Do you honestly think bringing in 5 traded players was the right move?

[Nick_BlueNRG]

I want honest debate!!!!!

[Trev from the Bush]

Yes. Honest.

Debate over.

[Nick_BlueNRG]

Yes. Honest.

Debate over.

I was hoping to get everyone's honest opinion Trev.

[Nick_BlueNRG]

After we traded with GWS we had picks 12 and 18.

Pick 12 was Kysaiah Pickett

Strong, aggressive and powerful small forward/midfielder with exciting speed and natural goalsense. Special in the air, particularly one-on-one, and provides good forward pressure inside 50.Already debuted at senior level in the SANFL ad represented South Australia in the 2019 NAB AFLUnder-18 Championships averaging 13.7 averaging, three marks and 2.7 tackles. Nephew of former North Melbourne and Port Adelaide star Byron Pickett.

Pick 18 was Mitch Georgiades

Tall forward who has missed the entire season due to a quad injury but has now made a complete recovery. He showed strong promise as a bottom aged player in 2018, representing his state in all four NAB AFL Under-18 Championship matches averaging 10 disposals and four marks. He also gave a glimpse of his outstanding contested marking ability when playing for team Bartel in the 2018 NAB AFL All-Stars Futures game on Toyota AFL Grand Final day. He is a very competitive player overall who reads the game exceptionally well and uses the ball effectively by hand and foot. He is the son of former Western Bulldogs player John Georgiades, who famously kicked eight goals on debut in 1989 against Carlton.

[Sanctorum]

Crikey Nick_BlueNRG, you seem obsessed with this particular matter, get over it, it's a done deal and when i challenged you recently to come up with your own suggestions you flatly ignored me. There's no point in gong over this ad nauseam and only time will tell if the club has got this right.

I have full faith and trust in the decisions that have emanated from the St Kilda football department, there has not been a single commentator that has come out and criticised bringing in the 5 players.

As I commented to your previous posts on this topic, St Kilda's list at end of season 2019 was lacking serious talent, the team has been going nowhere for many years, and something had to be done to get the team to challenge for finals. Bringing in 5 experienced and high quality players, instead of yet more untried young draftees that will take years to develop is not gong to get the team to win games against the super teams in the comp.

[saintspremiers]

I want honest debate!!!!!

Should city pest be banned or do you all want to play with him?

Honest debate.

[Trev from the Bush]

I want honest debate!!!!!

Should city pest be banned or do you all want to play with him?

Honest debate.

I used to troll a lot.

Used to catch a lot of big trout on Lake Eucumbene using that method and it gave me a lot of pleasure.

The method of trolling used by the person in question gives me no pleasure at all. Time to put the troll on the end of a longline.

[prwilkinson]

Considering our hand before the draft, yes, absolutely! Amazing effort really. It’s up to the players now.

[cwrcyn]

Ask yourself, would one first round pick from 2019 and second and third round picks from 2019 and 2020 netted 5 players of the calibre we have traded in, who are ready to walk into the senior team next year? I think not. All but one are young enough to have many seasons with us. One is a star (there's your first round talent). Based on our recent terrible record with second round picks, I'd say what the club has done has been very smart. Byrnes could easily have gone second round, and last year we got got Bytel, a top ten talent, at pick 41.

Hill adds clear class and speed. Ryder is very important as a second ruck/forward. Jones gives us speed and aggression in the midfield, while Butler gives use speed and pressure up forward. In the opinion of Kane Cornes, Howard has AA potential. Couldn't see us drafting that lot with the picks we gave up. We may have scored one star and one B grader, based on the typical AFL haul from those picks

[magnifisaint]

I want honest debate!!!!!

Its damned if you do or damned if you don't. You will never know the answer so its pointless asking that question.
Would you be a more successful person if you went to university??

[SaintPav]

It's a hypothetical as we have no way of knowing if we would have taken those two players mentioned.

Pointless and nonsensical argument if you ask me.

[B.M]

We had to try something

Bruce out and Ryder in is a net loss as far as Key Fwd is concerned imo

But overall we have gained for the now.

We may have cost ourselves in a few years though

[Crossy66]

100%. All add what we dont have enough of. Plus no guarantees with draftees.
Plus the club was heading for oblivion if we dont start the climb up the ladder. Supporters were becoming disenfranchised.
Great off season

[fugazi]

I was very impressed this trade season.

I thought we got screwed by Geelong over Steven, and we paid overs for Hill.

But, we kept our first pick for next year, and we have good developing young high draft picks from last few years.

So I don't buy the "We have sold our future" argument.

Hill is a gun, and the other 4 are ready to go and apart from Ryder, have not reached their peak yet.

Excellent effort by the club in a very tough market place.

Big difference having Ratten as a destination coach.

[Spinner]

The players we have weren’t working...

Do you honestly think it’s not worth a try?

[skeptic]

You say you want an honest debate... well where’s your POV Nick?

Having these discussions with you including your previous accounts... you have a clear MO:
1. You don’t answer questions
2. Your mantra is consistently and frequently to trade out good players for more picks.

The problem is that picks don’t necessarily equate to good players and it has been the case a bit for use over the last few few years where we’ve blown a number of first to second round picks.

McCartin, Goddard, Acres, Dunstan to name a few higher end + a few no longer on the list.

The reality is we’ve bought in 5 players and compromised 2 drafts...
However as far as this year’s draft goes, we’ve gained Hill, Howard and Jones. That’s three 100 game players for us. In any one draft period, x3 100 gamers would be a big win.

Then there’s Ryder who is obviously a stop gap but should be good for a year or two and an upgrade on Longer, Pierce and Hickey...

Butler is anyone’s guess but pbly a miss.

If one of Bytel or the new kid whose name escapes me comes good... and we bring in just one player next season that makes it... it’s 5 good ins 2 years.

It’s a good result.


Now your turn Nick... we know your unhappy. Tell me why we’ve mortgaged our future by not bringing in 7-8 speculative picks

[SAINT-LEE]

If we get the club culture right and get winning seasons we will attract young stars ( that some other club paid to develop).
Trading in players that have 2-4 years of upside (some have more) is a gamble but no more than any draft.

Drafts alone as some type of fix all or security for the future is proven failure thinking in EVERY sport.

A good mix is needed.

We had some gambles that failed in the draft over 2012 - 2018.
But we got some gold and that gold needs gems- precut to set that ring apart.

We have to trade in gems in the modern game.

[SuperDuper]

time will tell. True that we gave up pick 6 and a range of lower order picks, but Howard and Jones have the majority of their careers ahead of them and Hill has 5 good years left in him, we hope...

Butler and Ryder were low picks and probably good value

So... looks like a good trade period yes and better than betting on a drafting strategy when teams like GC have so many better picks than us.

[skeptic]

I’ve said this but it’s also a matter of forrest from the trees

The whole point draft of picks is to bring in good players... trading picks to bring in players that are equivalent to the value of the pick makes sense. It’s the same exact thing but less risky because the player is a known quantity.

[Sanctorum]

I want honest debate!!!!!

OK Nick, you've had a lot of people respond and disagree with your views, so it's now time to put up or shut up - if you posted this topic merely as a tease to get people worked up, then stop wasting our time and bugger off!!

[skeptic]

I want honest debate!!!!!

OK Nick, you've had a lot of people respond and disagree with your views, so it's now time to put up or shut up - if you posted this topic merely as a tease to get people worked up, then stop wasting our time and bugger off!!

Don’t hold your breath

[shanegrambeau]

It feels like the post '14, Seaford gang has gotten as good as it's ever gonna get under the tutelage of a pretty honest Richo regime. It simply isn't good enough but tries hard and is now at an age/stage where maximum potential is realizable. So it makes complete good sense to try and turbocharge it while it's still got some go. It may only be a little old Holden six but is as good as it's gonna get. Why start a rebuild yet again? So I say, yep, bring it on. But boy, I am nervous about the culture. We must demand respect from these new players by our actions and they must be cool and well thought out, not punitive and reactive imo.

[Nick_BlueNRG]

I want honest debate!!!!!

OK Nick, you've had a lot of people respond and disagree with your views, so it's now time to put up or shut up - if you posted this topic merely as a tease to get people worked up, then stop wasting our time and bugger off!!

I am happy to respond Sanctorum.

The only way that we can make this work is if we improve enough so that FA's want to come to us every year. If this doesn't happen then we are doomed and in 3 years time we will be in full Re-Build mode again. I'll tell you why......

1. We completely stuffed the 2014 Draft
2. We completely traded out of the 2019 draft.
3. WE only have one decent pick in the 2020 draft.

This means that in years to come we will not have the amount of quality youth coming through that ALL THE OTHER TEAMS WILL HAVE.

Like I said above, the only way we can make this path that we have chosen work is through FA. So if we don't improve enough next year to entice at least 1 quality FA every year (at least for the next 3 years), then we are gone. Simply and purely because we will not have anywhere near the quality of youngsters that the other teams do.

[Scollop]

1. Memberships will improve. That's a given and it was probably going to improve even without the influx of the 5 traded players, but I reckon the vibe and the positivity from some extremely good media and the constant media exposure the trades created for us will really boost memberships. Let's hope we capitalise and start the year well

2. Our home game crowds will improve...especially if we start the year with some good wins

3. We'll have better revenue overall because of points 1 & 2. Sponsorship and merchandise opportunities could be a huge added benefit if the team looks likely to make finals

4. Better depth with recruiting ready made players means more competition for spots and hopefully more wins for Sandy and developing players. Winning becomes routine and a winning culture becomes expected at VFL and AFL level

5. The ultimate beneficiary will be the on field team with the club happily allocating extra funds for things like away games interstate, player welfare, footy camps overseas etc...

6.It should create a snowball effect with more players from other clubs talking to their managers about a move to St Kilda

That's the optimistic view at least

[damienc]

Yes. Honest.

Debate over.

I was hoping to get everyone's honest opinion Trev.

There is nothing to debate. The answer is yes.