or accolades to form the basis of my opinion

Rather than just IMO I don’t rate him

FFS the coaches rate him, yet the supporters don’t

It’s hilarious

[B.M]

And Linton Street Flash

Arrogance is those who speak themselves on others behalf

You just did that

[skeptic]

Ur referring to the coaches that preferred Hickey and Longer ahead of Marshall
Played chaser Maverick religiously for nearly a season and a half and signed McKenzie on a three year contract

Yeah I believe in everything they do without question

Steel in the ruck was the personal highlight

[Secret Kiel]

Ur referring to the coaches that preferred Hickey and Longer ahead of Marshall
Played chaser Maverick religiously for nearly a season and a half and signed McKenzie on a three year contract

Yeah I believe in everything they do without question

Steel in the ruck was the personal highlight

I think those same coaches prefered Marshall over Longer and Hickey in the end and those same coaches cut Mav from the list. They get a lot right based on those decisions wouldn't you think.

[The Linton Street Flash]

And you are the exact bellend that I started this thread about?

Your actually trying to convince yourself that a bloke who has performed at a high level on most measures as an AFL footballer is average - it’s moronic!

Brownlow votes mean nothing (if it suits your argument)

All Aust squads mean nothing if it suits your argument

Data means nothing if it....

Best and Fairests mean nothing if it ....

I mean, what more can a man do, other than be the best player in his team?

Maybe focus on some serial underperformers like Dunstan and Acres as to why we have been average - not crap - we won 9 games.

I am not sure why you find it so hard to rate the best player at the club over the past three seasons?!


And,
Goddard won a B&F (as well as finishing top 3 four times) in his career, and was a three time All Australian and played 300 games and was a captain
I’m pretty sure he has a few more accolades than Jarrod Witts.
On 2019 form Witts was an excellent
A massive 1000+ hit outs
14 ppg
5 clearances per game
Nothing to ordinary there?!

Please tell me again why Seb is so average because he won two B&Fs?!
Oh that’s right, they are meaningless
Yeah, righto

Rowan Marshall (and Dylan Roberton) didn’t win the B&Fs because their coaches (who know a f***load more than us about AFL footy rated Seb consistently better for the season.
Because it doesn’t suit your argument that he was the winner, you actually say he didn’t deserve it, because you know better than the coaches?!
I mean, can you hear yourself?!

Jesus mate, your arrogance is well known by all who visit this site, but with this thread, and your juvenile responses, you are completely humiliating yourself!

ALL? You don't speak for me mate.

Ok, ok, I'm sorry, I did forget about you Santa, but with all due respect, you're kinda forgettable... if it wasn't for chimneys and Christmas trees you'd barely cross my mind!

[Secret Kiel]

Isn't 'Bellend' an under utilised sledge in the modern era.

[CQ SAINT]

I just can’t stand morons who ignore facts and give s*** opinions

Still don’t see any evidence, other than subjective (uniformed) opinions as to why Seb is an ordinary player?!

At least I provide evidence, in the form of data or accolades to form the basis of my opinion

Rather than just IMO I don’t rate him

FFS the coaches rate him, yet the supporters don’t

It’s hilarious

I think you also said the players rate him. I dont actually think he is that highly rated. The Lenny Hayes Award usually goes to the player the players rate. In the heat of the game, easily accumulated, outside, uncontested possessions from a 188cm 88kg mid, don't usually rate that highly when your getting beaten and your forwards are getting bomb after bomb launched at them. Ross isn't the only culprit there but it's seems the coaches gave votes for that shite.

[saynta]

And you are the exact bellend that I started this thread about?

Your actually trying to convince yourself that a bloke who has performed at a high level on most measures as an AFL footballer is average - it’s moronic!

Brownlow votes mean nothing (if it suits your argument)

All Aust squads mean nothing if it suits your argument

Data means nothing if it....

Best and Fairests mean nothing if it ....

I mean, what more can a man do, other than be the best player in his team?

Maybe focus on some serial underperformers like Dunstan and Acres as to why we have been average - not crap - we won 9 games.

I am not sure why you find it so hard to rate the best player at the club over the past three seasons?!


And,
Goddard won a B&F (as well as finishing top 3 four times) in his career, and was a three time All Australian and played 300 games and was a captain
I’m pretty sure he has a few more accolades than Jarrod Witts.
On 2019 form Witts was an excellent
A massive 1000+ hit outs
14 ppg
5 clearances per game
Nothing to ordinary there?!

Please tell me again why Seb is so average because he won two B&Fs?!
Oh that’s right, they are meaningless
Yeah, righto

Rowan Marshall (and Dylan Roberton) didn’t win the B&Fs because their coaches (who know a f***load more than us about AFL footy rated Seb consistently better for the season.
Because it doesn’t suit your argument that he was the winner, you actually say he didn’t deserve it, because you know better than the coaches?!
I mean, can you hear yourself?!

Jesus mate, your arrogance is well known by all who visit this site, but with this thread, and your juvenile responses, you are completely humiliating yourself!

ALL? You don't speak for me mate.

Ok, ok, I'm sorry, I did forget about you Santa, but with all due respect, you're kinda forgettable... if it wasn't for chimneys and Christmas trees you'd barely cross my mind!

Not even slightly witty. Just shows you can't spell.

And BM was correct on the arrogant call. You will never speak for me. Talk about forgettable. That properly describes your posts.

[saynta]

I just can’t stand morons who ignore facts and give s*** opinions

Still don’t see any evidence, other than subjective (uniformed) opinions as to why Seb is an ordinary player?!

At least I provide evidence, in the form of data or accolades to form the basis of my opinion

Rather than just IMO I don’t rate him

FFS the coaches rate him, yet the supporters don’t

It’s hilarious

I think you also said the players rate him. I dont actually think he is that highly rated. The Lenny Hayes Award usually goes to the player the players rate. In the heat of the game, easily accumulated, outside, uncontested possessions from a 188cm 88kg mid, don't usually rate that highly when your getting beaten and your forwards are getting bomb after bomb launched at them. Ross isn't the only culprit there but it's seems the coaches gave votes for that shite.

Unbelievable.

[CQ SAINT]

I just can’t stand morons who ignore facts and give s*** opinions

Still don’t see any evidence, other than subjective (uniformed) opinions as to why Seb is an ordinary player?!

At least I provide evidence, in the form of data or accolades to form the basis of my opinion

Rather than just IMO I don’t rate him

FFS the coaches rate him, yet the supporters don’t

It’s hilarious

I think you also said the players rate him. I dont actually think he is that highly rated. The Lenny Hayes Award usually goes to the player the players rate. In the heat of the game, easily accumulated, outside, uncontested possessions from a 188cm 88kg mid, don't usually rate that highly when your getting beaten and your forwards are getting bomb after bomb launched at them. Ross isn't the only culprit there but it's seems the coaches gave votes for that shite.

Unbelievable.

Oh Saynta. Why so precious? You watch the games don't you. The only evidence I've seen that suggests the coaches didn't ask for the 'bombs away' technique was Rattens warning that shite skills won't be tolerated. These same clowns voted in the B&F. I've had enough of the glorifying average skilled players and leaders. Seb works his guts out, no doubt bit a super star exponent of the skills of the game he is not. if He is under pressure, it is all in his head. He is not alone there either.
Mr Ross has 17 uncontested possessions per game and even at 72% doesn't do much with them.

[saynta]

I just can’t stand morons who ignore facts and give s*** opinions

Still don’t see any evidence, other than subjective (uniformed) opinions as to why Seb is an ordinary player?!

At least I provide evidence, in the form of data or accolades to form the basis of my opinion

Rather than just IMO I don’t rate him

FFS the coaches rate him, yet the supporters don’t

It’s hilarious

I think you also said the players rate him. I dont actually think he is that highly rated. The Lenny Hayes Award usually goes to the player the players rate. In the heat of the game, easily accumulated, outside, uncontested possessions from a 188cm 88kg mid, don't usually rate that highly when your getting beaten and your forwards are getting bomb after bomb launched at them. Ross isn't the only culprit there but it's seems the coaches gave votes for that shite.

Unbelievable.

Oh Saynta. Why so precious? You watch the games don't you. The only evidence I've seen that suggests the coaches didn't ask for the 'bombs away' technique was Rattens warning that shite skills won't be tolerated. These same clowns voted in the B&F. I've had enough of the glorifying average skilled players and leaders. Seb works his guts out, no doubt bit a super star exponent of the skills of the game he is not. if He is under pressure, it is all in his head. He is not alone there either.
Mr Ross has 17 uncontested possessions per game and even at 72% doesn't do much with them.

Calling saints coaches "clowns". Says it all about you really. No need for me to comment further.

[CQ SAINT]

I just can’t stand morons who ignore facts and give s*** opinions

Still don’t see any evidence, other than subjective (uniformed) opinions as to why Seb is an ordinary player?!

At least I provide evidence, in the form of data or accolades to form the basis of my opinion

Rather than just IMO I don’t rate him

FFS the coaches rate him, yet the supporters don’t

It’s hilarious

I think you also said the players rate him. I dont actually think he is that highly rated. The Lenny Hayes Award usually goes to the player the players rate. In the heat of the game, easily accumulated, outside, uncontested possessions from a 188cm 88kg mid, don't usually rate that highly when your getting beaten and your forwards are getting bomb after bomb launched at them. Ross isn't the only culprit there but it's seems the coaches gave votes for that shite.

Unbelievable.

Oh Saynta. Why so precious? You watch the games don't you. The only evidence I've seen that suggests the coaches didn't ask for the 'bombs away' technique was Rattens warning that shite skills won't be tolerated. These same clowns voted in the B&F. I've had enough of the glorifying average skilled players and leaders. Seb works his guts out, no doubt bit a super star exponent of the skills of the game he is not. if He is under pressure, it is all in his head. He is not alone there either.
Mr Ross has 17 uncontested possessions per game and even at 72% doesn't do much with them.

Calling saints coaches "clowns". Says it all about you really. No need for me to comment further.

Darn, I will miss the one line pearls of wisdom and the emojis.

[skeptic]

I just can’t stand morons who ignore facts and give s*** opinions

Still don’t see any evidence, other than subjective (uniformed) opinions as to why Seb is an ordinary player?!

At least I provide evidence, in the form of data or accolades to form the basis of my opinion

Rather than just IMO I don’t rate him

FFS the coaches rate him, yet the supporters don’t

It’s hilarious

I think you also said the players rate him. I dont actually think he is that highly rated. The Lenny Hayes Award usually goes to the player the players rate. In the heat of the game, easily accumulated, outside, uncontested possessions from a 188cm 88kg mid, don't usually rate that highly when your getting beaten and your forwards are getting bomb after bomb launched at them. Ross isn't the only culprit there but it's seems the coaches gave votes for that shite.

Unbelievable.

Oh Saynta. Why so precious? You watch the games don't you. The only evidence I've seen that suggests the coaches didn't ask for the 'bombs away' technique was Rattens warning that shite skills won't be tolerated. These same clowns voted in the B&F. I've had enough of the glorifying average skilled players and leaders. Seb works his guts out, no doubt bit a super star exponent of the skills of the game he is not. if He is under pressure, it is all in his head. He is not alone there either.
Mr Ross has 17 uncontested possessions per game and even at 72% doesn't do much with them.

Calling saints coaches "clowns". Says it all about you really. No need for me to comment further.

Darn, I will miss the one line pearls of wisdom and the emojis.

Not as nice as calling a Saints player a girl or saying your heart sinks if particular players are selected or calling a former coach a tosser

Oh the self-righteousness

It’s actually been reasonably nice, respectful discussion minus the morally indignant BS

[Secret Kiel]

Anyway back to Sebby, I personally am looking forward to seeing how he goes this year, even more so after this discussion. As a side note it is highly possible he will be our next captain and I think he could do a good job.

[BarryGrogan]

I think Seb will find himself in the 'defensive mid' role this year.

[CQ SAINT]

I think Seb will find himself in the 'defensive mid' role this year.

Id tend to agree.

[Secret Kiel]

So if Sebby plays in defence who comes out. It's a fairly crowded waiting room as it already stands.

Geary, Webster, Savage are probably the closest like-for-like types. If you say Gears isn't going anywhere unless of coarse he unexpectedly loses the captaincy and his form drops away dramatically, then it's got to be Shane or Jimmy who get relegated to make way for Seb.

[CQ SAINT]

Defensive mid role. Not HB. Its the same thing he does but further away from goal. It frees up another player to go forward and attack after clearances. Someone like Clark or Jones who have pace, can spread and break lines to good effect.

[CQ SAINT]

Of course I'm.not sure if Seb is suited to a role which sees him float around picking up loose kicks and giving off dinky kicks and handballs to a running back or winger. Maybe he can tone his drive back a little.

[The_Dud]

I just can’t stand morons who ignore facts and give s*** opinions

Still don’t see any evidence, other than subjective (uniformed) opinions as to why Seb is an ordinary player?!

At least I provide evidence, in the form of data or accolades to form the basis of my opinion

Rather than just IMO I don’t rate him

FFS the coaches rate him, yet the supporters don’t

It’s hilarious

22 goals in 124 games. How much clearer do you need the evidence to be? A-grade mids hit the scoreboard.

Seb has 2 B&Fs, the same amount as Lockett and Winmar had at St Kilda. Goddard and Dal Santo won none at the Saintd. Witts has as many B&Fs as Ablett Sr. Pretty clear evidence B&Fs are highly subjective and not all equal.

Seb is a solid B-grade mid, who can show A-grade glimpses occasionally. The only A-grade mid we’ve had over the last few years was Steven (when not fat). The coaches know this, and is why they’ve been throwing the kitchen sink at elite mids every trade week.

[Sanctorum]

This discussion contains a lot of tedious to-ing and fro-ing which is to little avail.

As I stated early on in this thread, I am convinced that under Brett Ratten Seb Ross will break-out to elite level this year, it is simply a matter of fine tuning his decision making and disposal skills, and if that turns out to be so then he's a real show for AA selection and the Brownlow. To suggest that Seb Ross is a dud player and unworthy of the B&F awards is an insult to the coaching panel, love 'em or hate 'em, they are in possession of all the facts and stats and know best, irrespective of what we armchair experts may think...

[saynta]

This discussion contains a lot of tedious to-ing and fro-ing which is to little avail.

As I stated early on in this thread, I am convinced that under Brett Ratten Seb Ross will break-out to elite level this year, it is simply a matter of fine tuning his decision making and disposal skills, and if that turns out to be so then he's a real show for AA selection and the Brownlow. To suggest that Seb Ross is a dud player and unworthy of the B&F awards is an insult to the coaching panel, love 'em or hate 'em, they are in possession of all the facts and stats and know best, irrespective of what we armchair experts may think...

Ah, a sensible post at long last.

[CQ SAINT]

The proposition that Ross has been described as a dud is a false one. There is also no doubt that the coaches believe he was a worthy winner of their votes. I can't believe he polled more votes than Marshall and that some rate him as AA standard and with A grade output.
Is is accepted that there is 6 genuine mids in each team. That equals 108. Statistically Seb doesn't rate in the top 20% of those mids in most of the games recorded statistics. He is a good B grader. Its really a simple concept. Loyalty, opinion and team based accolades don't come I to it.
When you dissect our wins this year, it is easy to see that it took a broad contribution from a number of players to win. To say that Seb is A grade because he was BOG in those wins is naive and infantile in its logic.
I agree, if Ross can improve his skills and decision making he might reach A grade. You summed up the arguments beautifully but I don't think we will see a resolve to the argument any time soon.