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If a C Grade mid is our number 1 midfielder, who cannot spread due to lack of pace, cannot reach stoppages or defend due to having a woeful tank and is a horrible kick is ever our best midfielder... we are indeed s***!
Right now he’s behind
Ross
Hannebury
Steele
Gresham
Jones
Clark
So he’s 7th
Which is ok
If you read my post properly I said he will keep improving IMHO until he is at his peak at 28yo. That's when he will be our best inside mid. Not now/yet.
His kicking is below average for a mid.
Possession count is below average for a full time mid.
Clearance work is very good.
Speed is below average.
Tank is average.
To be an A-Grader, he'll need to be elite in at least 3 of those areas.
To be a B-Grader he'd need to be elite in at least 1-2 of them.
I can't see how at his age he'll be able to do that.
If a C Grade mid is our number 1 midfielder, who cannot spread due to lack of pace, cannot reach stoppages or defend due to having a woeful tank and is a horrible kick is ever our best midfielder... we are indeed s***!
Right now he’s behind
Ross
Hannebury
Steele
Gresham
Jones
Clark
So he’s 7th
Which is ok
If you read my post properly I said he will keep improving IMHO until he is at his peak at 28yo. That's when he will be our best inside mid. Not now/yet.
His kicking is below average for a mid.
Possession count is below average for a full time mid.
Clearance work is very good.
Speed is below average.
Tank is average.
To be an A-Grader, he'll need to be elite in at least 3 of those areas.
To be a B-Grader he'd need to be elite in at least 1-2 of them.
I can't see how at his age he'll be able to do that.
If a midfielder is going to be any good, they are by 22/23 (unless they are skinny)
They are fully developed by then, they have played 50 games by then, they are normally physically sound due to their lack of wear and tare and they play with freedom.
Very few (if any?) are rubbish at 25 and suddenly good at 28
If they are ordinary after 6 seasons they are normally overtaken by better younger players and delisted.
Dunstan will be 25 on January 29. He is a slow burn and is steadily improving. He is an inside bull which is the hardest position in footy. He will never be a flashy player ala Gresham. In three years time he will be one of the best inside midfielders in the comp.
We are supposed to be debating about Jack Bytel not Dunstan.
Inside mid is the second easiest position on the ground in the AFL
Secondly
Wasn’t the thing with Dunstan when he was drafted that he was a man child who was ready to go season 1?
I think you have slow burn confused with slow runner
He ain’t going to all of a sudden get pace or become a good kick?!
He is a GOP
That’s about it!
He has 5 Brownlow votes in 103 games, 2 of those in his third game. He is a midfielder and it’s predominantly a midfielder award. Never been voted BOG.
Compare that to the heavily scrutinised Jack Billings who has played the majority of his career as a HF.
Jack has played 107 games got 28 Brownlow Votes with 6 BOGs.
Nick_BlueNRG wrote: ↑Tue 07 Jan 2020 11:30am
Dunstan will be 25 on January 29. He is a slow burn and is steadily improving. He is an inside bull which is the hardest position in footy. He will never be a flashy player ala Gresham. In three years time he will be one of the best inside midfielders in the comp.
We are supposed to be debating about Jack Bytel not Dunstan.
I hate to burst your bubble but Dunstan has gone backwards since his first year. The game has got faster and he simply cant match the speed. The club offerred him up for trade and NOT ONE club was interested, he will be backup only this season. IMO he is another of Trouts very poor draft selections....
Nick_BlueNRG wrote: ↑Tue 07 Jan 2020 11:30am
Dunstan will be 25 on January 29. He is a slow burn and is steadily improving. He is an inside bull which is the hardest position in footy. He will never be a flashy player ala Gresham. In three years time he will be one of the best inside midfielders in the comp.
We are supposed to be debating about Jack Bytel not Dunstan.
I hate to burst your bubble but Dunstan has gone backwards since his first year. The game has got faster and he simply cant match the speed. The club offerred him up for trade and NOT ONE club was interested, he will be backup only this season. IMO he is another of Trouts very poor draft selections....
Inside mid is the second easiest position on the ground in the AFL
Secondly
Wasn’t the thing with Dunstan when he was drafted that he was a man child who was ready to go season 1?
I think you have slow burn confused with slow runner
He ain’t going to all of a sudden get pace or become a good kick?!
He is a GOP
That’s about it!
He has 5 Brownlow votes in 103 games, 2 of those in his third game. He is a midfielder and it’s predominantly a midfielder award. Never been voted BOG.
Compare that to the heavily scrutinised Jack Billings who has played the majority of his career as a HF.
Jack has played 107 games got 28 Brownlow Votes with 6 BOGs.
What deluded planet do you live on thinking that the inside mid role is the second easiest position to play. If you are a battering ram then I would agree but players are not battering rams. They are actually human.
I know it’s an easy position to play. You run around the ground getting possessions and go to every stoppage and win clearances. There is not a position on the ground where you can win more possessions. If you have a half decent ruckman you should win 6-8 clearances per game, if you have a tank, some speed and have a dip you should win 20-30 possessions per game, if you have a reasonable defensive mindset you’ll also have about 4-6 tackles.
Secret Kiel wrote: ↑Sat 28 Dec 2019 11:31pm
The thing about Dunstan is he'll jump on a hand grenade for the team and to win a contest.
I don't want a guy that will jump on a hand grenade. I want a guy that will pick up a hand grenade with one hand and drop it on his wrong foot and slot a 40m goal in the last 3 minutes of a quarter.
B.M wrote: ↑Tue 07 Jan 2020 11:20pm
I know it’s an easy position to play. You run around the ground getting possessions and go to every stoppage and win clearances. There is not a position on the ground where you can win more possessions. If you have a half decent ruckman you should win 6-8 clearances per game, if you have a tank, some speed and have a dip you should win 20-30 possessions per game, if you have a reasonable defensive mindset you’ll also have about 4-6 tackles.
FFS
Have you ever had a kick?
Have a guess what is the easiest position?
Also try to guess the hardest positions
That is the role Seb Ross plays not Dunstan.
Dunstan plays the blocker at clearances. His role is to prevent space for the opposition target and create space for our target. He is then charged with responsibility of pressure if they win it and if the ball falls out way to release the ball to the outside to a player not under pressure. I have never really seen him play the tap target or release target roles. They are the players that get the armchair ride to bonus stats with first opportunity for hands in ball at clearances. His other role is to win contested ball around the ground so my only criticism in some games is he doesn’t always work back quick enough to impact defensive contests. Some games his work rate is better than others. However when he does get to contests he is impressive especially in big moments. If played every moment like he does the big moments then he would be a star. But at least he plays the big moments well.
AwayInUSA no longer ... have based myself back in Melbourne for a decade of Saintsational Success (with regular trips back to the USA)
Kind of feel like what ur saying is kind of a perpetuation of a bizarre way of thinking that has crept into the game over the last decade or so which is to describe intangibles, use stats (speaking more broadly on that point) to justify a view that is just not evident.
I’ve heard this type of argument so many times in the last decade
Billy Longer... limited disposals, no tackles or mark, no obvious influence but he blocks and creates space and protects midfielders
Mav Weller... stopped kicking goals or getting kicks... but chased, pressured and harassed
Eddy and McQualter... they guarded space
Football is a game and it’s really not that hard... at the end of the day the majority of fans should be able to sit down, watch it and have a reasonable idea and consensus on who played well and who didn’t
You don’t need an abundance of stats or analysis to see that
I think when you’re introducing arguments like he does his role or his effectiveness isn’t measured in stats or direct impact...
Personally I think it’s a foolish way of thinking.
I like Dunstan and have generally been a supporter... but the reality is that unless he’s a tagger which he isn’t, you cannot have a midfielder that doesn’t either win enough ball or be especially damaging when he does get it.
Fact is that unless he improves dramatically... we need someone to force him out
Dunstan just doesn't seem to have the tank that the elite players possess, which is a shame, as I think this is the thing that's stopping him reaching his full potential. It took Seb Ross a few years to build that tank, but Dunstan, well, it's hard to know if he can get better in that respect . It's hard to see him playing four dominant quarters in any game. Typically, he'll have a big quarter followed by a very quiet one. He's already played 100 games, so I'd be surprised if his performances took a huge leap from here. I'd love to be wrong.
Luke's stats and performance as a midfielder in 2019 is comparable to some of top stats and peformances of the top midelfieders in the comp. He actually went ok for large chunks of the year
The stats coaches are interested in for midfileders in the modern game are about measuring what happens after the midfielder dispatches the pill. And that's not necessarily looking at the very narrow definition of an effective disposal. The midfiled coach wants to know how many meters were gained or where the ball was received in terms of set plays and game plan. Sometimes that might be achieved by the midfielder off loading to another player to achieve success in a desired set play. That might be a stat to the midfielder deemed as an assist, so assisted meters gained as an example.
You could be a midfielder with really good herald sun stats such as high disposal count or effective disposals but in the coaches eyes you might have had a poor game because you didn't ontribute to successful set plays.
Winning the ball is pretty easy to do for AFL grade midfileders, successful execution is what most struggle with.
The comparison between Dunstan and Mitchell is utterly bizarre.
Sam is pbly the perfect example of a player that had limited attributes and did all the things that Luke is praised for whilst also demonstrating elite qualities.
You actually couldn’t have picked a better player to highlight Luke’s deficiencies.
Look no ones arguing that Dunstan doesn’t have good games or shouldn’t be on the list for now but you can’t reasonably suggest that at this stage of his career, he hasn’t stalled in his development.
Dunstan is a fringe player and has failed to take his game to the next level...
No ifs buts or maybes.
As a midfielder he starts 2020 behind Ross, Steel, Hannebery (if he gets on the park), Hill, Jones, Clarke, Billings & Gresh to name a few.
Avg 12 kicks, 11 handballs and kicked 4 goals in 2019
These are the names of my three pet potbellied pigs.
Two of them are twins so I gave them the same name. I am not confused but they are.
Cute! Reminds me of a story I once heard about a single mother of 8 boys who went to Centrelink to have her family benefit reviewed.
The Centrelink guy asked "What is the oldest boy's name?" She replied "Wayne".
"And the second oldest?" "Wayne" she replied.
"Hang on, you said the oldest boy was Wayne!" "All eight of them are named Wayne, it's easier. If they're playing in the back yard a tea is ready I just stand at the back door and scream WAYNE! Then they all come."
The Centrelink bloke shook his head in disbelief, then asked "But, what if you only want one of them?"
"That's easy too" she said. "I just tell out his father's surname!"
