Paddy to be delisted

[B.M]

I think my stance against quoting is justified

This thread is becoming unreadable because of it

Are people incapable of reading posts?

[Scollop]

I am a firm believer in fitness and agility being a major reason for athletes and sportspeople's fronting up week in and week out and of course their ability to perform at an elite level.

I was of the opinion for the first 3-4 years (after McCartin was drafted) that he didn't work hard enough. Not sure who is to blame for that, however the bloke that needs to take most of the responsibility is Paddy

We can't definitively say that ANY of his accidents or onfield incidents were due to him being out of position because perhaps he wasn't fit enough or agile enough at the time... but maybe that was part of the problem

The Saints need to learn a couple of lessons;

Don't risk a very high draft pick on a player with a few question marks on health and question marks on their ability to get super fit

Don't allow a player to cruise on the playing list and be offered extensions to their contracts when there are question marks on their durability

[diddley]

The Saints need to learn a couple of lessons;

Don't risk a very high draft pick on a player with a few question marks on health and question marks on their ability to get super fit

On that comment, if you could go back and draft Judd instead of Ball, would you? I know I would. Judd’s shoulders were a question mark at the time of drafting.
Max King (and to a lesser extent, Bytel) have divided opinion, but he is the right choice moving forward? I think he is. He had (probably still has) a massive question mark. We will be praising the genius of the selectors when he is named AA in the near future.

[Secret Kiel]

I am a firm believer in fitness and agility being a major reason for athletes and sportspeople's fronting up week in and week out and of course their ability to perform at an elite level.

I was of the opinion for the first 3-4 years (after McCartin was drafted) that he didn't work hard enough. Not sure who is to blame for that, however the bloke that needs to take most of the responsibility is Paddy

We can't definitively say that ANY of his accidents or onfield incidents were due to him being out of position because perhaps he wasn't fit enough or agile enough at the time... but maybe that was part of the problem

The Saints need to learn a couple of lessons;

Don't risk a very high draft pick on a player with a few question marks on health and question marks on their ability to get super fit

Don't allow a player to cruise on the playing list and be offered extensions to their contracts when there are question marks on their durability

LOL

Paddy was delisted because of concussion issues, all of the things you mention have nothing to do with collision injuries to the head.

[sunsaint]

LOL

Paddy was delisted because of concussion issues, all of the things you mention have nothing to do with collision injuries to the head.

so you can rule out with 100% certainty his type 1 diabetes did not inhibit him in any way to achieve the fitness levels required as a top AFL player?
Its not the kiddies league anymore

[B.M]

I can tell you 100% that he was never AFL standard fitness, whether that be due to always coming back from injuries, due to diabetes, due to laziness, due to poor diet... I don’t know

But blind Freddy could see he wasn’t a fit bloke... he looked and moved like a suburban key forward.

And before anyone says it, yes I realise that Plugger carried weight, and had no muscle definition.

However,

Plugger also played in a semi professional era, he also played in an era where there were stay at home forwards, he was also a freakish talent, he also used his massive bulk effectively, he also had elite speed off the mark, he was also a dead eye, he also was intimidating, he also dominated from the age of 18 and was a Brownlow and Coleman medalists at 21.

Paddy was NONE of those things.

[Joffa Burns]

I can tell you 100% that he was never AFL standard fitness, whether that be due to always coming back from injuries, due to diabetes, due to laziness, due to poor diet... I don’t know

But blind Freddy could see he wasn’t a fit bloke... he looked and moved like a suburban key forward.

And before anyone says it, yes I realise that Plugger carried weight, and had no muscle definition.

However,

Plugger also played in a semi professional era, he also played in an era where there were stay at home forwards, he was also a freakish talent, he also used his massive bulk effectively, he also had elite speed off the mark, he was also a dead eye, he also was intimidating, he also dominated from the age of 18 and was a Brownlow and Coleman medalists at 21.

Paddy was NONE of those things.

In addition to B.M's points...

Pluggers 191 cm was big for a KF in his era with many KF in the range of 186 - 188cm.
Paddy at 193cm was not tall for a KF in an era with plenty in the 198 - 200cm range.

Plugger was huge but he was super quick over 15 and very agile for his size and probably the best player I have ever seen.

Mentioning Plugger in the same sentence as Paddy is as ridiculous as mentioning Acres in the same thread as Stewart.

[To the top]

Lockett had health issues which periodically impacted negatively on his performances

[Secret Kiel]

LOL

Paddy was delisted because of concussion issues, all of the things you mention have nothing to do with collision injuries to the head.

so you can rule out with 100% certainty his type 1 diabetes did not inhibit him in any way to achieve the fitness levels required as a top AFL player?
Its not the kiddies league anymore

It's highly likely diabetes inhibited Paddy in someway in terms of reaching required fitness levels, however fitness levels are not what contributed towards Paddy being delisted.

Paddy was delisted because of concussion caused due to collision injuries on an AFL field. Clearly not the kiddies league and not sure why that comment was made, maybe you also confuse concussion with fitness.

[B.M]

If Lockett (who had asthma) ever got fully fit, who knows what he may have achieved?

I reckon after 87... he never got more than 70% fit... if that.

He is already arguably (with Coleman and Hudson) the best FF ever to play the game, in the best half a dozen players ever (Matthews, Carey, Ablett, Reynolds, Farmer, Stewart) and along with Harves the greatest Saint.

Basically in his prime 88-94 (Except 92) he missed almost half the games he should have played. He also missed a lot of games in 97 as a swan.

If he was in better shape
1) he wouldn’t have got injured as much
2) wouldn’t have got frustrated as much and been more disciplined
3) would have been able to finish games off better, he often faded due to fatigue
4) got more of the footy due to being able to present more.

He is a legend of the game anyway, but I have no doubt he would have kicked 180 in a season at his best, fully fit (silly as it sounds 200 if played 4 finals) and probably kicked closer to 2000 goals. If he was playing at StK in 97 fully fit with the speed of ball movement at the time in the open spaces of Waverley he would have been unstoppable.

What he didn’t have was a coach and leaders to inspire and motivate him and success to drive him. Dunstan had those things.

[B.M]

Paddy’s career obviously ended due to concussion.

His career never reached any great heights because of lack of fitness and injury... hard to say whether his lack of fitness contributed to his proneness to injury... doubt it?

Could he play? - yes, albeit not elite talent imo
Was he fit? - No, he was poor athletically
Was he unlucky with injury? - Certainly

[Secret Kiel]

Not sure why a thread about Paddy being delisted is being hijacked by discussion about fitness. It's totally irrelevant.

[B.M]

Because it is being discussed whether his lack of conditioning contributed to the reasons he was eventually delisted

[Secret Kiel]

no mention of the man crush on Cousins, double standards without a shadow of a doubt. but not my argument.

[asiu]

of course (given hindsight as well)
we should of taken the Red Herring

that was a free kick
towards Premiership #2

[B.M]

In the early to mid 2000s

Cousins was as good as it gets as a player

Club Captain
4 x Best and Fairest
Brownlow Medal
AFLPA MVP
Premiership Player
6 x All Australian

As far as trainers and hard runners go

First there was Bradley, then Harvey, then Crawford, then Cousins!

[Secret Kiel]

In the early to mid 2000s

Cousins was as good as it gets as a player

Club Captain
4 x Best and Fairest
Brownlow Medal
AFLPA MVP
Premiership Player
6 x All Australian

As far as trainers and hard runners go

First there was Bradley, then Harvey, then Crawford, then Cousins!

Was cousins drug free when he played and trained.

[freely]

Cousins' problems are with recreational drugs not performance enhancing ones.

[Secret Kiel]

Cousins' problems are with recreational drugs not performance enhancing ones.

do you know how easy it is to procure steroids and growth hormones along with speed, these three drugs are used to great effect in many gyms around the country. if recreation drugs weren't an issue they wouldn't be banned. Speed in particular can be used to great effect in micro doses for increasing energy levels to help you back up day after day in the gym.

[damienc]

No Probs, I think it's clear enough now that you confused concussion with other "medical issues"

This will be the last I will say on the matter. You are the only one confused. The other medical issues Paddy had are quite separate from his concussion issues and unrelated.

It was pretty clear in my post but you chose to misconstrue for reasons best known only to you.

It is a shame I have to be so remedial in my explanation but I am all for a greater collective understanding.

Paddy was problematic and a risky draft pick, in my view, quite apart and separate from the concussion issues which he developed after we drafted him.

If, after that explanation you are still confused, then I would seek professional help.

[The Fireman]

I feel the love here

[Secret Kiel]

No Probs, I think it's clear enough now that you confused concussion with other "medical issues"

This will be the last I will say on the matter. You are the only one confused. The other medical issues Paddy had are quite separate from his concussion issues and unrelated.

It was pretty clear in my post but you chose to misconstrue for reasons best known only to you.

It is a shame I have to be so remedial in my explanation but I am all for a greater collective understanding.

Paddy was problematic and a risky draft pick, in my view, quite apart and separate from the concussion issues which he developed after we drafted him.

If, after that explanation you are still confused, then I would seek professional help.

gotta love an incoherent rant that finishes with, "seek professional help". that is the last I will say on the matter.

[B.M]

Correct, he was a risky DP at the pick we took him. It was AR who seriously questioned the selection, but trout who reassured the football dept that he was the right pick.

The question was over his athletic profile, and whether his condition inhibited his ability to become elite standard fitness.

Trout stated it wouldn’t be a drama, because he’s on top of his diabetes

When Paddy stated in his 3rd year that he was still coming to terms with managing his diabetes, alarm bells rung. He was struggling to control his levels and high arousal levels would make him lethargic and Feel like he was drunk. He was struggling to control his weight, and get his diet right. That is in his third year, so the club never really worked out how to effectively manage him.

So the risk at draft time, was real, and ultimately it didn’t work.

[damienc]

Correct, he was a risky DP at the pick we took him. It was AR who seriously questioned the selection, but trout who reassured the football dept that he was the right pick.

The question was over his athletic profile, and whether his condition inhibited his ability to become elite standard fitness.

Trout stated it wouldn’t be a drama, because he’s on top of his diabetes

When Paddy stated in his 3rd year that he was still coming to terms with managing his diabetes, alarm bells rung. He was struggling to control his levels and high arousal levels would make him lethargic and Feel like he was drunk. He was struggling to control his weight, and get his diet right. That is in his third year, so the club never really worked out how to effectively manage him.

So the risk at draft time, was real, and ultimately it didn’t work.

Thank you. Finally someone who gets it.

[freely]

Cousins' problems are with recreational drugs not performance enhancing ones.

do you know how easy it is to procure steroids and growth hormones along with speed, these three drugs are used to great effect in many gyms around the country. if recreation drugs weren't an issue they wouldn't be banned. Speed in particular can be used to great effect in micro doses for increasing energy levels to help you back up day after day in the gym.

Yeah, I do know. I just don't think that's the issue for Cousins.