Season 2020 - a repeat of 2008 - 2010??

[Sanctorum]

With the emergence of Rowan Marshall as a future gun ruckman (better than Brodie Grundy at the same age according to Champion Data stats), the recruitment of the very experienced and former Essendon and Port Power champion ruckman Paddy Ryder, and now backed up by "yet to emerge" Ryan Abbott, St Kilda is heading into season 2020 with a most impressive ruck division. This follows years where the Saints had only a couple of so-so ruckmen in Billie Longer and Tom Hickey, neither of whom developed into elite talent.

The last time St Kilda had quality rucks was in 2008 when the club brought in ageing Michael Gardiner and Steven King, which led to the club rising up the ladder and playing in successive Grand Finals in 2009 and 2010.

It looks to me like Simon Lethlean has studied the formula for the success of the club at that time and set out to implement exactly what is going to be required for the Saints to get back into premiership contention.

By that measure, we can expect the mighty Saints to play finals in 2020, and make a serious bid for a premiership in 2021 and 2022.

You read it here first....

[bobmurray]

It's good to be positive going into a new season, a lot of people are trying to turn the club around.

I'm just concerned after we get the ball out of the middle, courtesy of our new ruck set up, we won't have a forward line that
can kick a decent score and consequently the ball will rebound out of our forward line regularly.

Remains to be seen what the clubs brains trust has in mind forward of centre.

[carn_sainter]

Not really seeing the current incarnations of roo, kosi, milne, hayes, goddard, dal santo, ball, fisher to bear the comparison out

[minneapolis]

Would this do it for you?

HF Membrey Battle Hind
FF Gresham King Marshall

[B.M]

Not sure that equals

Riewoldt, Milne, Schnieder, Kosi

[8bloggs]

Maybe a little early to expect King to command a key position in 2020 but I would love to be proved wrong.
Agree that we have been weak in the ruck stocks since Gardiner and King and having at least two strong rucks makes a difference in team performance over a season.
By around round 5 or so we will know if a Marshall and Ryder combination provide us with the next big thing, or not.

[SAINT-LEE]

Would this do it for you?

HF Membrey Battle Hind
FF Gresham King Marshall

Lol!!!
Membrey is a decent mark with average goals scored
Hind has not even gotten near better than average
Gresham flashes beauty but lacks consistent play
For Christ's sake King has never the even touched the damn ball in a game.
Marshall is brilliant.

I hope they all rise to an insane level but we can not put tags of greatness on any of them yet.

[prwilkinson]

Simply just not enough A graders. Hope to be proven wrong.

[Kilda]

I admire the optimism of some supporters but really this thread is... threadbare.

Ruckmen aside, there’s simply daylight between the current crop of players and the cream of talent we had prior to those Grand Final appearances.

The forward line is a case in point. With the departure of Bruce, we lack credible firepower. Membrey aside (who ideally should be our third tall), there is no other consistent player. Crumbing forwards - we’ve had more than a few - but none has cemented their spot. King, Howard or Battle may fill key roles up forward but whether they can deliver remains to be seen.

The hype surrounding our “Fab Five” pick ups has been great for a spike in membership sales and a more buoyant mood over the ore-season. But the possible downside is that we have given away countless draft picks in the process. If the “Fab Five” do not live up to the expectations, then we might be hearing quite uncomplimentary lines that the club squandered draft picks in pursuit of the quick fix.

[samuraisaint]

Not sure that equals

Riewoldt, Milne, Schnieder, Kosi

and Fisher sometimes too.

[samuraisaint]

I admire the optimism of some supporters but really this thread is... threadbare.

Ruckmen aside, there’s simply daylight between the current crop of players and the cream of talent we had prior to those Grand Final appearances.

The forward line is a case in point. With the departure of Bruce, we lack credible firepower. Membrey aside (who ideally should be our third tall), there is no other consistent player. Crumbing forwards - we’ve had more than a few - but none has cemented their spot. King, Howard or Battle may fill key roles up forward but whether they can deliver remains to be seen.

The hype surrounding our “Fab Five” pick ups has been great for a spike in membership sales and a more buoyant mood over the ore-season. But the possible downside is that we have given away countless draft picks in the process. If the “Fab Five” do not live up to the expectations, then we might be hearing quite uncomplimentary lines that the club squandered draft picks in pursuit of the quick fix.

If coached properly and the team is developed together then there is no reason why those five won't go on to become important lynchpins in a side which can be dangerous in finals. Sometimes it is not the nuts and bolts of a team which builds success but it's the glue which binds which becomes much more important. We had better players than Fitzroy in the 80s post '82 but they played finals and we did not, and that is because they combined better as a team. Stars didn't get us a flag in the 70s (1971), or the 90s (1997), nor the noughties 2009-10), perhaps it's time to just go after and buy the players we need - hey; it's worked for Sydney.

[samuraisaint]

With the emergence of Rowan Marshall as a future gun ruckman (better than Brodie Grundy at the same age according to Champion Data stats), the recruitment of the very experienced and former Essendon and Port Power champion ruckman Paddy Ryder, and now backed up by "yet to emerge" Ryan Abbott, St Kilda is heading into season 2020 with a most impressive ruck division. This follows years where the Saints had only a couple of so-so ruckmen in Billie Longer and Tom Hickey, neither of whom developed into elite talent.

The last time St Kilda had quality rucks was in 2008 when the club brought in ageing Michael Gardiner and Steven King, which led to the club rising up the ladder and playing in successive Grand Finals in 2009 and 2010.

It looks to me like Simon Lethlean has studied the formula for the success of the club at that time and set out to implement exactly what is going to be required for the Saints to get back into premiership contention.

By that measure, we can expect the mighty Saints to play finals in 2020, and make a serious bid for a premiership in 2021 and 2022.

You read it here first....

RE: Rucks - we also had Lewis Pierce and Holmes IMO Our players like Hickey weren't developed properly and in the case of Longer weren't managed properly.

[Kilda]

There has been some astute off-field recruits (eg. Slater, Roughead) that could offer that intangible quality that you refer to SamuraiSaint.

[evertonfc]

Not even close to that period.

[Sanctorum]

I admire the optimism of some supporters but really this thread is... threadbare.

Ruckmen aside, there’s simply daylight between the current crop of players and the cream of talent we had prior to those Grand Final appearances.

The forward line is a case in point. With the departure of Bruce, we lack credible firepower. Membrey aside (who ideally should be our third tall), there is no other consistent player. Crumbing forwards - we’ve had more than a few - but none has cemented their spot. King, Howard or Battle may fill key roles up forward but whether they can deliver remains to be seen.

The hype surrounding our “Fab Five” pick ups has been great for a spike in membership sales and a more buoyant mood over the ore-season. But the possible downside is that we have given away countless draft picks in the process. If the “Fab Five” do not live up to the expectations, then we might be hearing quite uncomplimentary lines that the club squandered draft picks in pursuit of the quick fix.

If coached properly and the team is developed together then there is no reason why those five won't go on to become important lynchpins in a side which can be dangerous in finals. Sometimes it is not the nuts and bolts of a team which builds success but it's the glue which binds which becomes much more important. We had better players than Fitzroy in the 80s post '82 but they played finals and we did not, and that is because they combined better as a team. Stars didn't get us a flag in the 70s (1971), or the 90s (1997), nor the noughties 2009-10), perhaps it's time to just go after and buy the players we need - hey; it's worked for Sydney.

What everyone is ignoring is the impact upfield of Hannebery, Hill, Jones complementing emerging midfielders like Steele, Billings, Dunstan and Clark providing much better supply into the forward 50. I predict Ben Long and Matty Parker to have break-out seasons, and then there's Gresham who will really benefit when the ball is forced to the ground by the Saints tall forwards. As for forward fire power, I consider King, Marshall/Ryder, Membrey and Battle to be more than capable of kicking multiple goals.

Sure this team lacks the experience and star power that St Kilda had in 2008-2010 but I am quietly confident that with the expertise in the coaching box supporters will see a vast improvement in skill levels all across the ground.

Yes, only time will tell, but even the most sceptical supporter has to admit that the club has made some exceptionally good moves to strengthen and improve the team in so many ways in the past 12 months.

[guitars4]

There has been some astute off-field recruits (eg. Slater, Roughead) that could offer that intangible quality that you refer to SamuraiSaint.

I agree that off field decisions are nearly as important as on field decisions .It's similar to the Hawthorn model & it's worked well for them so I am hopeful that with continued off field progression will lead to on field success . It may take a while but at least it's a step in the right direction IMO anyway.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Not close to the Noughties but then again I don't think any team is.
The talent pool has been diluted across eighteen teams and the rise
of soccer as the preferred school sport.

[shanegrambeau]

Can we match this?
B: Williams, Tarrant, ??
HB: Pittard, Durdin, Atley
C: Dumont, Higgins, Polec
HF: Zurhaar, Larkey, Ziebell
F: Thomas, Brown, Garner

Foll: Goldy, Anderson, Cunnington

I/C: Simpkin, LDU, BMac, Ahern

I feel these guys will be about 10th in 2020. Are we better?

[samuraisaint]

Can we match this?
B: Williams, Tarrant, ??
HB: Pittard, Durdin, Atley
C: Dumont, Higgins, Polec
HF: Zurhaar, Larkey, Ziebell
F: Thomas, Brown, Garner

Foll: Goldy, Anderson, Cunnington

I/C: Simpkin, LDU, BMac, Ahern

I feel these guys will be about 10th in 2020. Are we better?

Based on exposed form we're not better than them at present, no. They have had our measure since 2012 and I don't necessarily see that changing - however we won't have long to wait, we play them in Round 1!

[Nick_BlueNRG]

I admire the optimism of some supporters but really this thread is... threadbare.

Ruckmen aside, there’s simply daylight between the current crop of players and the cream of talent we had prior to those Grand Final appearances.

The forward line is a case in point. With the departure of Bruce, we lack credible firepower. Membrey aside (who ideally should be our third tall), there is no other consistent player. Crumbing forwards - we’ve had more than a few - but none has cemented their spot. King, Howard or Battle may fill key roles up forward but whether they can deliver remains to be seen.

The hype surrounding our “Fab Five” pick ups has been great for a spike in membership sales and a more buoyant mood over the ore-season. But the possible downside is that we have given away countless draft picks in the process. If the “Fab Five” do not live up to the expectations, then we might be hearing quite uncomplimentary lines that the club squandered draft picks in pursuit of the quick fix.

2
If coached properly and the team is developed together then there is no reason why those five won't go on to become important lynchpins in a side which can be dangerous in finals. Sometimes it is not the nuts and bolts of a team which builds success but it's the glue which binds which becomes much more important. We had better players than Fitzroy in the 80s post '82 but they played finals and we did not, and that is because they combined better as a team. Stars didn't get us a flag in the 70s (1971), or the 90s (1997), nor the noughties 2009-10), perhaps it's time to just go after and buy the players we need - hey; it's worked for Sydney.

Last time I looked, 2010 was not part of the noughties.

[samuraisaint]

I admire the optimism of some supporters but really this thread is... threadbare.

Ruckmen aside, there’s simply daylight between the current crop of players and the cream of talent we had prior to those Grand Final appearances.

The forward line is a case in point. With the departure of Bruce, we lack credible firepower. Membrey aside (who ideally should be our third tall), there is no other consistent player. Crumbing forwards - we’ve had more than a few - but none has cemented their spot. King, Howard or Battle may fill key roles up forward but whether they can deliver remains to be seen.

The hype surrounding our “Fab Five” pick ups has been great for a spike in membership sales and a more buoyant mood over the ore-season. But the possible downside is that we have given away countless draft picks in the process. If the “Fab Five” do not live up to the expectations, then we might be hearing quite uncomplimentary lines that the club squandered draft picks in pursuit of the quick fix.

2
If coached properly and the team is developed together then there is no reason why those five won't go on to become important lynchpins in a side which can be dangerous in finals. Sometimes it is not the nuts and bolts of a team which builds success but it's the glue which binds which becomes much more important. We had better players than Fitzroy in the 80s post '82 but they played finals and we did not, and that is because they combined better as a team. Stars didn't get us a flag in the 70s (1971), or the 90s (1997), nor the noughties 2009-10), perhaps it's time to just go after and buy the players we need - hey; it's worked for Sydney.

Last time I looked, 2010 was not part of the noughties.

Depending on different sources decades do actually begin in years beginning with 1 not 0. But my point is more that the side which played in the 2010 GFs were built in the noughties - our prize recruit at the end of 2009 never actually played a single game for us.

Notwithstanding the drawn Grand Final, it was arguably harder for St Kilda to not win a Grand Final with the players we had, than to win one with the talent we had. It was actually an achievement to not salute at least once between 1997 and 2010, and that is why I think that we just have to try to buy the talent we need rather than go back to the draft - and the eight years ''rebuilding' since our last finals appearance bears this out.

[outside66]

Not really seeing the current incarnations of roo, kosi, milne, hayes, goddard, dal santo, ball, fisher to bear the comparison out

This was fun - obviously need some luck but I don't think we're too far off!

roo - King (huge call but he could explode in his first few years)

kosi - Membrey

milne - Gresh (moving back to the forward line)

hayes - Hannaz (if fit)

goddard - Hill

dal santo - Billings

ball - Steele

fisher - Robbo