We can't accept 3-5 after Round 8...so...

[shanegrambeau]

Convince ourselves that a picture like,

Wins
Adelaide,
Carlton,
Melbourne?

Losses
North
West Coast
Richmond
Geelong
And the other hard one...

Is somehow unlikely because.....

[B.M]

More likely to beat North than Carlton

No game is a win or a loss at this stage imo

We could win a lot of those games or lose all of them

[Secret Kiel]

7 of our first 8 games are at Docklands.

Our only away game is down at Geelong and we gave them something to think about under the old coach with a lesser quality list.

If we are 4 and 4 then we've got something to build on and finals are still a chance.

[desertsaint]

2 wins would be very disappointing, 3 would be par, 4 would be a very good start and set us up for a competitive season.

[Harves Man]

2 wins would be very disappointing, 3 would be par, 4 would be a very good start and set us up for a competitive season.

New coach, new team line-up and new attitudes on field as a team. 5 wins.

[kosifantutti]

Why is round 8 so important? I’ll worry about it after round 7.

[desertsaint]

2 wins would be very disappointing, 3 would be par, 4 would be a very good start and set us up for a competitive season.

New coach, new team line-up and new attitudes on field as a team. 5 wins.

we get five wins and this place would be at it's happist since the thrashing of richmond. hopefully we'll carry on from there!

[B.M]

We lose three in a row and things will turn to s***

Last time we loaded up with recruits

Gehrig, Hamill, Lawrence, Capuano, Black, Powell and Callaghan

New Coach
Blight

Number 1 and 2 Draft Picks
Roo and Kosi

And we finished 2nd last!

Only good thing out of that season, we got 6 picks (2, 5, 13, 21, 37, 49) in the superdraft of 2001

[samuraisaint]

Convince ourselves that a picture like,

Wins
Adelaide,
Carlton,
Melbourne?

Losses
North
West Coast
Richmond
Geelong
And the other hard one...

Is somehow unlikely because.....

Won't beat Adelaide - no way. Will be an absolute shellacking. Their skills compared to ours are absolute quantum miles in front.

[asiu]

we won the first of that season (blighty)

[shanegrambeau]

Convince ourselves that a picture like,

Wins
Adelaide,
Carlton,
Melbourne?

Losses
North
West Coast
Richmond
Geelong
And the other hard one...

Is somehow unlikely because.....

Won't beat Adelaide - no way. Will be an absolute shellacking. Their skills compared to ours are absolute quantum miles in front.

Won’t beat Adelaide. Gee...tell me folks. Is Adelaide not just about everyone’s second most hated team? Always Top Four on the hated list for me.

I tend to think that historically, barring catastrophic injuries in Round seven after a series of wins, Round 8 is about the time, our mindset starts to form, to solidify. Of course, it can all change, but I think the endurance of the optimistic fan has its limits. Then too, we see coaches assess the game plan and have made changes. For example, we will have seen if Carlisle will be tried up forward by then, and again, barring injuries of course. (If say, in round fifteen, we have no forward line due to injury, of course Carlisle might be down there. )

Does anyone see Melbourne bouncing back? I am wary of Carlton too of course, as they, with their new stand-in coach, beat us late season against us, with our new one.

Damn it, I want to imagine good results! Come on Sainters!,,

[samuraisaint]

Convince ourselves that a picture like,

Wins
Adelaide,
Carlton,
Melbourne?

Losses
North
West Coast
Richmond
Geelong
And the other hard one...

Is somehow unlikely because.....

Won't beat Adelaide - no way. Will be an absolute shellacking. Their skills compared to ours are absolute quantum miles in front.

Won’t beat Adelaide. Gee...tell me folks. Is Adelaide not just about everyone’s second most hated team? Always Top Four on the hated list for me.

I tend to think that historically, barring catastrophic injuries in Round seven after a series of wins, Round 8 is about the time, our mindset starts to form, to solidify. Of course, it can all change, but I think the endurance of the optimistic fan has its limits. Then too, we see coaches assess the game plan and have made changes. For example, we will have seen if Carlisle will be tried up forward by then, and again, barring injuries of course. (If say, in round fifteen, we have no forward line due to injury, of course Carlisle might be down there. )

Does anyone see Melbourne bouncing back? I am wary of Carlton too of course, as they, with their new stand-in coach, beat us late season against us, with our new one.

Damn it, I want to imagine good results! Come on Sainters!,,

I've been barracking for the Saints since Jeans was the coach and one thing I have learned is - St Kilda tend to play to the script. Our best chance to beat the Crows for years was this season and they beat us effortlessly. They are still miles ahead of us in every way - as are the Swans on exposed form in the final round of the season.
Sure we can beat the 'Dogs, Melbourne, Fremantle over here, and Carlton most of the time too, because we usually do, but can we beat Port in a highly publicised match important for our profile in front of potential new sponsors in front of a new market? Not on your nelly! Hell, we couldn't even beat the wooden spoon Lions or Carlton in Wellington, New Zealand! LOL!
I can tell when we are going to have a successful year by our intent in matches we never usually win, such as against Sydney in Sydney or Geelong at Geelong. Most years we fail to turn up prepared for those matches, or meekly surrender in them, and based on exposed form and a turnover of players and coaching staff (which I wholeheartedly support BTW), I cannot predict us turning all that around in 2020.
One silver lining in all this is that thankfully we shouldn't have to play matches in China for too much longer either, due to the AFL's embarrassment of our failure to turn up and provide any opposition whatsoever.

[Nick_BlueNRG]

Convince ourselves that a picture like,

Wins
Adelaide,
Carlton,
Melbourne?

Losses
North
West Coast
Richmond
Geelong
And the other hard one...

Is somehow unlikely because.....

Won't beat Adelaide - no way. Will be an absolute shellacking. Their skills compared to ours are absolute quantum miles in front.

Won’t beat Adelaide. Gee...tell me folks. Is Adelaide not just about everyone’s second most hated team? Always Top Four on the hated list for me.

I tend to think that historically, barring catastrophic injuries in Round seven after a series of wins, Round 8 is about the time, our mindset starts to form, to solidify. Of course, it can all change, but I think the endurance of the optimistic fan has its limits. Then too, we see coaches assess the game plan and have made changes. For example, we will have seen if Carlisle will be tried up forward by then, and again, barring injuries of course. (If say, in round fifteen, we have no forward line due to injury, of course Carlisle might be down there. )

Does anyone see Melbourne bouncing back? I am wary of Carlton too of course, as they, with their new stand-in coach, beat us late season against us, with our new one.

Damn it, I want to imagine good results! Come on Sainters!,,

I've been barracking for the Saints since Jeans was the coach and one thing I have learned is - St Kilda tend to play to the script. Our best chance to beat the Crows for years was this season and they beat us effortlessly. They are still miles ahead of us in every way - as are the Swans on exposed form in the final round of the season.
Sure we can beat the 'Dogs, Melbourne, Fremantle over here, and Carlton most of the time too, because we usually do, but can we beat Port in a highly publicised match important for our profile in front of potential new sponsors in front of a new market? Not on your nelly! Hell, we couldn't even beat the wooden spoon Lions or Carlton in Wellington, New Zealand! LOL!
I can tell when we are going to have a successful year by our intent in matches we never usually win, such as against Sydney in Sydney or Geelong at Geelong. Most years we fail to turn up prepared for those matches, or meekly surrender in them, and based on exposed form and a turnover of players and coaching staff (which I wholeheartedly support BTW), I cannot predict us turning all that around in 2020.
One silver lining in all this is that thankfully we shouldn't have to play matches in China for too much longer either, due to the AFL's embarrassment of our failure to turn up and provide any opposition whatsoever.

You lol'ed at playing games in NZ and you also said thankfully we won't play in China for long either.

It always amazes me that even though we all have 2 eyes we all see things completely differently.

Let me ask you a question samuraisaint. If we don't play games in NZ and or China, how do you propose to pay off our huge debt?

[B.M]

By winning

Improving our membership base by moving non member supporters to full paying members and getting new supporters by winning

Winning solves everything in footy

Ask Benny Gale

[Nick_BlueNRG]

By winning

Improving our membership base by moving non member supporters to full paying members and getting new supporters by winning

Winning solves everything in footy

Ask Benny Gale

That's a cop out. We are always trying to improve "our membership base by moving non member supporters to full paying members and getting new supporters by winning". It goes without saying. All 18 clubs do that every year. No......Please tell me how we are going to pay off our huge debt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hawthorn are a classic example. We were fools and ran away from Tassie. Hawthorn have made more than $20Mill out of Tassie. Actually, it is probably closer to $40Mill rather than $20Mill.

[The Barometer]

Convince ourselves that a picture like,

Wins
Adelaide,
Carlton,
Melbourne?

Losses
North
West Coast
Richmond
Geelong
And the other hard one...

Is somehow unlikely because.....

Given the home v away draw probably right. Reckon we should be backing ourselves to win those 3. north I feel we might struggle given its first up, so need to somehow pinch one of the others.

[shanegrambeau]

Convince ourselves that a picture like,

Wins
Adelaide,
Carlton,
Melbourne?

Losses
North
West Coast
Richmond
Geelong
And the other hard one...

Is somehow unlikely because.....

Given the home v away draw probably right. Reckon we should be backing ourselves to win those 3. north I feel we might struggle given its first up, so need to somehow pinch one of the others.

I hope we pinch a few more. Especially North and wouldn’t beating Geelong be nice? At Geelong, with Jack Steven, not out of spite, but pride..
As secret Kiel points out, the rest are at Docklands! We had better show up!

[samuraisaint]

Convince ourselves that a picture like,

Wins
Adelaide,
Carlton,
Melbourne?

Losses
North
West Coast
Richmond
Geelong
And the other hard one...

Is somehow unlikely because.....

Won't beat Adelaide - no way. Will be an absolute shellacking. Their skills compared to ours are absolute quantum miles in front.

Won’t beat Adelaide. Gee...tell me folks. Is Adelaide not just about everyone’s second most hated team? Always Top Four on the hated list for me.

I tend to think that historically, barring catastrophic injuries in Round seven after a series of wins, Round 8 is about the time, our mindset starts to form, to solidify. Of course, it can all change, but I think the endurance of the optimistic fan has its limits. Then too, we see coaches assess the game plan and have made changes. For example, we will have seen if Carlisle will be tried up forward by then, and again, barring injuries of course. (If say, in round fifteen, we have no forward line due to injury, of course Carlisle might be down there. )

Does anyone see Melbourne bouncing back? I am wary of Carlton too of course, as they, with their new stand-in coach, beat us late season against us, with our new one.

Damn it, I want to imagine good results! Come on Sainters!,,

I've been barracking for the Saints since Jeans was the coach and one thing I have learned is - St Kilda tend to play to the script. Our best chance to beat the Crows for years was this season and they beat us effortlessly. They are still miles ahead of us in every way - as are the Swans on exposed form in the final round of the season.
Sure we can beat the 'Dogs, Melbourne, Fremantle over here, and Carlton most of the time too, because we usually do, but can we beat Port in a highly publicised match important for our profile in front of potential new sponsors in front of a new market? Not on your nelly! Hell, we couldn't even beat the wooden spoon Lions or Carlton in Wellington, New Zealand! LOL!
I can tell when we are going to have a successful year by our intent in matches we never usually win, such as against Sydney in Sydney or Geelong at Geelong. Most years we fail to turn up prepared for those matches, or meekly surrender in them, and based on exposed form and a turnover of players and coaching staff (which I wholeheartedly support BTW), I cannot predict us turning all that around in 2020.
One silver lining in all this is that thankfully we shouldn't have to play matches in China for too much longer either, due to the AFL's embarrassment of our failure to turn up and provide any opposition whatsoever.

You lol'ed at playing games in NZ and you also said thankfully we won't play in China for long either.

It always amazes me that even though we all have 2 eyes we all see things completely differently.

Let me ask you a question samuraisaint. If we don't play games in NZ and or China, how do you propose to pay off our huge debt?

No, I LOLed at our poor performances in very important matches for the club in terms of partnerships and sponsorship, not to mention exposure.
Why is it that Port are able to prepare adequately to ensure that they make their China matches a success by absolutely humiliating Gold Coast and us up there and we weren't able to at least give a yelp in NZ?

However, in answer to your question:
Sell more memberships, work harder to gain meaningful sponsorships, as well as ask our many millionaire high profile supporters for their financial support through networks. Don't just sell off our home games, that's the lazy way. How much money did we really make on that deal anyway? We sold that home game because Port don't pull crowds in Melbourne and we're struggling to engage our latent membership precisely because of games like we served up in NZ and China.

The new prez said he was focused on making winning games of footy the big priority, but everybody who supports this club knew that playing Port Adelaide, who we never ever beat anyway, in China as our home game is not going to help us achieve that goal.

I fully supported us playing matches in New Zealand for the $$$ and I am on record as having said this in this forum. I've been to Wellington and think it's a fantastic place. What I didn't like was us completely underperforming there. I mean you can say what you like about us being poor financially and form-wise at the time, and perhaps it did coincide with us dropping off, not being used to the venue, etc, but how the team can't even bother to turn up against fellow cellar-dwellers like Brisbane and Carlton showed a distinct lack of preparation.

The Carlton match, in particular, showed the difference in a team who showed up on the day (them) and one which was completely ill-prepared (us). I mean we hardly lose to either of those teams for years and yet they are able to show us up on a neutral venue they had never played at before and get up for it.

Before that, I supported us playing matches in Tasmania, as we have many supporters there and it is in an Aussie Rules heartland, and it was a time when we had an extremely strong side, but even then we were still only able to win half our games there despite playing sides we would have usually been expected to beat. The team didn't turn up often enough and often played poorly. The club realised this and pulled out.

The whole China match thing is ridiculous and playing a side we haven't beaten anywhere for eight years, and who we never play in Melbourne not only gives them, our opposition, a clear advantage over us by doing this, but we risk further damaging our brand through failure to prepare properly. The evidence was there for everybody to see this year. The club impressed absolutely nobody in that fixture and I expect worse is to come next year unless the new administration prepares properly and leave nothing to chance. That performance in China shamed our club internationally. I mean players coming down with gastro. a sick player is taken over with them on the plane, our captain who has compartment syndrome and hasn't played for ages is expected to turn up after a long international flight.

Why do you think it is that the team completely and utterly fail to prepare adequately for these matches, and it isn't just these fixtures, we also fail to turn up in the Pride Matches against Sydney which we have failed to win or draw even a single match since its inception, and the Good Friday debacle against North, a team we were a good chance to beat at the time?

To me, all of this harkens back to an even darker time in the team's history when we played a game for premiership points up in Sydney against Richmond - a side we had played well against for years up until that point, and they beat us by 26 goals and amassed 222 points themselves in the process.

[Nick_BlueNRG]

You do not abandon something just because you have performed badly. You grit your teeth, you get it right and you improve.

[samuraisaint]

You do not abandon something just because you have performed badly. You grit your teeth, you get it right and you improve.

Agreed - and that is how winning is done (as Rocky Balboa once famously opined). I can only go by previous results and exposed form, and right up until the final round of this season the club have failed to get it right and improve and that leaves a massive doubt in my mind as to why people would think that St Kilda of all clubs could make a success of selling home matches against an opponent, who have now become our new hoodoo club, to China of all places. It is only my opinion, but it is one that is very widely shared.

But at least there have been substantial, some might say even wholesale, changes so we live in hope after eight seasons.

My understanding/impression is that people around the club were unhappy with round 23 up in Sydney and that is why some key changes to personnel came about and that some surprise names were being bandied about as being available for trades. This is a massive positive.

There is responsibility upon the key position holders at the club to make sure that the team are sufficiently prepared and best-placed to be able to compete to a professional level in high exposure matches though, and in Round 23 we were still not doing that.

[B.M]

I tell you right now

We play in a GF this year, money flows in

More
Sponsors, Members, Merchandise, Gate takings, more Prime time slots in 2021, better players attracted!!!

Success breeds success

Richmond were a basket case in 2010, now they are a juggernaut.
Dusty could take a dump in the middle of Swan Street and the faithful would take a souvenir!!!

You want to eliminate debt - Win games of footy

The Aussie crowds turned on our so called disgraceful cricket culture a few years ago? Why, because we were crap and behaving badly and led poorly.

When we were on top of the world, no one gave a s*** how much we sledged and carried on.
Michael Clarke sledging Anderson, Johnson giving send offs, it was great - while we were winning

Losers are under the microscope.

Winners get away with anything.

One last example

Carlton 80s drinking culture vs Stk drinking culture
Both exactly the same... one was a winners culture and one a losers culture - go figure

[Linton Lodger]

We could have anywhere between 5-8 new players in our best 22. The 5 recruits, King, Roberton, Hannebery (hopefully for a full season) and perhaps Bytel or another bolter.

Whatever our best 22 at the beginning of the season is, it will probably be very different to last years. They will take time to gel as a unit, about a third of the season.

Given our tough first 4 games, I wouldn't consider a 3 - 5 start implausible or catastrophic.

[shanegrambeau]

They will take time to gel as a unit, about a third of the season.

North fans counting on that.

[B.M]

A lot depends on Injuries

A team like

B: Wilkie - Howard - Geary
HB: Savage - Carlisle - Webster
C: Billings - Steele - Hill
HF: Long - Membrey - Gresham
F: Lonie - King - Butler
R: Marshall - Ross - Hannebury
Int: Ryder - Clark - Jones - Dunstan
E: Sinclair - Coffield - Paton

Would be competitive with 12 teams in the AFL

Well Behind
WCE, Rich, GWS, Coll, WB

But could beat the others (or lose to them)

[BarryGrogan]

We lose three in a row and things will turn to s***

Why?

And what does that even mean?



Personally, with the turnover of players and coaches we've had, I would fully expect it to take up to two thirds of the season for things to start gelling.

Losing 3 in a row next year is highly likely. I'd say it's probable.